[Hoot Gibson]

These "peaceful protesters" are accumulating a very long cumulative rap sheet. As for your photos, it is always nice to know their source. It is very easy to Photoshop such a picture to produce some of the effects that are shown above. I am very skeptical that the policemen in the pictures are pepper spraying peaceful protesters with so many witnesses and these events are not being widely reported by credible sources.

So far, what I have seen from the OWS group and its spin-offs have been crowds of not-so-peaceful protesters trying to bait the police into using force against them. If you will notice the expressions on the crowd's faces in the first photos, their calm does not seem to match what they are allegedly witnessing. Maybe the photo is genuine but it looks very phony to me. If the policeman pictured is really pepper spraying a subdued protester, then I agree that he needs to be disciplined (and probably dismissed from his job.)

Police forces around the nation have shown incredible restraint in dealing with the lowlifes who confront them at the OWS camps around the country. I don't understand why so much crime is going unpunished simply because these freeloaders have declared themselves a movement.

[TheRealVille]

These "peaceful protesters" are accumulating a very long cumulative rap sheet. As for your photos, it is always nice to know their source. It is very easy to Photoshop such a picture to produce some of the effects that are shown above. I am very skeptical that the policemen in the pictures are pepper spraying peaceful protesters with so many witnesses and these events are not being widely reported by credible sources.

So far, what I have seen from the OWS group and its spin-offs have been crowds of not-so-peaceful protesters trying to bait the police into using force against them. If you will notice the expressions on the crowd's faces in the first photos, their calm does not seem to match what they are allegedly witnessing. Maybe the photo is genuine but it looks very phony to me. If the policeman pictured is really pepper spraying a subdued protester, then I agree that he needs to be disciplined (and probably dismissed from his job.)

Police forces around the nation have shown incredible restraint in dealing with the lowlifes who confront them at the OWS camps around the country. I don't understand why so much crime is going unpunished simply because these freeloaders have declared themselves a movement.

There is a video of the whole thing in my post above. I'll post it again. Just about every media outlet in the country is talking about this. Surely you can pick one that you find credible?
Here's a page with a long list of sources talking about it. http://news.google.com/news/story?pz=1&c...ted+States
[YOUTUBE="UC"]WmJmmnMkuEM[/YOUTUBE]

[nky]

well at least they didn't taser them

[Deathstar 80]

I'm pretty sure that in the past, I said that violent riots were going to come. And to be honest, I think it's going to be worse in the spring season of next year.

Please listen to what I've been saying in the past year. I know it's controversial of what I've been saying, but please look it up yourself. By the way, it's fine if you truly want to peacefully protest. However, make sure that the people you're standing by are also peaceful. As I've said over and over again, violent riots will be taken advantage of by certain politicians. I deeply encourage you to not stand with the violent rioters. No matter what happens, please help each other and stand for peace.

[vundy33]

I don't know what is so hard to understand about this. They were told to move back, over and over, they didn't so they used pepper spray to make it easier for them to remove them forcefully. It happens all the time.

At least these kids are getting a damn education. Pay the debt off with the job you get because of that degree. When cops tell you to do something, you do it. End of discussion.

I bet some of you would be even more upset if they used tazers or tear gas?

[Hoot Gibson]

There is a video of the whole thing in my post above. I'll post it again. Just about every media outlet in the country is talking about this. Surely you can pick one that you find credible?
Here's a page with a long list of sources talking about it. http://news.google.com/news/story?pz=1&c...ted+States
[YOUTUBE="UC"]WmJmmnMkuEM[/YOUTUBE]

Thanks. After watching the video, I understand the situation much better. The protesters were defying a lawful order by the police to move and they refused. I honestly do not see what the problem was. The protesters got what they were seeking - attention, and the police calmly did the job that they were hired to do. As nky pointed out, at least the protesters were not tasered. Whatever was being sprayed must have been diluted because it didn't seem to be all that effective.

When I looked at the photo, I had the impression that those sitting on the ground had been arrested and subdued. That was not the case and the police were very much justified in spraying those who refused to move.

[Hoot Gibson]

I'm pretty sure that in the past, I said that violent riots were going to come. And to be honest, I think it's going to be worse in the spring season of next year.

Please listen to what I've been saying in the past year. I know it's controversial of what I've been saying, but please look it up yourself. By the way, it's fine if you truly want to peacefully protest. However, make sure that the people you're standing by are also peaceful. As I've said over and over again, violent riots will be taken advantage of by certain politicians. I deeply encourage you to not stand with the violent rioters. No matter what happens, please help each other and stand for peace.

These protests have little to do with the economy. If they did, then those staging these protests would be adamantly opposed to the policies of the current administration. Instead they are parroting the class warfare rhetoric and demonizing the "wealthiest one percent among us" while using the same words as Barack Obama. If these idiots want a more affordable education, then they need to transfer to a public university in the South or Midwest. Liberals have spoiled the once great state of California and they are working hard to ruin the rest of the nation.

[TheRealVille]

Thanks. After watching the video, I understand the situation much better. The protesters were defying a lawful order by the police to move and they refused. I honestly do not see what the problem was. The protesters got what they were seeking - attention, and the police calmly did the job that they were hired to do. As nky pointed out, at least the protesters were not tasered. Whatever was being sprayed must have been diluted because it didn't seem to be all that effective.

When I looked at the photo, I had the impression that those sitting on the ground had been arrested and subdued. That was not the case and the police were very much justified in spraying those who refused to move.

If the police were in the right, why did they leave when the protesters told them to?

[vundy33]

^^^lol...

[Hoot Gibson]

If the police were in the right, why did they leave when the protesters told them to?

Because they are employed by some of the most liberal government entities in the country. Working as a police officer is tough enough without having your employer constantly siding with those who are breaking the law. These policemen have nothing to do with sky high tuition, room and board, and fees at California's public universities. The school administrators who are cowardly siding with the protesters draw some of the highest salaries in the country. It's a good thing that their students are too poorly educated to recognize the real villains in California.

[Amun-Ra]

Because they are employed by some of the most liberal government entities in the country. Working as a police officer is tough enough without having your employer constantly siding with those who are breaking the law. These policemen have nothing to do with sky high tuition, room and board, and fees at California's public universities. The school administrators who are cowardly siding with the protesters draw some of the highest salaries in the country. It's a good thing that their students are too poorly educated to recognize the real villains in California.

Imagine that. You come in here and blame the actions of the cops on liberals. You are like clockwork.

[TheRealVille]

Imagine that. You come in here and blame the actions of the cops on liberals. You are like clockwork.

He's just being the usual conservative idiot that we have come to love. If it were conservative protesters, you would see a different Hoot. He will side against anything non conservative, whether right or wrong.

[Hoot Gibson]

Imagine that. You come in here and blame the actions of the cops on liberals. You are like clockwork.

What would have been acceptable to you? These protester were violating the law and refusing to comply with the lawful demands of police officers. Should the police officers be forced to expose themselves to the possibility of bites by HIV positive protesters by manhandling them? Should they simply shrug and refuse to do their jobs when people who are breaking the law exercise their choice to peacefully disobey the law? If so, do you describe yourself as an anarchist?

The villain here is not the police. The villain is the state of California for its refusal to exercise some fiscal responsibility. The state is saddling the state's students with ridiculous levels of debt. Protesting high tuition is not going to cause money to grow on trees. California is a fiscal train wreck and liberals have been running the state government for many years. Who do you blame for the mess?

[Hoot Gibson]

He's just being the usual conservative idiot that we have come to love. If it were conservative protesters, you would see a different Hoot. He will side against anything non conservative, whether right or wrong.

Anybody who reads your posts can discern who the idiot in this debate is, RV. Conservative groups, such as the Tea Party protesters generally have respect for our police departments. Liberal protesters, on the other hand, tend to deface public and private property, including police cars, with their own feces, urine, and saliva.

Peaceful demonstrations are a powerful force for change but if you choose a course of civil disobedience, then you must be ready to accept the consequences - and in a civilized society there should be consequences for willfully breaking the law and ignoring the lawful orders of police officers.

The police are there to protect the students' right to peacefully protest - not to stand idly by and watch them break the law.

[TheRealVille]

Anybody who reads your posts can discern who the idiot in this debate is, RV. Conservative groups, such as the Tea Party protesters generally have respect for our police departments. Liberal protesters, on the other hand, tend to deface public and private property, including police cars, with their own feces, urine, and saliva.

Peaceful demonstrations are a powerful force for change but if you choose a course of civil disobedience, then you must be ready to accept the consequences - and in a civilized society there should be consequences for willfully breaking the law and ignoring the lawful orders of police officers.

The police are there to protect the students' right to peacefully protest - not to stand idly by and watch them break the law.

:please: I have two posts in this debate, and they both only show a video, and some links. As you can see by the video, all it took for the unlawful police to leave was the protesters telling them to. Anybody who reads your posts knows that anything conservative is AOK with you, lawful or not.

[Amun-Ra]

What would have been acceptable to you? These protester were violating the law and refusing to comply with the lawful demands of police officers. Should the police officers be forced to expose themselves to the possibility of bites by HIV positive protesters by manhandling them? Should they simply shrug and refuse to do their jobs when people who are breaking the law exercise their choice to peacefully disobey the law? If so, do you describe yourself as an anarchist?

The villain here is not the police. The villain is the state of California for its refusal to exercise some fiscal responsibility. The state is saddling the state's students with ridiculous levels of debt. Protesting high tuition is not going to cause money to grow on trees. California is a fiscal train wreck and liberals have been running the state government for many years. Who do you blame for the mess?

For one if they wanted to shoot people point blank in the face with pepper spray, they should have done to the ones that were surrounding them causing them to fear for their lives. That is what the police said to justify their actions. Look at the police assault on the retired New York Supreme Court Justice. Yea I am sure they were being totally unlawful. Police have been abusing their power for years now. The police in our cities are more weaponized than most countries. Take in kids who were not that eduacted and never had much power and turn them loose with a badge. Look at the veteran who got killed in the raid in California or New Mex. Senseless. This action was no different.

Liberal or conservitive it doesn't matter. Both parties have turned this country in to a bag of fail in the past 11 going on 12 years. This country prides itself on liberty and freedom and applauds other countries when they strive for that, but when our own country does it when try to cut them down in the media (Fox) and act like they don't know what they are doing and are criminals. OWS and other movements are doing so because they are tired of corrupt goverment. They are tired of everyone who runs their buisness into the ground getting bailed out while the middle and lower class continues to be shit on. They are tired of growing debt and tutition with no hopes of getting a job in a dwindling job market. You want to come on here and make saints of ervery conservitive politican and drag through the mud anyone who is liberal all the while both are equally shitty and to blame for our situation.
This is not a political thread or topic so lets stay out of that.

[Hoot Gibson]

:please: I have two posts in this debate, and they both only show a video, and some links. As you can see by the video, all it took for the unlawful police to leave was the protesters telling them to. Anybody who reads your posts knows that anything conservative is AOK with you, lawful or not.

What did the police do that was unlawful? Were the protesters breaking the law, and if so, what would you have the police to do in such a case? Ignore them? Some, if not all, of the police involved in this incident were university employees. The administration's decision not to support the police was unfortunate and it was most likely the reason that the police withdrew from the scene.

[Hoot Gibson]

For one if they wanted to shoot people point blank in the face with pepper spray, they should have done to the ones that were surrounding them causing them to fear for their lives. That is what the police said to justify their actions. Look at the police assault on the retired New York Supreme Court Justice. Yea I am sure they were being totally unlawful. Police have been abusing their power for years now. The police in our cities are more weaponized than most countries. Take in kids who were not that eduacted and never had much power and turn them loose with a badge. Look at the veteran who got killed in the raid in California or New Mex. Senseless. This action was no different.

Liberal or conservitive it doesn't matter. Both parties have turned this country in to a bag of fail in the past 11 going on 12 years. This country prides itself on liberty and freedom and applauds other countries when they strive for that, but when our own country does it when try to cut them down in the media (Fox) and act like they don't know what they are doing and are criminals. OWS and other movements are doing so because they are tired of corrupt goverment. They are tired of everyone who runs their buisness into the ground getting bailed out while the middle and lower class continues to be shit on. They are tired of growing debt and tutition with no hopes of getting a job in a dwindling job market. You want to come on here and make saints of ervery conservitive politican and drag through the mud anyone who is liberal all the while both are equally shitty and to blame for our situation.
This is not a political thread or topic so lets stay out of that.

There is a form titled "Politics and Current Events" and this topic fits both categories, regardless of where it is posted. Conservatives and liberals are not equally to blame for this situation but I have never painted all conservatives as saints. The truth is there are very few conservatives in our federal government and the conservatives who are in California's state government have no power to change anything. Californians are reaping what they have sowed and many of them have fled the state after getting a look at the mess that they have created.

Have you been following the OWS news at all? The rapes, the thievery, assaults, murders, and other crimes that have been occurring at these "peaceful" gatherings?

Some of the people at the OWS encampments are there for the reasons that you cited but many of them have no clue what the movement is about and are dumbfounded when asked to articulate the reason why they are there.

Wall Street did not create the problems that the students on Berkely's campuses are protesting and they are not directly responsible for the problems that some OWS demonstrators are protesting. Our federal and state governments are directly responsible - liberals more than conservatives, but many Republicans, including George W. Bush have been part of the problem. Bush's "ownership society" and thieves in Congress such as Barney Frank and Chris Dodd were responsible for the housing bubble and the bank crises.

Regardless of what the students are protesting, civil disobedience carries a price. I don't blame the police for not manhandling protesters the way that was done during protests in the 1960s. One bite from an HIV-positive thug can end a career and cut a life short.

I have never understood why protesters work so hard to make cops the enemy when all they are doing is their jobs. If they want to put pressure where it hurts, then they need to march on government offices in Sacramento and occupy the campus administration offices. That is where they will find the people responsible for their trouble and none of them are wearing badges or armed with pepper spray. Fighting with the police is always a stupid thing to do.

[vundy33]

For one if they wanted to shoot people point blank in the face with pepper spray, they should have done to the ones that were surrounding them causing them to fear for their lives. That is what the police said to justify their actions. Look at the police assault on the retired New York Supreme Court Justice. Yea I am sure they were being totally unlawful. Police have been abusing their power for years now. The police in our cities are more weaponized than most countries. Take in kids who were not that eduacted and never had much power and turn them loose with a badge. Look at the veteran who got killed in the raid in California or New Mex. Senseless. This action was no different.

Liberal or conservitive it doesn't matter. Both parties have turned this country in to a bag of fail in the past 11 going on 12 years. This country prides itself on liberty and freedom and applauds other countries when they strive for that, but when our own country does it when try to cut them down in the media (Fox) and act like they don't know what they are doing and are criminals. OWS and other movements are doing so because they are tired of corrupt goverment. They are tired of everyone who runs their buisness into the ground getting bailed out while the middle and lower class continues to be shit on. They are tired of growing debt and tutition with no hopes of getting a job in a dwindling job market. You want to come on here and make saints of ervery conservitive politican and drag through the mud anyone who is liberal all the while both are equally shitty and to blame for our situation.
This is not a political thread or topic so lets stay out of that.

I don't even know why you attempt to talk about this kind of stuff...you're so far out of the park it's not even funny anymore.

They didn't spray the damn people surrounding them because those weren't the people they had to remove, and weren't the reason they were there!

[TheRealVille]

I don't even know why you attempt to talk about this kind of stuff...you're so far out of the park it's not even funny anymore.


They didn't spray the damn people surrounding them because those weren't the people they had to remove, and weren't the reason they were there!

But, that is the people that they(the police) said they felt threatened by.

[RunItUpTheGut]

If the people would have got up and moved they wouldnt have got sprayed

[OrangenowBlue]

The problem is if this had been anti-abortion protesters the conservatives would have cried foul and Fux news would have blasted the police for excessive use of force.

[SKINNYPIG]

Conservatives that protest don't squat in a sex crazed frenzy on private property while wallowing in filth, feces, urine and well you get the picture. We'll leave that to you liberals. OINK!

[vundy33]

But, that is the people that they(the police) said they felt threatened by.

My God man...they were there because of the protesters on the ground. Their objective was to remove them. When they felt threatened by the BIG crowd, they went to something that would make removing the small group on the ground quicker, which equals to getting out of there quicker. It doesn't make sense to try to use pepper spray on the entire crowd, it would more than likely end up in their own face.

This is why they used their batons on the crowd when they started closing in on them. Pepper spray/CS gas that close, on that many people would end up in their own eyes and lungs, a taser isn't really helpful with that many people and for some reason stupid people like these react to someone getting tazed crazier than someone getting shot...and well, the only other deterrent is non-lethal ammunition.

I mean, I don't know what you all want from them. People scream out and blame police if a crime happens and they didn't get there fast enough, or they let someone go who then goes out and commits a murder or rape...and then when they do their jobs, we have people screaming "police brutality!".

They had orders to remove those people. Our police across the country have been extremely tolerant of this crap, been hit with rocks and glass and spit on while they couldn't do a thing but stand there...and then when they get orders to clear people out, and they do it the RIGHT way and LESS harmful way, by far, we have people that go on about how horrible it is and how pathetic it is to live in America. Then, when people like myself stand behind them for doing there damn job and looking out for themselves, Amun-Ra and alot of others say stupid shit like this "Ah screw it. Should have shot them. No one cares what this country is coming to. no one cares how our freedoms are being shit on. Let's become a police state and execute people that break curfew."

SHIT ON?!!? ARE YOU SERIOUS?!?! These cops and this government you hate so much have given these protesters more freedom an leeway than ANY protesters have EVER gotten in the history of our country! What the hell?!?!

I'm starting to get the feeling that Americans will never be satisfied without having something to bitch about, someone to point their fingers at, or something to protest...no matter how much we have it compared to the rest of the world.

I have NO problem with anyone protesting anything, it's one of the reasons our country is so great, our citizens speak out and sometimes they're heard. But good god, do it the right way! Don't defy the damn law, don't break stuff, don't completely disregard others property and others' right to public property by making a complete mess of it! This country is so damn spoiled, it makes me f*cking sick.

[vundy33]

The police in our cities are more weaponized than most countries. Take in kids who were not that eduacted and never had much power and turn them loose with a badge.

This is the same stupid, ridiculous logic the people have who tell me I enlisted at 18 because "you weren't smart enough to go to college" or that "you just want some power".

Those are the same people who are calling themselves the 99% and bitching about their debt from college while my uneducated power hungry self gets paid to go to college...

[TheRealVille]

My God man...they were there because of the protesters on the ground. Their objective was to remove them. When they felt threatened by the BIG crowd, they went to something that would make removing the small group on the ground quicker, which equals to getting out of there quicker. It doesn't make sense to try to use pepper spray on the entire crowd, it would more than likely end up in their own face.

This is why they used their batons on the crowd when they started closing in on them. Pepper spray/CS gas that close, on that many people would end up in their own eyes and lungs, a taser isn't really helpful with that many people and for some reason stupid people like these react to someone getting tazed crazier than someone getting shot...and well, the only other deterrent is non-lethal ammunition.

I mean, I don't know what you all want from them. People scream out and blame police if a crime happens and they didn't get there fast enough, or they let someone go who then goes out and commits a murder or rape...and then when they do their jobs, we have people screaming "police brutality!".

They had orders to remove those people. Our police across the country have been extremely tolerant of this crap, been hit with rocks and glass and spit on while they couldn't do a thing but stand there...and then when they get orders to clear people out, and they do it the RIGHT way and LESS harmful way, by far, we have people that go on about how horrible it is and how pathetic it is to live in America. Then, when people like myself stand behind them for doing there damn job and looking out for themselves, Amun-Ra and alot of others say stupid shit like this "Ah screw it. Should have shot them. No one cares what this country is coming to. no one cares how our freedoms are being shit on. Let's become a police state and execute people that break curfew."

SHIT ON?!!? ARE YOU SERIOUS?!?! These cops and this government you hate so much have given these protesters more freedom an leeway than ANY protesters have EVER gotten in the history of our country! What the hell?!?!

I'm starting to get the feeling that Americans will never be satisfied without having something to bitch about, someone to point their fingers at, or something to protest...no matter how much we have it compared to the rest of the world.

I have NO problem with anyone protesting anything, it's one of the reasons our country is so great, our citizens speak out and sometimes they're heard. But good god, do it the right way! Don't defy the damn law, don't break stuff, don't completely disregard others property and others' right to public property by making a complete mess of it! This country is so damn spoiled, it makes me f*cking sick.

That's the beauty of America, we can all have different opinions. No offense my friend, but in this post you are sounding like the "I'm always right, so you're wrong" people on the board, that shall remain nameless.

[TheRealVille]

https://www.facebook.com/Lt.Peppers.LonelyArtMemeBand

[TheRealVille]

[Image: http://www.bluegrassrivals.com/forum/pic...tureid=366]

[TheRealVille]

UC Davis Chancellor Linda Katehi, who has faced criticism from students over Friday's incident, defended herself during a town hall meeting on Tuesday night. She told an auditorium filled with more than 1,000 students that she asked police to remove tents from the university's quad but did not direct them to forcibly remove the demonstrators.

"I explicitly directed the chief of police that violence should be avoided at all costs," she said. "It was the absolute last thing I ever wanted to happen."

She stressed that students have a right to demonstrate peacefully.

"Because encampments have long been prohibited by UC policy, I directed police only to take down the tents," she said. "My instructions were for no arrests and no police force."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/nov...sfeed=true