The Koran

[Old school Dawg]

The Holy bible was wrote by man but the words are from God Almighty himself delievered to the writers by the Holy Spirit.This is not where the words to the Koran came from.I myself, think Lucifer,was the author of the words of this book.This is what I think to be true!!!:devilflam

[BC75]

Whats the Koran?

[warriorpride]

Yea I was wondering about that myself.

[corndog23]

Come on guys, the Islamic Bible.

[alfus21]

Not usually pronounced that way, usually spelled Qu'ran.

[Midee1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qur'an

[BelfryJustice]

I attended and monitored the Nation of Islam group for several years while working in the prison system. This was part of my job. I was there to make sure that it was a religious group and not about crazy events such as escapes and so forth. The group taught about both the Quran and the Bible. A lot of what was taught was very similar to Christianity. There were a few things that I didn't agree with but a lot was very parallel to my beliefs. Several of the inmates in this group made me feel uncomfortable, but several I grew to gain a great deal of respect for. I learned so much about this religion. It needs to be known that there are many different separate groups of Islam. Some are not the evil ones that push for terrorism.

[Old school Dawg]

No but the bottom line is they do not believe Jesus Christ is the son of God Belfry Justice.We need to try to tell them about Jesus.

[Old school Dawg]

Remember the book satanic verses?This book basically was saying the same thing about where the inspiration of the Koran came from.Of course they put a bounty on the author,s head which is still there today.Simon Rushkie or something close to that was his name.

[TidesHoss32]

Weeeelllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll I might offend a few with this one. Like I care. And although I agree that there are a few seperate groups of islam, none of them are worth a crap and none of them are worth our boys dying for. Personally I think its a fake religion that gives idiot towel heads a reason to kill innocent people. THIS IS JUST MY OPINION. Dont care one thing about that punka$$ allah, the waste of perfectly good trees known as the qu'ran or however the **** you spell it. Wouldnt care one bit if all the qu'rans in the world get burnt up in a fire..in the plane they are flying to a big islam convention that accidently crashes into a skyscraper occupied by the taliban and burns right to ****. I personally dont care one bit if you are a muslim, or if I have offended you in the least bit, because I can promise you I wont lose sleep over it.

[Old school Dawg]

Tide hoss 32 I believe like you,, that it is a false religion.Your still with the steelers aint ya pal?

[TidesHoss32]

always, pal..Ill never jump that ship :thumpsup: Tide hoss 32 I believe like you,, that it is a false religion.Your still with the steelers aint ya pal?

[Beef]

How is it a false religion? It is their beliefs. And if I am not mistaken, they do believe in Jesus Christ, they just do not believe that he is the messiah but rather that Mohammad is. We both believe in the same god.

So following your reasoning because they don't believe in what you believe, any protestant Christian religion is fake because they do not have the same belies as I do. They do not follow ALL of the books of the bible and they do not believe in the role of the Pope.

It is their belief and just because it isn't the same as yours does not mean that it doesn't exist. Yes, they seem to be all of the radicals that hate America but I believe that it is this way because of some of the things that have been posted here. They believe that the US is here to totally destroy their religion and force Christianity on the whole world. There are millions of Muslims that are not radical like these guys just as there are probably Christians that kill because of their beliefs (Hitler?)

[thetribe]

I don't plan on commenting one way or another with this. I just want to say that you make sure you handle yourself in a mature, adult manner in this topic. It is a really touchy subject and there is already material that sounds way out of hand here. Just because this is General Discussion it does not mean that anything goes. The same rules apply here as they do to the rest of the site.

[BC75]

I don't plan on commenting one way or another with this. I just want to say that you make sure you handle yourself in a mature, adult manner in this topic. It is a really touchy subject and there is already material that sounds way out of hand here. Just because this is General Discussion it does not mean that anything goes. The same rules apply here as they do to the rest of the site..


:thumpsup:

[DTfan]

Guys get serious and STOP being childish. I am not in no way dissing your opinions or your beliefs BUT I do think we need to watch what we say in here, like tribe said this is an extremely touchy subject and you all know as well as I do that just because we live in America or to get more descriptive Kentucky doesn't mean that there is only one or two types of religion here. You all maybe be offending people and have no idea about it. Also just because a majority or the site is from Eastern Ky it doesnt mean that everyone on here is either Christian or Catholic, believe it or not some people on here may be from a Islamic background. Keep in mind that this is the internet and even though this site is based in Kentucky that doesn't mean that other people from various parts of the world can't get on here and read just the same as we do or **** even post on here.

[alfus21]

How is it a false religion? It is their beliefs. And if I am not mistaken, they do believe in Jesus Christ, they just do not believe that he is the messiah but rather that Mohammad is. We both believe in the same god.

So following your reasoning because they don't believe in what you believe, any protestant Christian religion is fake because they do not have the same belies as I do. They do not follow ALL of the books of the bible and they do not believe in the role of the Pope.

It is their belief and just because it isn't the same as yours does not mean that it doesn't exist. Yes, they seem to be all of the radicals that hate America but I believe that it is this way because of some of the things that have been posted here. They believe that the US is here to totally destroy their religion and force Christianity on the whole world. There are millions of Muslims that are not radical like these guys just as there are probably Christians that kill because of their beliefs (Hitler?)

I was about to post the same thing Beef. Good post. :thumpsup:

[BFritz]

What I don't get is how they say "God wants us to kill people," so God wants you to kill his creation? That makes no sense, it's like saying "I believe in God but I'm a Steelers fan"


:shh:


:)

[TidesHoss32]

:lmao: you got me, lol...good one Fritz.....so are you going to visitation at the Ohio State Pen. Saturday for Meet the Bengals Day?What I don't get is how they say "God wants us to kill people," so God wants you to kill his creation? That makes no sense, it's like saying "I believe in God but I'm a Steelers fan"


:shh:


:)

[TidesHoss32]

your right, it is their belief...and your first paragraph summed it up for me. Oh that and theyve been fighting since the beginning of time. No, it has NOTHING to do with the "just because they dont believe the same as me" argument. I am old enough and mature enough to know that. That, and I spent a good portion of my life around a LOT of muslims (7 1/2 years), so I have been introduced to their beliefs, that farce ramadon, and I know that there are a lot of muslims that arent radical. However, I can tell you that there a LOT more radical muslims that would kill a neighborhood full of innocent people than your typical radical Christian..If any of this has been taken out of hand by what I have written, any of my posts on this thread, then so be it. Im not apologizing, and I truly do not care if I offend anybody on here with MY OPINIONS. I have had six friends killed in Iraq because of this religion that is based on killing, and Im not gonna forfeit my opinion for the good of a site.How is it a false religion? It is their beliefs. And if I am not mistaken, they do believe in Jesus Christ, they just do not believe that he is the messiah but rather that Mohammad is. We both believe in the same god.
So following your reasoning because they don't believe in what you believe, any protestant Christian religion is fake because they do not have the same belies as I do. They do not follow ALL of the books of the bible and they do not believe in the role of the Pope.

It is their belief and just because it isn't the same as yours does not mean that it doesn't exist. Yes, they seem to be all of the radicals that hate America but I believe that it is this way because of some of the things that have been posted here. They believe that the US is here to totally destroy their religion and force Christianity on the whole world. There are millions of Muslims that are not radical like these guys just as there are probably Christians that kill because of their beliefs (Hitler?)

[corndog23]

How is it a false religion? It is their beliefs. And if I am not mistaken, they do believe in Jesus Christ, they just do not believe that he is the messiah but rather that Mohammad is. We both believe in the same god.

So following your reasoning because they don't believe in what you believe, any protestant Christian religion is fake because they do not have the same belies as I do. They do not follow ALL of the books of the bible and they do not believe in the role of the Pope.

It is their belief and just because it isn't the same as yours does not mean that it doesn't exist. Yes, they seem to be all of the radicals that hate America but I believe that it is this way because of some of the things that have been posted here. They believe that the US is here to totally destroy their religion and force Christianity on the whole world. There are millions of Muslims that are not radical like these guys just as there are probably Christians that kill because of their beliefs (Hitler?)

thank you Beef, you handled that in a much more civil way then I was about to do it. :):thumpsup:

[Disco Stu]

Weeeelllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll I might offend a few with this one. Like I care. And although I agree that there are a few seperate groups of islam, none of them are worth a crap and none of them are worth our boys dying for. Personally I think its a fake religion that gives idiot towel heads a reason to kill innocent people. THIS IS JUST MY OPINION. Dont care one thing about that punka$$ allah, the waste of perfectly good trees known as the qu'ran or however the **** you spell it. Wouldnt care one bit if all the qu'rans in the world get burnt up in a fire..in the plane they are flying to a big islam convention that accidently crashes into a skyscraper occupied by the taliban and burns right to ****. I personally dont care one bit if you are a muslim, or if I have offended you in the least bit, because I can promise you I wont lose sleep over it.

100% most ridiculous and uneducated post I've ever seen. I wonder where this typical picture of East Kentuckians comes from?

[BFritz]

100% most ridiculous and uneducated post I've ever seen. I wonder where this typical picture of East Kentuckians comes from?

So you're saying it's rediculous to do to the Muslims what they preach to do to other people? That makes no sense.

[Disco Stu]

So you're saying it's rediculous to do to the Muslims what they preach to do to other people? That makes no sense.

I don't understand anything you say and I think most people agree with me on that, so I don't ever know how to respond to you on that.

I said it was ridiculous to make insane, mad, and even insulting statements on a religion and it's beliefs like he did.

He calls it fake yet it was created much like Christianity was. Just because it's different doesn't make it wrong.

Muhammad much like Jesus is beleived to be God's messenger in the Islam religion. How is that so wrong?

I know Muslims reject the Trinity but they still believe Allah to be considered and worshiped under the same deity that Christians worship God.

Muslims do not all believe in the Jihad which is what is so controversial here, as it is not one of the 5 Pillars of Islam but sometimes considered to be the 6th.

The people who do believe in the Jihad believe that this violence only removes aggression and injustice of religion.

All I'm saying is, it's different but that doesn't mean it's wrong. Who are we to criticize other religous beliefs when America and it's Christian values have a long history of violence itself along with attempting to stuff our religon down other countries' throats?

Jesus and Muhammad both preached the word of God. Both considered themselves messengers and both inspired books of religion. How do we know which one is so right and which one isn't?

Religion is religion, and believing in something is good enough.

Most muslims are not radical extremists, as the Jihad preached in the Koran is usually not taken heavily by most Muslims who stick to the original 5 Pillars.

[Tomcat68]

I don't understand anything you say and I think most people agree with me on that, so I don't ever know how to respond to you on that.


BFritz was simply asking if you thought it were ridiculous to the same things to some Muslims as they have done to Americans and Christians during the WTC attacks.

Also, most people DO understand what BFritz usually says, even though we may have a different opinion on different subjects. That is the point of this type of message board. If there weren't any different views, there would be no point of posting.

[BFritz]

BFritz was simply asking if you thought it were ridiculous to the same things to some Muslims as they have done to Americans and Christians during the WTC attacks.

Also, most people DO understand what BFritz usually says, even though we may have a different opinion on different subjects. That is the point of this type of message board. If there weren't any different views, there would be no point of posting.

That's exactly what I'm asking, and thanks for pointing it out. Also, thanks for the second part, and I agree and know that many people won't have the same views as me.

[TidesHoss32]

you are a 100% *******. Uneducated? Open your eyes and look at whats going on. 100% most ridiculous and uneducated post I've ever seen. I wonder where this typical picture of East Kentuckians comes from?

[Disco Stu]

I don't understand anything you say and I think most people agree with me on that, so I don't ever know how to respond to you on that.

I said it was ridiculous to make insane, mad, and even insulting statements on a religion and it's beliefs like he did.

He calls it fake yet it was created much like Christianity was. Just because it's different doesn't make it wrong.

Muhammad much like Jesus is beleived to be God's messenger in the Islam religion. How is that so wrong?

I know Muslims reject the Trinity but they still believe Allah to be considered and worshiped under the same deity that Christians worship God.

Muslims do not all believe in the Jihad which is what is so controversial here, as it is not one of the 5 Pillars of Islam but sometimes considered to be the 6th.

The people who do believe in the Jihad believe that this violence only removes aggression and injustice of religion.

All I'm saying is, it's different but that doesn't mean it's wrong. Who are we to criticize other religous beliefs when America and it's Christian values have a long history of violence itself along with attempting to stuff our religon down other countries' throats?

Jesus and Muhammad both preached the word of God. Both considered themselves messengers and both inspired books of religion. How do we know which one is so right and which one isn't?

Religion is religion, and believing in something is good enough.

Most muslims are not radical extremists, as the Jihad preached in the Koran is usually not taken heavily by most Muslims who stick to the original 5 Pillars.

That's exactly what I'm asking, and thanks for pointing it out. Also, thanks for the second part, and I agree and know that many people won't have the same views as me.

you are a 100% *******. Uneducated? Open your eyes and look at whats going on.

Amazing rebuttals.

[TidesHoss32]

and another thing genius, i said IN MY OPINION I THINK ITS A FAKE RELIGION THAT IS BASED ON KILLING..I never said it was fake in the way you said it was. I am WELL AWARE that it was created. But all of you are saying that they worship the same God as we do. That is BULLSH*T. Do Christians call their God Allah? NO, therefore it is NOT THE SAME GOD. All of you geniuses read the book of Isaiah to where it will tell you about God is the ONLY GOD. And you can try preaching all you want that they arent all extremists..Open your eyes pal, and look at whats taking place. I dont care what any of you say, we have 3000+ (and RISING) that have died because of this so called religion. And even though they are radicals, THEY ARE STILL MUSLIMS. And as far as you saying that I am uneducated, open up your HOLY BIBLE, and READ IT. So you can feel as stupid as your posts. And any of you moderators, etc that want to handle things "so much tougher than what has been said on the forum, FEEL FREE TO PM ME and handle them any way you like. At least some of us, like BFritz, Old School Dawg, etc can turn on our televisions and see whats taking place in the REAL WORLD, not this "insensitive" world that you all want to whine and complain about.I don't understand anything you say and I think most people agree with me on that, so I don't ever know how to respond to you on that.

I said it was ridiculous to make insane, mad, and even insulting statements on a religion and it's beliefs like he did.

He calls it fake yet it was created much like Christianity was. Just because it's different doesn't make it wrong.

Muhammad much like Jesus is beleived to be God's messenger in the Islam religion. How is that so wrong?

I know Muslims reject the Trinity but they still believe Allah to be considered and worshiped under the same deity that Christians worship God.

Muslims do not all believe in the Jihad which is what is so controversial here, as it is not one of the 5 Pillars of Islam but sometimes considered to be the 6th.

The people who do believe in the Jihad believe that this violence only removes aggression and injustice of religion.

All I'm saying is, it's different but that doesn't mean it's wrong. Who are we to criticize other religous beliefs when America and it's Christian values have a long history of violence itself along with attempting to stuff our religon down other countries' throats?

Jesus and Muhammad both preached the word of God. Both considered themselves messengers and both inspired books of religion. How do we know which one is so right and which one isn't?

Religion is religion, and believing in something is good enough.

Most muslims are not radical extremists, as the Jihad preached in the Koran is usually not taken heavily by most Muslims who stick to the original 5 Pillars.

[TidesHoss32]

Read your last paragraph..not USUALLY...but "sometimes" though, right? Like now, maybe?.....whatever..yeah, this is coming from a guy that said that Bobby Knight has never accomplished anythingAmazing rebuttals.

[Beef]

and another thing genius, i said IN MY OPINION I THINK ITS A FAKE RELIGION THAT IS BASED ON KILLING..I never said it was fake in the way you said it was. I am WELL AWARE that it was created. But all of you are saying that they worship the same God as we do. That is BULLSH*T. Do Christians call their God Allah? NO, therefore it is NOT THE SAME GOD. All of you geniuses read the book of Isaiah to where it will tell you about God is the ONLY GOD. And you can try preaching all you want that they arent all extremists..Open your eyes pal, and look at whats taking place. I dont care what any of you say, we have 3000+ (and RISING) that have died because of this so called religion. And even though they are radicals, THEY ARE STILL MUSLIMS. And as far as you saying that I am uneducated, open up your HOLY BIBLE, and READ IT. So you can feel as stupid as your posts. And any of you moderators, etc that want to handle things "so much tougher than what has been said on the forum, FEEL FREE TO PM ME and handle them any way you like. At least some of us, like BFritz, Old School Dawg, etc can turn on our televisions and see whats taking place in the REAL WORLD, not this "insensitive" world that you all want to whine and complain about.The reason that they call "their" God Allah is because that is how that it is pronounced in Arabic, thier language of choice. Both Arab Christans and Arab Jews use the word "Allah" when refering to their God.

I agree with you that they do have more extremists (or at least visible ones) but I'll get more into this later tonight or tomorrow. It is the SAME god just different beliefs about who the Savior is.

If we can keep this from getting too out of hand, this could be one of the best debates that we have ever had on BGR. :redboxer:

[TidesHoss32]

Fritz buddy, as long as were not talking football, I agree with pretty much everything you say, lol:thumpsup: That's exactly what I'm asking, and thanks for pointing it out. Also, thanks for the second part, and I agree and know that many people won't have the same views as me.

[TidesHoss32]

ok ...this is my point. I have heard many "muslims" say that they reject "our" God, BECAUSE of exactly what you said. THAT is my fight. They DO NOT believe in our God BECAUSE we believe that the TRUE son of God died for us. And they dont. They believe in that whole mohammad theory. That is what I am saying. I have heard, THOUSANDS of times..If the true son of God is Jesus, then mohammad is their "savior" from THEIR God..thats what I am trying to point out..this was a point of emphasis by an inmate from the nation of islam at the prison I worked at..The reason that they call "their" God Allah is because that is how that it is pronounced in Arabic, thier language of choice. Both Arab Christans and Arab Jews use the word "Allah" when refering to their God.

I agree with you that they do have more extremists (or at least visible ones) but I'll get more into this later tonight or tomorrow. It is the SAME god just different beliefs about who the Savior is.

If we can keep this from getting too out of hand, this could be one of the best debates that we have ever had on BGR. :redboxer:

[Disco Stu]

and another thing genius, i said IN MY OPINION I THINK ITS A FAKE RELIGION THAT IS BASED ON KILLING..I never said it was fake in the way you said it was. I am WELL AWARE that it was created. But all of you are saying that they worship the same God as we do. That is BULLSH*T. Do Christians call their God Allah? NO, therefore it is NOT THE SAME GOD. All of you geniuses read the book of Isaiah to where it will tell you about God is the ONLY GOD. And you can try preaching all you want that they arent all extremists..Open your eyes pal, and look at whats taking place. I dont care what any of you say, we have 3000+ (and RISING) that have died because of this so called religion. And even though they are radicals, THEY ARE STILL MUSLIMS. And as far as you saying that I am uneducated, open up your HOLY BIBLE, and READ IT. So you can feel as stupid as your posts. And any of you moderators, etc that want to handle things "so much tougher than what has been said on the forum, FEEL FREE TO PM ME and handle them any way you like. At least some of us, like BFritz, Old School Dawg, etc can turn on our televisions and see whats taking place in the REAL WORLD, not this "insensitive" world that you all want to whine and complain about.

Because it's not the same God doesn't make it wrong. Why can you not see that? Who's to say what religion is right and which is wrong. The Koran was written by Allah who claimed to be a messenger of God. It has fallacies but so does the Bible. The Bible was written much like the Koran by people who had experiences with Jesus who claimed to be a messenger of God.

How do we know which is right and which is wrong anyways? Who's to say everything in the bible is 100% fact?

Adam, Enoch, Noah, Heber, Shelah, Abraham, Lot, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Job, Jethro, David, Solomon, Elijah, Elisha, Jonah, Aaron, Moses, Zechariah, Jesus, and John the Baptist are mentioned in the Qur'an as prophets of God.

Like I said, the Koran and Islam religion preaches the 5 Pillars which are faith, prayer, obligatory almsgiving, fasting, and the Pilgrimage to Mecca. Most stick to these, and not what is believed to be the 6th which includes violence and destruction of non-believers.

Do you not understand that Islam DOES believe in God and simply states that Allah is just the term they refer to him as? Muhammad simply stated he was a messenger of God, very similar to Jesus.

My eyes are open. I've not been sheltered my whole life to call any other religion fake despite if I may have differences with it or not. A religion founded on belief of a God is a real relgion, and despite Islams' differences it is anything but fake. It was founded around 400 years after Christianity was preached by Jesus, and to insult people for their beliefs is no different than what radical muslims do by insulting ours.

3000 soldiers dead? I think our soldiers have killed quite a bit more than 3,000 innocent Muslims in Iraq who want nothing to do with this war.

[Disco Stu]

Qur'an 17:23
Thy Lord hath decreed that ye worship none but Him . . .

Exodus 20:3
You shall have no other gods before Me

[Disco Stu]

Qur'an 7:180
And Allah's are the best names, therefore call on Him thereby, and leave alone those who violate the sanctity of His names; they shall be requited for what they did.

Exodus 20:7
You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not leave him unpunished who takes His name in vain.

Qur'an 17:33
Nor take life which Allah has made sacred . . .

Exodus 20:13
You shall not kill

Qur'an 17:32
Nor come nigh to adultery: for it is a shameful (deed) and an evil, opening the road (to other evils). '

Exodus 20:14
You shall not commit Adultery

[Advance Eagles]

:shh: From a Red Devils point of view, as my pastor said during F-Ball season." The Devil is real we should all be affraid."

Just something to say to lighten you guys up.

[Disco Stu]

Similarities

-In both religions, God is considered the Ultimate creator of the Universe.
-In both religions, God has a master/servant relationship
-Have similar eschatology (pertaining to the last days or the end of the world) -- this world will come to an end someday and no-one knows when.
-A figure referred to as Satan or Antichrist (dajjal) (a figure of evil) will be defeated at the end of the world.
-After the world has ended, God will judge humans, based on their actions in compliance with a moral code, specified in the Covenant which God makes with us.
-This judgment will determine one's eternal abode, heaven or **** (bliss or punishment).
-Humans have the ability (free will) to choose between good and evil (obeying or disobeying God, complying with the moral code of the Covenant or transgressing).
-Satan (shaitan) exists, as well as evil spirits who follow him; they are the enemies of humanity.
-If a person errs or transgresses, God may forgive them, if they sincerely repent.
-Prophets brought spiritual instruction.
-There are similarities between the Quranic and biblical version of many stories, such as Adam and Eve, Moses and the children of Israel, etc.
-At the time of the end of the world, Jesus Christ will come again.
-Jesus Christ was born to the virgin Mary.

[TidesHoss32]

the first sentence of your nonsense is all I read and I needed not to go further...and another thing...THE TRUE SON OF GOD WAS JESUS. How can that be the same God that we (or at least I do anyways) believe in? Because IT ISNT. How can it be??? And another thing, as far as the comment you made about our soldiers. That is pathetic. You are pathetic. If it wasnt for OUR SOLDIERS protecting them, that whole country would be buried, and you know it. So allow ME to apologize for them not being "perfect" in engaging in warfare. And ill apologize to THEM for YOUR ignorance. I despise people like you. I really do. But that was an absolutely waste of time, what you just posted. You seem to forget, that although ALL of them (may allah bless their hearts) may not use violence, that the good **** majority have done a lot of damage to the entire world. So you can quit wasting your useless time telling me that "they arent all bad". Your probably right, although I refuse to believe any of it. Because I have had six friends to die in that cause to keep the "good muslims" from being SLAUGHTERED by the "bad" muslims. Wanna know the amazing thing about that? THEY ARE ALL MUSLIMS! And dont go saying "how do we know" if the Bible is right? How do we know? You believe what you believe, but Ill go right ahead and believe the truth. Because it's not the same God doesn't make it wrong. Why can you not see that? Who's to say what religion is right and which is wrong. The Koran was written by Allah who claimed to be a messenger of God. It has fallacies but so does the Bible. The Bible was written much like the Koran by people who had experiences with Jesus who claimed to be a messenger of God.

How do we know which is right and which is wrong anyways? Who's to say everything in the bible is 100% fact?

Adam, Enoch, Noah, Heber, Shelah, Abraham, Lot, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Job, Jethro, David, Solomon, Elijah, Elisha, Jonah, Aaron, Moses, Zechariah, Jesus, and John the Baptist are mentioned in the Qur'an as prophets of God.

Like I said, the Koran and Islam religion preaches the 5 Pillars which are faith, prayer, obligatory almsgiving, fasting, and the Pilgrimage to Mecca. Most stick to these, and not what is believed to be the 6th which includes violence and destruction of non-believers.

Do you not understand that Islam DOES believe in God and simply states that Allah is just the term they refer to him as? Muhammad simply stated he was a messenger of God, very similar to Jesus.

My eyes are open. I've not been sheltered my whole life to call any other religion fake despite if I may have differences with it or not. A religion founded on belief of a God is a real relgion, and despite Islams' differences it is anything but fake. It was founded around 400 years after Christianity was preached by Jesus, and to insult people for their beliefs is no different than what radical muslims do by insulting ours.

3000 soldiers dead? I think our soldiers have killed quite a bit more than 3,000 innocent Muslims in Iraq who want nothing to do with this war.

[Disco Stu]

. Dont care one thing about that punka$$ allah,.

You don't care one thing about God?

[Disco Stu]

the first sentence of your nonsense is all I read and I needed not to go further...and another thing...THE TRUE SON OF GOD WAS JESUS. How can that be the same God that we (or at least I do anyways) believe in? Because IT ISNT. How can it be??? And another thing, as far as the comment you made about our soldiers. That is pathetic. You are pathetic. If it wasnt for OUR SOLDIERS protecting them, that whole country would be buried, and you know it. So allow ME to apologize for them not being "perfect" in engaging in warfare. And ill apologize to THEM for YOUR ignorance. I despise people like you. I really do. But that was an absolutely waste of time, what you just posted. You seem to forget, that although ALL of them (may allah bless their hearts) may not use violence, that the good **** majority have done a lot of damage to the entire world. So you can quit wasting your useless time telling me that "they arent all bad". Your probably right, although I refuse to believe any of it. Because I have had six friends to die in that cause to keep the "good muslims" from being SLAUGHTERED by the "bad" muslims. Wanna know the amazing thing about that? THEY ARE ALL MUSLIMS! And dont go saying "how do we know" if the Bible is right? How do we know? You believe what you believe, but Ill go right ahead and believe the truth.

I understand why you didn't read it. It's too much for your brain to handle. Simple as that.

They believed Jesus was a prophet of God. That is not difference enough to make you go on the craziest, most insane, and ridiculous post I've ever seen on here. You called their religion fake. It's based on the belief of the same God we believe in. They just believe Jesus was a messenger much like Muhammad.

This religion doesn't claim to have a SON OF GOD as you keep saying, but just a prophet that preached similar things as Jesus.

You just said "Believe what you believe" It's no different than these people thinking their belief is the truth. How do you know what you believe in is the truth.

Also, there is no need to get personal in this discussion. If you can't handle it more maturely than you are then maybe you should leave the thread, because you're not only making a mockery of yourself but this thread that people may want to act civil in as well.

[TidesHoss32]

all I know is that they are killing our soldiers, sawing the heads off of innocent people (like the cowards they are), and flying planes into occupied buildings so they can go be with 72 virgins (although Im sure somebody will rewrite it next week and make it an even 100) in their so called Heaven. Which just cracks me the **** up.Similarities

-In both religions, God is considered the Ultimate creator of the Universe.
-In both religions, God has a master/servant relationship
-Have similar eschatology (pertaining to the last days or the end of the world) -- this world will come to an end someday and no-one knows when.
-A figure referred to as Satan or Antichrist (dajjal) (a figure of evil) will be defeated at the end of the world.
-After the world has ended, God will judge humans, based on their actions in compliance with a moral code, specified in the Covenant which God makes with us.
-This judgment will determine one's eternal abode, heaven or **** (bliss or punishment).
-Humans have the ability (free will) to choose between good and evil (obeying or disobeying God, complying with the moral code of the Covenant or transgressing).
-Satan (shaitan) exists, as well as evil spirits who follow him; they are the enemies of humanity.
-If a person errs or transgresses, God may forgive them, if they sincerely repent.
-Prophets brought spiritual instruction.
-There are similarities between the Quranic and biblical version of many stories, such as Adam and Eve, Moses and the children of Israel, etc.
-At the time of the end of the world, Jesus Christ will come again.
-Jesus Christ was born to the virgin Mary.

[Midee1]

Guys this is a good heated debate. Please keep all of the petty name calling out of it. You all can debate without resorting to name calling to get your point across.

[Disco Stu]

all I know is that they are killing our soldiers, sawing the heads off of innocent people (like the cowards they are), and flying planes into occupied buildings so they can go be with 72 virgins (although Im sure somebody will rewrite it and make it an even 100) in their so called Heaven. Which just cracks me the **** up.

That is right. That is all you know, and it shows.

America has never killed any innocent people though right? America has a higher murder rate than the rest of the World combined, and has a dark history just like the rest of the World today.

I'm not telling you to believe in the word of Islam. That is not the point. The point I was trying to make is that because you don't believe in a religion gives you no right to completely destroy it. You obviously knew nothing about it until I began posting in this thread and it showed brightly in your first "intriguing" post in this thread.

You called it fake, and I called you out on it, and you can't explain in a LOGICAL manner how it is fake when it is based on belief of the same God and has so many similarities, and believed to be written by a Messenger of the same God we believe in.

[TidesHoss32]

I would LOVE to see you get me off of this thread. My opinions are strong. And by you saying that our soldiers have killed more than 3000 innocent people in Iraq in the way you said it, you are by God making this personal. And as far as my crazy, insane, ridiculous posts, your **** right they are. But I believe in the truth. And thats not ridiculous. I am handling this very maturely, but when your talking to someone oh, such as yourself, its very hard NOT to get bent out of shape. I understand why you didn't read it. It's too much for your brain to handle. Simple as that.

They believed Jesus was a prophet of God. That is not difference enough to make you go on the craziest, most insane, and ridiculous post I've ever seen on here. You called their religion fake. It's based on the belief of the same God we believe in. They just believe Jesus was a messenger much like Muhammad.

This religion doesn't claim to have a SON OF GOD as you keep saying, but just a prophet that preached similar things as Jesus.

You just said "Believe what you believe" It's no different than these people thinking their belief is the truth. How do you know what you believe in is the truth.

Also, there is no need to get personal in this discussion. If you can't handle it more maturely than you are then maybe you should leave the thread, because you're not only making a mockery of yourself but this thread that people may want to act civil in as well.

[TidesHoss32]

I said IN MY OPINION...GO READ THE **** POST AGAIN. And ill say it again, IN MY OPINION, IT IS A RELIGION BASED ON KILLING. That is right. That is all you know, and it shows.

America has never killed any innocent people though right? America has a higher murder rate than the rest of the World combined, and has a dark history just like the rest of the World today.

I'm not telling you to believe in the word of Islam. That is not the point. The point I was trying to make is that because you don't believe in a religion gives you no right to completely destroy it. You obviously knew nothing about it until I began posting in this thread and it showed brightly in your first "intriguing" post in this thread.

You called it fake, and I called you out on it, and you can't explain in a LOGICAL manner how it is fake when it is based on belief of the same God and has so many similarities, and believed to be written by a Messenger of the same God we believe in.

[Disco Stu]

Islam is not radical by simply reading the scripture of the Koran, but many Muslims have interpreted Islam in a totally corrupted way to serve their political and social agendas. Much like the current Westboro Church who shines a bad light on the Christian Religion.

[TidesHoss32]

so that whole 6th pillar thing is just something that dont exist? (see Middle East for more information)Islam is not radical by simply reading the scripture of the Koran, but many Muslims have interpreted Islam in a totally corrupted way to serve their political and social agendas. Much like the current Westboro Church who shines a bad light on the Christian Religion.

[TidesHoss32]

I care about MY GODYou don't care one thing about God?

[TidesHoss32]

read the 4th paragraph of your own post...MOST dont, right? Thats why the biggest war in the **** world taking place right now is being fought. Because of THOSE THAT DO. Because it's not the same God doesn't make it wrong. Why can you not see that? Who's to say what religion is right and which is wrong. The Koran was written by Allah who claimed to be a messenger of God. It has fallacies but so does the Bible. The Bible was written much like the Koran by people who had experiences with Jesus who claimed to be a messenger of God.

How do we know which is right and which is wrong anyways? Who's to say everything in the bible is 100% fact?

Adam, Enoch, Noah, Heber, Shelah, Abraham, Lot, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Job, Jethro, David, Solomon, Elijah, Elisha, Jonah, Aaron, Moses, Zechariah, Jesus, and John the Baptist are mentioned in the Qur'an as prophets of God.

Like I said, the Koran and Islam religion preaches the 5 Pillars which are faith, prayer, obligatory almsgiving, fasting, and the Pilgrimage to Mecca. Most stick to these, and not what is believed to be the 6th which includes violence and destruction of non-believers.

Do you not understand that Islam DOES believe in God and simply states that Allah is just the term they refer to him as? Muhammad simply stated he was a messenger of God, very similar to Jesus.

My eyes are open. I've not been sheltered my whole life to call any other religion fake despite if I may have differences with it or not. A religion founded on belief of a God is a real relgion, and despite Islams' differences it is anything but fake. It was founded around 400 years after Christianity was preached by Jesus, and to insult people for their beliefs is no different than what radical muslims do by insulting ours.

3000 soldiers dead? I think our soldiers have killed quite a bit more than 3,000 innocent Muslims in Iraq who want nothing to do with this war.

[Disco Stu]

I would LOVE to see you get me off of this thread. My opinions are strong. And by you saying that our soldiers have killed more than 3000 innocent people in Iraq in the way you said it, you are by God making this personal. And as far as my crazy, insane, ridiculous posts, your **** right they are. But I believe in the truth. And thats not ridiculous. I am handling this very maturely, but when your talking to someone oh, such as yourself, its very hard NOT to get bent out of shape.

How did I make this personal? It was a similar comparison in my opinion that America based on Christianity has killed more Muslims than they have killed us. Once again, how do you know what you believe in is the truth. Please enlighten me.

I said IN MY OPINION...GO READ THE **** POST AGAIN. And ill say it again, IN MY OPINION, IT IS A RELIGION BASED ON KILLING.

It is not based on killing. I honestly have no clue where you are getting this from. There are radical Muslims much like there are radical Christians who take things out of context to make it appear bad, but there is no such religion as Radical Islam that preaches killings.

Regrettably, many terrorists groups have used the name Islam to promote their cause and this gave many non-Muslims a chance to asperse Islam and label the Muslims as terrorists. Deliberately ignored on the other hand, are terrorists who happen to be Christians or Jews.

What about the terrorist attacks on Bosnia done by Christians to promote their agendas? How do you feel about those?

Or what about the Jewish terrorists attacks in Lebanon, Israel, and Palestine that is derived from Judaism.

Does that mean it's fake?

[Disco Stu]

I care about MY GOD

Why don't you understand they believe in the same God as Christians?

[Disco Stu]

The Quran is very clear that the believers must defend themselves but never to aggress. It is true that Islam (Submission) calls for the followers to be strong. This call however is to use the strength to secure peace, provide freedom for the society and the country but never to agress unless agressed upon.

What do you expect these Muslims in Iraq to do? Sit back and let their country be taken away from them because of an attack they had nothing to do with?

The 9/11 attacks were from terrorists who were pushed to believe by Bin Laden that religion was the key reason in doing so when in reality in was to help his political and social agendas and problems he has had with a country that has threatened his beliefs for years.

[TidesHoss32]

because the Christian Son of God was Jesus, and He died for us (well, me anyways).. Why don't you understand they believe in the same God as Christians?

[Disco Stu]

because the Christian Son of God was Jesus, and He died for us (well, me anyways)..

Because they believe Jesus was a messenger like Muhammad, but yet the same God is believed to have preached to Muhammad, it's all together fake and not a real belief?

[TidesHoss32]

ok, for one, WE ARE FIGHTING FOR THOSE MUSLIMS that would get slaughtered by insurgents and terrorists So by saying that "what are these muslims in Iraq to do? We arent attacking THOSE MUSLIMS, we are attacking those terrorists, insurgents, etc..And FYI, those "horrible American soldier butchers" that have fought for your sorry ***, are attempting to train the Iraqis, and trying to stabilize the **** country. Not killing innocent muslims. Where are you getting that from???????The Quran is very clear that the believers must defend themselves but never to aggress. It is true that Islam (Submission) calls for the followers to be strong. This call however is to use the strength to secure peace, provide freedom for the society and the country but never to agress unless agressed upon.

What do you expect these Muslims in Iraq to do? Sit back and let their country be taken away from them because of an attack they had nothing to do with?

The 9/11 attacks were from terrorists who were pushed to believe by Bin Laden that religion was the key reason in doing so when in reality in was to help his political and social agendas and problems he has had with a country that has threatened his beliefs for years.

[TidesHoss32]

listen...it CANNOT BE THE SAME GOD if there are different beliefs. How is it the same God??? Jesus was the SON OF GOD. Not JUST a messenger. Because they believe Jesus was a messenger like Muhammad, but yet the same God is believed to have preached to Muhammad, it's all together fake and not a real belief?

[Disco Stu]

ok, for one, WE ARE FIGHTING FOR THOSE MUSLIMS that would get slaughtered by insurgents and terrorists So by saying that "what are these muslims in Iraq to do? We arent attacking THOSE MUSLIMS, we are attacking those terrorists, insurgents, etc..And FYI, those "horrible American soldier butchers" that have fought for your sorry ***, are attempting to train the Iraqis, and trying to stabilize the **** country. Not killing innocent muslims. Where are you getting that from???????

I'm glad you've bought into everything you're being told. Why would we have not went and fought for those Muslims before 9/11 since that's what you believe? It's not our country to stabilize. It wasn't in great shape before but it's an absolute mess now. I never called soldiers horrible butchers so don't put words in my mouth. I simply stated there is no difference in a country based on Christianity killing thousands of Innocent people in their country as an attack by Muslims with an agenda on our country. They all have the right to fight back, radical or not.

listen...it CANNOT BE THE SAME GOD if there are different beliefs. How is it the same God??? Jesus was the SON OF GOD. Not JUST a messenger.

Yes it can. Just because they have a different view than Jesus doesn't mean they're not preaching the same God. They believed Jesus was a messenger, and Muhammad was a messenger, FROM THE SAME GOD. Just because of their difference in opinion on the matter doesn't mean they don't worship the same God.

It also doesn't mean it's fake, nor that they are stupid for believing it.

[TidesHoss32]

3000 soldiers dead? I think our soldiers have killed quite a bit more than 3,000 innocent Muslims in Iraq who want nothing to do with this war........that was what you wrote. So what exactly did you mean by that? SO your saying our soldiers have killed more than 3000 innocent civilians? Those Iraqis your talking about, the ones that are fighting against our boys, do you support them? Because from what I am reading, you do. You said radical or not, have the right to fight back. So do you support the insurgent cause? Since that is what you wrote. Thats not putting words in your mouth. That is what you wrote. And you go ahead and believe they worship the same God, you or no one else will ever convince me of it. I have spoken to pastors, and they too, will tell you that is NOT the same God. OK, Ill give you the part where there are a "few" similarities. But thats like saying that me and you are similar because we wake up in the morning. I'm glad you've bought into everything you're being told. Why would we have not went and fought for those Muslims before 9/11 since that's what you believe? It's not our country to stabilize. It wasn't in great shape before but it's an absolute mess now. I never called soldiers horrible butchers so don't put words in my mouth. I simply stated there is no difference in a country based on Christianity killing thousands of Innocent people in their country as an attack by Muslims with an agenda on our country. They all have the right to fight back, radical or not.



Yes it can. Just because they have a different view than Jesus doesn't mean they're not preaching the same God. They believed Jesus was a messenger, and Muhammad was a messenger, FROM THE SAME GOD. Just because of their difference in opinion on the matter doesn't mean they don't worship the same God.

It also doesn't mean it's fake, nor that they are stupid for believing it.

[Disco Stu]

3000 soldiers dead? I think our soldiers have killed quite a bit more than 3,000 innocent Muslims in Iraq who want nothing to do with this war........that was what you wrote. So what exactly did you mean by that? SO your saying our soldiers have killed more than 3000 innocent civilians? Those Iraqis your talking about, the ones that are fighting against our boys, do you support them? Because from what I am reading, you do. You said radical or not, have the right to fight back. So do you support the insurgent cause? Since that is what you wrote. Thats not putting words in your mouth. That is what you wrote. And you go ahead and believe they worship the same God, you or no one else will ever convince me of it. I have spoken to pastors, and they too, will tell you that is NOT the same God. OK, Ill give you the part where there are a "few" similarities. But thats like saying that me and you are similar because we wake up in the morning.

I'm not talking about US Soldiers only killing the ones who fight back. I'm talking about the ones killed in the line of fire who have nothing to do with this. I won't get into the issue of this war anymore because I am 100% against it, and I do support the troops despite the fact I disagree with most of what they're doing. That argument is for another thread.

If you're not going to be convinced that's fine. But it's unfortunate that some people won't at least let theirselves open up for a topic because of stubbornness. I'm sure pastors have told you that. Are they supposed to support other religions or bring in people to their own? :)

I won't judge Muslims or their religion and I won't bash it or call it fake. I once heard that we're not supposed to judge people based on anything, and it's quite ironic to me that someone preaching Christianity so hard would be the one doing the judging.

[BFritz]

Hold on, I have a question......... if they believe that Jesus was only a prophet, while we believe that He was not only the son of God, but God Himself, how do they believe in the same God as us?

[TidesHoss32]

Im not judging anyone, I was simply stating my opinion. You didnt like it. We got into a debate. Its that simple. You believe what you believe. I dont believe what you believe. I have opened myself up for this topic, which is why I have spent the last hour and then some debating with you before I go to work. And when was the last time you seen a perfect war? You know, one that has had ZERO civilian casualties?? By disagreeing with what our troops are doing, pretty much means that you dont support our troops. So I think Ill keep this in this thread, since they are fighting FOR those muslims, and trying to PROTECT those muslims AGAINST those insurgents and terrorists that, according to you, "have every right to fight back"..And you say that we arent trying to stabilize that country. We stayed there after capturing saddam hussein, when we could have turned it over to them and left...And if it is the same God that you believe, wouldnt a pastor at least tell me that "yes it is the same God, BUT..."..NO..thats because it is NOT the same God that muslims believe in. So your right, Ill never be convinced. You never did answer my question...Do you support the insurgents? I am just freakin curious. I'm not talking about US Soldiers only killing the ones who fight back. I'm talking about the ones killed in the line of fire who have nothing to do with this. I won't get into the issue of this war anymore because I am 100% against it, and I do support the troops despite the fact I disagree with most of what they're doing. That argument is for another thread.

If you're not going to be convinced that's fine. But it's unfortunate that some people won't at least let theirselves open up for a topic because of stubbornness. I'm sure pastors have told you that. Are they supposed to support other religions or bring in people to their own? :)

I won't judge Muslims or their religion and I won't bash it or call it fake. I once heard that we're not supposed to judge people based on anything, and it's quite ironic to me that someone preaching Christianity so hard would be the one doing the judging.

[TidesHoss32]

its simple Fritz..because it ISNT THE SAME GOD..thats the whole point Im desperately trying to make. Hold on, I have a question......... if they believe that Jesus was only a prophet, while we believe that He was not only the son of God, but God Himself, how do they believe in the same God as us?

[BFritz]

its simple Fritz..because it ISNT THE SAME GOD..thats the whole point Im desperately trying to make.

I know, I was trying to get the people who are arguing for Islam to explain.

From an Islamic website:
"If anyone harms (others), God will harm him, and if anyone shows hostility to others, God will show hostility to him." Sunan of Abu-Dawood, Hadith 1625.

(I happen to be doing a report on the Crusades)

[TidesHoss32]

they wont...already tried, lolI know, I was trying to get the people who are arguing for Islam to explain.

From an Islamic website:


(I happen to be doing a report on the Crusades)

[PLAYBOY5]

Well, I could care less about any Muslims.. But you know..That is JUST MY OPINION~ I LOVE THE GOD I WAS RAISED TO WORSHIP, so whoever else wants to believe and support any other religion or "any other God"..GO RIGHT AHEAD! Mines well move over to Iraq and get used to the heat!

[alfus21]

I may not agree with the religion of Islam but I wouldn't call it fake or degrade their beliefs. They seem very similar in several aspects to me and both believe in God. Anything based on the belief of a God to me doesn't seem fake. For the most apart I agree with what Beef and DS are saying, and I don't understand the hostility towards the Muslim people from some members.

[alfus21]

And the religions do believe in the same God. I find it simple to believe that the Muslims don't believe God lived through Jesus yet still believe the same God exists because that same God in their opinion spoke to Jesus in their opinion rather than through him.

Muslims believe there is no God but God. "Allah" is the Arabic word for "God". This god is the sovereign Lord of the universe. Everything that occurs is according to his will. He is also the source of both good and evil.

God is God, in any religion.

That's my opinion anyways. I think that may just be what this boils down to as people will argue about it on and on is opinions.

[thetribe]

This thread is getting out of hand. It is a great debate but name calling, personal attacks, threats, vulgarity, all of that needs to be kept out of it. Like I said, the rules applies here as they do to the rest of the site. Debate all you want, support your opinion with facts not with cursing, threats and getting bent out of shape. With all of the cursing that IS going on in this thread it's hard to believe that you are so steadfast in your religion.

[PLAYBOY5]

Nobody said you had to be a preacher to believe in what you want to believe in as far as religion. And by no means am I living right and for the cussing part in which I haven't and know that you aren't talking about me anyways, I am like TidesHoss32 on EVERY ASPECT and BFritz, but I do believe in God and that Jesus died for us to be on this Earth today!

[Old school Dawg]

I think the fact they dont believe Jesus was the son of God is very clear to me They are worshiping a different God.Jesus was God.They think he was merely a man.I believe that they dont.The bible teaches there is only access to the father through the Son.That is what I believe the Muslims dont.Read about the life of Muhammed and it does not compare with Jesus.His last wife was a 9 year old girl.She did stay with him until he died.She was 18.I believe Jesus lived a sinless life and his death on the cross was sufficent to God to cover our sins.His death on the cross means nothing to the Muslims as far as them getting to Heaven.Now please no one get mad.People get mad if you say anything about the Muslim religion while seeminly point out every bad thing one could say about Christianity.This country was founded on the truths of the Bible not the Koran.Now I know there is freedom of religion in this country but this country was not introduced to the Koran as far as I can read till far later.

[Old school Dawg]

After reading the posts instead of saying anything negative about Islam I will stick to just telling about Jesus.

[PLAYBOY5]

I think the fact they dont believe Jesus was the son of God is very clear to me They are worshiping a different God.Jesus was God.They think he was merely a man.I believe that they dont.The bible teaches there is only access to the father through the Son.That is what I believe the Muslims dont.Read about the life of Muhammed and it does not compare with Jesus.His last wife was a 9 year old girl.She did stay with him until he died.She was 18.I believe Jesus lived a sinless life and his death on the cross was sufficent to God to cover our sins.His death on the cross means nothing to the Muslims as far as them getting to Heaven.Now please no one get mad.People get mad if you say anything about the Muslim religion while seeminly point out every bad thing one could say about Christianity.This country was founded on the truths of the Bible not the Koran.Now I know there is freedom of religion in this country but this country was not introduced to the Koran as far as I can read till far later.
Your last 2 sentences SUMS EVERYTHING UP ABOUT HIS ENTIRE THREAD!:Thumbs:

[TidesHoss32]

Thank you OSD, that was a great post. Maybe a few people on here will read this post and get it through their heads that it isnt the same God. And let them get mad. Who cares if they do?I think the fact they dont believe Jesus was the son of God is very clear to me They are worshiping a different God.Jesus was God.They think he was merely a man.I believe that they dont.The bible teaches there is only access to the father through the Son.That is what I believe the Muslims dont.Read about the life of Muhammed and it does not compare with Jesus.His last wife was a 9 year old girl.She did stay with him until he died.She was 18.I believe Jesus lived a sinless life and his death on the cross was sufficent to God to cover our sins.His death on the cross means nothing to the Muslims as far as them getting to Heaven.Now please no one get mad.People get mad if you say anything about the Muslim religion while seeminly point out every bad thing one could say about Christianity.This country was founded on the truths of the Bible not the Koran.Now I know there is freedom of religion in this country but this country was not introduced to the Koran as far as I can read till far later.

[TidesHoss32]

I disagree completely with what you are saying in your first and third paragraph. Depending on what you believe in (Im not asking you by the way), they believe in the God that they believe in, and I believe in God. If you are a Christian, you have to give your soul to Jesus, the true Son of God. If this isnt what muslims agree with, then they worship a different God than I do. And the religions do believe in the same God. I find it simple to believe that the Muslims don't believe God lived through Jesus yet still believe the same God exists because that same God in their opinion spoke to Jesus in their opinion rather than through him.

Muslims believe there is no God but God. "Allah" is the Arabic word for "God". This god is the sovereign Lord of the universe. Everything that occurs is according to his will. He is also the source of both good and evil.

God is God, in any religion.

That's my opinion anyways. I think that may just be what this boils down to as people will argue about it on and on is opinions.

[Card_KiD_5]

How is it a false religion? It is their beliefs. And if I am not mistaken, they do believe in Jesus Christ, they just do not believe that he is the messiah but rather that Mohammad is. We both believe in the same god.

So following your reasoning because they don't believe in what you believe, any protestant Christian religion is fake because they do not have the same belies as I do. They do not follow ALL of the books of the bible and they do not believe in the role of the Pope.

It is their belief and just because it isn't the same as yours does not mean that it doesn't exist. Yes, they seem to be all of the radicals that hate America but I believe that it is this way because of some of the things that have been posted here. They believe that the US is here to totally destroy their religion and force Christianity on the whole world. There are millions of Muslims that are not radical like these guys just as there are probably Christians that kill because of their beliefs (Hitler?)


EXACTLY! and where is it anybodys job to tell someone what to believe in?

[TidesHoss32]

Its not a job. Its people sharing different opinions:cool: Theres a difference.EXACTLY! and where is it anybodys job to tell someone what to believe in?

[Scotty doesn't know]

Not usually pronounced that way, usually spelled Qu'ran.

In everylesson in high school and my geo book in college it still had it spelled Koran. But it usually prenounced like Qu'ran.

[alfus21]

In everylesson in high school and my geo book in college it still had it spelled Koran. But it usually prenounced like Qu'ran.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qur'an

It can translate to be spelled that way(Koran) but it's actual name is the Qu'ran.

[Panther Thunder]

I don't see any problem with seeing as to why their god is not the same. They do worship the same God as what christians do they just do not believe that Jesus was the son of God or that God and Jesus are the same. While christians believe this Muslims do not. That does not mean it isn't the same god. While I do not believe everything that Islam teahces there are some things that are very similar to christianity in Islam, which only adds to the arguement that they do believe in the same god.

[Scotty doesn't know]

Wow I just got done reading all the post on here and man this thing is a lively thread lol. Tides I think you had like 40% of the post on this one lol.

[TidesHoss32]

yeah and the guy I was going head to head with, never answered my question "do you support the insurgents?"..I dont even think he got back on here. I could be mistaken though, but I know he never answered that. This thread got me a LOT OF pm's, as you could probably imagine (like I care what everybody thinks, but anyways). But I'll always be sticking to my guns on this particular subject..Wow I just got done reading all the post on here and man this thing is a lively thread lol. Tides I think you had like 40% of the post on this one lol.

[ComfortEagle]

I disagree completely with what you are saying in your first and third paragraph. Depending on what you believe in (Im not asking you by the way), they believe in the God that they believe in, and I believe in God. If you are a Christian, you have to give your soul to Jesus, the true Son of God. If this isnt what muslims agree with, then they worship a different God than I do.


Then do the Jews worship a different God than you do? That's basically the same thing.

[TidesHoss32]

dude, this debate took place in February, and I will NOT get back into it. I was threatened to be kicked off of here because of it by a couple of power driven moderators. However, Ill not change my stance on any post Ive made. If you want to know where I stand, just read the posts, because I wont go any further in it. And no, its not the same thing. Or basically. Or whatever. Then do the Jews worship a different God than you do? That's basically the same thing.

[A Blessing & A Curse]

No but the bottom line is they do not believe Jesus Christ is the son of God Belfry Justice.We need to try to tell them about Jesus.

Actually, I'm pretty sure Jesus appears in the Quran... Could be wrong.

[A Blessing & A Curse]

i'm not saying that I believe in Islam or anything but, for those of you who don't, you have absolutely no right to bash their religion. Leave it to South Park...

[Cards_10]

The Holy bible was wrote by man but the words are from God Almighty himself delievered to the writers by the Holy Spirit.This is not where the words to the Koran came from.I myself, think Lucifer,was the author of the words of this book.This is what I think to be true!!!:devilflam

I totally agree with you.

[thecavemaster]

"Do you support the insurgents?" I support no one who thinks "god" is glorified by killing human beings. When bombs drop and kill your neighbors and fathers and sisters and children, and you get angry and pick up a gun or a brick or a stone, are you an insurgent? In Nicarauga, we called them "freedom fighters." Who gets to make up the names? Because one says, "I am an American," does that mean one's labels are always correct? The fact that a person loses friends in a war zone is not a debate stopper.

[RammsteinFan92]

The Holy bible was wrote by man but the words are from God Almighty himself delievered to the writers by the Holy Spirit.This is not where the words to the Koran came from.I myself, think Lucifer,was the author of the words of this book.This is what I think to be true!!!:devilflam
you all think anything besides the bible is the devil.....it's freaking Ridiculus.....lol.........


http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u182/paolo_ramm/rammstein.gif

Rammstein Ist Wunderbar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[RammsteinFan92]

not all muslims are terrorists!!!!....lol......


_____________________________
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u182/paolo_ramm/rammstein.gif

Rammstein Ist Wunderbar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Redneck]

I didn't plan on postin anything on this subject, but Tide and couple others have said things that I woulda said. Maybe not in the same fashion, lol, but somethin along the line.

[Crossbones]

you all think anything besides the bible is the devil.....it's freaking Ridiculus.....lol.........


http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u182/paolo_ramm/rammstein.gif

Rammstein Ist Wunderbar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2 John 1:9,10
9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath the Father and the Son.
10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed.
According to God's word, it's pretty plain. If they are teaching a false doctrine, it is not of God, so it has to be of the Devil. It is not ridiculous, it is God's word, maybe one day, you will be Holy Spirit indwelled and study and show yourself approved instead of taking someone else's word for it.

[PC_You_Know]

2 John 1:9,10
9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath the Father and the Son.
10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed.
According to God's word, it's pretty plain. If they are teaching a false doctrine, it is not of God, so it has to be of the Devil. It is not ridiculous, it is God's word, maybe one day, you will be Holy Spirit indwelled and study and show yourself approved instead of taking someone else's word for it.

Amen.

[LOOKAYANNER]

After reading through this entire thread I will say it has been interesting, to say the least. A few observations from me:

The way I see it is that religion is culture driven. If an American child from a Christian family had been adopted by a Middle Eastern family as an infant, he would be a Muslim today. That's what his parents and their culture would teach him.

Regardless of what religion is discussed, it all boils down to FAITH. Muslims have to have faith that what Muhammad has said and written is a fact. Christians have to have faith that what Paul and the other Apostles wrote is fact. Jews have to have faith that the Torah is fact. Is Muhammad actually the messenger of God, or did he make it all up? Is Jesus really the Son of God, or is that story an invention of Paul and other Bibical writers? Are the Jews correct in assuming the Messiah has not yet arrived? All religions are built on one's having faith in what they have been exposed to and taught. And faith revolves around where one is born and lives. Indians are Hindu, many people of the orient are Buddahist, Middle Easterners are Muslim...some Jewish and Christian as well.
It's a matter of culture upbringing, what religious doctrines you are taught, and then faith has to take it from there.

Finally, it is ludricous for anyone to say what religion is THE ONE, and which one's are fake. How are any of us to 100% know that? All religions need 3 components to succeed: culture teachings, faith, and fear of the unknown.

[RammsteinFan92]

After reading through this entire thread I will say it has been interesting, to say the least. A few observations from me:

The way I see it is that religion is culture driven. If an American child from a Christian family had been adopted by a Middle Eastern family as an infant, he would be a Muslim today. That's what his parents and their culture would teach him.

Regardless of what religion is discussed, it all boils down to FAITH. Muslims have to have faith that what Muhammad has said and written is a fact. Christians have to have faith that what Paul and the other Apostles wrote is fact. Jews have to have faith that the Torah is fact. Is Muhammad actually the messenger of God, or did he make it all up? Is Jesus really the Son of God, or is that story an invention of Paul and other Bibical writers? Are the Jews correct in assuming the Messiah has not yet arrived? All religions are built on one's having faith in what they have been exposed to and taught. And faith revolves around where one is born and lives. Indians are Hindu, many people of the orient are Buddahist, Middle Easterners are Muslim...some Jewish and Christian as well.
It's a matter of culture upbringing, what religious doctrines you are taught, and then faith has to take it from there.

Finally, it is ludricous for anyone to say what religion is THE ONE, and which one's are fake. How are any of us to 100% know that? All religions need 3 components to succeed: culture teachings, faith, and fear of the unknown.
I Totally Absoloutley Agree With You 100%.....you can't debunk a reliegion because nobody can prove theirs is right!

[TidesHoss32]

I Totally Absoloutley Agree With You 100%.....you can't debunk a reliegion because nobody can prove theirs is right!puhleeze..try sticking up for their religion when theyre flying airplanes through your
living room..

[thecavemaster]

puhleeze..try sticking up for their religion when theyre flying airplanes through your
living room..

There are at least some number of "christians" who are willing to blow up clinics where abortions are performed, killing nurses and doctors, and at least one group of "christians" who picket at the funerals of soldiers, saying that "god" is showing judgment. By sticking up for christianity, are you sticking up for them? Or, like most everybody else, do you argue in such a way as to never look in the mirror at your own points of view?

[ronald_reagan]

There are at least some number of "christians" who are willing to blow up clinics where abortions are performed, killing nurses and doctors, and at least one group of "christians" who picket at the funerals of soldiers, saying that "god" is showing judgment. By sticking up for christianity, are you sticking up for them? Or, like most everybody else, do you argue in such a way as to never look in the mirror at your own points of view?

First of all.... this arguement was flawed from the very start.

Christians blow up abortion clinics because of defending the defenseless. I disagree with it.

But... Islamic terrorists, killing innocent men, women, and children insides of planes and buildings is not a DEFENSE mechanism in action. Its an act of cowardness. Its equal to the abortionists. Killing the weak.

Just because you're not a christian, and have no understanding of Josephus's (the jewish historian who you have no clue about in another thread)... doesn't mean you have to bash christians.

Now... carry on. You're becoming a source of entertainment. :thumpsup:

[ComfortEagle]

This has to be one of the most intolerant and ignorant threads I have read.