View Full Version : Possible hot topic: Baptism
Necessary, not necessary?
I know views generally vary with type of religion, but what do you think and WHY?
ComfortEagle
01-25-2005, 05:01 PM
Not necessary but should be done. After Jesus was resurrected he said all that needed to be done was believe he died for our sins, to believe in him. That means baptism is no longer necessary, just as animal sacrifices are no longer necessary.
I think it should be done out of respect though, and is a sign that you're are a changed person.
crazytaxidriver
01-25-2005, 05:07 PM
Not necessary but should be done. After Jesus was resurrected he said all that needed to be done was believe he died for our sins, to believe in him. That means baptism is no longer necessary, just as animal sacrifices are no longer necessary.
I think it should be done out of respect though, and is a sign that you're are a changed person.
I completely agree.. After you get saved, you WANT to do it. Not because you have to but because like CE said, its a sign of respect.
4leaf
01-25-2005, 05:17 PM
I used to go to a church that believed that it was necessary, so I'm kinda on the fence on this one, even though Im not sure you can be.
I personally believe it is necessary. I was brought up that way, although, I have made my own decisions in life. Even if it's not, it's good to be on the safe side.
My preacher always ends the message with this scripture:
Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be ****ed.
ComfortEagle
01-25-2005, 08:03 PM
Yeah, but the problem occurs when someone is dying or get saved and gets in a car wreck on the way home. What happens then? Do they not go to heaven even though they accepted Christ?
crazytaxidriver
01-25-2005, 09:19 PM
Yeah, but the problem occurs when someone is dying or get saved and gets in a car wreck on the way home. What happens then? Do they not go to heaven even though they accepted Christ?
Which brings it back to, when you do get saved, you have a WANT to get baptized. But if an accident does occur, and you never get to be baptized, then I believe you still go to heaven because you have already accepted christ into your life and are willing to do his will. But if you go through the motion of getting saved and don't get baptized because of whatever reason, other than a deathly fear of water, then you might want to look into yourself and see if you truly believe or are just goin through the motions.
Yeah, but the problem occurs when someone is dying or get saved and gets in a car wreck on the way home. What happens then? Do they not go to heaven even though they accepted Christ?
That's not or me to decide. :wink:
But seriously, that is a good question. I don't know the answer. I would like to think they're still given a chance.
GoForIt
01-26-2005, 12:54 AM
In the scripture above, notice belief comes first... then baptism. The rest states if theres no belief you are ****ed, not if you arent baptized. Works for me!!
ComfortEagle
01-26-2005, 01:35 AM
Yeah, there's also these scriptures:
John 10:9 - I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Luke 8:12 - Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
Luke 7:50 - And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.
Luke 18:42 - And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee
John 10:9 - I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
Acts 2:21 - And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Acts 15:11 - But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved
And most importantly:
Romans 10:9 - That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
The general theme is that you must have faith in order to be saved. If baptizing alone can save you then what was the point in Jesus coming to Earth? I think this last scripture really says it all though. It doesn't say if you shall confess with your mouth AND be baptized, it only says you must confess with your mouth and BELIEVE.
If baptizing alone can save you then what was the point in Jesus coming to Earth? I think this last scripture really says it all though. It doesn't say if you shall confess with your mouth AND be baptized, it only says you must confess with your mouth and BELIEVE.
Well, that's the thing, it's not baptism alone in that scripture. It's believing and baptism. The second part, "he that believeth not", could be referring to the baptism without believing?
I'm just throwing points out there for argument here... but, and this goes for all of us, IMO you can't just ignore certain scripture and go by what's most convenient.
Basically, the way I look at it, you HAVE to believe, that's a given. Baptism just seals the deal. But like I said earlier, I think it's best to be on the safe side and go for it all.
ComfortEagle
01-26-2005, 10:45 AM
Romans 10:9 - That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
This says nothing about being baptized being required to be saved.
No, it doesn't. But you missed my point. Mark 16:16 does. If we're going to ignore that, let's just ignore all the other scripture we don't like.
To go with verses that don't mention baptism, there are those that do:
Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
BaseballFan13
01-26-2005, 01:08 PM
I personally believe it is necessary. I was brought up that way, although, I have made my own decisions in life. Even if it's not, it's good to be on the safe side.
My preacher always ends the message with this scripture:
Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be ****ed.
I agree wholeheartedly!! Ithink you MUST be baptized to be saved! The bible does have some scripture that says believe and you will be saved, but in others it says you must be baptized to be saved. IMO you must do everything the bible says and not just parts of it!
Hip-hop Box
01-26-2005, 03:53 PM
Yeah, but the problem occurs when someone is dying or get saved and gets in a car wreck on the way home. What happens then? Do they not go to heaven even though they accepted Christ?
Which brings it back to, when you do get saved, you have a WANT to get baptized. But if an accident does occur, and you never get to be baptized, then I believe you still go to heaven because you have already accepted christ into your life and are willing to do his will. But if you go through the motion of getting saved and don't get baptized because of whatever reason, other than a deathly fear of water, then you might want to look into yourself and see if you truly believe or are just goin through the motions.
That is why god made ****, He loves us sooooooooo(infinity) much he wants up to come wit him in tha everlasting life he knows as we are in human flesh that one day we will die and you go to heave or **** .Getting baptized is symbolic to Jesus that we died and came back as a new person, anybody can say i believen Christ and never really mean it, it’s kind of a discipline actin anybody want to find out read John 3:3 if you cant find it it says Ye must be born again or you cannot see the Kingdom of God.
ComfortEagle
01-26-2005, 03:59 PM
Anyone can get baptized and not mean it too. Does that mean they go to heaven just because they got dunked?
Hip-hop Box
01-26-2005, 04:06 PM
It says Water wont washer away you sins, cuz we live in human flesh we are goin to sin that is the first sage of becoming a born again christian but you must be Born again (baptized) to see the kingdom of God.
Posted Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:08 pm:
Belive it or not God knows if you dont mean it so it`s not like gettin baptized is all you have to do you have to follow through with the commitment.
Posted Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:09 pm:
Belive it or not God knows if you dont mean it so it`s not like baptized is all you have to do you have to follow through with the commitment.
ComfortEagle
01-26-2005, 04:21 PM
Right, but just like getting circumsized was a SYMBOL, so is getting baptized. It's a symbol that your sins are being washed away. the physical water does not wash you of your sins, the Holy Spirit does. Where in the Bible does it say you MUST be baptized to be saved? I know it says you SHOULD be baptized, but where does it say MUST?
Hip-hop Box
01-26-2005, 05:27 PM
I will get back at you when i get back from my chruch team practice.
ComfortEagle
01-27-2005, 11:06 AM
Is church practice over?
Hip-hop Box
01-27-2005, 06:45 PM
It`s in Matthew somewhere,Matthew 28:17-20
ComfortEagle
01-27-2005, 08:02 PM
Right, but does it say you MUST be baptized to be saved. I agree you SHOULD be baptized, but there are people who accept Christ that cannot get baptized.
BlueGrassGirl
01-28-2005, 12:59 AM
Right, but does it say you MUST be baptized to be saved. I agree you SHOULD be baptized, but there are people who accept Christ that cannot get baptized.
I personally do not want to get into this argument but I just want to know why someone "cannot get baptized"? Why couldnt they?
ComfortEagle
01-28-2005, 01:03 AM
If they die on their death beds. If they accept Christ at a church service and die on the way home, because most churches do not perform baptisms until the next week after a person accepts Christ. And there are even some people who have allergic reactions to water. There was a news special on kids who broke out in blisters where water touched their skin. There's a lot of different things.
BlueGrassGirl
01-28-2005, 01:15 AM
I am now wondering how those people who are allergic to water stay clean or even live for that matter????????
On to the baptism thing, I agree about that part...if you just so happen to die before the baptism is performed.
Hip-hop Box
01-28-2005, 03:05 AM
If they die on their death beds. If they accept Christ at a church service and die on the way home, because most churches do not perform baptisms until the next week after a person accepts Christ. And there are even some people who have allergic reactions to water. There was a news special on kids who broke out in blisters where water touched their skin. There's a lot of different things.
Try again. A large amount of our body is water.
If they die on their death beds. If they accept Christ at a church service and die on the way home, because most churches do not perform baptisms until the next week after a person accepts Christ.
I agree in saying that's the way I would like it to be.
ComfortEagle
01-28-2005, 04:14 PM
If they die on their death beds. If they accept Christ at a church service and die on the way home, because most churches do not perform baptisms until the next week after a person accepts Christ. And there are even some people who have allergic reactions to water. There was a news special on kids who broke out in blisters where water touched their skin. There's a lot of different things.
Try again. A large amount of our body is water.
No, I swear to God above that there are people's WHO'S SKINS, THEIR EPIDERMUS, is allergic to water.
PHS (cant catch us)
02-10-2005, 02:08 AM
1peter 3:20-22:20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also–not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge[e] of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22who has gone into heaven and is at God's right hand–with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.
this pretty much sums it up.. if you need more verses just ask. If you are gonna be a servant to God you have to go 100% and be baptised. God has mercy on ones who are in the worse of circumstances.. but what was said about being on the last limbs of life and wanting to be baptised and cant rarely happens. But God knows whats in your heart, if your being "saved" and not going all the way then thats wrong. IMO
mlb33
04-10-2005, 12:49 AM
I dont believe it is necessary I believe all baptism is a public confession of faith.
ComfortEagle
04-11-2005, 05:39 PM
PHS - wtf?
You seemed to contradict yourself a little there at the end.
I can find verses that say you can be saved and mention nothing of baptism too.
I think the biggest proof for me. Is with Jesus and the two thieves on the crosses. One denied him and the other believed him. The one who denied him went to ****. But Jesus said to the one who believed that he would be with him in heaven. How do you explain that? He was a sinner on a cross, dying. And he went to heaven. So that proves it is NOT necessary!
mlb33
04-11-2005, 10:15 PM
Well, I don't know for sure because sometimes when you think the Bible is talking about one thing it is really talking about something else. Godfather does have a point with the thieves.... and NO, water doesn't wash away the sin ........ the Holy Spirit does ...... however one has to wonder when it is talkling of being baptisted could it possiably just be refering to the fact of the Holy Spirit washing away your sins? Does it say anywhere that baptisting is the physical fact of going under water? I sort of think it the author was using the word bapstism to relate how the we are cleasend or born again.
ComfortEagle
04-12-2005, 02:02 AM
We agree on this mlb.
mlb33
04-12-2005, 08:12 AM
We agree on this mlb.
Godfather, I would say we agree on a lot of things. I think you just misunderstood me in the other thread and jumped to conclusions. No hard feeling man 8)
thetribe
04-13-2005, 08:37 AM
I believe that if you accept God into your life and live as a good person then he is going to know that and let you come into heaven. I do not think that being baptised in a MUST but some people do. I am not religious so I am not wanting to fight with someone over if they should or should not do it but it is accoriding to their religion and their preference. Life your life the way you should and if you accept Christ into your heart then I think that you would be rewarded regardless of baptism or not. In special cases of people not being able to be completely baptised then I think that the Lord understands those too.
doody britches
04-13-2005, 11:34 PM
This is a really touchy subject and I'm surprised it was even brought up. But since it was, I'll throw my 2 cents in. The Bible says to be baptized for the remission of sins, it's plain and simple. There is a PLAN of salvation and some scriptures talk about believing and some talk about batpisim. They are both part of the plan. That doesn't mean that you just do one without the other. You don't get batpized and not believe, therefore you shouldn't just believe and not get baptized. I could go on and on about this subject, but I prefer not to argue about it. I believe what I believe and although it would be nice if everyone agreed, I know that will never be. God will judge us all accordingly on this subject.
crazytaxidriver
04-14-2005, 12:04 AM
I doubt God cares.
Bold statement... care to elaborate?
hawkamania
04-14-2005, 02:04 AM
I think that you should be. it is crazy how some people use parts of the bible to make it easier on themselves. i used to have a tough time with this one. I go to a church where they preach that it is a must. I read my bible, and looked up alot of verses that mention baptism. And I now believe it is a must. About the thieves on the cross-this is only my interpretation-the one who accepted christ was permitted into heaven becasue the world was still under the old covenant-the new covenant doesnt start until after Jesus' death and ressurection, but Im not for sure. I will ask my preacher about that one. There are plenty of verses that say you only have to believe to be saved, and there are plenty that say you must be baptized(born again) I dont see how some people can believe the first, and not the ones about baptism. Can someone explain to me about how at some churches you get saved one week, then you are baptized a few weeks later? I dont comprehend that. My views and interpretations of the bible are different from this. thanks
ComfortEagle
04-14-2005, 02:15 AM
As far as I know, only the church of christ believes in baptizing on the same day. I know that Baptists do not believe baptism saves a person. Baptists believe you are saved by the grace of God and your belief that Jesus died for your sins, that is what gets you into heaven. We baptize later because it is more convenient and economical to baptize a group of people at once.
Baptists believe that baptism alone cannot save you, and you must believe, and baptism is only something to do, to show the world you fiollow Christ.
thetribe
04-14-2005, 07:50 PM
at the church that my mother goes to, which is a first church of god, when someone wants to get baptised they wait until like the following wednesday night so that the person can invite some of their family that may not be present and it gives them time to run the water, bring dry clothes and towels, and things like that. it is very possible for someone to get saved and then die before get baptised.
I doubt God cares.
Bold statement... care to elaborate?
If he cared so much you think he would have said something by now.
crazytaxidriver
05-02-2005, 07:08 PM
I doubt God cares.
Bold statement... care to elaborate?
If he cared so much you think he would have said something by now.
What's he goin to do? Create a profile and type it out? I dont' think so. If you are serious about that then I'm not going to even waste my time arguing about it..
muffin_man
08-24-2005, 01:42 PM
the bible also says to witness to every living creature...
it says don't lie...
it says don't steal..
it says witness..
it says be baptized..
so does that mean, since jesus said to witness, and we don't we're not saved? he wants you to do it, but its not necessary for salvation.
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