Reds Trades Thread: Post all Reds Trades Here...

[More Cowbell]

As has been reported on several news sites, the Reds traded Kyle Lohse today to the Philadephia Phillies for minor league pitcher Matt Maloney.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2954811

Apparently, Maloney was a decent prospect in the Philly organization, not a top-shelf guy but still a solid player. I agree completely with this trade, this was probably the easiest decision Krivsky was going to have, what with Lohse set to enter free agency this winter where the team would lose him for nothing.

[Scotty doesn't know]

As has been reported on several news sites, the Reds traded Kyle Lohse today to the Philadephia Phillies for minor league pitcher Matt Maloney.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2954811

Apparently, Maloney was a decent prospect in the Philly organization, not a top-shelf guy but still a solid player. I agree completely with this trade, this was probably the easiest decision Krivsky was going to have, what with Lohse set to enter free agency this winter where the team would lose him for nothing.

Loshe was a good pick up when Krivsky was making all of the deals last year but he just became too inconsistent. I agree that this was the best decision for the Reds.

[jammin' jamey]

I agree completely with this trade, this was probably the easiest decision Krivsky was going to have, what with Lohse set to enter free agency this winter where the team would lose him for nothing.

By far, his easiest decision. A no-brainer like you said with Lohse set for FA.

[More Cowbell]

I am shocked that there are not more Reds trades to report on at this point.

I think Krivsky really dropped the ball somewhat. I can live with not trading Dunn or Griffey because I expected that other teams would not offer fair value for either one. But why is Jeff Conine still with the team? He is obviously not in their plans for next year (he has said he will likely retire), so why not give him one last shot at a title? I'm sure some playoff contender would have loved to add him to their bench, the Reds really should have shipped him off for whatever the best offer was.

[Scotty doesn't know]

I am shocked that there are not more Reds trades to report on at this point.

I think Krivsky really dropped the ball somewhat. I can live with not trading Dunn or Griffey because I expected that other teams would not offer fair value for either one. But why is Jeff Conine still with the team? He is obviously not in their plans for next year (he has said he will likely retire), so why not give him one last shot at a title? I'm sure some playoff contender would have loved to add him to their bench, the Reds really should have shipped him off for whatever the best offer was.

I am just hoping that they will trade Hatteburg in the offseason. He is a solid , solid player we should get a good prospect or a decent pitcher out of him. They need to especially with Votto coming up.

[jammin' jamey]

I am shocked that there are not more Reds trades to report on at this point.

I think Krivsky really dropped the ball somewhat. I can live with not trading Dunn or Griffey because I expected that other teams would not offer fair value for either one. But why is Jeff Conine still with the team? He is obviously not in their plans for next year (he has said he will likely retire), so why not give him one last shot at a title? I'm sure some playoff contender would have loved to add him to their bench, the Reds really should have shipped him off for whatever the best offer was.

Don't be surprised to see Conine/Hatteberg/Stanton pass through waivers and possibly dealt before September 1st, which is the deadline for players to be traded who would be eligible for a postseason roster. Conine was traded that way last year.

I wasn't surprised too much about Dunn, considering how his contract is structured and the fact that Reds ownership is giving GM Krivsky some heat about pulling too many strings and trades. I'm all for keeping Dunn, if the payroll is raised to sign more quality starting pitching. The Reds will gamble that their youngsters in the pen will get better. Also, don't forget about the Jorge Cantu trade the Reds made, which went totally unheard in the media. He's a 25-year kid who's knocked in over 100 RBI's. Nobody on the Reds roster 25 or younger can stake claim to that.

Again I'm guessing, but the Reds feel they are only a few bullpen/1 more solid starting pitcher away from truly contending in a weak NL Central. Thus, they haven't blew up the roster. If the Reds don't raise the payroll in the offseason and only pickup Dunn's $13 million option, they will conduct a fire sale at this time next year unless they are winning and the key will be the bullpen improving.

[Scotty doesn't know]

Don't be surprised to see Conine/Hatteberg/Stanton pass through waivers and possibly dealt before September 1st, which is the deadline for players to be traded who would be eligible for a postseason roster. Conine was traded that way last year.

I wasn't surprised too much about Dunn, considering how his contract is structured and the fact that Reds ownership is giving GM Krivsky some heat about pulling too many strings and trades. I'm all for keeping Dunn, if the payroll is raised to sign more quality starting pitching. The Reds will gamble that their youngsters in the pen will get better. Also, don't forget about the Jorge Cantu trade the Reds made, which went totally unheard in the media. He's a 25-year kid who's knocked in over 100 RBI's. Nobody on the Reds roster 25 or younger can stake claim to that.

Again I'm guessing, but the Reds feel they are only a few bullpen/1 more solid starting pitcher away from truly contending in a weak NL Central. Thus, they haven't blew up the roster. If the Reds don't raise the payroll in the offseason and only pickup Dunn's $13 million option, they will conduct a fire sale at this time next year unless they are winning and the key will be the bullpen improving.

Can you expand a little on that trade? You are right I have not heard that one. BTW I agree about the players possibly going through waivers but I am still ALL for TRADING Dunn.

[jammin' jamey]

Can you expand a little on that trade? You are right I have not heard that one. BTW I agree about the players possibly going through waivers but I am still ALL for TRADING Dunn.

Sure...http://cbs.sportsline.com/mlb/story/10273312/rss

The Reds got Cantu for Brian Shackleford, a bum reliever who spent time with the Reds last year until he was caught with an underage girl in Milwaukee, and reliever Calvin Medlock, who has been spliting time with Louisville and Chattanooga this year. The Reds also received outfielder Shaun Cumberland, who was hitting .246 with six home runs and 34 RBI for Double-A Montgomery.

Cantu had a breakout season in 2005, suffered injuries last season and didn't make the club out of spring training this year. Like I said earlier, he's only 25 and has already enjoyed a season where he hit 28 homeruns, drove in 117 with a .286 batting average in his first full season with the Rays. This year, he's hitting .207 with 4 RBI's.

These are the kinds of deals (see Josh Hamilton and Brandon Phillips) that Krivsky likes to make and by looking at previous success, you have to feel good about it. The Reds weren't losing anything with what they gave the Rays.

[More Cowbell]

Don't be surprised to see Conine/Hatteberg/Stanton pass through waivers and possibly dealt before September 1st, which is the deadline for players to be traded who would be eligible for a postseason roster. Conine was traded that way last year.

I wasn't surprised too much about Dunn, considering how his contract is structured and the fact that Reds ownership is giving GM Krivsky some heat about pulling too many strings and trades. I'm all for keeping Dunn, if the payroll is raised to sign more quality starting pitching. The Reds will gamble that their youngsters in the pen will get better. Also, don't forget about the Jorge Cantu trade the Reds made, which went totally unheard in the media. He's a 25-year kid who's knocked in over 100 RBI's. Nobody on the Reds roster 25 or younger can stake claim to that.

Again I'm guessing, but the Reds feel they are only a few bullpen/1 more solid starting pitcher away from truly contending in a weak NL Central. Thus, they haven't blew up the roster. If the Reds don't raise the payroll in the offseason and only pickup Dunn's $13 million option, they will conduct a fire sale at this time next year unless they are winning and the key will be the bullpen improving.

I am actually happy they didn't trade away Dunn, I think he can be a big factor next year. If they had been blown away with an offer, that's one thing, but that wasn't going to happen given his contract stipulation that would have basically made him a 2-month rental. So, keep him and exercise the option for next year. 13 million isn't too much for a good power hitter who gets on base as frequently as he does.

Where I felt he dropped the ball was in not trading guys that don't figure into the future. Conine, definitely, and Stanton too. Both of those guys should have been shipped off for whatever was offered. Hatteburg is a good player and I like him, but unless the Reds do not feel Votto is ready then it makes no sense to keep him either. I personally think that there's nothing left to prove for Votto in AAA ball, next year it's time for him to either sink or swim with the big club. Since he's also a lefty, you couldn't even platoon him with Hatteburg, who's also a lefty. Hatteburg is having one of his better years as a part-time starter, and he would have been a great addition to a contending team. I can't imagine there weren't offers, so Krivsky must have been holding out for more.

As far as Cantu, I had heard about the trade, but I didn't post it on here since it didn't involve any current major-leaguers. I agree that Krivsky's trying to catch lightning in a bottle like he did with Phillips, but I don't know where you play him in the infield. Obviously, Phillips isn't going anywhere, Gonzo is on a big contract, and I still think it's too early to give up on Encarnacion. First may be open next year, but what about Votto? Maybe they're thinking of a Cantu/Votto platoon, especially if they think Votto can't hit lefties well enough to play everyday.

[Scotty doesn't know]

Sure...http://cbs.sportsline.com/mlb/story/10273312/rss

The Reds got Cantu for Brian Shackleford, a bum reliever who spent time with the Reds last year until he was caught with an underage girl in Milwaukee, and reliever Calvin Medlock, who has been spliting time with Louisville and Chattanooga this year. The Reds also received outfielder Shaun Cumberland, who was hitting .246 with six home runs and 34 RBI for Double-A Montgomery.

Cantu had a breakout season in 2005, suffered injuries last season and didn't make the club out of spring training this year. Like I said earlier, he's only 25 and has already enjoyed a season where he hit 28 homeruns, drove in 117 with a .286 batting average in his first full season with the Rays. This year, he's hitting .207 with 4 RBI's.

These are the kinds of deals (see Josh Hamilton and Brandon Phillips) that Krivsky likes to make and by looking at previous success, you have to feel good about it. The Reds weren't losing anything with what they gave the Rays.

Thanks man! I do feel pretty good about that.

[jammin' jamey]

I am actually happy they didn't trade away Dunn, I think he can be a big factor next year. If they had been blown away with an offer, that's one thing, but that wasn't going to happen given his contract stipulation that would have basically made him a 2-month rental. So, keep him and exercise the option for next year. 13 million isn't too much for a good power hitter who gets on base as frequently as he does.

Where I felt he dropped the ball was in not trading guys that don't figure into the future. Conine, definitely, and Stanton too. Both of those guys should have been shipped off for whatever was offered. Hatteburg is a good player and I like him, but unless the Reds do not feel Votto is ready then it makes no sense to keep him either. I personally think that there's nothing left to prove for Votto in AAA ball, next year it's time for him to either sink or swim with the big club. Since he's also a lefty, you couldn't even platoon him with Hatteburg, who's also a lefty. Hatteburg is having one of his better years as a part-time starter, and he would have been a great addition to a contending team. I can't imagine there weren't offers, so Krivsky must have been holding out for more.

As far as Cantu, I had heard about the trade, but I didn't post it on here since it didn't involve any current major-leaguers. I agree that Krivsky's trying to catch lightning in a bottle like he did with Phillips, but I don't know where you play him in the infield. Obviously, Phillips isn't going anywhere, Gonzo is on a big contract, and I still think it's too early to give up on Encarnacion. First may be open next year, but what about Votto? Maybe they're thinking of a Cantu/Votto platoon, especially if they think Votto can't hit lefties well enough to play everyday.

I'm with you on the Dunn situation. I wouldn't trade him just for the sake of dumping him. Maybe Krivsky was asking too much for a summer rental? I know $13 million isn't much, but you can't go into the FA market and think you are going to land significant talent in terms of starting pitching/bullpen help and throw that kind of money at Dunn as well and not raise the payroll.

Cantu is an interesting situation. Maybe the ownership is wanting to put some pressure on Encarnacion? Either way, if Cantu finds his swing again, he or whoever he takes the place of will make the bench stronger. I don't think Cantu platoons at 1B.

I really think Votto will be called up in September. Conine and maybe Stanton will go through a waiver trade to somebody. Hatteberg is the team's best hitter - he's staying. Good insurance to help with Votto at 1B. Don't forget about Jay Bruce either. He's made the jump to Louisville. He may get a good look come spring training. And the Reds are going to run Dumatrait, Livingston, Ramirez out there to see what they have and if they can contribute next season. Right now, I'd take Livingston over Belisle as the 5th starter.

[jammin' jamey]

Got this from John Fay, beat writer for the Reds...http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/redsinsider/2007/08/very-interesting.asp

Remember, that talk about Adam Dunn being traded to the Nationals? I've been told the deal was pretty far along when the Nationals pulled the plug on it.

No explanation was given why. But here’s one theory I heard: Jim Bowden never intended to do make a deal. He just strung the Reds along to waste their time. The Reds do still have a grievance pending against the Nationals over the Gary Majewksi episode.

[More Cowbell]

I'm with you on the Dunn situation. I wouldn't trade him just for the sake of dumping him. Maybe Krivsky was asking too much for a summer rental? I know $13 million isn't much, but you can't go into the FA market and think you are going to land significant talent in terms of starting pitching/bullpen help and throw that kind of money at Dunn as well and not raise the payroll.

Cantu is an interesting situation. Maybe the ownership is wanting to put some pressure on Encarnacion? Either way, if Cantu finds his swing again, he or whoever he takes the place of will make the bench stronger. I don't think Cantu platoons at 1B.

I really think Votto will be called up in September. Conine and maybe Stanton will go through a waiver trade to somebody. Hatteberg is the team's best hitter - he's staying. Good insurance to help with Votto at 1B. Don't forget about Jay Bruce either. He's made the jump to Louisville. He may get a good look come spring training. And the Reds are going to run Dumatrait, Livingston, Ramirez out there to see what they have and if they can contribute next season. Right now, I'd take Livingston over Belisle as the 5th starter.

I'm glad someone else sees it my way on the Dunn no-trade. It is just a really unusual situation, one where he was actually more valuable to the Reds (who can keep him in 2008 at a reasonable rate) than to any other team (who would have just had him for 2 months). Better to keep him and get the benefit of his 40 HR's and 100 RBI's than to give him away for nothing.

As far as Cantu, I will agree that he is talented, but I still don't know where he plays. I guess they could be trying to push EE, but I really think he just needs more time, and the club has always been too quick to demote him whenever he has a bad stretch. Maybe if Cantu shows he can hit, EE becomes trade bait?

Finally, I still think trading Hatteberg would have made the team better, because I think he is one guy that would have fetched a solid prospect in return. He doesn't seem to fit into the plans for next year, unless the club feels Votto is not ready to start full-time. I think Hatteberg is too talented to waste sitting on the bench all year, he would be more valuable to the team as a trading chip to bring in some bullpen help.

Finally, I would agree about Conine and Stanton, they should both pass through waivers. Conine is old, while Stanton is old and makes too much money. I would not mind if the club practically gave Stanton away. If someone made a waiver claim on him, just go ahead and stick them with his contract.

[thecavemaster]

I wish the Reds would go after some sinker ball
type pitchers in the mold of Brandon Webb, not
that we could get him...but minor leaguers or
available senior circuiters who consistently
keep the ball sinking, down in the zone. Great
America does NOT reward up in the strike zone
pitchers!

[More Cowbell]

I wish the Reds would go after some sinker ball
type pitchers in the mold of Brandon Webb, not
that we could get him...but minor leaguers or
available senior circuiters who consistently
keep the ball sinking, down in the zone. Great
America does NOT reward up in the strike zone
pitchers!

Exactly why signing Eric Milton 3 years ago was one of the dumbest front-office decisions made by the Reds in the last 20 years. :(

[thecavemaster]

You said that right!

[More Cowbell]

Milton would probably win Cy Young if he pitched In Petco Park!

Well, okay, maybe that's going a bit too far... LOL

[thecavemaster]

"Eric Milton on the mound...he winds, he kicks...here's a long fly ball,
way back, it could be, it might be...it is...."

[More Cowbell]

"Eric Milton on the mound...he winds, he kicks...here's a long fly ball,
way back, it could be, it might be...it is...."

Heard that way too much last 3 years... :(

It's kinda funny, I went to a Reds game the first week of the season back in 2005, and it happened to be Milton's first game sine he signed with the team in the offseason. He had just given up his second long homer to the Mets, and this drunk guy a couple rows down from me turned and said, "We'll be seeing a whole lotta that this year!" I thought it was funny at the time, but it's amazing that drunks do have the power of prophecy...

[thecavemaster]

Heard that way too much last 3 years... :(

It's kinda funny, I went to a Reds game the first week of the season back in 2005, and it happened to be Milton's first game sine he signed with the team in the offseason. He had just given up his second long homer to the Mets, and this drunk guy a couple rows down from me turned and said, "We'll be seeing a whole lotta that this year!" I thought it was funny at the time, but it's amazing that drunks do have the power of prophecy...

Yes...must of been drinking Miller Lite...

[jammin' jamey]

Finally, I still think trading Hatteberg would have made the team better, because I think he is one guy that would have fetched a solid prospect in return. He doesn't seem to fit into the plans for next year, unless the club feels Votto is not ready to start full-time. I think Hatteberg is too talented to waste sitting on the bench all year, he would be more valuable to the team as a trading chip to bring in some bullpen help.

Conine has played the last couple of games over Hatteberg, which blows my mind because Conine is not the future and Hatteberg is the teams best hitter...Go figure. I would disagree with you though, keeping Hatteberg as your insurance in case Votto flops is not a bad idea. You can't really platoon the two of them though because they both hit lefthanded...Again, go figure? And since Votto hits lefthanded, that nulls the idea of having him share time with Dunn at 1B. Same problem.

But, the real "waiver" trading deadline doesn't end until September, so things can still happen. I just want to know when are the Reds going to turn the page to next year. Playing Conine and not having Votto up here, or starting Victor Santos this weekend instead of Ramirez is blowing my mind...Go figure.

[Scotty doesn't know]

Exactly why signing Eric Milton 3 years ago was one of the dumbest front-office decisions made by the Reds in the last 20 years. :(

OH!!! I agree more than you will ever know! Man I have seen him at Great American and yeah it is not pretty (like you said). If I remember correctly he gave up at least 2 home runs and around 6 -7 runs. Yeah...sounds about right :)

[More Cowbell]

Conine has played the last couple of games over Hatteberg, which blows my mind because Conine is not the future and Hatteberg is the teams best hitter...Go figure. I would disagree with you though, keeping Hatteberg as your insurance in case Votto flops is not a bad idea. You can't really platoon the two of them though because they both hit lefthanded...Again, go figure? And since Votto hits lefthanded, that nulls the idea of having him share time with Dunn at 1B. Same problem.

But, the real "waiver" trading deadline doesn't end until September, so things can still happen. I just want to know when are the Reds going to turn the page to next year. Playing Conine and not having Votto up here, or starting Victor Santos this weekend instead of Ramirez is blowing my mind...Go figure.

We will just have to disagree about the best use of Hatteberg, then. My feeling is that if Votto is going to start, then Hatteberg becomes a glorified pinch-hitter, which is a luxury this team can't afford. If he's just going to sit the bench, the team would be better in the long run shipping him off for bullpen help to some team that does plan to use him in a greater role, either as a full-time starter or in a platoon situation. You can't platoon him and Votto, so it seems to be an either/or scenario where the team will need to pick who the full-time starter will be. If they don't plan to start Votto, then by all means keep Hatteberg, but I really think Votto has nothing left to prove in AAA ball.

[jammin' jamey]

We will just have to disagree about the best use of Hatteberg, then. My feeling is that if Votto is going to start, then Hatteberg becomes a glorified pinch-hitter, which is a luxury this team can't afford. If he's just going to sit the bench, the team would be better in the long run shipping him off for bullpen help to some team that does plan to use him in a greater role, either as a full-time starter or in a platoon situation. You can't platoon him and Votto, so it seems to be an either/or scenario where the team will need to pick who the full-time starter will be. If they don't plan to start Votto, then by all means keep Hatteberg, but I really think Votto has nothing left to prove in AAA ball.

There's a reason Hatteberg's still here, so I guess we will have to wait and see. :Thumbs:

As for Votto, I don't understand why the Reds don't go ahead and bring him up. As a matter of fact, why not bring up Bill Bray and Gary Majewski? It's time to turn the page for next year.

[Scotty doesn't know]

There's a reason Hatteberg's still here, so I guess we will have to wait and see. :Thumbs:

As for Votto, I don't understand why the Reds don't go ahead and bring him up. As a matter of fact, why not bring up Bill Bray and Gary Majewski? It's time to turn the page for next year.

Regarding Majewski, I think that they are not going to bring him up until they know that he is 100%. After the crap that he pulled after being called up that first time I know that the Reds do not want to force him out there again. Anyways, I do agree about Votto and Bray. Bring them up and let Votto get a feel for the big leagues before his major role next year and let Bray get the feel of pitching up in the bigs again.

[More Cowbell]

There's a reason Hatteberg's still here, so I guess we will have to wait and see. :Thumbs:

As for Votto, I don't understand why the Reds don't go ahead and bring him up. As a matter of fact, why not bring up Bill Bray and Gary Majewski? It's time to turn the page for next year.

I don't see them bringing up Votto until Hatteberg is traded, because it makes no sense to bring him up just to sit the bench. On the flip side, Hatteberg has hit too well this year to be relegated to pinch-hitting on the league's worst team. Personally, I would love to see what Votto can do, which is the main reason I think they should trade Hatteberg.

As far as the relievers go, I'm not sure if Majewski is ever going to be able to help this club, but Bray is another story. I would be very happy to see him healthy and getting major-league batters out like he did last year.

[Scotty doesn't know]

I don't see them bringing up Votto until Hatteberg is traded, because it makes no sense to bring him up just to sit the bench. On the flip side, Hatteberg has hit too well this year to be relegated to pinch-hitting on the league's worst team. Personally, I would love to see what Votto can do, which is the main reason I think they should trade Hatteberg.

As far as the relievers go, I'm not sure if Majewski is ever going to be able to help this club, but Bray is another story. I would be very happy to see him healthy and getting major-league batters out like he did last year.

Agreed! I absolutely hate it for Majewski man, He has not lived up to the potenial, he was shipped as "damaged goods" , and all within the same year his father dies from cancer....Buddy he has endured some physical and for the most part mental pain this year.

[Fenix]

I know Votto is a good prospect, but it's too early to be so sure about him. I wouldn't be suprised to see Cantu end up being our first baseman. I'm more excited about Jay Bruce.

[Scotty doesn't know]

I know Votto is a good prospect, but it's too early to be so sure about him. I wouldn't be suprised to see Cantu end up being our first baseman. I'm more excited about Jay Bruce.

Jay Bruce will hopefully be up in the bigs around the same time as Votto. They both seem to be really to make that jump.

[More Cowbell]

I know Votto is a good prospect, but it's too early to be so sure about him. I wouldn't be suprised to see Cantu end up being our first baseman. I'm more excited about Jay Bruce.

I know what you mean about Jay Bruce, man. After seeing how he has torn it up at every stop he has made this year, I can't wait to see him in a Reds uniform. Could possibly be starting on Opening Day 2008.

[Scotty doesn't know]

I know what you mean about Jay Bruce, man. After seeing how he has torn it up at every stop he has made this year, I can't wait to see him in a Reds uniform. Could possibly be starting on Opening Day 2008.

Do you think that Votto and Bruce may be starting on opening day?

[jammin' jamey]

Do you think that Votto and Bruce may be starting on opening day?

No way Bruce sees the big leagues this year or at the start of next season...Votto may see a September call up and have a chance next year.

[More Cowbell]

No way Bruce sees the big leagues this year or at the start of next season...Votto may see a September call up and have a chance next year.

I disagree about Bruce. If he continues to tear up AAA pitching this fall, then has a spectacular spring training next year, he may force the Reds into bringing him north. I know Krivsky would rather not do that, since it starts the clock toward free agency, but he could force the team's hand. If the Reds send him down despite having the best showing of anybody in camp, they would face a huge PR backlash back in Cincy, and that's something a team drawing as poorly as the Reds can't afford to do.

[Scotty doesn't know]

I disagree about Bruce. If he continues to tear up AAA pitching this fall, then has a spectacular spring training next year, he may force the Reds into bringing him north. I know Krivsky would rather not do that, since it starts the clock toward free agency, but he could force the team's hand. If the Reds send him down despite having the best showing of anybody in camp, they would face a huge PR backlash back in Cincy, and that's something a team drawing as poorly as the Reds can't afford to do.

Very true. Where in the outfield would Bruce play? This year in the minors he has been averaging about .327 so I think he sounds ready.

[Tubby Hater]

I can see Bruce being on the opening day roster, dont know about starting on opening day though. I dont think the Reds will pay Dunn what it takes to keep him, so next year's outfield will look much different.

[More Cowbell]

I can see Bruce being on the opening day roster, dont know about starting on opening day though. I dont think the Reds will pay Dunn what it takes to keep him, so next year's outfield will look much different.

Well, I can't say I agree with that, either. I think if Bruce is on the Opening day roster it will be to start full-time. I can't see them letting him languish on the bench on the major-league roster, which would stunt his growth as a player all while accumulating service time toward free agency. If the team doesn't project him as a starter, I think they will leave him in Louisville so he can play every day.

Which brings me to this. If the Reds keep both Dunn and Griffey for next year, I think Bruce will be in the minors, because with the two of them and Hamilton there will be no place to start. If Dunn or Griffey is gone, maybe the Bruce era starts a little sooner...

[Scotty doesn't know]

Well, I can't say I agree with that, either. I think if Bruce is on the Opening day roster it will be to start full-time. I can't see them letting him languish on the bench on the major-league roster, which would stunt his growth as a player all while accumulating service time toward free agency. If the team doesn't project him as a starter, I think they will leave him in Louisville so he can play every day.

Which brings me to this. If the Reds keep both Dunn and Griffey for next year, I think Bruce will be in the minors, because with the two of them and Hamilton there will be no place to start. If Dunn or Griffey is gone, maybe the Bruce era starts a little sooner...

I would absolutely love to see LF-Bruce C-Hamilton RF-Griffey. That would be a great hitting lineup. Much different than Dunn which is hit a home run or sit on the bench.

[More Cowbell]

I would absolutely love to see LF-Bruce C-Hamilton RF-Griffey. That would be a great hitting lineup. Much different than Dunn which is hit a home run or sit on the bench.

I wouldn't mind that lineup either, but I think you sell Dunn short. It's not like he's been a drain on the lineup like some would have you believe. Look at his stats for the year:

.262 BA, 30 HR, 74 RBI, 60 BB (this puts him on pace for 40+ HR and 100+ RBI)

Yes, he strikes out a lot, and I sometimes want to strangle him when he can't get a sac fly to get that guy in from third, but he's still a top-shelf player. That would be an awful lot to expect Bruce to come in and put up those kind of power numbers right away.

[Scotty doesn't know]

I wouldn't mind that lineup either, but I think you sell Dunn short. It's not like he's been a drain on the lineup like some would have you believe. Look at his stats for the year:

.262 BA, 30 HR, 74 RBI, 60 BB (this puts him on pace for 40+ HR and 100+ RBI)

Yes, he strikes out a lot, and I sometimes want to strangle him when he can't get a sac fly to get that guy in from third, but he's still a top-shelf player. That would be an awful lot to expect Bruce to come in and put up those kind of power numbers right away.

No but I think Bruce would give you more productivity. Maybe not as many homers but heck more position hitting and timely hitting I am sure. Don't get me wrong about Dunn, I think he is a good asset for a team but not a team that needs to get that certain BANG of of their buck, offensively and defensively. Dunn would be much more effective as a DH. Defense is not really his game anyways :thumpsup:

[More Cowbell]

No but I think Bruce would give you more productivity. Maybe not as many homers but heck more position hitting and timely hitting I am sure. Don't get me wrong about Dunn, I think he is a good asset for a team but not a team that needs to get that certain BANG of of their buck, offensively and defensively. Dunn would be much more effective as a DH. Defense is not really his game anyways :thumpsup:

What is position hitting? :confused:

Anyway, Bruce would not be more productive than Dunn next year. I agree that he will likely eventually be the better overall player, but you have to remember he is only 20 years old. You can't expect a kid that young to come in and be the savior of the team (see Bailey, Homer).

[Scotty doesn't know]

What is position hitting? :confused:

Anyway, Bruce would not be more productive than Dunn next year. I agree that he will likely eventually be the better overall player, but you have to remember he is only 20 years old. You can't expect a kid that young to come in and be the savior of the team (see Bailey, Homer).

I know I was using the wrong term. I just can't think of it tonight for some reason......I will sound like an idiot. For instance like when you mentioned that he just has to get a player at third in with a sac fly that would be called _______hitting? Lol I am sorry man.

I don't expect him to be the savior or anything just a more productive player than Dunner, defensively and offensively. I don't expect for him to chance the hitting on the team how Homer Bailey was looked to to solidify the pitching staff

[More Cowbell]

I know I was using the wrong term. I just can't think of it tonight for some reason......I will sound like an idiot. For instance like when you mentioned that he just has to get a player at third in with a sac fly that would be called _______hitting? Lol I am sorry man.

I don't expect him to be the savior or anything just a more productive player than Dunner, defensively and offensively. I don't expect for him to chance the hitting on the team how Homer Bailey was looked to to solidify the pitching staff

OK, I know what you mean now. I think the term you were looking for is situational hitting, which could also include hitting the ball to the right side to get a guy from 2nd to 3rd with less than two outs.

I still say you can't expect him to be more productive than Dunn at such a young age. Look back up a couple posts at Dunn's stats for the year. Do you really think Bruce would put up those kind of numbers in his first year? Eventually, yes. Next year, no.

[Scotty doesn't know]

OK, I know what you mean now. I think the term you were looking for is situational hitting, which could also include hitting the ball to the right side to get a guy from 2nd to 3rd with less than two outs.

I still say you can't expect him to be more productive than Dunn at such a young age. Look back up a couple posts at Dunn's stats for the year. Do you really think Bruce would put up those kind of numbers in his first year? Eventually, yes. Next year, no.

Thanks for the help BTW! I don't really expect him to produce in the same manner as Dunn. I don't expect that amount or even near the amount of homers but better "situational hitting" and defense. Man, it absolutely pains me to see Dunn in the outfield. It is not the MAIN reason but it contributes to reasons. He has LOST MULTIPLE games because of his slow, stupid defensive tatics. He does deserve the credit for the home runs and RBIs but the team needs to build for the future by bringing Bruce to that position and letting him start making those different contributions to the team that Dunn fails to do.

To wrap up. I say Dunn should leave in the offseason (money) and Bruce should begin his learning.

[More Cowbell]

Thanks for the help BTW! I don't really expect him to produce in the same manner as Dunn. I don't expect that amount or even near the amount of homers but better "situational hitting" and defense. Man, it absolutely pains me to see Dunn in the outfield. It is not the MAIN reason but it contributes to reasons. He has LOST MULTIPLE games because of his slow, stupid defensive tatics. He does deserve the credit for the home runs and RBIs but the team needs to build for the future by bringing Bruce to that position and letting him start making those different contributions to the team that Dunn fails to do.

To wrap up. I say Dunn should leave in the offseason (money) and Bruce should begin his learning.

See, I'm still not convinced Bruce wouldn't be better off learning in Louisville next year. He has certainly torn up AAA pitching so far, but what happens if those pitchers figure him out? He will have to show that he can make adjustments as well.

Trust me, I'm as excited about Bruce as anyone, but I want him up when he will make the club better, and I'm not sure that'll be next year.

[Scotty doesn't know]

See, I'm still not convinced Bruce wouldn't be better off learning in Louisville next year. He has certainly torn up AAA pitching so far, but what happens if those pitchers figure him out? He will have to show that he can make adjustments as well.

Trust me, I'm as excited about Bruce as anyone, but I want him up when he will make the club better, and I'm not sure that'll be next year.

Well answer me this. What do you think is going to happen to Dunn over the offseason? I may be judging based on what I think will happen in the offseason which IMO is the best thing for the organization.

[More Cowbell]

And I'm not convinced that letting Dunn go by not picking up his option is the right thing to do, either. When you look at what other power hitters are making across MLB, 13 mill isn't too bad a figure.

I may be in the minority, but I hope they do pick up his option for next year. If they weren't planning on doing that, there was absolutely no reason not to trade him back before the deadline. If you're only going to have him another 2 months in a season that's already lost, trade him for whatever you can get.

[Scotty doesn't know]

And I'm not convinced that letting Dunn go by not picking up his option is the right thing to do, either. When you look at what other power hitters are making across MLB, 13 mill isn't too bad a figure.

I may be in the minority, but I hope they do pick up his option for next year. If they weren't planning on doing that, there was absolutely no reason not to trade him back before the deadline. If you're only going to have him another 2 months in a season that's already lost, trade him for whatever you can get.

I see your stance about Dunn. I just don't know if we pay him that much, if he will give the team their moneys worth. Do you think so?

[More Cowbell]

I see your stance about Dunn. I just don't know if we pay him that much, if he will give the team their moneys worth. Do you think so?

I don't believe that the team would be able to take that 13 million and get a comparable, much less better, hitter on the winter free-agent market. So, in that sense he may be worth the money.

Sorry to go off-topic, but when you think about it, are any pro sports players worth the kind of money they make?

[Scotty doesn't know]

I don't believe that the team would be able to take that 13 million and get a comparable, much less better, hitter on the winter free-agent market. So, in that sense he may be worth the money.

Sorry to go off-topic, but when you think about it, are any pro sports players worth the kind of money they make?

IMO I can't believe that these players get payed this much to something that is considered a recreation lol so that gets a big no in my book.
Sorry to stop the good flow to the conversation but dude it is late and I have to work tomorrow so I will have to take a raincheck on this little discussion! lol

[More Cowbell]

I don't have an actual trade to report yet, but according to ESPN.com Jeff Conine has cleared waivers, meaning he can still be traded by August 31. Scott Hatteberg, however, did not clear, and the team pulled him back.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=2976815

I really hope Conine gets traded to a contender, even if it's just for cash or 'future considerations'. He deserves the chance to play in a pennant chase again before he retires, and he isn't doing anything in Cincinnati other than blocking guys like Votto and Cantu from getting to show what they can do.

[Scotty doesn't know]

I don't have an actual trade to report yet, but according to ESPN.com Jeff Conine has cleared waivers, meaning he can still be traded by August 31. Scott Hatteberg, however, did not clear, and the team pulled him back.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=2976815

I really hope Conine gets traded to a contender, even if it's just for cash or 'future considerations'. He deserves the chance to play in a pennant chase again before he retires, and he isn't doing anything in Cincinnati other than blocking guys like Votto and Cantu from getting to show what they can do.

I agree. It was a reasonable move at the beginning of the year but by now I think it was be the best situation for Conine to go to a different team.

[More Cowbell]

Well, the Reds have finally pulled the trigger on a trade I've been calling for. In what seems to be a no-brainer, Jeff Conine has been traded to the New York Mets for 2 minor leaguers. Although he apparently still plans to retire after this season, he now will get the chance to play in one last World Series.

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20070820&content_id=2160078&vkey=pr_cin&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin

The two minor leaguers obtained are SS Jose Castro and OF Sean Henry, both of whom will report to Double-A Chattanooga.

To take Conine's roster spot the team will call up Jorge Cantu, who had been acquired 3 weeks ago from Tampa Bay. I would assume he will also take on Conine's role as the right-handed half of a 1B platoon with Scott Hatteberg. Cantu had played well at Louisville, hitting .309 with 2 HR and 13 RBI in 24 games.

[Scotty doesn't know]

I am glad to this take place for Conine. He deserved to have one last chance to get to the world series.

[Fenix]

Conine is a class guy and a good hitter. I'm glad to see him get one last chance.

[jammin' jamey]

Good for Conine. Solid player and excellent clubhouse guy. He deserves to go out a winner. Always liked him with the Marlins back in the day.

Cantu got a hit in his first (and only) AB for the Reds last night. Hopefully, he'll turn the corner.

[jammin' jamey]

The Phil Dumatrait experiment is over. He was sent to Louisville today after another horrible start. The Reds have brought back Kirk Saarloos. Hopefully, Saarloos can at least get someone out. Last time up, he failed to retire the last 10 hitters he faced and according to the Reds, he will not be starting.

Victor Santos has also been sent to Louisville and cleared waivers. I'm hoping that the Reds run out Johnny Cueto Saturday in the rotation. Cueto is at Chattanooga, but has been at Louisville this season with success and the Reds are high on him. Matt Belisle is also at Louisville and may be brought back to spot start.

[More Cowbell]

The Phil Dumatrait experiment is over. He was sent to Louisville today after another horrible start. The Reds have brought back Kirk Saarloos. Hopefully, Saarloos can at least get someone out. Last time up, he failed to retire the last 10 hitters he faced and according to the Reds, he will not be starting.

Victor Santos has also been sent to Louisville and cleared waivers. I'm hoping that the Reds run out Johnny Cueto Saturday in the rotation. Cueto is at Chattanooga, but has been at Louisville this season with success and the Reds are high on him. Matt Belisle is also at Louisville and may be brought back to spot start.

Poor Dumatrait. I honestly felt sorry for him last night, it seemed like he had no clue how to get major-league hitters out. Hopefully he will go down to Louisville and learn some kind of out pitch.

As far as Saturday, my money would be on Belisle. He has been down the required number of days and I think he would be the best choice. I am also very high on Cueto, but I'm quite not sure he's ready for the big time yet. He's barely been at Louisville very long.

On a side note, I wonder what the situation is with Bailey and his groin pull? It sure seems like he's been out a long time.

[jammin' jamey]

On a side note, I wonder what the situation is with Bailey and his groin pull? It sure seems like he's been out a long time.

Don't be surprised if you see Bailey shut it down for the year. When he's healthy, he's on and will be a major part of the Reds next season. Why push him like the Cubs did Wood and Prior?

[More Cowbell]

Don't be surprised if you see Bailey shut it down for the year. When he's healthy, he's on and will be a major part of the Reds next season. Why push him like the Cubs did Wood and Prior?

Looks like he may not be ready to shut it down yet. The Post reported that Bailey will make a rehab start for Sarasota on Friday. I hope this means he is healing well, I would love to see him get back to Cincy and show everyone he is ok.

http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AE/20070822/SPT05/708220325/

Also, it appears that Belisle is the likely choice to start Saturday in Dumatrait's spot. John Fay reported in his blog that Belisle had been slated to start the first game of a doubleheader for Louisville today, but did not pitch. Sounds like they are holding him for this weekend.

[jammin' jamey]

Looks like he may not be ready to shut it down yet. The Post reported that Bailey will make a rehab start for Sarasota on Friday. I hope this means he is healing well, I would love to see him get back to Cincy and show everyone he is ok.

http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AE/20070822/SPT05/708220325/

Also, it appears that Belisle is the likely choice to start Saturday in Dumatrait's spot. John Fay reported in his blog that Belisle had been slated to start the first game of a doubleheader for Louisville today, but did not pitch. Sounds like they are holding him for this weekend.

:rockon: Belisle seems to be the consensus...I hope they don't push Bailey because his groin problem has hindered him since May I believe. He was on the DL once before at Louisville because of his groin before he was called up to the Reds.

[More Cowbell]

:rockon: Belisle seems to be the consensus...I hope they don't push Bailey because his groin problem has hindered him since May I believe. He was on the DL once before at Louisville because of his groin before he was called up to the Reds.

I agree, they need to treat Bailey with kid gloves and not rush him back too soon. Still, he has been out a long time now and it seems to me that a groin pull should be healed by now. I would love to see him pitch in Cincy before the year is up, just so I can feel better that he will be ready to roll come next spring.

[More Cowbell]

Bad news today, Bobby Livingston goes on the D.L. with a torn labrum. He will probably miss the rest of this season and possibly part of next season as well, if he has to have surgery.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=mlb&id=2990039

Now the Reds have to scramble to find a starter for Sunday's game, and suddenly Matt Belisle has become a fixture in the rotation even though they haven't even called him up yet. Sad to say, but he and Elizardo Ramirez are now the Nos. 3 and 4 starters in the rotation.

Who will get the call on Sunday? Will it be Gosling, Saarloos, or someone else from the minors?

[jammin' jamey]

Bad news today, Bobby Livingston goes on the D.L. with a torn labrum. He will probably miss the rest of this season and possibly part of next season as well, if he has to have surgery.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=mlb&id=2990039

Now the Reds have to scramble to find a starter for Sunday's game, and suddenly Matt Belisle has become a fixture in the rotation even though they haven't even called him up yet. Sad to say, but he and Elizardo Ramirez are now the Nos. 3 and 4 starters in the rotation.

Who will get the call on Sunday? Will it be Gosling, Saarloos, or someone else from the minors?

My guess is Gosling. Todd Coffey was called up from the minors to take Livingston's place.