I got a Question.

[Super_de]

Since all these Tubby haters are out here. Since duke lost double digit games this season, if Duke lost double digit games next year wouldnt you all say to fire Coach k? Since its the same way with Tubby, Tubby has had 2 bad years and yet you people think he's the worst coach you've seen.

[bizmark]

2 bad years? hes lost in the 2nd round 3 of the last 4 years. coach k has won multiple national championships and this was the 1st time in 8 years that duke didnt make it to the sweet sixteen. real big difference there super de. if u want to take a look at all of tubbys great accomplishments then look at the "Tubby Smith breaking records" thread. you are very much not sane to compare tubby to kschscefski (sp?). i guess you dont know that the cats used to be a contender for the national championship year in and year out. that being said, what is wrong with UK right now, in your opinion?

[Super_de]

Jesus Christ, Kentucky won 2 championships since 1967 and you think that there some great team. Tubby has won 1 championship and 5 sec tournys. Powerhouses from the past isnt going to win every single year like they used to. Look at Florida they are now a good team and has a good coach, a new team will eventually start there own dyansty.

Plus, you think that Kentuckys recruiting has been horrible since tubby, he has 2 bad years of recruiting also. Tubby cant run out there and make the players hit the shots can he?

[PLAYBOY5]

Uk...SUPERFAN, THEY HAVE WON 3 National Championships since 1967!...1978/1996/1998.. No he cannot make them hit the shots and is exactly why I ask myself..WHY and HOW DID SHERAY THOMAS/BOBBY PERRY/ORBZUT/CARTER GET RECRUITED TO UK..**** EVEN A D-1 SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[alfus21]

Uk...SUPERFAN, THEY HAVE WON 3 National Championships since 1967!...1978/1996/1998.. No he cannot make them hit the shots and is exactly why I ask myself..WHY and HOW DID SHERAY THOMAS/BOBBY PERRY/ORBZUT/CARTER GET RECRUITED TO UK..**** EVEN A D-1 SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your argument against Perry doesn't hold much water anymore. He finished the season very strong and looked like he could play for anybody. Carter had offers from the likes of UNC along with UK. So again. Not a strong argument.

[PLAYBOY5]

As 99% of BGR members feels about yours with Tubby! But hey, you will always have 1 member agree with you!

[bizmark]

first off, ucla won it in 67 but nice try tho. but its actually 3 since '67 and they were in '78, '96, and '98. how does the most wins in ncaa history, most tournament appearences, most wins in tournament history and 2nd most titles in ncaa history sound to ya??? yeah that might just make some of us THINK that uk is a great team, the best ever. uk used to be a powerhouse but i geuss u didnt know that did ya? it used to be florida and those teams lookin up to us. you are no fan if you are content with sitting back and watching the florida gators out of all teams build a dynasty. so yes they are a great team and no you are not a fan. u should move to gainsville. but hey, thanks for playin

by the way... when was the lst time uk went to a final four? know what ur talkin about before u say somethin u know nothin about there super_gator

[DevilsWin]

Jesus Christ, Kentucky won 2 championships since 1967 and you think that there some great team. Tubby has won 1 championship and 5 sec tournys. Powerhouses from the past isnt going to win every single year like they used to. Look at Florida they are now a good team and has a good coach, a new team will eventually start there own dyansty.

Plus, you think that Kentuckys recruiting has been horrible since tubby, he has 2 bad years of recruiting also. Tubby cant run out there and make the players hit the shots can he?
Hey pal How many national titles does Florida have in Basketball? Kentucky has 7
Oh and BTW we have more All American's than ALL SEC Teams Combined.

[Amun-Ra]

Your argument against Perry doesn't hold much water anymore. He finished the season very strong and looked like he could play for anybody. Carter had offers from the likes of UNC along with UK. So again. Not a strong argument.
yes it is a good arguement. Both players might have been looked at but are they quality? Perry was a bust. WOW he has 3 good games to finish off the year! where has he been before that???? he has been missing wide open shots, throwing the ball away and playing like he doesn't belong. Cater??? please. he is tall and thats about it, thus far.

[PLAYBOY5]

Thank You Amun-Ru!

[Beef]

I don't understand the recruiting problems really. I mean aren't there 3 High School All-Americans in the Sophomore class right now? You can only bring in so many star players. Yes, he missed Lofton in that class, but IMO, he would not have gotten playing time over those that are on the team so his skills would not have been seen.

I mean getting some of the top players in the nation doesn't seem like a recruiting failure. But then again.....

[corndog23]

yes it is a good arguement. Both players might have been looked at but are they quality? Perry was a bust. WOW he has 3 good games to finish off the year! where has he been before that???? he has been missing wide open shots, throwing the ball away and playing like he doesn't belong. Cater??? please. he is tall and thats about it, thus far.

No, it's not a good argument. Bobby Perry showcased his skills on the biggest stage in sports today for TWO years in a row, i dont care who you are, the guy is clutch. We have seen maybe 20 minutes of Jared Carter in TWO years and you automatically assume he is garbage and doesnt deserve to be here. You guys are ridiculous. Acie Law IV was garbage his first two years at A&M, but im sure you guys dont watch enough basketball to understand that players actually DO improve...

[moofer]

Ah yes improvement. It does happen. everyone doesn't come in a star, but a lot of times some of those guys do leave great college basketball players.

[thecavemaster]

No, it's not a good argument. Bobby Perry showcased his skills on the biggest stage in sports today for TWO years in a row, i dont care who you are, the guy is clutch. We have seen maybe 20 minutes of Jared Carter in TWO years and you automatically assume he is garbage and doesnt deserve to be here. You guys are ridiculous. Acie Law IV was garbage his first two years at A&M, but im sure you guys dont watch enough basketball to understand that players actually DO improve...

Are you, Corndog, suggesting that Bobby Perry
belongs in the same conversation with Julian
Wright, with Rashaun Terry, with Cory Brewer?
The talent level at UK is DOWN, DOWN, DOWN.
Tennessee has four freshman in their top 8...
they are in the Sweet 16. In the elite six
or seven programs, freshman and sophomores are
playing big minutes and winning. UK is no longer
in the talent pool of those six or seven programs.
If you cannot see this, then you may watch a lot
of basketball, but you cannot evaluate talent.

[14thregionallstate]

First Of All Bobby Perry Has Played Great His Senior Year......came In As A Freshman.....not Too Good But Has Built Since Then And He Is Leaving As A Great Player.......tubby's Recruiting Is Not Awful.....if No One Remembers We Had 3 All Americans That Signed With Us In 2004...including Rajon Rondo,randolph Morris And Joe Crawford......morris And Crawford Was Both Top 10 All American Recruits.....you Can Not Expect Uk To Be A Powerhouse Every Year......it Just Dont Happen Like That.......other Teams Are Making Dynasty's And Uk Has Had 2 Bad Years....so U Just Want To Throw Tubby Out??????i Dont Think So...not Gonna Happen......uk Has An Ok Recruiting Class Coming In Next Year....and I See This Uk Team Being A 3 Or 4 Seed In The Ncaa Tourney Next Year.......for One Reason Because Tubby Will Still Be Here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[thecavemaster]

First Of All Bobby Perry Has Played Great His Senior Year......came In As A Freshman.....not Too Good But Has Built Since Then And He Is Leaving As A Great Player.......tubby's Recruiting Is Not Awful.....if No One Remembers We Had 3 All Americans That Signed With Us In 2004...including Rajon Rondo,randolph Morris And Joe Crawford......morris And Crawford Was Both Top 10 All American Recruits.....you Can Not Expect Uk To Be A Powerhouse Every Year......it Just Dont Happen Like That.......other Teams Are Making Dynasty's And Uk Has Had 2 Bad Years....so U Just Want To Throw Tubby Out??????i Dont Think So...not Gonna Happen......uk Has An Ok Recruiting Class Coming In Next Year....and I See This Uk Team Being A 3 Or 4 Seed In The Ncaa Tourney Next Year.......for One Reason Because Tubby Will Still Be Here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Of course, no commentator on college basketball
refers to Bobby Perry as a "great player." Of
course, Rajon Rondo could not shoot. Of course,
Joe Crawford has little quickness. Of course,
"it just don't happen like that"... need I
say more?

[moofer]

Of course, no commentator on college basketball
refers to Bobby Perry as a "great player." Of
course, Rajon Rondo could not shoot. Of course,
Joe Crawford has little quickness. Of course,
"it just don't happen like that"... need I
say more?

Yes, i have head several commentators refer to Bobby Perry as a great player

[braves_fan_10]

You know what is sad? Im starting to hate most Kentucky fans more than i am Duke, and Florida fans. Because most UK fans just want to ramble on about how a 10 loss season is aweful, and how our coach sucks, and how our players suck.

[FBALL]

UK fans and Yankee fans are the most spoiled bunch of people in the country. 99% of them don't have a clue what they are talking about. It is best to just ignore them.

[bizmark]

the players dont suck tubby just dont know how to coach them. and a 10 loss season is awful by UKs standards what dont u understand about that? why can u not understand that uk is the greatest prgram in ncaa history and it hurts us to see them playing like they are. im glad that you like 10 loss seasons and second round losses. im glad you like to see tubby not be able to coach good players. in kentucky we dont care about other dynastys. we dont care if other teams ate building dynastys because we are the only team that matters to us. i wish you had common sense. tubby is not getting the job done.

[FBALL]

I love how people think Tubby Smith can't coach. The problem with Tubby Smith is that he is not Rick Pitino. Now people want some cheap Pitino clone like Calapari or Donovan. Tubby has maintained a standered that has kept UK at the top of college basketball until the last couple of years. One down cycle and the people that have never accepted him are calling for his head again. If it wasn't sad it would be funny.

[jammin' jamey]

Everybody wants to call coach "Ten-Loss" Tubby...What about 14-consecutive 20 win seasons between Tulsa, Georgia and Kentucky?

[Tomcat68]

Everybody wants to call coach "Ten-Loss" Tubby...What about 14-consecutive 20 win seasons between Tulsa, Georgia and Kentucky?

If I recall correctly, they said there were over 100 Division I basketball teams who won over 20 games this season. 20 wins just isn't what it used to be. 25 wins is closer to the standard needed nowadays. With the addition of so many tournaments, teams are playing 30-32 games in the regular season on average. Winning 2/3 of your games just isn't enough even if you get a 20 win season. 4/5 to 5/6 is more appropriate for an elite program.

[jammin' jamey]

If I recall correctly, they said there were over 100 Division I basketball teams who won over 20 games this season. 20 wins just isn't what it used to be. 25 wins is closer to the standard needed nowadays. With the addition of so many tournaments, teams are playing 30-32 games in the regular season on average. Winning 2/3 of your games just isn't enough even if you get a 20 win season. 4/5 to 5/6 is more appropriate for an elite program.

That's true. But how many of those programs have won 20 plus games for the last 14 consecutive years? Better yet, how many coaches have won 20 plus games during that same span? Duke hasn't done it (12 consecutive years of 20+ wins) and North Carolina hasn't.

One season of multiple teams achieving 20 wins isn't a measuring stick to me.

[thecavemaster]

UK fans and Yankee fans are the most spoiled bunch of people in the country. 99% of them don't have a clue what they are talking about. It is best to just ignore them.

Why is it when someone doesn't agree with you that you
immediately say they don't know what they are talking
about? True enough, Yankee fans and Kentucky
fans expect excellence, as do North Carolina fans,
where Matt Dougherty was shown the door to bring
in Roy Williams. Of course, North Carolina fans
are spoiled too...and when powers that be sensed
Dougherty was letting the program slip, they did
not wait. Now look at North Carolina's talent
pool. Yes, yes...ignore reality, stick your head
in the sand...stick in your thumb and pull out a
plumb and say, "What a good boy am I."

[thecavemaster]

Yes, i have head several commentators refer to Bobby Perry as a great player

Uh...Pee Wee Herman does not count
as an authentic college basketball
commentator...

[jammin' jamey]

Why is it when someone doesn't agree with you that you
immediately say they don't know what they are talking
about? True enough, Yankee fans and Kentucky
fans expect excellence, as do North Carolina fans,
where Matt Dougherty was shown the door to bring
in Roy Williams. Of course, North Carolina fans
are spoiled too...and when powers that be sensed
Dougherty was letting the program slip, they did
not wait. Now look at North Carolina's talent
pool. Yes, yes...ignore reality, stick your head
in the sand...stick in your thumb and pull out a
plumb and say, "What a good boy am I."

How long had Doherty been at UNC before being let go, 3 years? I don't think UNC had near the investment in Doherty that UK has in Tubby. It was gonna take someone like Roy Williams or Larry Brown to be accepted by UNC fans & alumni after Dean Smith called it quits. D. Smith arranged for Guthridge to take over since he had been Smith's assistant for ages and they wanted Williams before they hired Doherty if I remember correctly.

[golfman42]

Guys we are going to have another weak class coming in this year. Face the facts we are not getting Lucas or Patterson. Stewart may turn out to be decent and I dont think Williams will be a factor at all (another orbzut). Even if these guys are decent Tubby wont play them (just like stevenson and harris). I really think Stevenson could've been a Brandan Wright or something like him but Tubby wouldnt play him even though he had 7 blocks in his first game. But I look forward to another 10 loss season next year.

[jammin' jamey]

Even if these guys are decent Tubby wont play them (just like stevenson and harris).

I not disagreeing with you over weak recruiting classes but what makes Stevenson or Harris any better than anyone else Tubby has recruited recently? Would you have played Harris over Crawford/Bradley/Meeks? Would you have played Stevenson over Perry/Thomas in crucial situations?

[GB1]

I just don't see a lot of UK players improving much over their careers anymore. Crawford & Bradley have regressed from their freshmen years. Stevenson has raw talent but he still looked lost at the end of the season & didn't play much. Who has any idea if Carter will ever pan out, we've seen so little of him. Las year Sims looked impressive in some games before SEC play, got in the doghouse, & was never seen again. The days of watching guys like Fitch & Daniels improve to become really good college players seem to be over at UK.

[SportsFan80]

Who in their right mind would call Perry a great player. He waits till tourney time to start playing and u call him great. . Super De, you're right when u say Tubby cant run out there and make the players hit the shots, he shouldnt have to, but he should at least learn how to recruit so he wont have to do things like that. We know UK has only won 3 championships since 67, but also no other team has been dominate either, its not like we expect them to win it every **** year, thats impossible. Its hard enough to win back to back championships as it is. The last team to do that was Duke, and I honestly believe it will stay that way and no other team will win back to back titles. We just want UK to be the historic team it was before, winning the SEC on an annual basis and making a deep run in the NCAA tournament, thats all we want, is that too much to ask. I think not. But it wont happen as long as Tubby is at UK.

[FBALL]

Why is it when someone doesn't agree with you that you
immediately say they don't know what they are talking
about? True enough, Yankee fans and Kentucky
fans expect excellence, as do North Carolina fans,
where Matt Dougherty was shown the door to bring
in Roy Williams. Of course, North Carolina fans
are spoiled too...and when powers that be sensed
Dougherty was letting the program slip, they did
not wait. Now look at North Carolina's talent
pool. Yes, yes...ignore reality, stick your head
in the sand...stick in your thumb and pull out a
plumb and say, "What a good boy am I."
Actually I was agreeing with "Braves_fan_10" in the previous post. I never disagreed with anybody specifically. Just made a generalization that I feel is completely accurate.

Dougherty never was given a chance. The spoiled Tar Heel following never accepted him either. By the way. Wasn't it Dougherty's players that won the championship. Good ole Roy just took over a bunch that anybody could have won with. At least that is the argument you would get from UK fans. It all sounds pretty irrational to me.

[Armchair QB]

Since all these Tubby haters are out here. Since duke lost double digit games this season, if Duke lost double digit games next year wouldnt you all say to fire Coach k? Since its the same way with Tubby, Tubby has had 2 bad years and yet you people think he's the worst coach you've seen.

When Tubby can match resumes with Coach K then maybe this thread would be valid. Until then Tubby's got some work to do.

[thecavemaster]

I just don't see a lot of UK players improving much over their careers anymore. Crawford & Bradley have regressed from their freshmen years. Stevenson has raw talent but he still looked lost at the end of the season & didn't play much. Who has any idea if Carter will ever pan out, we've seen so little of him. Las year Sims looked impressive in some games before SEC play, got in the doghouse, & was never seen again. The days of watching guys like Fitch & Daniels improve to become really good college players seem to be over at UK.

"Stevenson has raw talent..." Four of Tennessee's
top eight are freshmen. They are not "raw." They
are in the Sweet 16...when recruited, they were ready
to go for top notch competition. At elite programs,
this is the case across the country. Top level
recruits improve to become All Americans, All Conference
performers, not successful role players. If a
Fortune 500 company has a lot invested in a CEO, but
the Board of Directors notices a pattern of decline,
and hears from a lot of shareholders, they speak with
the CEO. Then, if things don't improve, they take
action. Tubby Smith was given the voluntary opportunity
last year to make changes. He hired a strength and
conditioning coach. That was it. It's time for
a change. Period.

[rallo316]

not the same Duke is not the winniest program in the country.

[thecavemaster]

Actually I was agreeing with "Braves_fan_10" in the previous post. I never disagreed with anybody specifically. Just made a generalization that I feel is completely accurate.

Dougherty never was given a chance. The spoiled Tar Heel following never accepted him either. By the way. Wasn't it Dougherty's players that won the championship. Good ole Roy just took over a bunch that anybody could have won with. At least that is the argument you would get from UK fans. It all sounds pretty irrational to me.

Roy Williams, as long as he is at North Carolina,
will put a team on the floor with tremendous
athleticism; they will NOT win a championship
every year; they will NOT be in the final four
every year; they will NOT win the ACC every
year. BUT, they will be in the hunt for all
of those things nine out of ten years. I think
that the term "Tubby hater" is unfair for a lot
of loyal UK fans who like Tubby as a man...but
who think the UK program has sort of tidal waved
his overall competence to CEO an elite program.
That's not being a "Tubby hater." It is looking
at the evidence, the direction, the recruiting pool,
the stiffening competition and concluding that UK
needs new leadership.

[FBALL]

Roy Williams, as long as he is at North Carolina,
will put a team on the floor with tremendous
athleticism; they will NOT win a championship
every year; they will NOT be in the final four
every year; they will NOT win the ACC every
year. BUT, they will be in the hunt for all
of those things nine out of ten years. I think
that the term "Tubby hater" is unfair for a lot
of loyal UK fans who like Tubby as a man...but
who think the UK program has sort of tidal waved
his overall competence to CEO an elite program.
That's not being a "Tubby hater." It is looking
at the evidence, the direction, the recruiting pool,
the stiffening competition and concluding that UK
needs new leadership.

Roy Williams record in big games and NCAA tournaments is not that good. Outside of one season his teams have underachieved. Tubby Smith has had two sub par years by UK standards. But in his career Tubby's teams have been much better at competing for Championships than Roy's. One good recruiting class can change things in a hurry. And for the record I never used the term "Tubby hater".

[Phoenix]

I not disagreeing with you over weak recruiting classes but what makes Stevenson or Harris any better than anyone else Tubby has recruited recently? Would you have played Harris over Crawford/Bradley/Meeks? Would you have played Stevenson over Perry/Thomas in crucial situations?

Maybe not Perry, but definately Thomas. He had no business being in a Kentucky uniform, much less in the game, especially in a close one with the game on the line. I'll never understand Tubby's thinking on the playing time Thomas got.

[jammin' jamey]

Maybe not Perry, but definately Thomas. He had no business being in a Kentucky uniform, much less in the game, especially in a close one with the game on the line. I'll never understand Tubby's thinking on the playing time Thomas got.

Thomas did a lot of little things that don't show up in the scoreboard like using his toughness to be aggressive inside. I would agree with you though and add that Thomas was one of those middle-of-the-road projects that didn't turn out like you had hoped. Thomas missed most of his sophomore year because of a life threatening injury, so keep that in mind too. I don't think Thomas ever played to his potential and again was one of those projects that never materialized.

[Super_de]

Thomas did a lot of little things that don't show up in the scoreboard like using his toughness to be aggressive inside. I would agree with you though and add that Thomas was one of those middle-of-the-road projects that didn't turn out like you had hoped. Thomas missed most of his sophomore year because of a life threatening injury, so keep that in mind too. I don't think Thomas ever played to his potential and again was one of those projects that never materialized.

Great post, Thomas did do alot of little things that helped Uk win this year, and of course he did some bad things to, but for the most part everyone makes mistakes. Yes thomas did have a life-threating injury.