[TheRealThing]

I am a union pipefitter out of huntington. My dad was an ashland hand. Maybe your side did ok, I know for a fact the 80's were very lean for industrial.if you were really there, and honest about it, you would tell how the union construction faired during those years.Being a support trade for the industrial side for fitters, and boilermakers, you should remember that carpenters dont work when they dont, at least on industrial jobs

LOL, carpenters only support fitters when they need scaffolding to get up in the pipe rack or something. That kind of work constitutes a very small part of what carpenters do. But, that is one reason we do have so much work. We support all crafts in many different areas. Carpenters normally fill the role of superintendents on actual construction jobs, where something is actually being built, not just coming in for a turnaround or running a new line up in a pipe rack which, by the way, wouldn't even be there if carpenters didn't build the foundations for it. Carpenters are the first to come onto the job and the last to leave. We have the broadest scope of work of any of the crafts. IF you were really there, you'd know that. I'll grant you, on shutdowns and turnarounds a mechanical type often is the head dog. Industrial jobs do employ many pipe fitters and boilermakers, especially in the refining and chemical industry. However, one sees many more ironworkers in the industrial setting outside of refineries.

In my experience the carpenter superintendent was the first man on the job. I sat up the job trailer, and laid out all the laydown areas and support locations such as break trailers, as well as fencing etc. to establish the various interim life safety requirements. I laid out the structure/structures, put up batter boards for building lines, and supervised the excavations. Carpenters don't stop until the last cabinet is gleaming in the light from a fixture that is in the ceilings we put in. My last official act on the job was usually to hand the client his keys. In the industrial arena same deal. A carpenter is always a super or general foreman over the very same concerns. The only difference being more emphasis is normally necessarily given to foundations since they support massive equipment, vessels towers and the like. We put in every trailer and build anything from temporary steps to the dance floors you guys need to work off of in relative safety.

Most of the time you talk like you got all this stuff down pat but, reading your posts reveals you to be somewhat limited experience-wise. At any rate, maybe you didn't get a lot of calls from the BA in Huntington up in your holler. But, I guarantee there was work going on at Ashland Oil in the 80's. Your dad was an Ashland Oil hand or a Local 248 hand? If he was the latter, chances are good I knew him.

[TheRealVille]

You sure do like tooting your superintenant horn. I have worked a lot of places, and have saw exactly one carpenter super over mechanical work. On cival work, I'll give you that one, but no, carpenters are almost never over mechanical.at any rate, industrial times were very tough in the 80's. My dad barely kept his head above water at that time, and was in one of the better locals.

LOL, carpenters only support fitters when they need scaffolding to get up in the pipe rack or something. That kind of work constitutes a very small part of what carpenters do. But, that is one reason we do have so much work. We support all crafts in many different areas. Carpenters normally fill the role of superintendents on actual construction jobs, where something is actually being built, not just coming in for a turnaround or running a new line up in a pipe rack which, by the way, wouldn't even be there if carpenters didn't build the foundations for it. Carpenters are the first to come onto the job and the last to leave. We have the broadest scope of work of any of the crafts. IF you were really there, you'd know that. I'll grant you, on shutdowns and turnarounds a mechanical type often is the head dog. Industrial jobs do employ many pipe fitters and boilermakers, especially in the refining and chemical industry. However, one sees many more ironworkers in the industrial setting outside of refineries.

In my experience the carpenter superintendent was the first man on the job. I sat up the job trailer, and laid out all the laydown areas and support locations such as break trailers, as well as fencing etc. to establish the various interim life safety requirements. I laid out the structure/structures, put up batter boards for building lines, and supervised the excavations. Carpenters don't stop until the last cabinet is gleaming in the light from a fixture that is in the ceilings we put in. My last official act on the job was usually to hand the client his keys. In the industrial arena same deal. A carpenter is always a super or general foreman over the very same concerns. The only difference being more emphasis is normally necessarily given to foundations since they support massive equipment, vessels towers and the like. We put in every trailer and build anything from temporary steps to the dance floors you guys need to work off of in relative safety.

Most of the time you talk like you got all this stuff down pat but, reading your posts reveals you to be somewhat limited experience-wise. At any rate, maybe you didn't get a lot of calls from the BA in Huntington up in your holler. But, I guarantee there was work going on at Ashland Oil in the 80's. Your dad was an Ashland Oil hand or a Local 248 hand? If he was the latter, chances are good I knew him.

[TheRealThing]

You sure do like tooting your superintenant horn. I have worked a lot of places, and have saw exactly one carpenter super over mechanical work. On cival work, I'll give you that one, but no, carpenters are almost never over mechanical.at any rate, industrial times were very tough in the 80's. My dad barely kept his head above water at that time, and was in one of the better locals.

LOL, yeah, unlike the more modest folks on here who sit around and brag about how much money they've got and how smart they are. You're dodging my assertion, you work turnarounds and shutdowns a lot. The only work mechanical people run are mechanical jobs, which in many cases are glorified maintenance endeavours. The reason being, you guys aren't trained. Running pipe and valves constitute most of the work on shutdowns or fuel conversions but, only a small percentage of the scope of work that happens on a big project. And civil work, as you point out, falls within my sphere of expertise as well. As for your conviction about what kind of work fitters run, I will say this. Carpenters were the supers on all the new units that have been put in over the years at the Ashland Oil now MAP refineries, including the coal liquification plant. Same thing at Armco Steel now AK Steel. I worked these jobs, I know what I'm talking about. And, I had a good run during the 1980's due to the fact that demand was up and my skills cover a broad application.

You said your dad was an Ashland hand. I asked if he was a 248 hand, my best friend is in that local, between the two of us we know everybody there except maybe some of the apprentices. So tell me, what were you talking about when you said your dad was a Ashland hand. Are you talking about the oil chemical & atomic worker unions at the refinery, or a plumbers and steamfitter local union? Those are the only 3 union locals in the Ashland area.

[TheRealVille]

I've worked on almost all of the major unit builds in Ashland oil since 1990. I can name just about every project manager and superintendant on every new unit built, and turnaround, on the mechanical end, and none were carpenters, save one superintendant. My dad was 248, and pushed on most of those units. I was there.QUOTE=TheRealThing;1458737]LOL, yeah, unlike the more modest folks on here who sit around and brag about how much money they've got and how smart they are. You're dodging my assertion, you work turnarounds and shutdowns a lot. The only work mechanical people run are mechanical jobs, which in many cases are glorified maintenance endeavours. The reason being, you guys aren't trained. Running pipe and valves constitute most of the work on shutdowns or fuel conversions but, only a small percentage of the scope of work that happens on a big project. And civil work, as you point out, falls within my sphere of expertise as well. As for your conviction about what kind of work fitters run, I will say this. Carpenters were the supers on all the new units that have been put in over the years at the Ashland Oil now MAP refineries, including the coal liquification plant. Same thing at Armco Steel now AK Steel. I worked these jobs, I know what I'm talking about. And, I had a good run during the 1980's due to the fact that demand was up and my skills cover a broad application.

You said your dad was an Ashland hand. I asked if he was a 248 hand, my best friend is in that local, between the two of us we know everybody there except maybe some of the apprentices. So tell me, what were you talking about when you said your dad was a Ashland hand. Are you talking about the oil chemical & atomic worker unions at the refinery, or a plumbers and steamfitter local union? Those are the only 3 union locals in the Ashland area.[/QUOTE]

[TheRealVille]

I went private to save you the embarassment of showing that I was on every major build since 90, and can name almost all mechanical supers.

[vector]

Believe whatever you want. History tells a different story.

i beleive reagan increased the military budget by 43% that creates alot of goverment jobs that also started the deficit spending like the goverment
job you have

[Real Badman]

world war III.