[OffTheHook]

Every game that I have witnessed this season. I have witnessed EVERY TEAM using ILLEGAL BATS. Just passing on some info. Cause apparently these Coaches do NOT know what can happen to themselves and their players if they are caught.

http://www.khsaa.org/handbook/bylaws/bylaw11.pdf

http://www.khsaa.org/handbook/bylaws/bylaw33.pdf


EVERY person from the Principal to the player is responsible for this. Sure would hate to see anyone ejected because they think they can sneak their bat in and not get caught. The HC and the player both can be ejected.

Thing is...I just don't understand making a rule and NOT inforcing it. Looks like someone is going to have to step up and force everyone else's hand.

So here ya go if you think your bat is legal. EVERY Easton Stealth Speed BSS1, BSS2, BSS3 is ILLEGAL and so are the Rawlings 5150Cs! Saw ALL used tonight by the same team.

http://www.mme.wsu.edu/~ssl/certified/ba...ified.html

http://www.mme.wsu.edu/~ssl/certified/ba...ified.html

[ROCKSOLID69]

The list of legal bats has changed 5 times over the off season. I Could see both sides of this. Some players/Schools can not afford all new bats for one year. There has allready been talk of some more bats being baned next season. Then again I see the KHSAA side by trying to protect the pitchers. but if they make a rule they need to enforce it.

[OffTheHook]

The list of legal bats has changed 5 times over the off season. I Could see both sides of this. Some players/Schools can not afford all new bats for one year. There has allready been talk of some more bats being baned next season. Then again I see the KHSAA side by trying to protect the pitchers. but if they make a rule they need to enforce it.

All bats that are used this season are banned next season. BBCOR bats are the only bats allowed next season. And the list and link I posted is up to date. Only a few bats have been ruled allowed that were originally on the banned list and it isn't the "off season" any more.

It's really a SIMPLE RULE. Just look at the bat and then look at the list. It is either illegal or legal. Plain and simple. Coaches are teaching their players to cheat by saying....just use it till they tell ya no or just use it cause the Umps don't care. What is this saying to these kids. It's alright to cheat if you don't get caught. Well ask Mark McGwire, Manny Ramirez, Sammy Sosa and those guys, if they feel the same way now about cheating.

[Stardust]

^ I understand what you are saying, but NFHS really did not set the umpires up for success for this. They should have just did it all at one time. You cannot have a moving target of a list, nor do I expect my umpires to show up with a list. It's my responsibility as the coach to have my own list and if I see another team use an illegal bat, then it is my job to point it out. I do not expect the Umpires to be able to keep up with this when I can't. So, I have seen other teams use illegal bats against me, but I don't have a list, thus, I'm to blame. No different than it is my job to catch an appeal play.

[Colonel Kill]

I am a firm believer in playing and teaching the game within the rules and hate when you see teams either not care enough to learn/teach the rules or just plain cheat. I know our team has an updated list they provide with their bats during pregame inspection. I do agree with SD, I think it is the coaches responsibility to question the umpire about bats he sees the opponent using. We had at least one team that tried to use one of the illegal Easton Stealths. I think it will be a lot better next year with the BBCOR bats.

[Hit and Run]

I talked to some umpires about this and they said that the only thing they could check was the stamp. Any bat with a BESR or BBCOR stamp is legal for play, but there are some BESR bats that are not. This is where the coach has to step up. All coaches should have the bat list with them at every game. The umps were told that they were not responsible to have the bat list in their possession. So if the coaches do not have the list, all the umpires can do is check the stamp.

[JackRabbitSlim]

I talked to some umpires about this and they said that the only thing they could check was the stamp. Any bat with a BESR or BBCOR stamp is legal for play, but there are some BESR bats that are not. This is where the coach has to step up. All coaches should have the bat list with them at every game. The umps were told that they were not responsible to have the bat list in their possession. So if the coaches do not have the list, all the umpires can do is check the stamp.

The other reality to this is that most of the eastern kentucky umpires have no idea what to even look for in determining if it is legal or not? That is the sad truth

[Stardust]

^ would say it runs further than EKY. It's a challenge for the umpires and honeslty they were not set up for success.

[warmachine]

Any high school kids get their bats shaved/juiced? Theres all kinds of websites that do this for softball. Actually I've had a few shaved for slowpitch softball. And man does it help. Just wondering if they do this at the highschool baseball level. Theres only one way to fix the problems though. GO TO WOODEN BATS! We'd see who has the power then.

[Stardust]

^ Wooden bats will NEVER happen. To expensive! I am completely supportive of the restricted aluminum, and have zero interest in going to all wood! The new BBCOR bats have the same bounce as a wooden bat but they will last infinitely longer than wood! As for shaving baseball of softball bats, it's against the rules. I would hope that you ad your bat shaved for entertainment purposes only, otherwise..................

[phs1986]

My son has a 5150 that has BBCOR stamped on it. We checked before we purchased it to make sure it was in compliance with the new rules... We just ordered another bat for him .... Has anyone used or heard of it... http://www.baseballexp.com/catalog/produ...ess-_-Link If so, give me some input please!!! LOLOL

[Spud6]

^phs1986, I've never heard of a Rip-it bat. Who makes them?

[phs1986]

MP, from my understanding (I could be wrong on this one) this is a proto-type bat....He doesn't know we have got it ordered so he may not even like it!!! LOL..... When he was younger, my son preferred the Rawlings Liquid Metal Big Stick bat to any and all (the blue ones NOT the plasma, big stick 2 or any other Rawlings)...... We used to have to search high and low to find them!!

[Spud6]

MP, from my understanding (I could be wrong on this one) this is a proto-type bat....He doesn't know we have got it ordered so he may not even like it!!! LOL..... When he was younger, my son preferred the Rawlings Liquid Metal Big Stick bat to any and all (the blue ones NOT the plasma, big stick 2 or any other Rawlings)...... We used to have to search high and low to find them!!

Haha. I hope he likes it. Cause bats can be very very expensive.

[phs1986]

Haha. I hope he likes it. Cause bats can be very very expensive.

Your tellin me! LOL....

[commonsense]

The batter is NOT EJECTED for using an illegal bat.
Rule 7.4.1a: The batter is out for entering the batters box with an illegal bat or is discovered having used an illegal bat, if the infraction is discovered prior to the next pitch.
This is a NFHS Rule and is very plain. All composite bats that bear the BBCOR stamp are legal. Any composite bat that bears the BESR stamp must not be on the banned bat list. It is up to the head coach of a team to provide a list of any composite bat that his team will use that shows the composite bat with the BESR stamp is legal. No list and the bat cannot be used, period. Umpires are to check the equipment prior to the game to make sure it is legal. If a batter shows up in the batters box with a banned bat, he is out, nothing more, nothing less.

[OffTheHook]

The batter is NOT EJECTED for using an illegal bat.
Rule 7.4.1a: The batter is out for entering the batters box with an illegal bat or is discovered having used an illegal bat, if the infraction is discovered prior to the next pitch.
This is a NFHS Rule and is very plain. All composite bats that bear the BBCOR stamp are legal. Any composite bat that bears the BESR stamp must not be on the banned bat list. It is up to the head coach of a team to provide a list of any composite bat that his team will use that shows the composite bat with the BESR stamp is legal. No list and the bat cannot be used, period. Umpires are to check the equipment prior to the game to make sure it is legal. If a batter shows up in the batters box with a banned bat, he is out, nothing more, nothing less.

Just going off the KHSAA Bylaws for Illegal Equipment. But, I do know of a kid being ejected this season for just having a Phiten Necklace on while at the plate......"Illegal Equipment"..? Guess it is how the Ump interprets the rules.

[OffTheHook]

My son has a 5150 that has BBCOR stamped on it. We checked before we purchased it to make sure it was in compliance with the new rules... We just ordered another bat for him .... Has anyone used or heard of it... http://www.baseballexp.com/catalog/produ...ess-_-Link If so, give me some input please!!! LOLOL

I've seen the bat in the catalogs. Just not in use. I'm gonna wait till next season and give them this year to work out the bugs on these BBCO Bats, then purchase one for him. He is kinda leaning towards the Nike.

[jed]

I guess M'boro got caught last night.

[Estill_1999_32]

Today, Estill caught Garrard using an orange stealth. They showed the umps their list of legal bats and the ump wouldnt throw the bat out because they didnt have a list of illegal bats. So if you know anyone on a coaching staff make sure they have the illegal bat list.

[LClion4life]

Haha. I hope he likes it. Cause bats can be very very expensive.

I know a kid that bought a $300 bat in the offseason only to find out it was illegal when the season started.

[Colonel Kill]

Today, Estill caught Garrard using an orange stealth. They showed the umps their list of legal bats and the ump wouldnt throw the bat out because they didnt have a list of illegal bats. So if you know anyone on a coaching staff make sure they have the illegal bat list.

That is one I had not heard of. I thought if the bat was not on the legal list it was considered illegal.

[Estill_1999_32]

That was their argument, but the ump said the commisioner sent all the umps an email saying the only list they could go by was an illegal list. Kinda sounds like he didnt know what he was talking about.

[phs1986]

According to what information I got before I purchased the one I'm waiting on to arrive.... There is some kind of paperwork with it for documentation of it's legality within the KHSAA codes. Who knows but I guess I'll find out when it gets here tomorrow or Tuesday! LOL...

[just wondering]

All bats that are used this season are banned next season. BBCOR bats are the only bats allowed next season. And the list and link I posted is up to date. Only a few bats have been ruled allowed that were originally on the banned list and it isn't the "off season" any more.

It's really a SIMPLE RULE. Just look at the bat and then look at the list. It is either illegal or legal. Plain and simple. Coaches are teaching their players to cheat by saying....just use it till they tell ya no or just use it cause the Umps don't care. What is this saying to these kids. It's alright to cheat if you don't get caught. Well ask Mark McGwire, Manny Ramirez, Sammy Sosa and those guys, if they feel the same way now about cheating.

how did they cheat when it was not on mlb drug test when it was being done. they are being punished for something added on there test after the fact.

[doomsday]

if the ump checks it before the game and allows it, then even if the bat does pan out to be illegal nothing should happen other than the fact that they throw the bat out.
not all stealths are illegal. composite bats are illegal but you can have a metal bat with composite handle..

[commonsense]

This should clear up the mess and let everyone know that the coaches are responsible for providing a list of legal bats. I got this from an umpire and it came from the KHSAA. If your bat is not on this list of legal bats, you can't use it.


This e-mail is being sent to all Baseball Umpires, Coaches and Assigning Secretaries:

Now that we are in our second week of the regular season, I wanted to follow up and remind everyone about the Baseball Bat Rule and try to get and keep everyone on the same page in this transitional year dealing with composite bats.

Posted on the KHSAA website are two links (Under Baseball, General Information)
1) Information on Legal Bats http://www.khsaa.org/baseball/nfhsbatrule.pdf
2) A listing taken from the NFHS of the Composite BESR Bats that meet ABI Standards -- these are the only composite BESR bats that are legal (there are 27 bats). http://www.khsaa.org/baseball/besrbats.pdf

The reason I send the reminder is that there seems to be the assumption that if the bat simply has BESR stamped on it ......that it is legal ......this is not correct ....if it is a composite bat, even if it has BESR stamped on it ....it still has to meet ABI standards to be a legal bat used in high school play this year -- thus the list. There are many bats out there, now with the rule change ....that are composite bats that have BESR on them .....but are not legal. Please make note that you are taking on a great liability if this rule is not adhered to and administered properly by coaches or officials.

It continues to be the Coach's responsiblity (as was mentioned in the rules clinic) to know what bats your guys are using and if a composite bat.. .to provide umpires a copy of the list showing that your bats to be used are legal.

I hope we can continue to work together to get through this year and please remember, all of this was done for the safety of the kids, coaches and officials that are on the field of play.




Butch Cope
Assistant Commissioner
Kentucky High School Athletic Association
(859)299-5472-p
(859)293-5999-f

[Stardust]

^ Nice job to include this

[redstorm]

if a coach allows this to happen in the future, there should be a serious penalty for this. Don't put the pitcher in danger..I hope the khsaa address this!

[Stardust]

^ Address what? What has not already been addressed?