Hold backs - why EVERYONE should support it in Pike County

[NEXT]

Example #1 - Shelby Valley see herehttp://www.bluegrassrivals.com/forum/showthread.php?p=486776#post486776


I am a Belfry fan 100%, but am impressed with the run that Shelby Valley has made in the bast 7-8 years. Its a run in the 15th only surpassed by Paintsville and their Sweet 16 Title.

I also don't want you to think that holdbacks are the only reason Shelby Valley is winning like they are. It takes talent and coaching to pull of something like they have BUT the maturity of these kids because of being a year more mature helps tremendously.

To be honest though, unless the holdback rule is changed in Pike County it will be a long, long, long, time before a region title is won from Pike County after this Soph. class is gone. Why? Kids from Pike County are going against kids from Johnson, Floyd, and Martin county at the middle school level that are 1 sometime 2 years older than they are. Currently at Belfry we have kids who are 11-12 years old in 7th grade playing against kids who are 13-14 in the same grade. If they play 8th grade you are looking at a possible 4 year age difference.

I don't fault the parents of those kids one bit, in fact I applaud them for wanting to keep their child at home one more year and giving them an extra year of maturity before going to college. Parents complain its not fair, but yeah, it is.

That current rule in Pike County is only hurting the future of programs like SV, PC, Belfry, and ER and needs to be done away with.


Shelby Valley is example #1 of why it is a GOOD thing to hold your child back for maturity reasons.

If you need others -

Elliot County currently

Belfry of the early 90's

Paintsville.

I encourage you contact whomever you should to get the rule changed.

[uhavenoidea]

Example #1 - Shelby Valley see herehttp://www.bluegrassrivals.com/forum/showthread.php?p=486776#post486776


I am a Belfry fan 100%, but am impressed with the run that Shelby Valley has made in the bast 7-8 years. Its a run in the 15th only surpassed by Paintsville and their Sweet 16 Title.

I also don't want you to think that holdbacks are the only reason Shelby Valley is winning like they are. It takes talent and coaching to pull of something like they have BUT the maturity of these kids because of being a year more mature helps tremendously.

To be honest though, unless the holdback rule is changed in Pike County it will be a long, long, long, time before a region title is won from Pike County after this Soph. class is gone. Why? Kids from Pike County are going against kids from Johnson, Floyd, and Martin county at the middle school level that are 1 sometime 2 years older than they are. Currently at Belfry we have kids who are 11-12 years old in 7th grade playing against kids who are 13-14 in the same grade. If they play 8th grade you are looking at a possible 4 year age difference.

I don't fault the parents of those kids one bit, in fact I applaud them for wanting to keep their child at home one more year and giving them an extra year of maturity before going to college. Parents complain its not fair, but yeah, it is.

That current rule in Pike County is only hurting the future of programs like SV, PC, Belfry, and ER and needs to be done away with.


Shelby Valley is example #1 of why it is a GOOD thing to hold your child back for maturity reasons.

If you need others -

Elliot County currently

Belfry of the early 90's

Paintsville.

I encourage you contact whomever you should to get the rule changed.

The only reason a child should be held back is because of grades. if you wanna hold them back, do it when there in the elem. school and not in middle school..

[BlackcatAlum]

Make sure that you don't mention players names. You can mention anything else, schools, the rule, etc.

If anyone fails to go by what I mentioned above then your post will be deleted.

[BasketBallonlyfan]

If you still think kids should be held back just for sports, answer this question. Before the hold back rule came into effect in the county, how many kids from Shelby Valley, Belfry, and East Ridge actually went to college on a scholarship to play any type of sports? I know A few from Belfrys football team should get a full ride, but how about the other sports and from other schools? How many from Shelby Valley on this big run they are on how went to college to play basketball?

[The King]

Since 2001, the players from SV that have gone on to play college basketball are Shannon Akers (Alice Lloyd), Jeremy Akers (some Alice Lloyd JV), Kris Bentley (Centre), and Paul Fleming (some Pikeville JV). I'm not sure if all of these actually got money towards college, but they are the ones that I can think of.

[phs1986]

Yeah.... BUT... who wants a 19 (going on 20) year old SENIOR in high school!!!

IF their birthdate allows and they have poor grades and are below level...... then go for it! IF they are "of grade age", have a 4.0 GPA, and have straight distinguished on their CATS tests... you are NOT going to help them by holding them back for sports. Their academics will get them into a good school.... I thought that is why they go to school anyway.... to get an EDUCATION!!!

[NEXT]

As I said you don't have to do it but why complain when others do?

If a kids makes straight A's and gets distinguished then by all means don't, but what about the kids that don't?

Who wants a barley 17 year old graduating high school?

[BasketBallonlyfan]

Centre isnt allowed to give any money for sports scholarships. I am pretty sure that JV teams in college only give books and sometimes meals. At Alice Lloyd, between financial aid and work study, there is very little left over that is required to be paid and most of the time unless the parents are totally loaded, that is written off. So far, it doesnt help to hold back kids to get a free ride in college.

[NEXT]

If you still think kids should be held back just for sports, answer this question. Before the hold back rule came into effect in the county, how many kids from Shelby Valley, Belfry, and East Ridge actually went to college on a scholarship to play any type of sports? I know A few from Belfrys football team should get a full ride, but how about the other sports and from other schools? How many from Shelby Valley on this big run they are on how went to college to play basketball?

I can't give all the names but they have had a few in baseball and more than a few in football.


Once they get there and stay is another story.

[NEXT]

Centre isnt allowed to give any money for sports scholarships. I am pretty sure that JV teams in college only give books and sometimes meals. At Alice Lloyd, between financial aid and work study, there is very little left over that is required to be paid and most of the time unless the parents are totally loaded, that is written off. So far, it doesnt help to hold back kids to get a free ride in college.


Just because you are against it does it mean that everyone else shouldn't be allowed to if they choose?

[The King]

So far, it doesnt help to hold back kids to get a free ride in college.

Who said the kids I listed were holdbacks?

[BasketBallonlyfan]

Who said the kids I listed were holdbacks?Ok, how many of them were?

[BasketBallonlyfan]

Just because you are against it does it mean that everyone else shouldn't be allowed to if they choose?If they choose to be held back in middle school, they still can be. The only thing is they cant play the second year in the same grade. If parents want and choose to hold them back, what is the problem with that?

[phs1986]

As I said you don't have to do it but why complain when others do?

If a kids makes straight A's and gets distinguished then by all means don't, but what about the kids that don't?

Who wants a barley 17 year old graduating high school?


Not complaining by any means .... that is each parents choice and I don't fault them for doing what they think is best for their child........

and OH... BTW... I have a STRAIGHT - A (because I stay on top of his education) student who plays 3 sports (excels in 2 of them), participates in school educational activities, scores rather well on the CATS at the end of the year and he will BARELY BE 17 WHEN HE GRADUATES!!!!

[uhavenoidea]

As I said you don't have to do it but why complain when others do?

If a kids makes straight A's and gets distinguished then by all means don't, but what about the kids that don't?

Who wants a barley 17 year old graduating high school?

Like i said, hold them back in elem. school before they even start sports. Most parents wait till they get in middle school and if they are good in sports they hold em back. But, graduating as a 17 yr. old and a 19yr. old is much diff...Like numerous players from SV are 17 and sophmores, and nobody is crazy about why there held back. Some past players like Kiser, Friend(23 right now, and he graduated one year before i did and im 20), and Tackett where 19 when they graduated. Tackett is a great student at Pikeville Coll...So if someone isnt having a problem with school, then why hold them back, because if their 17 when they graduate then they could get outta college at an earlier age, which means an earlier start to a successful life.

[The King]

Ok, how many of them were?

Three of them were not held back for academic reasons... The other didn't come from an SV feeder school, so I'm not totally sure but I think he was...

[BasketBallonlyfan]

Three of them were not held back for academic reasons... The other didn't come from an SV feeder school, so I'm not totally sure but I think he was...So that helps prove a point about the opening post, holding back kids for sports doesnt help them get into college at all. Thank you.

[NEXT]

If they choose to be held back in middle school, they still can be. The only thing is they cant play the second year in the same grade. If parents want and choose to hold them back, what is the problem with that?

They can play, just not in Pike County games, but when parents go as them about it they make a HUGE deal out of it.

If a kid is held back in Pike County they cannot play against Belfry, Mullins, Millard, EC, FC, Kimper, JC, Virgie, and Dorton.

Change it so they can do whatever.


And does your kid even go to a County school?

[phs1986]

They can play, just not in Pike County games, but when parents go as them about it they make a HUGE deal out of it.

If a kid is held back in Pike County they cannot play against Belfry, Mullins, Millard, EC, FC, Kimper, JC, Virgie, and Dorton.

Change it so they can do whatever.


And does your kid even go to a County school?

If that was for me... YEP... he sure does!!!

[vundy33]

I thought it was a state rule that you players couldn't be held back...

[BasketBallonlyfan]

If that was for me... YEP... he sure does!!!So you want to hold them back just for sports and not to help them get a extra year of maturity or even for their grades?

[NEXT]

So you want to hold them back just for sports and not to help them get a extra year of maturity or even for their grades?

Her son goes to Belfry and she has said she will not hold him back........

[NEXT]

I thought it was a state rule that you players couldn't be held back...

KHSAA has no say so..........

[uhavenoidea]

KHSAA has no say so..........

Are u kiddin?...or is it they allow it but pike county dont?

[BasketBallonlyfan]

KHSAA has no say so..........The parents had a say so in the past just the same as they do now. Just because the county passed that rule doesnt mean they cant be held back anyways. If the parents think it is the best thing for their kids, let them hold them back. The KHSAA doesnt have a say in it but the county school board does if they choose. Just because the county school board made that ruling doesnt mean that parents cant still hold them back because they can. If it is for maturity reasons like they say, what is the problem in their kids missing a few games and the county tourney. They will still get the extra year of maturity.

[NEXT]

Are u kiddin?...or is it they allow it but pike county dont?

Until a student enters the 9th grade KHSAA has 0 and I mean ZERO say in athletics.

The rule then reads you have 8 semesters after entering the 9th grade and cannot turn 19 before Aug. 1st of your Senior year.

[uhavenoidea]

Until a student enters the 9th grade KHSAA has 0 and I mean ZERO say in athletics.

The rule then reads you have 8 semesters after entering the 9th grade and cannot turn 19 before Aug. 1st of your Senior year.

Ok, i was just making sure of what you was trying to say.

[The Installer]

Sports shouldn't be the only consideration for holding a child back. What about maturity? How many kids that graduate at age 17 are ready to go to college? If a parent chooses to hold their child back because of age then should the child be penalized and not be allowed to play county sports? Shouldn't the decision of holding back a child be the parent's choice and not the business of the board of education? Sometimes a parent doesn't realize in elementary school that there is a need to hold their child back. Some kids are more mature than others. Isn't the real issue here what's best for the individual child. And with the Pike Co. rule we have no choice if we want our child to be able to be held back and still be one of the team.

[BasketBallonlyfan]

I think the parents should petition the school board to allow hold backs to play as many years of middle school as they can. While they are at it, and because playing your 7th grade or 8th grade twice, why not just petition that if you are a athlete in middle school that you dont even have to go to class. Just have 8 hours of practice instead of learning that stuff like math, science, and English. Who needs to know that stuff anyways when you can win regional tourneys and lots of ball games.

[Butkus]

Example #1 - Shelby Valley see herehttp://www.bluegrassrivals.com/forum/showthread.php?p=486776#post486776


I am a Belfry fan 100%, but am impressed with the run that Shelby Valley has made in the bast 7-8 years. Its a run in the 15th only surpassed by Paintsville and their Sweet 16 Title.

I also don't want you to think that holdbacks are the only reason Shelby Valley is winning like they are. It takes talent and coaching to pull of something like they have BUT the maturity of these kids because of being a year more mature helps tremendously.

To be honest though, unless the holdback rule is changed in Pike County it will be a long, long, long, time before a region title is won from Pike County after this Soph. class is gone. Why? Kids from Pike County are going against kids from Johnson, Floyd, and Martin county at the middle school level that are 1 sometime 2 years older than they are. Currently at Belfry we have kids who are 11-12 years old in 7th grade playing against kids who are 13-14 in the same grade. If they play 8th grade you are looking at a possible 4 year age difference.

I don't fault the parents of those kids one bit, in fact I applaud them for wanting to keep their child at home one more year and giving them an extra year of maturity before going to college. Parents complain its not fair, but yeah, it is.

That current rule in Pike County is only hurting the future of programs like SV, PC, Belfry, and ER and needs to be done away with.


Shelby Valley is example #1 of why it is a GOOD thing to hold your child back for maturity reasons.

If you need others -

Elliot County currently

Belfry of the early 90's

Paintsville.

I encourage you contact whomever you should to get the rule changed.


I am pretty sure that Elliott county players are legit ages for their grades. Now Rose Hill in the 16th Region is definetly a different story. Especially their Middle School players. Johnson and Lawrence are bad for this in Football as well.

[NEXT]

I think the parents should petition the school board to allow hold backs to play as many years of middle school as they can. While they are at it, and because playing your 7th grade or 8th grade twice, why not just petition that if you are a athlete in middle school that you dont even have to go to class. Just have 8 hours of practice instead of learning that stuff like math, science, and English. Who needs to know that stuff anyways when you can win regional tourneys and lots of ball games.

WOW......


You really have a problem with it don't you.

Answer this -


What will it hurt to hold a kid back?

[The Installer]

What is that supposed to mean? Who said anything about education not being the most important thing for any child who goes to school? However, we all know the benefits of playing sports and being a member of a team. If I make the decision that it is best that I hold my child back at this point in their school years, they will be punished and not be able to play sports for that year. Sometimes thats the only thing that keeps the child out of trouble with drugs and alcohol. Other school systems let this decision be made by the parents and KHSAA has standards that won't let a child play past 19. The rules are there so who does Pike Co. feel the need to regulate what is already regulated by the state in the first place? Is this decision being made by people in Pike co. who don't want to hold their child back so they prevent those of us who do from doing so?

[DortonWildcat5]

I think the parents should petition the school board to allow hold backs to play as many years of middle school as they can. While they are at it, and because playing your 7th grade or 8th grade twice, why not just petition that if you are a athlete in middle school that you dont even have to go to class. Just have 8 hours of practice instead of learning that stuff like math, science, and English. Who needs to know that stuff anyways when you can win regional tourneys and lots of ball games.

What about history? I teach history and it always seem to get neglected . . . lol.

[The Guru]

I know that at Paintsville, they have 2 holdbacks. One was held back when in like the 3rd or 4th grade because his parents didn't want for him to turn 18 just befor graduation.
The second wasn't held back for sports. It was more of a maturity thing.
Both are exceptional young men. But honestly....I am not convinced that holding back helps them after high school.
Example....College coach is looking at 2 different Srs. that both play SF.
Kid "A" is 6'5" 210#, 19 years old and is a "Manchild" in the High School ranks. He is averaging 14 points & 8 boards a game.
Kid "B" is 6'5" 190#, 17 years old has all the skills but looks like he could use a little maturity and muscle. Averages 14 points &6 boards a game.
Coach starts thinking.......*hmmmm.....if I could sign Kid "A"....he probably isn't getting much bigger if at all....I wouldn't be able to count on him very early in college.
Kid "B" on the other hand could redshirt, put on 20-30 pounds and maybe even grow an inch or two!!! WOW!!! I might get four full years with him!!*
Holdbacks are a crapshoot IMO.

[DortonWildcat5]

WOW......


You really have a problem with it don't you.

Answer this -


What will it hurt to hold a kid back?



I think he may have a problem because his son wasn't held back, while many holdbacks get lots of attention. Imagine his son as a sophomore. He would be getting much more publicity than he is now. It does kind of distort our view of a player doesn't it?

I don't totally agree with holdbacks, but as a coach I see how hard it is to compete against teams who have lots of them.

[NEXT]

What is that supposed to mean? Who said anything about education not being the most important thing for any child who goes to school? However, we all know the benefits of playing sports and being a member of a team. If I make the decision that it is best that I hold my child back at this point in their school years, they will be punished and not be able to play sports for that year. Sometimes thats the only thing that keeps the child out of trouble with drugs and alcohol. Other school systems let this decision be made by the parents and KHSAA has standards that won't let a child play past 19. The rules are there so who does Pike Co. feel the need to regulate what is already regulated by the state in the first place? Is this decision being made by people in Pike co. who don't want to hold their child back so they prevent those of us who do from doing so?



Actually one school got mad as heck because a parent wanted to hole their child back and the school wouldn't let them. Turns out the kid is a STUD athlete and left. The school and BOE member from that area cried like babies until the rule was changed because they were losing on the athletic field/court.


If

[NEXT]

I think he may have a problem because his son wasn't held back, while many holdbacks get lots of attention. Imagine his son as a sophomore. He would be getting much more publicity than he is now. It does kind of distort our view of a player doesn't it?

I don't totally agree with holdbacks, but as a coach I see how hard it is to compete against teams who have lots of them.


Yes. He and I have had this discussion and he said he didn't care if he played athletics in college or not.

[gotcha2]

I don't agree with holding them back for sports. I'm sure however there are kids out there who would benefit from an extra year to mature (academics/behavior). If people are truly concerned about their kids graduating at 17, then do the math early on and keep them out of school until age 6. I agree it can be hard to compete against the teams that are loaded with holdbacks. From what I've seen most teams have 1-2 players who have been held back. Are there any 15th region teams with more than 1-2 holdbacks, I haven't seen any teams with all 19 year olds.

[NEXT]

I don't agree with holding them back for sports. I'm sure however there are kids out there who would benefit from an extra year to mature (academics/behavior). If people are truly concerned about their kids graduating at 17, then do the math early on and keep them out of school until age 6. I agree it can be hard to compete against the teams that are loaded with holdbacks. From what I've seen most teams have 1-2 players who have been held back. Are there any 15th region teams with more than 1-2 holdbacks, I haven't seen any teams with all 19 year olds.

JC and SV come to mind. I don't know how old the kids from SV will be when they graduate some other will have to chime in.

[gotcha2]

JC and SV come to mind. I don't know how old the kids from SV will be when they graduate some other will have to chime in.

I know SV has one 17 year old Sophomore-other than that I'm not sure.

[DortonWildcat5]

Of SV's starting lineup right now one is a 19 year old senior, one is an 18 year old senior (not held back), one is an 18 year old junior, one is a 17 year old sophomore, and the other is a sophomore and a holdback, but not sure of age. The big man off the bench is a junior who wasn't held back, another guard was held back one year I believe, and the 8th man wasn't held back.

Of the top 8, 5 were held back. Most of the rest of the roster haven't been held back.

Anyone know about the ages of Paintsville's and Pikeville's players?

[gotcha2]

I know one of Paintsville's startrers is a 17 year old Senior and their 6th man is a Senior who just turned 18. Not sure of the others.

[crazytaxidriver]

I was 17 when I started college. its not a big deal like some of you are saying. a child shouldn't be held back for sports. point blank. what is that teaching the child?.

[The Guru]

Of SV's starting lineup right now one is a 19 year old senior, one is an 18 year old senior (not held back), one is an 18 year old junior, one is a 17 year old sophomore, and the other is a sophomore and a holdback, but not sure of age. The big man off the bench is a junior who wasn't held back, another guard was held back one year I believe, and the 8th man wasn't held back.

Of the top 8, 5 were held back. Most of the rest of the roster haven't been held back.

Anyone know about the ages of Paintsville's and Pikeville's players?
At Paintsville, one sr turns 19 this spring and anoth is already 19, the rest are 18 and not holdbacks. Of their top 8 players there are only 2 holdbacks, and neither for sports.

[BasketBallonlyfan]

I think he may have a problem because his son wasn't held back, while many holdbacks get lots of attention. Imagine his son as a sophomore. He would be getting much more publicity than he is now. It does kind of distort our view of a player doesn't it?

I don't totally agree with holdbacks, but as a coach I see how hard it is to compete against teams who have lots of them.No, I dont have a problem because he wasnt held back. He has always been head and shoulders above everyone he went to school in heights while growing up. As far as him getting attention from colleges, he is doing that already and still has a season and a half to go. As a matter of fact, he already has one offer on paper for 5 years with the first being a red shirt year.

Everyone keeps talking how it will help them when they get to be freshmen in college by being held back. Yet no one has mentioned a team that has had hold backs to either go on to college on a scholarship or stay there if they did make it. As far as the extra year of maturity is concerned. If a kid isnt as mature as his classmates and the parents want to hold him back a year to get as mature as the kids a year younger than them, it seems they would be more concerned about why he is maturing late as to how many points a game he will score.

People, you still can hold your kid back if you feel it is best for them to do so. The BOE cant take that right away from you. Just because your young Michael Jordan wont get to play in the county games and county tourney wont keep him from getting that extra year of maturity. One person stated that being part of a team will keep them off drugs and drinking. If a 7th grader is out drunk or doing drugs, that is the parents fault, not being able to play in what, 20 or so basketball games? That sounds like a cry in the dark to me.

[BasketBallonlyfan]

What about history? I teach history and it always seem to get neglected . . . lol.Sorry for neglecting history DW, but it is not one of the 3-r's :Clap:

[Benchwarmer]

JBS has three starters held back two years and another starter was held back one year.

[phs1986]

Her son goes to Belfry and she has said she will not hold him back........


LOLOL.... you ask if he even goes to a county school and then you come back with where he goes!! DANG... your good!! :)

Sorry if anyone got offened by my opinion but that is just what it is... MY OPINION.... My child is the only one that I am making statements about. It is each parents own decision to hold their child back whether it be for maturity, sports, OR grades. I just feel that is isn't the right thing to do for my child. He does too well in his academics and he does like I said earlier, excel in 2 of the 3 sports that he does play.

I do have this feeling about the sports aspect of it though......Are coaches who want their "players" held back looking at it for the maturity of their player OR for the betterment of their team?? Meaning... they have a superstar player and want to hold onto them for another year..... ?????

[BasketBallonlyfan]

So far, the only reasons it has been said that it should be allowed and they get to play all 3 years of middle school is so they can win regional championships. Not that winning those regional championships helps them get into college or anything, just to win them. Oh, and for a extra year of maturity. But only if they could play ball that second year in the same grade. Also, it would keep them from drinking and doing drugs, (20 basketball games can even if parents cant). What are the other reasons for doing it again?

[Another Asssist]

Until a student enters the 9th grade KHSAA has 0 and I mean ZERO say in athletics.

The rule then reads you have 8 semesters after entering the 9th grade and cannot turn 19 before Aug. 1st of your Senior year.

I was under the impression the rule states that once you complete your 8th grade year your high school eligibility of 8 semesters begins. In effect you can repeat the 8th grade but just not participate in sports. If you do then you only have 8 semesters to play. This is what happened to Rodney Haddix & why he did not get to play his Sr. year at Scott County. If you repeat & do not play then your 8 semesters begins at the end of that 2nd 8th grade year. Hence, if Haddix had not played that 2nd year he was in 8th grade he would have been eligible his Sr. year.

[cart man]

Hold backs that got scholarships:

John Pelphrey
Richie Farmer
Rex Chapman

Just off the top of my head.

[cart man]

Hold backs that got scholarships:

John Pelphrey
Richie Farmer
Rex Chapman

Just off the top of my head.

Not Richie Farmer, my mistake.

[ARC]

HOLDBACKS ALWAYS GOOD = WRONG
HOLDBACKS ALWAYS BAD = WRONG

Those who say that no child was ever helped by being held back are WRONG.
Those who say that every child that was held back were helped are also WRONG.

Too many variables. If a kid is held back and 'repeats' under a good teacher AND is placed with good students (his main peers), then it will probably help him EVEN if the original intent to hold back was for sports.

If a kid is held back and 'repeats' under a poor teacher AND/OR is placed with problem students, then it will probably hurt him EVEN if the original intent to hold back was not for sports.

Repeating a year with 'good' teachers probably doesn't hurt.
Dropping into a class full of thugs probably does hurt.
This is the reality. Just too many variables to consider.
It is rare that an extra year of maturity alone ever hurts, either socially, academically or athletically.

[DortonWildcat5]

HOLDBACKS ALWAYS GOOD = WRONG
HOLDBACKS ALWAYS BAD = WRONG

Those who say that no child was ever helped by being held back are WRONG.
Those who say that every child that was held back were helped are also WRONG.

Too many variables. If a kid is held back and 'repeats' under a good teacher AND is placed with good students (his main peers), then it will probably help him EVEN if the original intent to hold back was for sports.

If a kid is held back and 'repeats' under a poor teacher AND/OR is placed with problem students, then it will probably hurt him EVEN if the original intent to hold back was not for sports.

Repeating a year with 'good' teachers probably doesn't hurt.
Dropping into a class full of thugs probably does hurt.
This is the reality. Just too many variables to consider.
It is rare that an extra year of maturity alone ever hurts, either socially, academically or athletically.

Well thought out and well spoken post, ARC.

[myhero#5]

i don't think it helps maturity to hold a child back i held my child back in kindergarten because his teacher said he wasn't mature enough to go to 1st grade so i held him back and trust me it doesn't help.my other son his coach wanted to hold him back in 6th grade because he was good in football and u know what i told him that u should see all his acadmic tropheys and his report card i would rather have a kid good with his school work than good with sports but thats just my opioin

[BasketBallonlyfan]

How about something like this. Instead of petitioning the BOE to get rid of the hold back rule in middle school, why not change it to where it is a coaches responsibility to put in a few extra hours sending letters, videos, and stats to college coaches to try to get their seniors into a college. It seems to me that not many athletes in this area are getting the opportunity to play at the next level. I know that coaches now put in very long hours for a little extra pay. And it very rarely at the high school level would work out to minimum wage. But shouldnt that be part of their job description? Why not a petition about something like that instead of worrying about a hold back missing a few games.

[thecavemaster]

Doesn't the KHSAA have an eligibility rule that says that if a player turns 19 before the season he/she is participating in, then that player is ineligible? Isn't it true to suggest that the main reason for holding back in middle school is competitive advantage?

[Sportsfan54]

Until a student enters the 9th grade KHSAA has 0 and I mean ZERO say in athletics.

The rule then reads you have 8 semesters after entering the 9th grade and cannot turn 19 before Aug. 1st of your Senior year.

The rule is 8 CONSECUTIVE semesters if i'm not mistaken.

[cart man]

Until a student enters the 9th grade KHSAA has 0 and I mean ZERO say in athletics.

The rule then reads you have 8 semesters after entering the 9th grade and cannot turn 19 before Aug. 1st of your Senior year.

They have say some say from 4th grade and up if they play at the high school level.

Bylaw 4. Enrollment

Sec. 1) Maximum Number of Semesters
a) Students promoted from grade eight (8) to grade nine (9) shall
have four (4) consecutive calendar years of eligibility from the
date of first such promotion by the school provided the student
is eligible according to this and all other Association bylaws.
Such eligibility shall conclude with the completion of the spring
sports season following the fourth year.
b) The Commissioner or Board of Control through the Due Process
Procedure, may grant additional eligibility in the case where is
has been documented by the attending physician, Principal and
Superintendent that severe illness or injury has prevented the
student from receiving necessary education services and the
right to an education has therefore been impacted rather than
simply the loss of athletic privilege. Such grant of eligibility may
only be made in the cases in which the student-athlete would
remain eligible by all other Association bylaws. Nothing about
this provision shall include additional eligibility strictly for loss
of participation due to sports related injuries.
c) No student having been enrolled in the fourth (4th) grade
or in any grade through twelfth (12th) shall be eligible for
interscholastic athletics at the high school level (grades 9
through 12) for more than a total of one (1) year in each grade
and applicable eligibility shall begin in the first year enrolled
in that grade. Students repeating a grade for any reason are
ineligible to participate in interscholastic athletics at the high
school level (grades 9 through 12) during the second year in
that grade. The penalty for violation of this rule shall be the loss
of one of the four years of eligibility after being promoted from
grade nine (9). Policies regarding the participation of repeating
students at the levels of play below high school interscholastic
athletics shall be determined by the school council pursuant to
KRS 160.345 (2) (i).

[BasketBallonlyfan]

Doesn't the KHSAA have an eligibility rule that says that if a player turns 19 before the season he/she is participating in, then that player is ineligible? Isn't it true to suggest that the main reason for holding back in middle school is competitive advantage? That is the only reason for doing it. Different people have different excuses on how it is good. But that is all they are, excuses to get a extra year of playing in middle school. People say because kids are not mature enough for college at 17 or 18. Yet very few athletes even go to college from the county. Even if they did, how can a parent tell how mature a kid will when graduated from high school while they are only in the 7th grade? Some say they are not mature enough for their grade. Yet, I bet when they get old enough they get their drivers permit and license as soon as possible. If there are any other reasons, or excuses as to why the ruling should be changed, will someone please post them?

[cart man]

Doesn't the KHSAA have an eligibility rule that says that if a player turns 19 before the season he/she is participating in, then that player is ineligible? Isn't it true to suggest that the main reason for holding back in middle school is competitive advantage?

That was the old rule, the new rule is August 1.

Bylaw 3. Age

Pursuant to KRS 156.070 (2) (e), a student who becomes nineteen

(19) years old before August 1 shall be ineligible for interscholastic
athletic competition. A student who becomes nineteen (19) on or
after August 1 shall remain eligible for the entire school year. The
Board of Control and the Commissioner may waive the provisions
of this regulation and the student shall be eligible for high school
athletics in Kentucky if the written documentation is provided to
clearly demonstrate that the student:
1. Qualified for exceptional children services and had an individual
education program developed by an admissions and release
committee (ARC) while the student was enrolled in the primary
school program;
2. Was retained in the primary school program because of an ARC
committee recommendation; and
3. Has not completed four (4) consecutive years or eight (8)
consecutive semesters of eligibility following initial promotion
from grade eight (8) to grade nine (9).
The Board of Control and the Commissioner may not adopt
administrative procedures that allow for waiver of this rule under
any other condition.
(Case situations related to this bylaw appear on pages 19 through
43 of this Handbook)

2007-2008 KHSAA HANDBOOK

[uk96]

JBS has three starters held back two years and another starter was held back one year.
That is not accurate......

[ARC]

That is the only reason for doing it. Different people have different excuses on how it is good. But that is all they are, excuses to get a extra year of playing in middle school. People say because kids are not mature enough for college at 17 or 18. Yet very few athletes even go to college from the county. Even if they did, how can a parent tell how mature a kid will when graduated from high school while they are only in the 7th grade? Some say they are not mature enough for their grade. Yet, I bet when they get old enough they get their drivers permit and license as soon as possible. If there are any other reasons, or excuses as to why the ruling should be changed, will someone please post them?


Too many variables are involved and it is really a 'case by case' basis. You seem to be arguing that kids do not mature in any aspect in one year. I'm glad that you don't make the decision for my children, whether I choose to hold them back or not.

[thecavemaster]

Assuming compliance with the above stated KHSAA rule (August 1st)... this means a student could start school as a senior at age 19... using my own kid as an example.. he turned six in late August of his kindergarten year. Now, if we had decided to hold back in middle school, he would have turned 19 in late August of his senior year, making him eligible. In all honesty, my experience has been that holding a middle school kid back for athletic reasons is not particularly good socially for the kid.

[uk96]

This has turned out to be quite the topic today...My two cents... I think that holding a kid back is the option that a parent has...The only thing I will say is that most of the time it is done for athletic reasons and not the excuses that most parents give. Most of the time it is telling a kid that dont work hard to excel just stay back and you will be older and stronger and do better against younger competition. It is also one thing to hold a kid back once but when it is done twice then that is purely done for athletic reasons and some parents are just trying to relive their lives thru the lives of their kids. There are some exceptions but not many...

[PC_You_Know]

Honestly, I don't see a case in which it has hurt anyone.

[thecavemaster]

Honestly, I don't see a case in which it has hurt anyone.

I will say that since a lot of middle schools now house 6th, 7th, and 8th graders, the social impact is probably less.

[uk96]

Honestly, I don't see a case in which it has hurt anyone.I
I think that some feel that it hurts the younger kids they play against because it is not a level playing field. Also it could hurt the kids that are own your own team that are two years younger than you. Just a thought.

[thecavemaster]

I
I think that some feel that it hurts the younger kids they play against because it is not a level playing field. Also it could hurt the kids that are own your own team that are two years younger than you. Just a thought.

In good AAU tournaments, there is a pretty strict adherence to age requirements (birth certificates and ID required)... and the age groups are single (8U, 9U, 10U, 11U, 12U etc.). Here, the idea is playing "up" if one is skilled enough. I think that is good policy, good practice.

[NEXT]

Now that I've started this I will put my view out there.


1 - not every child needs to be held back.

2 - not always is a 17 year old less mature than a 18-19 year old BUT I want to give my son every chance he has to grow and get experience in this world while under my roof.

3 - It is a proven fact that there is a HUGE difference in the mental and physiological development between a 17-19 year old MALE - go look into any college biomechanics or anatomy and physiology 300-400 level college text book.

4 - Why punish a kid in the 6-8th grade if he is held back? How do I know how my son will mature? Who can look at a 1st-5th grader and say he is mature beyond his years? Some kids you can, some you can't. The social and mental aspects of middle school reveal some flaws in the development of children. Because at this age hormones start going crazy and you start to introduce complex networks and paths in the brain because of this. Sports help children deal with these things because they are surrounded by their peers - but if they are 11 and another child is 13 or they are not allowed to play they are not surrounded by their peers.

[PC_You_Know]

Now that I've started this I will put my view out there.


1 - not every child needs to be held back.

2 - not always is a 17 year old less mature than a 18-19 year old BUT I want to give my son every chance he has to grow and get experience in this world while under my roof.

3 - It is a proven fact that there is a HUGE difference in the mental and physiological development between a 17-19 year old MALE - go look into any college biomechanics or anatomy and physiology 300-400 level college text book.

4 - Why punish a kid in the 6-8th grade if he is held back? How do I know how my son will mature? Who can look at a 1st-5th grader and say he is mature beyond his years? Some kids you can, some you can't. The social and mental aspects of middle school reveal some flaws in the development of children. Because at this age hormones start going crazy and you start to introduce complex networks and paths in the brain because of this. Sports help children deal with these things because they are surrounded by their peers - but if they are 11 and another child is 13 or they are not allowed to play they are not surrounded by their peers.

You have all my support in the world for this statement, I was held back late before I even started school, my mother thought I should wait another year and I don't see any problem with it, I don't turn 19 till this summer, and I don't think it has hurt me at all, I wouldn't have liked to graduate with the class in front of me anyways.

[Benchwarmer]

JBS has three starters held back two years and another starter was held back one year.

That is not accurate......

It is accurate and I know what I'm talking about.

[NEXT]

Basketballfanonly - how many Pikeville players were holbacks on last years team?


Harmon
Clevinger
Honaker



I think there are more than that, but would they have been as good without them?

[Benchwarmer]

Basketballfanonly - how many Pikeville players were holbacks on last years team?


Harmon
Clevinger
Honaker



I think there are more than that, but would they have been as good without them?

Don't use names.

[BoondockSaint]

Yeah.... BUT... who wants a 19 (going on 20) year old SENIOR in high school!!!

IF their birthdate allows and they have poor grades and are below level...... then go for it! IF they are "of grade age", have a 4.0 GPA, and have straight distinguished on their CATS tests... you are NOT going to help them by holding them back for sports. Their academics will get them into a good school.... I thought that is why they go to school anyway.... to get an EDUCATION!!!

So if your kid is 19 during his/her senior year of high school you wouldn't want them anymore??

[BoondockSaint]

I am pretty sure that Elliott county players are legit ages for their grades. Now Rose Hill in the 16th Region is definetly a different story. Especially their Middle School players. Johnson and Lawrence are bad for this in Football as well.

All of Elliot Co.'s first six are holdbacks.

[BoondockSaint]

LOLOL.... you ask if he even goes to a county school and then you come back with where he goes!! DANG... your good!! :)

Sorry if anyone got offened by my opinion but that is just what it is... MY OPINION.... My child is the only one that I am making statements about. It is each parents own decision to hold their child back whether it be for maturity, sports, OR grades. I just feel that is isn't the right thing to do for my child. He does too well in his academics and he does like I said earlier, excel in 2 of the 3 sports that he does play.

I do have this feeling about the sports aspect of it though......Are coaches who want their "players" held back looking at it for the maturity of their player OR for the betterment of their team?? Meaning... they have a superstar player and want to hold onto them for another year..... ?????

Maybe they want to see their players get the most out of their potential and give them fully alotted time to do so in high school.

[Dream_Weaver]

This had to be one of the hardest decisions that our family made in regards to doing what was right for our child. And I am still not sure that we made the right decision. We didn't take this decision lightly--we discussed pros and cons at great length--and the BOE rule did play a part in our decision making.

In my opinion this should be a private family matter and as long as the parents and child are aware of regulations regarding future eligibilty the BOE shouldn't be a factor.

[gotcha2]

In good AAU tournaments, there is a pretty strict adherence to age requirements (birth certificates and ID required)... and the age groups are single (8U, 9U, 10U, 11U, 12U etc.). Here, the idea is playing "up" if one is skilled enough. I think that is good policy, good practice.

AAU accomodates holdbacks. Or at least they still did 2 years ago. The student has to have a form signed by their principal that verifies what grade they are in.

[NEXT]

AAU accomodates holdbacks. Or at least they still did 2 years ago. The student has to have a form signed by their principal that verifies what grade they are in.


YBOA and AAU allow 2 grade exceptions for every team.



I'll give you this example, Belfry can play in 12 and under AAU for their entire 8th grade team.............

[phs1986]

So if your kid is 19 during his/her senior year of high school you wouldn't want them anymore??


I meant to say who would WANT to be a "going on 20" year old senior...

[phs1986]

So if your kid is 19 during his/her senior year of high school you wouldn't want them anymore??


and OH... I forgot... MY kid will be a 17 year old senior... NOT a 20 year old one.... and YES... I would still want him... LOLOL.... He is my baby!!

[The Installer]

I meant to say who would WANT to be a "going on 20" year old senior...

But see that's the point about holdbacks. Not every child that would be held back would be a 19 year old senior. My child will graduate at 17. Even if I held him back he would graduate at age 18. Every child is different and every case is also different. That is why it should be the decision of the parent and not of anyone else.

[phs1986]

But see that's the point about holdbacks. Not every child that would be held back would be a 19 year old senior. My child will graduate at 17. Even if I held him back he would graduate at age 18. Every child is different and every case is also different. That is why it should be the decision of the parent and not of anyone else.


EXACTLY!!! and I agree 100%.... parents choice!!

[NEXT]

But see that's the point about holdbacks. Not every child that would be held back would be a 19 year old senior. My child will graduate at 17. Even if I held him back he would graduate at age 18. Every child is different and every case is also different. That is why it should be the decision of the parent and not of anyone else.


We have a winner...........thanks for getting the point.

[BoondockSaint]

I meant to say who would WANT to be a "going on 20" year old senior...

Ask all of the former "19 year old seniors who will turn 20 their freshman year of college" and see if you can find any that regrets the decision.

Most of them will tell you that they hated the decision at the time it was made by their parents, but none will regret it & they will probably do the same with their kids.


Give me the choice of sending my child to college as a 17 year old or a 19 year old, and I'd pick the 2 years more mature 19 year old everyday of the week & twice on Sunday.

I agree with you that it is or should be a parent's choice, not a Board decision, principal decision, or coach's decision.

But there is no denying that the maturity level of a 19 year old, both mentally & physically, is two years greater than that of a 17 year old.

[BoondockSaint]

One more thing and I'm done.

I think that the one thing we can all agree on is that holding a child back is a parent's decision, and no one is more inclined or informed to make that decision than a child's parent.

If the thread starter meant for this thread to support the "Parental Decision" of holding a child back in Pike Co., then we should all back those whose right to make that decision up until the 8th grade have been taken away regardless of how we feel about holding our own child back.

Not supporting their rights or decisions of those who would like to hold their children back because you do not agree with the concept contradicts all those who say it should be a parental decision but do not support parents wishing to hold back their child.

There are many decisions in our adult life that we'd like to make but can't because of various reasons. How we raise our children, or what's best for our children should not be one of them.

[BasketBallonlyfan]

Too many variables are involved and it is really a 'case by case' basis. You seem to be arguing that kids do not mature in any aspect in one year. I'm glad that you don't make the decision for my children, whether I choose to hold them back or not.I dont make decisions for anyones kids but my own. Same as you do for your kids and no one elses. The good part about it is that you can still make that decision. You can still hold your child back in middle school if you feel it is in the best interest of your child. Why complain about it if you can still do it?

[The Installer]

One more thing and I'm done.

If the thread starter meant for this thread to support the "Parental Decision" of holding a child back in Pike Co., then we should all back those whose right to make that decision up until the 8th grade have been taken away regardless of how we feel about holding our own child back.

Not supporting their rights or decisions of those who would like to hold their children back because you do not agree with the concept contradicts all those who say it should be a parental decision but do not support parents wishing to hold back their child.

There are many decisions in our adult life that we'd like to make but can't because of various reasons. How we raise our children, or what's best for our children should not be one of them.


You are 100% right!

[Dream_Weaver]

One more thing and I'm done.

I think that the one thing we can all agree on is that holding a child back is a parent's decision, and no one is more inclined or informed to make that decision than a child's parent.

If the thread starter meant for this thread to support the "Parental Decision" of holding a child back in Pike Co., then we should all back those whose right to make that decision up until the 8th grade have been taken away regardless of how we feel about holding our own child back.

Not supporting their rights or decisions of those who would like to hold their children back because you do not agree with the concept contradicts all those who say it should be a parental decision but do not support parents wishing to hold back their child.

There are many decisions in our adult life that we'd like to make but can't because of various reasons. How we raise our children, or what's best for our children should not be one of them.

excellent post!

[SeeBlue]

I hought about holdin back in 8th grade and now i wish i would have