Josh Gross or Kasey Clark?

[bizmark]

Who do you think is Russell's best? Kasey or Josh and why?

[Tomcat68]

I played against Gross and have watched Kasey in several, several, games, and I would have to choose Kasey because of his toughness and ability to carry defenders. I also think Gross had a better line and QB to help him along the way.

[Midee1]

Based strictly on production it would be Gross hands down. I have watched both play many games and Gross had better vision and cutting ability. The only thing that I held against Gross was his lack of size. But athletic ability there was no question in my mind.

[RayRay]

Gross' vision was amazing and he could cut on a dime. Kasey and Josh are two totally different kinds of running backs. Kasey is a bigger stronger kid who can bull his way through tacklers or run around them. Josh was a finesse runner who had amazing vision and cutting ability. I'll take Gross though.

[FBALL]

Gross had the best combination of speed, vision, change of direction and balance that I have seen in this area. He was not very big but had suprising power. He was very good at breaking tackles. Something that was very underappreciated about him was his impact from the CB spot. He took away half of the field from the passing game and was very good at coming up in run support.

Kasey is bigger but not as fast. Very, very tough kid. Played through pain and gave everything to win. Also a tremendous hitter in the secondary from his safety spot.

Both had great football instincts. That knack for being in the right place at the right time. I'd take either in a heartbeat. In the end I would have to go with Gross though. He was two or three inches in height from being a major D1 recruit and is doing very well at Georgetown.

[bizmark]

If you look at the numbers it's definitely Gross. Personally I think it's Kasey. Kasey didn't have the quickness or vision that Josh had, but still was great in both categories and maybe not as fast but still had breakaway speed. Kasey's ability to punish defenders when he had the ball in his hands however far exceeded Josh's ability to deliver blows. I think you have to look at the system. Josh Gross was the PERFECT running back for the wing-t. He made beautiful cuts and could completely change direction on a dime. But what if Kasey would have played in a power-I? Kasey wasn't having that good of a game against Ashland this year until we went to the I. In an offense where all Kasey had to do is take the ball and just run straight I think it would have been a thing of beauty. Both of them are great running backs though and both arguably 1 and 2 all time from Russell

[Midee1]

Kasey's ability to punish defenders when he had the ball in his hands however far exceeded Josh's ability to deliver blows. Both of them are great running backs though and both arguably 1 and 2 all time from Russell

I will have to respectfully disagree with the first statement. While Kasey was larger than Josh I do not think that Kasey hit any harder than Josh Gross. I have had the privilege of watching both play numerous games and Gross could deliver a blow with the best of them.

As for the second statement. I will agree that the years that I have watched Russell play they were definitely the cream of the crop. Now years ago there may have been some good backs but I do not know about them. Maybe someone with more history could throw some information our way.

[Central Ram]

Kasey Clark IMO is hands down the best all round football player to ever play at Russell and I have watched Russell football since T.J Maynard and Scott Vallance, and Kelly Gipson played there. I still personally taking nothing away from Josh think Kasey is the best! State Championship and 2 straight 44 TD seasons!

[bizmark]

I will have to respectfully disagree with the first statement. While Kasey was larger than Josh I do not think that Kasey hit any harder than Josh Gross. I have had the privilege of watching both play numerous games and Gross could deliver a blow with the best of them.

As for the second statement. I will agree that the years that I have watched Russell play they were definitely the cream of the crop. Now years ago there may have been some good backs but I do not know about them. Maybe someone with more history could throw some information our way.

Josh did have the ability to deliver hits. But what im sayin is when josh is running the ball his first thought was to make a cut and make the defender look stupid where kaseys first thought would be to run over whoever is in front of him, whether he had to lower his shoulder or throw one of those vicious stiff arms he was known for

[Midee1]

Kasey Clark IMO is hands down the best all round football player to ever play at Russell and I have watched Russell football since T.J Maynard and Scott Vallance, and Kelly Gipson played there. I still personally taking nothing away from Josh think Kasey is the best! State Championship and 2 straight 44 TD seasons!



:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

I only laugh because I know who you are.

Are we meeting on the darkside come football season or have you gave up following them?

[DevilsWin]

I I will agree that the years that I have watched Russell play they were definitely the cream of the crop. Now years ago there may have been some good backs but I do not know about them. Maybe someone with more history could throw some information our way.

Gross played 4 years as a varsity player and got about as many touches as Kasey got as a Sophmore.

Kasey's last 2 years he was "it" as far as having a great back.

In the 80's and 90's Russell had many more backs year in and year out.
So many different kids with outstanding athletic ability kept alot of kids like Robert Brown, Jeff Frasure, Drew Ramey and others from being able to amass the kind of TD's and yardage that Kasey and Gross had.

Brown and Frasure were both just as good as Kasey when it came to running over defenders.

Ramey was just as elusive as Gross.

If Ivan had given these guys 3-4 years in Russell's starting lineup and they too would have the same kind of stats.

The only running back Russell ever had go pro was John Groves. After he played at Alabama he was a Scab Player during the NFL strike in the 80's. This guy would bury defenders. I saw him knock a defenders helmet off in the 1982 State Semifinal at Ft Thomas when I was just 10 years old. Coldest night I can ever remember at a football game.

[Central Ram]

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

I only laugh because I know who you are.

Are we meeting on the darkside come football season or have you gave up following them?
I'll be meeting on the darkside when I'm in town not at a ballgame somwhere getting ready for a Saturday tailgate Kasey Clark is still the man You know he is I saw you cheer for him for many years!:moon:

[bizmark]

I shoulda known you would have the history lesson DevilsWin, and you also managed to avoid the question at the same time

[FBALL]

I shoulda known you would have the history lesson DevilsWin, and you also managed to avoid the question at the same time

He may have avoided the question and I don't always agree with him but he is right about this. John Groves IMO is the best football player to come through Russell. Second would be Nate McPeek. Gotta give some credit to the big guys.

[DevilsWin]

In my earlier post I meant to say Gross, as a freshmen had about as many touches as Clark did, as a sophmore.

Bizmark-
I'll take Gross any day.

Fball-
Groves was great and played NFL but best ever. I don't know. You have to consider Bob Stout and John Hillman for top honors along withn Brent Muncy.

Stout and Hillman are the only players to become High School All-Americans.

Rusty Ison, Mike Jones(ran a 10.6 100yd dash)Tim Hammonds, Scott Boyd, Mike Light, Dwight Bailey, Kelly Gibson, Reno Gobson, Greg Devaney, Andy Rayburn all the way back to CB Ison. All these guys should get a nomination as well.

[bizmark]

In my earlier post I meant to say Gross, as a freshmen had about as many touches as Clark did, as a sophmore.

Bizmark-
I'll take Gross any day.

Gross played behind NOBODY. Kasey really didnt either but at least his sophmore year he had to share the backfield with Josh when he was a senior. Josh also played behind better lines.

[FBALL]

DevilsWin -

I gave consideration to all. You yourself left off some great players.

What about Jeff Carty, Roger Vanover, Sam Smith, Bryan McKenzie, TJ Maynard, John Goodyear, Ryan Watkins, Scott Light, Steve Lochow, Shane Bowan, Doug Oborne, Rodney Sherrod, Eric Day, Creth Boyd, Rheese McKenzie, Michael Gabbard, Matt Thompson, Kasey Menshouse, Josh Wills and I am sure there are many others that I am leaving out.

IMO, Groves is the best that has played at Russell.

[FBALL]

Gross played behind NOBODY. Kasey really didnt either but at least his sophmore year he had to share the backfield with Josh when he was a senior. Josh also played behind better lines.

I gotta disagree on this one. The offensive line at Russell for the past couple of years, especially the 05 team, is as good of a O-line as Russell has had. They were not big but they were strong, quick and very determined. The only other line that was better in the last decade IMO is the 02 offensive line.

[bizmark]

04 was an awesome line and 02 was a good as it could possibly get. the line that kasey ran behind this year was by far worst than any line gross ever ran behind. wills and ethan gullet were studs and brandon barnes was a really good blocker but the left side (kaseys side) was not very good.

[DevilsWin]

DevilsWin -

I gave consideration to all. You yourself left off some great players.

What about Jeff Carty, Roger Vanover, Sam Smith, Bryan McKenzie, TJ Maynard, John Goodyear, Ryan Watkins, Scott Light, Steve Lochow, Shane Bowan, Doug Oborne, Rodney Sherrod, Eric Day, Creth Boyd, Rheese McKenzie, Michael Gabbard, Matt Thompson, Kasey Menshouse, Josh Wills and I am sure there are many others that I am leaving out.

IMO, Groves is the best that has played at Russell.

There are a couple on this list that really don't belong. I'm not naming names but come on.

Just because a player starts doen't make them a "Great" player.

[DevilsWin]

04 was an awesome line and 02 was a good as it could possibly get. the line that kasey ran behind this year was by far worst than any line gross ever ran behind. wills and ethan gullet were studs and brandon barnes was a really good blocker but the left side (kaseys side) was not very good.

If Gross doesn't fumble on the 2 yd line at Belfry in 04 he scores 44 TDs before the half.

Belfry would have been down 3 scores at the half. Rather than just 1.

Coach Morris would have tightened up the Defense a little earlier and Russell's offense would have ate a ton of clock.

Russell, probably would have been heading to Louisville.

Gross, probably would have ran all over Owensboro Catholic on offense.

Gross, probably would have made an interception or 2 or more and scored a defensive TD.

Gross probably would have had 45 TDs plus. He averaged about 4 tds per game, same as Kasey.

Russell was better than the ACES in 2004 and 2005 but didn't get the chance to prove it to anybody.

But that's the breaks I guess.

Belfry had it when it counted in 2003 and 2004.

2002 was a great team too but 2004's O line was superior.

I'll break down the 2002 story another time. I'm getting cramps in my fingers.

[bizmark]

If Ivan had given these guys 3-4 years in Russell's starting lineup and they too would have the same kind of stats.

i disagree because even when players like frasure and brown got their chance they werent scoring 44 touchdowns in one year. not taking anything away from the older players because they were all great i know, but 44 tds and 2000 yds in seasons is hard to do

[PLAYBOY5]

Gross is a Great player. I think Gross is the pick IMO! Clark is a soild player as well!

[FBALL]

There are a couple on this list that really don't belong. I'm not naming names but come on.

Just because a player starts doen't make them a "Great" player.

Everyone on that list was at least All Area or All Conference(Tri State Athletic Conference or Ohio Kentucky Athletic Conference) .


You are correct though. Everybody that was on that list did not need to be brought into this discussion. Much the same as your list in post 15. They were listed too prove the point that there are only a few individuals to be considered.

[DevilsWin]

i disagree because even when players like frasure and brown got their chance they werent scoring 44 touchdowns in one year. not taking anything away from the older players because they were all great i know, but 44 tds and 2000 yds in seasons is hard to do

No back in the history of Russell football got as many carries per game as Gross or Clark.

Not even close.

[bizmark]

No back in the history of Russell football got as many carries per game as Gross or Clark.

Not even close.

i dont understand what u said right there but the two greates individual seasons by a back in russell history are

1. 2004 - Gross - 2,302 yds. 43 tds

2. 2006 - Clark - 1,610 yds 44 tds

[DevilsWin]

Here are the big 5 and their final stats:

Gross- 745 carries 5799yds 2001-2004 / 7.7 avg percarry/catch
Clark - 551 carries 4397 yds 2003-2006/ 7.9 avg
Frasure- 326 carries 2732 yds 1992-1994/ 8.3 avg
Brown- 252 carries 2374 yds 1991-1993/ 9.4 avg only 1 reception
Groves- 435 carries 2292 yds 1979-1981/ 5.2 avg no receptions

[bizmark]

well i know nothing about john groves and im not going to pretend like i do, but how is he considered the greatest if robert brown and jeff frasure both had more yards thatn groves on way, way less carries

[bizmark]

tim hammond finished up his career 2,310 total yards with a 6.0 per carry average. so what im gettin at, fball, i dont think john groves was the best football player ever to come threw russell. pepper redden played dislocated his shoulder in the 2nd game of his senior year in '79. he played the rest of that season, playing center and nose guard, running to the side line every other play to have coach mcglone pop his shoulder back in place. they made him sit out one game that year the week after his injury and that game happened to be a district game against belfry that russell lost 6-0 and it kept them out of the playoffs. back them u lost 1 district game u didnt go to the playoffs. maybe he has an arguement for greatest of all time. he was an all-stater and started nose guard on the 1978 aaa state championship team

[FBALL]

well i know nothing about john groves and im not going to pretend like i do, but how is he considered the greatest if robert brown and jeff frasure both had more yards thatn groves on way, way less carries

Stats are misleading. Russell in the 80s was playing AAA and also playing Ironton and some of the bigger WV schools every year. The strenght of schedule then was way tougher than it has been in recent years. Thats not a knock on Clark or Gross. They would have been successful against school of any size. But playing larger schools every week and also playing FB would tend to keep the stats down.

Groves was a manchild. I never said he was the best running back, but the best football player ever from Russell. He was the hardest hitter I ever saw in a high school game. A tremendous LB. He had size, speed and strength. The guy was a monster.

[FBALL]

tim hammond finished up his career 2,310 total yards with a 6.0 per carry average. so what im gettin at, fball, i dont think john groves was the best football player ever to come threw russell. pepper redden played dislocated his shoulder in the 2nd game of his senior year in '79. he played the rest of that season, playing center and nose guard, running to the side line every other play to have coach mcglone pop his shoulder back in place. they made him sit out one game that year the week after his injury and that game happened to be a district game against belfry that russell lost 6-0 and it kept them out of the playoffs. back them u lost 1 district game u didnt go to the playoffs. maybe he has an arguement for greatest of all time. he was an all-stater and started nose guard on the 1978 aaa state championship team

Maybe. Hammond was great as well. One mean dude. His running style was comparable to Clark.

[bizmark]

did you ever see Pepper Redden play fball? ive heard from alot of people he was a pretty **** nasty lineman

[DEVILOLOGIST]

It goed to show that the SYSTEM makes the back..... If you are the feature back in the SYSTEM you are the cream of the crop. Now to pick between the 2-Josh or Kasey,,,,,,????????? Aint no way in **** Iam picking this one-- 2 different kids, 2 different styles, both great kids, both great potential, DRAWBACK for each kid is that they played in Eastern Kentucky.......
Good luck To Josh at Georgetown College and Kasey where ever he goes....
You both were great to watch, and the next feature back is coming,, just wait....you will hear the air part and the dirt fly, that is if you can see clearly after he rocks your world......

[FBALL]

did you ever see Pepper Redden play fball? ive heard from alot of people he was a pretty **** nasty lineman

Yep. Russell had a bunch of tough lineman during that era.The late 70s and 80s produced some VERY good teams.


I was very young then though. Maybe that is why Groves and Redden and Muncy and Tooley and all of those guys were so impressive to me.

[FBALL]

Yep. Russell had a bunch of tough lineman during that era.The late 70s and 80s produced some VERY good teams.

I was very young then though. Maybe thats why Groves and Redden and Muncy and Tooley and all of those guys were so impressive to me.

[Advance Eagles]

This is a great thread. I hope we can all remain civil to each other and really hash this one out. How about we go for the record for longest thread ever by switching the subject a little and debate the best backs of all time at RHS. We Are Russell!!!!2007 all the way to state baby! Time to reclaim the AAA Crown!

[bizmark]

This is a great thread. I hope we can all remain civil to each other and really hash this one out. How about we go for the record for longest thread ever by switching the subject a little and debate the best backs of all time at RHS. We Are Russell!!!!2007 all the way to state baby! Time to reclaim the AAA Crown!

thats pretty much what weve been talkin about big guy

[Ref Devil]

I wish this thread was never started. They're like comparing apples and oranges. Josh was better at some things and Kasey is better at other. They are good friends and all this thread will do is get fans from the same school debating about 2 of the best backs to come from Russell.

[bizmark]

I wish this thread was never started. They're like comparing apples and oranges. Josh was better at some things and Kasey is better at other. They are good friends and all this thread will do is get fans from the same school debating about 2 of the best backs to come from Russell.

this thread aint doing anything like that. they are good friends and they also both think that they are the best to ever come through russell. its prettty sad if you think that you cant even casually talk about whos the best. come on ref devil who really cares they're both gone now and it dont matter. and comparing apples and ornages would be like comparing a running back to a guard, not a running back to another running back.

[Ref Devil]

this thread aint doing anything like that. they are good friends and they also both think that they are the best to ever come through russell. its prettty sad if you think that you cant even casually talk about whos the best. come on ref devil who really cares they're both gone now and it dont matter. and comparing apples and ornages would be like comparing a running back to a guard, not a running back to another running back.

What's with the hostility?

[bizmark]

What's with the hostility?

no hostility. i just dont see the problem with the thread

[Ref Devil]

no hostility. i just dont see the problem with the thread

I think comparing Kasey and Josh IS like comparing apples and oranges. They were both running backs who could do different things. Kasey was more of a power back and Josh more of a finesse back. They were just two different types of backs that both excelled. Kasey had speed but Josh had more, Josh had power but Kasey had more. You will find that most of these "compare" thread turn into a heated debate and I just didn't want to see the Russell faithful debate over two of their best. Plus, I've been having to tell people just how good Kasey is for the past week or so and I just didn't want to have to do it again. JMO

[bizmark]

well anybody who puts something on this thread know how good kasey is

[devilsstar]

I will have to choose Gross, sorry Kasey. But Gross, constantly ran for big gains, he pounded it out if he had to also, not every run was finese, but he had vision better then i've ever seen for someone at his level, easily i think if gross maybe had about 2 more inches he could have went D1, he could've done great things, and yes he ran behind great lines, but so did Kasey or he couldn't have done what he did, so overall Gross by just a few points in my book

[orisonspi]

Let me preface this by saying that Kasey Clark was an amazing football player, a proven winner, a clutch performer, and a natural leader.

BUT, I personally thought that Josh Gross was on a complete seperate level than Clark.

When Belfry defeated Russell they had arguably the best backfield in the state of Kentucky with Jones, Howard, and Childress. That game Gross single handidly kept the Devils in the game and proved he was on the same level as either Belfry RB, and arguably maybe even as good if not better.

I fell if you put Gross on the past two Russell teams in place of Clark, the Devils enjoy the same success and maybe even have two rings instead of one.

[RayRay]

^ I wholeheartedly agree.

[BoondockSaint]

Gross on offense, Clark on defense.


Both were great high school football players.

[Godspeed]

Wow. Looks like Russell has produced some great RB's. Did most of them go to college. Where did they end up?

[DevilsWin]

Wow. Looks like Russell has produced some great RB's. Did most of them go to college. Where did they end up?

Brown- Morehead State
Frasure- Morehead State
Groves- Alabama
Gross- Georgetown
Clark- Still waiting to see where he'll go

[bizmark]

I fell if you put Gross on the past two Russell teams in place of Clark, the Devils enjoy the same success and maybe even have two rings instead of one.

Dude you couldnt have watched the state game this year. Kasey played great and his performance had nothing to do with whether or not we lost. I promise that Gross couldnt have played any better than Kasey.

[midback8]

Clark

[jgrubby]

Yep. Russell had a bunch of tough lineman during that era.The late 70s and 80s produced some VERY good teams.


I was very young then though. Maybe that is why Groves and Redden and Muncy and Tooley and all of those guys were so impressive to me.


Don't forget about #25 Rusty Ison, #17 Mike Couchout in the back field during the 80's. On the line were #65Todd Ward, Rick Roark, Mike Price. Gary Mcpeek. Nate Mcpeek.

[Ref Devil]

Dude you couldnt have watched the state game this year. Kasey played great and his performance had nothing to do with whether or not we lost. I promise that Gross couldnt have played any better than Kasey.

Agreed!! Well Said.

[Idoc]

Dude you couldnt have watched the state game this year. Kasey played great and his performance had nothing to do with whether or not we lost. I promise that Gross couldnt have played any better than Kasey.

I will not answer this question for various reasons. I do think this thread is a tribute to the great careers of both players on the football field and good times they gave to the RHS community.

I would like to point out that Gross has been labeled a finesse runner, but I would disagree. He usually ran around opposing players because he could given his vision, quickness, and speed. If you run over a defensive player, it will slow you down most of the time. If you can run by a defensive player, you have a better chance to outrun everyone else on your way to the endzone. I will not say Gross was any stronger than Clark, but I seriously doubt he was not as strong. They played different positions on defense, so it is hard to compare their hitting on defense. I would say they both loved to hit and were very good at it on both sides of the ball. Clark's defensive position gave him more oppurtnities to make hits and Gross' ability to make tacklers miss did not show off his power. I would classify both players as great hitters. The Tenn. all-stars found out 2 years ago and I expect they will again this summer.

Lastly, Bizmark- Do not make promises that you cannot keep.

[bizmark]

Lastly, Bizmark- Do not make promises that you cannot keep.

i can keep that promise. kasey played great in the state game and id love for you to try and prove me otherwise because you cant. show me where kasey cost us that game and ill belive you, but you cant do it.

[Tomcat68]

i can keep that promise. kasey played great in the state game and id love for you to try and prove me otherwise because you cant. show me where kasey cost us that game and ill belive you, but you cant do it.

I don't typically agree with you, but I can't deny that. Kasey played a great game at state BOTH years. There was nothing I've seen or heard that would suggets Kasey was a "reliability" that cost Russell the game.

[Midee1]

i can keep that promise. kasey played great in the state game and id love for you to try and prove me otherwise because you cant. show me where kasey cost us that game and ill belive you, but you cant do it.


No one said Kasey cost anyone the game. Kasey had two great state championship games. But I will guarantee that if Gross would have made it to the big show he would have played on the level of Kasey if not better. Put Kasey's size on Josh and he would have been able to play anywhere.

Sorry but I have watched both play their entire high school careers. Kasey was a great ball player but Gross was at a level that you will rarely see ever come thru a school.

[bizmark]

they were both very, very great players, but ill take kasey

[Midee1]

they were both very, very great players, but ill take kasey

I will agree that they are both GREAT players and that is the beauty of an opinion based forum. You'll take Kasey and I'll take Josh.

[Idoc]

i can keep that promise. kasey played great in the state game and id love for you to try and prove me otherwise because you cant. show me where kasey cost us that game and ill belive you, but you cant do it.

Bizmark, chill out. I never said Kasey cost us the game!!!! Where in the world did you get that from my post. We win and lose as a team. Kasey had two terrific State Championship games that all RHS fans can be proud of.
Your promise was that Gross could not do any better and I think that statement is hard to back up one way or another.

[DevilsWin]

You know I've thought about this alot and here's what I've decided.

You can't compare these 2 on an 11man team.

I mean what are we picking for a game of sandlot where it's 2 on 2?

So I say here's my ultimate backfield at Russell for the McGlone Era.

Clark- Running Back
Frasure-Running Back
Gross- Wing back

[FBALL]

If I had to choose one player to give the ball too it would be Gross. He was the best ball carrier I have seen at Russell.

To choose a All Russell backfield for the McGlone era.
RB Gross
RB Clark
FB Groves
QB Muncy

[bizmark]

Bizmark, chill out. I never said Kasey cost us the game!!!! Where in the world did you get that from my post. We win and lose as a team. Kasey had two terrific State Championship games that all RHS fans can be proud of.
Your promise was that Gross could not do any better and I think that statement is hard to back up one way or another.

your right. i dont think josh could have played better.

[BBB]

I know it is opinions but if anyone puts ray clark in an all-time russell backfield I would just have ask what your smoking. There were games he didn't wnat anything to do with contact.

To the question of Gross or Kasey? Both had something special can't really compare them. If you want all i would add to the conversation is 2-AA State Championship.

[Midee1]

I know it is opinions but if anyone puts ray clark in an all-time russell backfield I would just have ask what your smoking. There were games he didn't wnat anything to do with contact.

To the question of Gross or Kasey? Both had something special can't really compare them. If you want all i would add to the conversation is 2-AA State Championship.


Where are you seeing anything about Ray Clark in an all Russell backfield?

[BBB]

I saw it on one of the boards but after reading again not on this one. sorry

[DEVILOLOGIST]

Gross or Clark, gross or clark,grossorclarkgrossorclarkgrossorclark.......T his is all starting to run together. You forget about Robert Brown, John Groves.......or someone other than these guys.....These two kids were the best that people can remember recently and they drive the attention. They both set records, they both are at the top of the leader boards in alot of catagories...They both played in the same backfield on the same team and they could not beat BELFRY.. Now are you telling me that BELFRY had the best backs in the history of their school that year...Probably so..........Did we??? Probably so because they are mentioned HERE in this thread competing against each other on whos best....... I would rather have championships, wins and undefeated seasons with a team that plays together rather than someone focusing on whos the best.. NOW I KNOW.. the kids did not start this thread, but alot of kids read these threads. To read a thread about your son,brother, cousin or friend and always have to feel you have to add more fuel to the fire about who was better, who is better, who will do the most in college...... How about who will grow up and give back to the community, and pass on the talents of their earnings and help develop a kid who doesnt even know who they are.." Josh did you play football in high school???" - I can hear it now- "Yea, I played running back when I was in school."
"Kasey did you ever play football in high school?- " Yea I played running back when I was in high school.".... These records may live at Russel for years and no one will ever come close to them. They are both great running backs, had the opportuniy to see both of them play together in the same backfield........Man I wish we could have beat Belfry that year....
PLease stop this thread about whos better. let them have their glory, their records and their dreams of being the best they could be..........in high school.They will both be remembered as two of the best at Russell, let their records stand for themselves.

[Midee1]

I saw it on one of the boards but after reading again not on this one. sorry

No need to apologize. Just wondering because I have never heard that name brought up before.

[bizmark]

devilologist chill out man. this is just so people can talk about stuff, you know that. if you want to hear about whos going to be the better person and give more back to the community then start a thread about that. you wantin to close this thread would be like closin a thread on the final score of a ball game. i could say "stop this thread. they are both good teams and one lost so it doesnt even matter" becasue thats what your sayin. if you dont like this thread then dont read it.

[Midee1]

devilologist chill out man. this is just so people can talk about stuff, you know that. if you want to hear about whos going to be the better person and give more back to the community then start a thread about that. you wantin to close this thread would be like closin a thread on the final score of a ball game. i could say "stop this thread. they are both good teams and one lost so it doesnt even matter" becasue thats what your sayin. if you dont like this thread then dont read it.


Bizmark I cannot understand why you find it necessary to argue with someone for stating their opinion on the subject. Let them state their opinion and move on. No need to be so defensive just because someones opinion differs from yours.

[DEVILOLOGIST]

Thanks for the input Midee1. If anyone knows me I spout off at lesser things. Yea I have learned alot from being a moderator, I have learned to keep my cool and to keep my personal thoguts out of respondings to posts. I am saying that everyone is going to have different opinions and this will never be solved.....Thats all I ma saying, you can not have a winner in this catogory unless you have 2 winners in this catagory.

[bizmark]

no the only thing that agervates me is that this thread does have a topic and jsut because devilologist doesnt like the topic he wants the thread closed. there have obviously been alot of people post on this thread so i dont see why he gets mad about us sayin who we think is better between the two. were talkin about football, not what theyre gonna do off the field later. just their high school careers

[Midee1]

no the only thing that agervates me is that this thread does have a topic and jsut because devilologist doesnt like the topic he wants the thread closed. there have obviously been alot of people post on this thread so i dont see why he gets mad about us sayin who we think is better between the two. were talkin about football, not what theyre gonna do off the field later. just their high school careers


He never said he wanted the thread closed. He said stop with the who's better thread. There is no real answer to that question. We all have our opinions on who's better and they are just that....Opinions. We could argue the fact for years and at the end there will be people that still like one better than the other.

The fact of the matter is that both were excellent football players in their own right.

[bizmark]

yes they both are

[DEVILOLOGIST]

Hey BIZ we agree on that ........OOOOH scary thought huh...

[bizmark]

haha

[t-cat50]

i've played against them both and kasey is a geat player but i would say josh because he didn't run as hard but was a little tougher to catch

[RedDevilRB]

im gonna have to say gross...kasey got a lil bit cocky this yr and tried to run around to much and then didnt get anywhere....gross ran straight and fast..but im not taking anything away from kasey he was a good running back but gross was better

[DevilsWin]

im gonna have to say gross...kasey got a lil bit cocky this yr and tried to run around to much and then didnt get anywhere....gross ran straight and fast..but im not taking anything away from kasey he was a good running back but gross was better
Gross did not run straight. He was all over the place, practically impossible to tackle. When Kasey was on his game he would just carry you, stiff arm you or run over you, It was when he tried to juke and jive that Kasey had problems, but he worked those type's of thing out his Junior year.

[t-cat50]

and I don't think gross played healthy every time i played him he had a massive knee brace ond and i used to see it at my doctors office on crutches all the time.

[bizmark]

^kasey played the playoffs this year with a torn miniscuss

[bizmark]

im gonna have to say gross...kasey got a lil bit cocky this yr and tried to run around to much and then didnt get anywhere....gross ran straight and fast..but im not taking anything away from kasey he was a good running back but gross was better

and i agree with devilswins response to this. but for devilrb, if you know kasey then you would know that he was actually less cocky this year then he had ever been at any point in his life. when he dance it wasnt because of cockiness, but he was trying to make something out of nothing instead of going ahead and takin the 3 yards at a time that mcglone preaches about.

[t-cat50]

^kasey played the playoffs this year with a torn miniscuss
i seen him on crutches on day and playing that night

[bizmark]

maybe my memory is slippin but i cant remember josh bein on crutches at any time.

[t-cat50]

maybe my memory is slippin but i cant remember josh bein on crutches at any time.
he went to doctor atkin when i i did he was on crutches and he played against us that night

[bizmark]

in 04 he had a bad ankle but i never remember him on crutches

[FBALL]

Gross did not run straight. He was all over the place, practically impossible to tackle. When Kasey was on his game he would just carry you, stiff arm you or run over you, It was when he tried to juke and jive that Kasey had problems, but he worked those type's of thing out his Junior year.
Gross was not a power back but he did run straight. He made his cut and headed straight up field. His vision and cutting ability are phemomenal. See the hole. Cut back. Straight up the field. He did not do alot of dancing around. He was the best I ever saw at doing this. Amazing cutbacks. Could cut on a dime and be back to full speed in a couple of steps.

[FBALL]

in 04 he had a bad ankle but i never remember him on crutches
He had a bad knee as well. He missed the first game of the season but played against Ashland. He was nowhere near 100%. he wore a huge knee brace the entire season.

[bizmark]

He had a bad knee as well. He missed the first game of the season but played against Ashland. He was nowhere near 100%. he wore a huge knee brace the entire season.

i know he missed the greenup game and wore a knee brace, but still, i went to school with him and never saw him on a pair of crutches

[DevilsWin]

Gross was not a power back but he did run straight. He made his cut and headed straight up field. His vision and cutting ability are phemomenal. See the hole. Cut back. Straight up the field. He did not do alot of dancing around. He was the best I ever saw at doing this. Amazing cutbacks. Could cut on a dime and be back to full speed in a couple of steps.

I have to agree with Fball here. Gross didn't dance around and juke and jive. He was excellent at reading the blocks in front of him.

As Charlie Dunlap used to say, " A little Shake and Bake".

[FBALL]

i know he missed the greenup game and wore a knee brace, but still, i went to school with him and never saw him on a pair of crutches
I'm not 100% certain but I believe he was on crutches right after the injury occured in the Scrimmage against Cabel Midland.

[bizmark]

well that wouldnt be friday before a game. i dont know, im just sayin i never remember seein josh on crutches and im pretty sure thats something that would probably have stood out to me if gross was on crutches

[FBALL]

well that wouldnt be friday before a game. i dont know, im just sayin i never remember seein josh on crutches and im pretty sure thats something that would probably have stood out to me if gross was on crutches
You don't remember so why the argument. Also I never said anything about the "friday before the game". That was a different post. Point is he was severely hampered by a bad leg all season and especially at the begining of the season.

[bizmark]

i know you didnt say that fball and i never said that you did say it i was refering to what was said by somebody else. and his leg bein bad all season isnt the point cause the other guy said gross was on crutches and playin football later that day, im sayin that didnt happen

[Tomcat68]

i know you didnt say that fball and i never said that you did say it i was refering to what was said by somebody else. and his leg bein bad all season isnt the point cause the other guy said gross was on crutches and playin football later that day, im sayin that didnt happen

I don't think it would be too far out of the realm of possibility, especially if he were at a doctor's office. We all know how cautious some doctors will act and make you do what you don't want or need to do. He could have easily had them in the office, got to the car, throw them in the backseat and never touched them again.

[russelldevils54]

Gross played 4 years as a varsity player and got about as many touches as Kasey got as a Sophmore.

Kasey's last 2 years he was "it" as far as having a great back.

In the 80's and 90's Russell had many more backs year in and year out.
So many different kids with outstanding athletic ability kept alot of kids like Robert Brown, Jeff Frasure, Drew Ramey and others from being able to amass the kind of TD's and yardage that Kasey and Gross had.

Brown and Frasure were both just as good as Kasey when it came to running over defenders.

Ramey was just as elusive as Gross.

If Ivan had given these guys 3-4 years in Russell's starting lineup and they too would have the same kind of stats.

The only running back Russell ever had go pro was John Groves. After he played at Alabama he was a Scab Player during the NFL strike in the 80's. This guy would bury defenders. I saw him knock a defenders helmet off in the 1982 State Semifinal at Ft Thomas when I was just 10 years old. Coldest night I can ever remember at a football game.





ive got film of ramey he runs and then seems 2 disapear in a pile of defenders but he just pops out and scores......its amazing

[RedDevil_TE]

Quite Frankley im going to be honest ive watched Gross and Clark play it seems to me kasey is goign to make the run look good with spin moves, jukes, and stiff arms , and wouldnt run the ball make neccessary cuts, he would have been much more productive. Gross did exactley what Clark did not be made neccassary cuts and was looking to get as many yards as he could not who he was going to juke out of their shoe's... just my personal opinion.

[devil58]

Who was better, Walter Peyton or Jim Brown??

Two totally different types of backs...Both were obviously great...That's pretty much what we are looking at here...

Who's better?? Who can say...It's all personal opinion so here is mine...The 2 most exciting backs I have ever seen at Russell & I have been watching closely since around 1977 are Josh Gross & Drew Ramey...Both had very good speed and could make defenses look stupid...Both were a threat to go the distance everytime they touched the ball and you felt that way when you watched them play...Gross' total package of vision, cutting ability, acceleration, and ability to make you miss are challenged only by Ramey's...

Clark is an excellent back who has a great combination of size and speed...He liked to run over people and once he got through the line he had the speed to break off a big gainer...You obviously have to rank Clark as one of the best who have ever worn the uniform based on stats & accomplishment but to me (again, my opinion) he is very similar to guys like Robert Brown...This is in no way a slam on Kasey because there is not a back in 2A over the last 2 years I would trade him for...I just feel that there are others through the years who were as gifted as he is but played in better overall backfields so the ball was spread around more...I'm sure I will get slammed for this but I hope everyone who has watched Russell football through the years and not just the past 5 years can see where I'm coming from...

One Russell coach told me when Josh was still young that he would be "the best Russell has ever seen because he has a gift that others just don't have and you cannot teach"..."He is just special"...

To sum it up, both will go down in history as 2 of Russell's greatest ever but pound for pound, inch for inch I have to agree with Coach...Gross is the best back we have seen at Russell...

[RedDevilRB]

Quite Frankley im going to be honest ive watched Gross and Clark play it seems to me kasey is goign to make the run look good with spin moves, jukes, and stiff arms , and wouldnt run the ball make neccessary cuts, he would have been much more productive. Gross did exactley what Clark did not be made neccassary cuts and was looking to get as many yards as he could not who he was going to juke out of their shoe's... just my personal opinion.

i did not see kasey juke nor spin that much last season...kasey just tried to make to many things happen...gross just went out there and ran...and ran fast

[oldballer73]

just like josh roark what an amazing qb
he was really a standout compared to the others

[RedDevil_TE]

and i agree with devilswins response to this. but for devilrb, if you know kasey then you would know that he was actually less cocky this year then he had ever been at any point in his life. when he dance it wasnt because of cockiness, but he was trying to make something out of nothing instead of going ahead and takin the 3 yards at a time that mcglone preaches about.

Yea well its not neccessary to alwayse make something out of nothing if he would have taken the three yards some of the times he would have came out on top. but then again everytime kasey tried to make something out of nothing he had amazing plays. And some of the plays i could not believe.

[RedDevilRB]

Yea well its not neccessary to alwayse make something out of nothing if he would have taken the three yards some of the times he would have came out on top. but then again everytime kasey tried to make something out of nothing he had amazing plays. And some of the plays i could not believe.

i agree with reddevilte..with the first part....if kasey would have just ran hard instead of making amazing things happen then good things would have happened unlike trying to gain a bunch of yard and not getting hardley any.....do you recall the belfry game on that punt return when kasey picked it up and fell to his knees??? what was that...i know there was people coming...but go ahead and get as many yards as you can instead of taking it way back there...i know if jones was back there he would take as many as he could get

[russelldevils54]

i agree with reddevilte..with the first part....if kasey would have just ran hard instead of making amazing things happen then good things would have happened unlike trying to gain a bunch of yard and not getting hardley any.....do you recall the belfry game on that punt return when kasey picked it up and fell to his knees??? what was that...i know there was people coming...but go ahead and get as many yards as you can instead of taking it way back there...i know if jones was back there he would take as many as he could get


remember when kasey got his helmet ripped off when we played boyd??


the rest of the game he was ****ed and ran hard.....that was the best version of him right there...
and what u said about the punt return is true, he was trying to make and outstanding play out of nothing.........if he would have just picked it up and started scootin he would have gotten more yards

[RedDevilRB]

remember when kasey got his helmet ripped off when we played boyd??


the rest of the game he was ****ed and ran hard.....that was the best version of him right there...
and what u said about the punt return is true, he was trying to make and outstanding play out of nothing.........if he would have just picked it up and started scootin he would have gotten more yards

yeah i agree that was prolly his best game this season

[bluegrassballa]

if i had to pick one, it would prolly be a tie. they were both pretty awesome that never would give up. although josh was more elusive than kasey, they both threw up good numbers. kasey aslo helped russell get to 2 state championships in a row winning one of them. so, to me, its a tie.