[TheRealVille]

So, can a law officer check their credentials/photo id on a routine stop or not? I was under the impression that they couldn't, but got "served" when I made that statement earlier in the post.

It seems to me that I must show photo id when asked but illegals can't even be asked. If that's correct, then it's just more BS. I don't know....maybe I'm just old fashioned, but I've worked and/or gone to school since age 12. It just seems like the citizens' whose back this country is built and sustained have fewer rights that non-citizens who are here illegally. I've been saving for my grand children's college education ever since they were born, but suddenly it appears more profitable if I divorce my husband, renounce my citizenship, move to Mexico, come back illegally. THEN, I wouldn't have to pay for nearly as much and no one would be allowed to challenge my position.

That's just messed up.

Once stopped, they can check their credentials/id, just like they do you. They just can't see a Mexican person in a car, doing nothing illegal, and stop them because they look Mexican, then ask to see their credentials/id.

You didn't get "served" by me. I just pointed out that you were posting false information. That is how the uninformed rumors get started, just exactly they way somebody got you to believe the false stuff you posted.

The last bold is all false. You can't get into any school without ID and credentials. Think about what you say. Do you know of any college that will let you enroll without proper ID, and being a citizen of the US, or at least have papers showing that you are legally here. Abosolutely zero Mexicans are in school here, any school, without at least some kind of proof of ID, which means they have some kind of paper allowing them to be in the US. The rights propaganda has you by the ears.

[Granny Bear]

"The last bold is all false. You can't get into any school without ID and credentials. Think about what you say. Do you know of any college that will let you enroll without proper ID, and being a citizen of the US, or at least have papers showing that you are legally here. Abosolutely zero Mexicans are in school here, any school, without at least some kind of proof of ID, which means they have some kind of paper allowing them to be in the US. The rights propaganda has you by the ears."


California Allows College Aid To Illegal Immigrants
"California Governor Jerry Brown on Saturday signed a bill giving illegal immigrant college students access to state-funded financial aid, the second half of two-part legislatoin known as the "Dream Act". The controversial measure, which passed the Democrat-controlled legislature on a party-line vote in September, represents a victory for immigrant-rights activists ahead of the 2012 presidential election. California is the nation's most populous state.

Only two other states, Texas and New Mexico, allow illegal immigrants to qualify for state financial aid for college, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures.....

Brown in July fulfilled a campaign promise by signing into law a companion bill to allow illegal immigrants to receive privately-funded college scholarships. Together the two bills have been dubbed the "California Dream Act".


Actually I do think about what I say. This is a direct quote from Reuters. I don't think that qualifies as a rights propaganda.

[TheRealVille]

"The last bold is all false. You can't get into any school without ID and credentials. Think about what you say. Do you know of any college that will let you enroll without proper ID, and being a citizen of the US, or at least have papers showing that you are legally here. Abosolutely zero Mexicans are in school here, any school, without at least some kind of proof of ID, which means they have some kind of paper allowing them to be in the US. The rights propaganda has you by the ears."


California Allows College Aid To Illegal Immigrants
"California Governor Jerry Brown on Saturday signed a bill giving illegal immigrant college students access to state-funded financial aid, the second half of two-part legislatoin known as the "Dream Act". The controversial measure, which passed the Democrat-controlled legislature on a party-line vote in September, represents a victory for immigrant-rights activists ahead of the 2012 presidential election. California is the nation's most populous state.

Only two other states, Texas and New Mexico, allow illegal immigrants to qualify for state financial aid for college, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures.....

Brown in July fulfilled a campaign promise by signing into law a companion bill to allow illegal immigrants to receive privately-funded college scholarships. Together the two bills have been dubbed the "California Dream Act".


Actually I do think about what I say. This is a direct quote from Reuters. I don't think that qualifies as a rights propaganda.

Do a little research and find me just one school that will allow you to enroll without some sort of identification and a birth certificate, or some kind of paperwork proving who you are. Illegals don't have any of that.

[Granny Bear]

The issue was illegal aliens, not id and birth certificates. I don't know what illegals have, don't have or to what they gain access. I was; however, able to find financial aid advice and scholarship advice for "undocumented students and illegal aliens".

Now, I'm finished with the subject. I suspect there's always gonna be an excuse or reason or more research or miscommunication no matter how many websites are posted.


http://mail.dreamact.info/forum/showthread.php?p=239057
http://www.finaid.org/otheraid/undocumented.phtml

[TheRealVille]

The issue was illegal aliens, not id and birth certificates. I don't know what illegals have, don't have or to what they gain access. I was; however, able to find financial aid advice and scholarship advice for "undocumented students and illegal aliens".

Now, I'm finished with the subject. I suspect there's always gonna be an excuse or reason or more research or miscommunication no matter how many websites are posted.


http://mail.dreamact.info/forum/showthread.php?p=239057
http://www.finaid.org/otheraid/undocumented.phtml

I would suggest you read the last link you posted. Actually, after looking over the first link, I would suggest you read it also, including the "Do I qualify?" link.

[Hoot Gibson]

Does anybody really believe that illegal aliens have any trouble enrolling in colleges in this country? Seriously?

Illegal aliens have no trouble getting forged documents and the profit motive for colleges to accept anybody who can afford to attend their schools is substantial. There is a whole lot of winking and nodding going on when it comes to getting illegals admitted to US colleges.

[TheRealVille]

Does anybody really believe that illegal aliens have any trouble enrolling in colleges in this country? Seriously?

Illegal aliens have no trouble getting forged documents and the profit motive for colleges to accept anybody who can afford to attend their schools is substantial. There is a whole lot of winking and nodding going on when it comes to getting illegals admitted to US colleges.

Feel free to prove that this happens, and isn't just your opinion of what goes on. I know what all my kid had to have to get into college. Anyway, if they are going to college, they will benefit the US. Unlike some of our own dope head kids that are drawing a government check for nothing. I would rather support one Mexican trying to better their self, and contribute to society, than a slug taking my money for nothing.

[Hoot Gibson]

Feel free to prove that this happens, and isn't just your opinion of what goes on. I know what all my kid had to have to get into college.

:lame: Why should I spend one minute proving a fact that any simpleton can prove to himself with a Google search? You made the claim that illegal immigrants do not attend American universities and the only "proof" that you provided was some written requirement that enrollees must have valid identification. I have a hard time believing that you are so naive that you think that including a requirement for identification in a college admissions guide deters children of illegal immigrants from attending college in this country. I think that you just posted without doing much thinking and now you want somebody else to do the heavy lifting for you.

[TheRealVille]

:lame: Why should I spend one minute proving a fact that any simpleton can prove to himself with a Google search? You made the claim that illegal immigrants do not attend American universities and the only "proof" that you provided was some written requirement that enrollees must have valid identification. I have a hard time believing that you are so naive that you think that including a requirement for identification in a college admissions guide deters children of illegal immigrants from attending college in this country. I think that you just posted without doing much thinking and now you want somebody else to do the heavy lifting for you.

Why don't you talk about the whole post? BTW, children of illegal immigrants aren't illegal,if they are born in the US, are US citizens, as much as you are.

[TheRealVille]

Does anybody really believe that illegal aliens have any trouble enrolling in colleges in this country? Seriously?

Illegal aliens have no trouble getting forged documents and the profit motive for colleges to accept anybody who can afford to attend their schools is substantial. There is a whole lot of winking and nodding going on when it comes to getting illegals admitted to US colleges.

I don't know for a fact, and I bet you don't either, that your family came here legal. Who's to say your "first" family member that came here went through the process the right way, and that their "kids" weren't naturalized?

[Hoot Gibson]

I don't know for a fact, and I bet you don't either, that your family came here legal. Who's to say your "first" family member that came here went through the process the right way, and that their "kids" weren't naturalized?

If children of illegals are "undocumented," then they are illegal until they prove otherwise. Some are anchor babies and some moved here from Mexico after they were born. My family migrated to eastern Kentucky in the late 1700s, so whether they were legal immigrants or not, I am pretty sure that my parents were not illegals.

I don't blame illegal aliens for coming to this country and working but I do object to American taxpayers picking up the tab to provide in state tuition and other benefits to them. I also object to our federal government refusing to enforce our immigration laws.

Controlling immigration is a federal responsibility and it is a shame that our federal government is more interested in opening Arizona's borders to illegal aliens and feuding with GOP governors than it is in enforcing the laws that Barack Obama swore to uphold.

[TheRealVille]

If children of illegals are "undocumented," then they are illegal until they prove otherwise. Some are anchor babies and some moved here from Mexico after they were born. My family migrated to eastern Kentucky in the late 1700s, so whether they were legal immigrants or not, I am pretty sure that my parents were not illegals.

I don't blame illegal aliens for coming to this country and working but I do object to American taxpayers picking up the tab to provide in state tuition and other benefits to them. I also object to our federal government refusing to enforce our immigration laws.

Controlling immigration is a federal responsibility and it is a shame that our federal government is more interested in opening Arizona's borders to illegal aliens and feuding with GOP governors than it is in enforcing the laws that Barack Obama swore to uphold.

I'm talking about the ones that got off of the boat, not the ones that "migrated to eastern Kentucky". It had to start somewhere. The federal government is deporting illegals in record numbers.

[Hoot Gibson]

I'm talking about the ones that got off of the boat, not the ones that "migrated to eastern Kentucky". It had to start somewhere. The federal government is deporting illegals in record numbers.

Anchor babies are U. S. citizens because that is the law. I am not sure why your think that questioning whether settlers in the 1700s were legal immigrants is relevant but my ancestors were in this country when the nation was founded. I am pretty sure that they were grandfathered in. You seem eager to change the subject away from illegal immigrants currently enrolled in American universities. I wonder why.

[TheRealVille]

Anchor babies are U. S. citizens because that is the law. I am not sure why your think that questioning whether settlers in the 1700s were legal immigrants is relevant but my ancestors were in this country when the nation was founded. I am pretty sure that they were grandfathered in. You seem eager to change the subject away from illegal immigrants currently enrolled in American universities. I wonder why.

Nope. I don't know of any illegals enrolled in college, do you? If there are illegals in college in the US, I answered that in a previous post, that you only concentrated on part of.

[Hoot Gibson]

Nope. I don't know of any illegals enrolled in college, do you? If there are illegals in college in the US, I answered that in a previous post, that you only concentrated on part of.

I do not personally know any illegal alien students but I don't know any legal college students in this area either. However, I am able to use Google well enough to generally avoid making a fool out of myself.

I suggest that you perform a Google search using the string "undocumented immigrant American college students" before going further out on a limb. It is an undisputed fact that illegal aliens can and do enroll in American colleges and in most cases there are no state or federal laws against the practice.

[TheRealVille]

Anchor babies are U. S. citizens because that is the law. I am not sure why your think that questioning whether settlers in the 1700s were legal immigrants is relevant but my ancestors were in this country when the nation was founded. I am pretty sure that they were grandfathered in. You seem eager to change the subject away from illegal immigrants currently enrolled in American universities. I wonder why.

You seem eager to change the subject away from illegals getting deported in record numbers. I wonder why?

[TheRealVille]

I do not personally know any illegal alien students but I don't know any legal college students in this area either. However, I am able to use Google well enough to generally avoid making a fool out of myself.

I suggest that you perform a Google search using the string "undocumented immigrant American college students" before going further out on a limb. It is an undisputed fact that illegal aliens can and do enroll in American colleges and in most cases there are no state or federal laws against the practice.

I didn't make the statement, you did. You have the responsibility of burden of proof, I don't. It's not my job to search anything.


Ok, I'll oblige you. This might help you to understand the law. BTW, we know you are for states rights to do what they want. But, you really don't mean in this case, right?

Higher education obstacles and possibilities

The Urban Institute estimates that 65,000 undocumented students—that is, children born abroad who are not U.S. citizens or legal residents—graduate from U.S. high schools each year. These children are guaranteed an education in U.S. public schools through grade 12, but may face legal and financial barriers to higher education. What can you tell undocumented students about their options for college?

There are three main areas on the path to higher education where undocumented students may have special concerns or face obstacles: admission, tuition, and financial aid.

College and university admission policies
Undocumented students may assume that they cannot legally attend college in the United States. This is not true. There is no federal or state law that prohibits the admission of undocumented immigrants to U.S. colleges and universities, public or private, nor does federal or state law require students to prove citizenship in order to enter U.S. institutions of higher education. However, institutional policies on admitting undocumented students vary.

For example, many 4-year state colleges in Virginia (following a 2003 recommendation by the state attorney general) require applicants to submit proof of citizenship or legal residency, and refuse admission to students without documentation. This policy is not, however, a state law. In many other states, public institutions accept undocumented students but treat them as foreign students so that they are ineligible for state aid and for the lower tuition charged to state residents.

College and university tuition policies
An issue generating controversy today is the question of whether undocumented students residing in a U.S. state should be eligible for the lower tuition rates that state residents pay for their state's public colleges and universities. Many state institutions charge undocumented students out-of-state tuition fees (even if the student is a longtime resident of the state), and this policy can put college out of their reach financially.

In recent years, 10 states—Texas, California, New York, Utah, Illinois, Washington, Nebraska, New Mexico, Oklahoma, and Kansas—have passed laws that permit undocumented students to pay in-state tuition rates under certain conditions. For example, California's law requires the undocumented student to have attended a state high school for three or more years, to have graduated from a state high school, and to sign an affidavit promising to file an application to legalize his immigration status. Counselors in any of these states should familiarize themselves with that state's specific prerequisites.

In 2007, the DREAM (Development, Relief and Education for Alien Minors) Act was reintroduced in the House and Senate. If passed, this legislation would permit undocumented students to begin a 6-year process leading to permanent legal status if, among other requirements, they graduate from a U.S. high school and were brought to the U.S. at least 5 years before the legislation is signed into law at the age of 15 or younger. To complete the process they would, within the 6-year period, be required to graduate from a community college, complete at least 2 years towards a 4-year degree, or serve at least 2 years in the U.S. military. These individuals would qualify for in-state tuition rates in all states during the 6-year period.

Federal, state, and institutional financial aid policies
Undocumented students cannot legally receive any federally funded student financial aid, including loans, grants, scholarships, and work-study programs.

In most states, they are not eligible for state financial aid. Less than a handful of states grant eligibility for state financial aid to undocumented students who qualify for in-state tuition, and this has proven a contentious issue, so the situation is subject to change.

Most private scholarship funds and foundations require applicants to be U.S. citizens or legal residents, but there are some that do not have this requirement. See the "Resources" section to the right for a link to a list of scholarships that may be available to undocumented students.

Private colleges and universities set their own financial aid policies. Some are willing to give scholarships and other aid to undocumented students.

http://professionals.collegeboard.com/gu...d-students

[Granny Bear]

A lot of this information was included in the Dream link that I provided earlier. The last link that I posted was a guide to financial assistance for undocumented students as well as illegal aliens.

I do believe that you have just proven my statement!!
:eyeroll:
I'll tell you one thing, debating something with you RealVille is a lot like beating your head against a brick wall.

[Hoot Gibson]

[INDENT]

Once stopped, they can check their credentials/id, just like they do you. They just can't see a Mexican person in a car, doing nothing illegal, and stop them because they look Mexican, then ask to see their credentials/id.

You didn't get "served" by me. I just pointed out that you were posting false information. That is how the uninformed rumors get started, just exactly they way somebody got you to believe the false stuff you posted.

The last bold is all false. You can't get into any school without ID and credentials. Think about what you say. Do you know of any college that will let you enroll without proper ID, and being a citizen of the US, or at least have papers showing that you are legally here. Abosolutely zero Mexicans are in school here, any school, without at least some kind of proof of ID, which means they have some kind of paper allowing them to be in the US. The rights propaganda has you by the ears.

[B]Do a little research and find me just one school that will allow you to enroll without some sort of identification and a birth certificate, or some kind of paperwork proving who you are[/B]. Illegals don't have any of that.

[/INDENT]
Just a little bit of research can go a long way to prevent such mistakes. For example, here is one example of the many illegal immigrants from Mexico attending American universities.

[INDENT]

After a False Dawn, Anxiety for Illegal Immigrant Students

MILWAUKEE — It was exhilarating for Maricela Aguilar to stand on the steps of the federal courthouse here one day last summer and reveal for the first time in public that she is an illegal immigrant.

“It’s all about losing that shame of who you are,” Ms. Aguilar, a college student who was born in Mexico but has lived in the United States without legal documents since she was 3 years old, said of her “coming out” at a rally in June.

Those were heady times for thousands of immigrant students who declared their illegal status during a nationwide campaign for a bill in Congress that would have put them on a path to legal residence. In December that bill, known as the Dream Act, passed the House, then failed in the Senate. click here for more from the New York Times

[/INDENT]

[Hoot Gibson]

A lot of this information was included in the Dream link that I provided earlier. The last link that I posted was a guide to financial assistance for undocumented students as well as illegal aliens.

I do believe that you have just proven my statement!!
:eyeroll:
I'll tell you one thing, debating something with you RealVille is a lot like beating your head against a brick wall.

If you bang your head against a brick wall hard enough, the brick may yield. Don't expect RV to admit a mistake no matter how much evidence you give him. Just be content to convince everybody else that he is wrong. :biggrin:

[TheRealVille]

A lot of this information was included in the Dream link that I provided earlier. The last link that I posted was a guide to financial assistance for undocumented students as well as illegal aliens.

I do believe that you have just proven my statement!!
:eyeroll:
I'll tell you one thing, debating something with you RealVille is a lot like beating your head against a brick wall.

It's all about whether they can legally go to school or not, and I think that link proved my point. At first I didn't think it was legal for them to go to school here, now I know they legally can, on their way to citizenship. I'm glad I looked it over. I say again, I'll gladly pay for a mexican to go to school, so as to be a contribution to the US economy. It might help offset all the no good dope heads I help now.

[TheRealVille]

[INDENT]

[/INDENT]
Just a little bit of research can go a long way to prevent such mistakes. For example, here is one example of the many illegal immigrants from Mexico attending American universities.

[INDENT][/INDENT]

Hoot, she's lived here, and went to school since she was 3. That makes her legal to continue her way through school. This girl is legally allowed to continue school through grade 12. She won't receive federal aid to continue through college, but she can receive private aid through the university. You don't read well, do you? One more time, I'll gladly help her to contribute to the US, if it would offset one dope head welfare person I unwillingly help now. At least she will work and help the economy, unlike a lot of "citizens" we have now.

[Hoot Gibson]

There is no reason that Americans should have to pay for either illegal aliens or dope heads who refuse to work and subsist on welfare to go to school. Let Mexicans pay for Mexicans to attend college.

[TheRealVille]

There is no reason that Americans should have to pay for either illegal aliens or dope heads who refuse to work and subsist on welfare to go to school. Let Mexicans pay for Mexicans to attend college.

The girl you posted about, if you will just take the time to read, can't receive federal aid to pay for her college.

[Hoot Gibson]

The girl you posted about, if you will just take the time to read, can't receive federal aid to pay for her college.

I never said that she could. I posted the article to show that your statement about there being absolutely zero illegal Mexican immigrants in any American university was factually without merit.

If you want to state matter of factly that zero illegal immigrants receive federal aid to attend college, then go right ahead. Our federal government thinks nothing of ignoring immigration laws, so why anybody would believe that no federally guaranteed loans are made to illegal immigrants is a mystery to me, but go ahead and walk out to the end of that limb. nicker:

Before you do, recall that illegal immigrants flooded into the halls of Congress when the Dreams bill was being debated. The Obama administration and liberal Democrats in the US Senate care nothing about deporting easily apprehended illegal aliens. I know that you trust the bogus stats that this administration publicizes showing that up is down and millions of jobs have been created....err...saved....or make that "supported," but I don't believe their stats on any subject.

What I see is illegal immigrants rallying in large numbers in support of liberal Democrats and Eric Holder's G-men nowhere to be found.

[TheRealVille]

A lot of this information was included in the Dream link that I provided earlier. The last link that I posted was a guide to financial assistance for undocumented students as well as illegal aliens.

I do believe that you have just proven my statement!!
:eyeroll:
I'll tell you one thing, debating something with you RealVille is a lot like beating your head against a brick wall.

You come in feigning innocence on topics, yet it is plain to see that you are just another mouthpiece for the right. Hell, if I didn't know better, I'd say that you could be my mother-in-law. She does stuff, like feigning ignorance on subjects, while trying to propagate for the right.


I'll have to leave you and Hoot, to hug about stuff from the right. It's my bedtime. I'm in the middle of a months worth of new job training.

[SKINNYPIG]

Feel free to prove that this happens, and isn't just your opinion of what goes on. I know what all my kid had to have to get into college. Anyway, if they are going to college, they will benefit the US. Unlike some of our own dope head kids that are drawing a government check for nothing. I would rather support one Mexican trying to better their self, and contribute to society, than a slug taking my money for nothing.

I wonder what the chances are that any of those Mexicans you are so willing to help are "slugs taking your money". You give me the impression that only legal, white American students are slugs and all illegal Mexicans Are angels out to better themselves.

[TheRealVille]

I wonder what the chances are that any of those Mexicans you are so willing to help are "slugs taking your money". You give me the impression that only legal, white American students are slugs and all illegal Mexicans angels are out to better themselves.

No, I didn't say that. I said, that I would gladly help a mexican get through school, and contribute to our economy, if it would offset one dope head welfare person. The no good dope head Americans I named were the dope head welfare people/kids that don't work, that I have to pay for. Not American students. Did you see anywhere in my posts where I insinuated that I was speaking of American students?

[SKINNYPIG]

No, I didn't say that. I said, that I would gladly help a mexican get through school, and contribute to our economy, if it would offset one dope head welfare person. The no good dope head Americans I named were the dope head welfare people/kids that don't work, that I have to pay for. Not American students. Did you see anywhere in my posts where I insinuated that I was speaking of American students?

My bad then. Since the subject was financial aide to illegals, and illegals attending public universities, and not slugs that draw welfare...I guess I wrongfully assumed. And yes, I know what happens when I assume.

[TheRealVille]

My bad then. Since the subject was financial aide to illegals, and illegals attending public universities, and not slugs that draw welfare...I guess I wrongfully assumed. And yes, I know what happens when I assume.

Welfare slugs/ life long check drawers are a big pet peeve of mine. I worry a lot more about paying their way, than someone who will help the economy. Of course, I'm assuming that a college educated person isn't very apt to get on the draw, and will help out in the long run, after school.