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12-11-2011, 03:11 PM
The NFL is considering suspending Pittsburgh Steelers linebacker James Harrison one or two games for his helmet-to-helmet hit on Cleveland Browns quarterback Colt McCoy, according to an NFL source.
The debate about whether Harrison will be suspended will continue at NFL offices Monday morning. But at the very least, he will be hit with a hefty fine for his latest controversial hit.
Harrison would be the first player suspended under the NFL's enhanced enforcement on player safety violations.
Ndamukong Suh became the first player suspended for on-field play earlier this season, and the league is strongly considering doling out its second suspension in two weeks.
Harrison was fined $125,000 for illegal hits last season. He maintained his innocence for Thursday's hit.
"From what I understand, once the quarterback leaves the pocket, he's considered a runner," Harrison said. "All the defenseless(ness) and liberties that a quarterback has in the pocket are gone and you can tackle him just as he's a running back. The hit wasn't late, so I really don't understand why it was called."
However, McCoy had thrown the ball before the hit, so the quarterback was considered a defenseless player.
Adam Schefter is ESPN's NFL Insider. ESPN.com's Jamison Hensley contributed to this report.
The debate about whether Harrison will be suspended will continue at NFL offices Monday morning. But at the very least, he will be hit with a hefty fine for his latest controversial hit.
Harrison would be the first player suspended under the NFL's enhanced enforcement on player safety violations.
Ndamukong Suh became the first player suspended for on-field play earlier this season, and the league is strongly considering doling out its second suspension in two weeks.
Harrison was fined $125,000 for illegal hits last season. He maintained his innocence for Thursday's hit.
"From what I understand, once the quarterback leaves the pocket, he's considered a runner," Harrison said. "All the defenseless(ness) and liberties that a quarterback has in the pocket are gone and you can tackle him just as he's a running back. The hit wasn't late, so I really don't understand why it was called."
However, McCoy had thrown the ball before the hit, so the quarterback was considered a defenseless player.
Adam Schefter is ESPN's NFL Insider. ESPN.com's Jamison Hensley contributed to this report.
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12-11-2011, 07:37 PM
What a bunch of pansys
12-11-2011, 08:46 PM
^Agreed! The hit was nasty. But the NFL is getting so soft, what about when players wore leather helmets with no face masks? I'm not saying he shouldn't be fined. But I am saying he should not be fined for the hit laid on McCoy.
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12-11-2011, 09:15 PM
I agree the NFL is soft compared to the days gone by, but this guy knows the rules and he continues to play thug ball.
12-12-2011, 12:24 AM
Spud6 Wrote:^Agreed! The hit was nasty. But the NFL is getting so soft, what about when players wore leather helmets with no face masks? I'm not saying he shouldn't be fined. But I am saying he should not be fined for the hit laid on McCoy.
WHen they had leather helmets i doubt they used there head as a weapon like he does. HE knew that the ball was getting thrown. HE has been warned and fined numerous times.
12-12-2011, 12:35 AM
^And everytime he's been fined, he's told the Nfl that he is not going to change the way he plays the game.
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12-12-2011, 12:52 AM
How exactly is he still playing dirty?
The dude comes up and hits the QB while the QB is still in his throwing motion.
What in the hell does leading with your head have to do with a hit?
What i mean is, how do you know lead with your head when your diving to tackle a player?
this has caused so many screwups these past two years because of players leting up when they shouldnt have to.
If i was this guy, id lay every freaking QB out that i seen on every play after the ball is long gone.
If they wanna call him dirty, then he might as well start playing dirty, because right now, IMHO hes playing clean football.
Now you wanna say thug, look no further than the stomping act Suh put on. Thats not football, laying a QB out on a clean play with a good hit is football.
The dude comes up and hits the QB while the QB is still in his throwing motion.
What in the hell does leading with your head have to do with a hit?
What i mean is, how do you know lead with your head when your diving to tackle a player?
this has caused so many screwups these past two years because of players leting up when they shouldnt have to.
If i was this guy, id lay every freaking QB out that i seen on every play after the ball is long gone.
If they wanna call him dirty, then he might as well start playing dirty, because right now, IMHO hes playing clean football.
Now you wanna say thug, look no further than the stomping act Suh put on. Thats not football, laying a QB out on a clean play with a good hit is football.
12-12-2011, 04:13 AM
.
12-12-2011, 03:14 PM
Harrison needs a time machine to go back and play 20 years ago. Or any other era where he belongs, but this certainly isn't the one.
12-13-2011, 12:27 AM
James Harrison should not be fined or suspended for his hit on Colt McCoy. Although the shot appears to be violent and malicious when viewed in slow motion, the bang-bang nature of the play should be considered when handing out fines or suspension.
McCoy ventured from the pocket with the ball tucked under his arm until he made the last-minute decision to toss the ball to a teammate in the flat. Harrison had already committed to making the hit. The size disparity, force of the hit and frame-by-frame breakdown of the play has made Harrison's hit look like one of the most violent delivered in recent years.
While I certainly applaud the NFL's efforts to increase player safety, I don't think you can legislate big hits out of a game played with some of the biggest and fastest athletes on the planet.
McCoy ventured from the pocket with the ball tucked under his arm until he made the last-minute decision to toss the ball to a teammate in the flat. Harrison had already committed to making the hit. The size disparity, force of the hit and frame-by-frame breakdown of the play has made Harrison's hit look like one of the most violent delivered in recent years.
While I certainly applaud the NFL's efforts to increase player safety, I don't think you can legislate big hits out of a game played with some of the biggest and fastest athletes on the planet.
12-13-2011, 01:14 PM
NFL has ruled for a one game suspension
12-13-2011, 02:18 PM
Well deserved...
12-13-2011, 05:53 PM
NEWARKCATHOLICFAN Wrote:I agree the NFL is soft compared to the days gone by, but this guy knows the rules and he continues to play thug ball.
Thug ball? What the hell is "thug ball"? He's freakin' tackling people! Shit! He's not trying to hurt anyone. He tried to change once, and it was horrible, almost got hurt himself. This just happens.
I don't know what it is with you and calling everything "thug", but you need to start actually saying what you mean by it. He's not out their trying to stomp people's faces. He actually checks on the people he lays out. The dude is a good guy, not a thug.
.
12-13-2011, 05:53 PM
Two players have been suspended for on-the-field actions under Goodell. Buccaneers DT Albert Haynesworth was suspended for five games after he stomped on the head of Ravens OL Andre Gurode when Haynesworth was with the Titans and Gurode was with the Cowboys. Gurode wasn't wearing a helmet, and suffered severe lacerations to his head. He missed the rest of the season and Haynesworth was thrown out of the game.
On Thanksgiving, the world witnessed Lions DT Ndamukong Suh stomp on the arm of Packers OL Evan Dietrich-Smith after shoving his head into the ground in a post-whistle altercation. Suh was also thrown out of the game along with his 15-yard penalty.
One doesn't need code breaking experience to see the common theme. Cowardly actions in a post-whistle environment that led to the removal of the player from the game.
No one is comparing the gutless actions of Haynesworth and Suh to that of Harrison - or at least if they are, it's because they don't want to see the differences. Suspending Harrison would mean the league is putting him in the same light as those two.
That's categorically false. But if he is suspended, it wouldn't be the first time Goodell established his own precedent for his own reasons. NFL life before Week 6 of 2010 was completely different than it was after it. After a few notable helmet-to-helmet hits, two from Harrison, Goodell began his fundraising campaign.
Changing the rules on the fly, Goodell decided to use Harrison as his main target in his war against the rules of his own league. In a week where he sought brutal financial justice for two helmet-to-helmet hits from Harrison, the league was selling an image of one of those hits on its web site.
They liked the image so much, it was the photo they used to tease their full line of pictures they were selling. It wasn't until someone pointed out the hypocrisy they took them down.
Obviously Goodell does not personally approve which photos the league would put up for sale, but even more obvious is the reasoning behind why whomever chose it. That's the culture within the league. It's obvious to those selecting the pictures that would be the best one to use.
Goodell wanted to change that, and made moves toward that new culture, but didn't inform the league's employees, including the players, until after it happened. Closing the barn door after the horses have escaped doesn't make sense.
Yet, he's doing it again.
A suspension in this case opens the league up to a level of regulatory involvement no sport has ever seen. They have as must justification to suspend Harrison as they do to suspend at least one player on every team this season.
That will, without question, change the league. Imagine the current culture is in place last year. Had the Bears defeated the Packers in the NFC Championship Game, how does Goodell justify not suspending Bears DE Julius Peppers for the Super Bowl? The hit he put on Aaron Rodgers was considerably worse than what Harrison did to McCoy.
What are the odds of something like that happening in the playoffs this year? What if the Ravens are hosting the Steelers for the AFC Championship Game and Goodell suspends Terrell Suggs for a hit that only used to garner a fine?
Most will try to suggest Harrison is a "repeat offender." He seems more like a "repeat accused." The league has successfully painted him as a bad buy; the league's ultimate heel character. It all stems from Week 6 of 2010. What people choose to ignore is the fact Harrison - unlike several other players in the league, including Ray Lewis, Cullen Jenkins and Dunta Robinson - has not been flagged or fined for anything either the game officials or the league view as a "dirty hit."
Harrison Haters will be shocked to read this, but, Harrison has actually been the most compliant player in all of this. He successfully changed the way he played. He wasn't happy about it (and a litany of comments aimed at Goodell this offseason supports that assessment), but he fell in line.
Robinson's done the same thing more often, and he's not being suspended. Richard Seymour just punched yet another player in an on-field incident, he was fined $30,000. That's his third fine this season alone.
A suspension now only shows Goodell is acting out of emotion. He's making it personal, and in doing that, he's ignoring historical precedent. He didn't like or appreciate Harrison's negative comments about him and he's been calculating his payback ever since.
But that's off the field stuff. Goodell suspends people all the time for off the field stuff. On the field? Stomp on someone after having received several fines and penalties for dirty play is the current grounds for suspension. Those are obvious. Hit a guy in the head, it's 25 grand. But now, Goodell has his patsy right where he wants him. He gets his own double-victory; message sent to the players that he's still in control of them, and personal revenge on Harrison, the guy he profits from while using him as his regulatory guinea pig. He can offer up Harrison as a sacrifice in his attempt to display concern for the health of players when the league will ultimately be sued by this generation of players for the amount of concussions they sustained in their careers.
Goodell created the "repeat offender" stigma, and has no issue with the media running with the phrase.
What's bogus about that is "repeat offender" is the NFL's Scarlet Letter. If he's a repeat offender, at what point do we enter conversations about statutes of limitations? How many games will the league force players to compete with the sword of Damocles hanging over their heads?
Maybe not "players." Maybe just "Harrison."
A player who was fined at the start of Goodell's campaign, but hasn't been fined since then should not be suspended while players who have multiple offenses well after the campaign began aren't hearing the word. The league even rescinded a large portion of the fines Harrison received last year, noting he was playing the game the "correct" way. He hasn't been flagged or fined or any similar offense all season, and he's hit the quarterback plenty often.
Goodell's personal vendetta will become policy with the suspension of Harrison, and fans across the league - not just Steelers fans - should be outraged.
On Thanksgiving, the world witnessed Lions DT Ndamukong Suh stomp on the arm of Packers OL Evan Dietrich-Smith after shoving his head into the ground in a post-whistle altercation. Suh was also thrown out of the game along with his 15-yard penalty.
One doesn't need code breaking experience to see the common theme. Cowardly actions in a post-whistle environment that led to the removal of the player from the game.
No one is comparing the gutless actions of Haynesworth and Suh to that of Harrison - or at least if they are, it's because they don't want to see the differences. Suspending Harrison would mean the league is putting him in the same light as those two.
That's categorically false. But if he is suspended, it wouldn't be the first time Goodell established his own precedent for his own reasons. NFL life before Week 6 of 2010 was completely different than it was after it. After a few notable helmet-to-helmet hits, two from Harrison, Goodell began his fundraising campaign.
Changing the rules on the fly, Goodell decided to use Harrison as his main target in his war against the rules of his own league. In a week where he sought brutal financial justice for two helmet-to-helmet hits from Harrison, the league was selling an image of one of those hits on its web site.
They liked the image so much, it was the photo they used to tease their full line of pictures they were selling. It wasn't until someone pointed out the hypocrisy they took them down.
Obviously Goodell does not personally approve which photos the league would put up for sale, but even more obvious is the reasoning behind why whomever chose it. That's the culture within the league. It's obvious to those selecting the pictures that would be the best one to use.
Goodell wanted to change that, and made moves toward that new culture, but didn't inform the league's employees, including the players, until after it happened. Closing the barn door after the horses have escaped doesn't make sense.
Yet, he's doing it again.
A suspension in this case opens the league up to a level of regulatory involvement no sport has ever seen. They have as must justification to suspend Harrison as they do to suspend at least one player on every team this season.
That will, without question, change the league. Imagine the current culture is in place last year. Had the Bears defeated the Packers in the NFC Championship Game, how does Goodell justify not suspending Bears DE Julius Peppers for the Super Bowl? The hit he put on Aaron Rodgers was considerably worse than what Harrison did to McCoy.
What are the odds of something like that happening in the playoffs this year? What if the Ravens are hosting the Steelers for the AFC Championship Game and Goodell suspends Terrell Suggs for a hit that only used to garner a fine?
Most will try to suggest Harrison is a "repeat offender." He seems more like a "repeat accused." The league has successfully painted him as a bad buy; the league's ultimate heel character. It all stems from Week 6 of 2010. What people choose to ignore is the fact Harrison - unlike several other players in the league, including Ray Lewis, Cullen Jenkins and Dunta Robinson - has not been flagged or fined for anything either the game officials or the league view as a "dirty hit."
Harrison Haters will be shocked to read this, but, Harrison has actually been the most compliant player in all of this. He successfully changed the way he played. He wasn't happy about it (and a litany of comments aimed at Goodell this offseason supports that assessment), but he fell in line.
Robinson's done the same thing more often, and he's not being suspended. Richard Seymour just punched yet another player in an on-field incident, he was fined $30,000. That's his third fine this season alone.
A suspension now only shows Goodell is acting out of emotion. He's making it personal, and in doing that, he's ignoring historical precedent. He didn't like or appreciate Harrison's negative comments about him and he's been calculating his payback ever since.
But that's off the field stuff. Goodell suspends people all the time for off the field stuff. On the field? Stomp on someone after having received several fines and penalties for dirty play is the current grounds for suspension. Those are obvious. Hit a guy in the head, it's 25 grand. But now, Goodell has his patsy right where he wants him. He gets his own double-victory; message sent to the players that he's still in control of them, and personal revenge on Harrison, the guy he profits from while using him as his regulatory guinea pig. He can offer up Harrison as a sacrifice in his attempt to display concern for the health of players when the league will ultimately be sued by this generation of players for the amount of concussions they sustained in their careers.
Goodell created the "repeat offender" stigma, and has no issue with the media running with the phrase.
What's bogus about that is "repeat offender" is the NFL's Scarlet Letter. If he's a repeat offender, at what point do we enter conversations about statutes of limitations? How many games will the league force players to compete with the sword of Damocles hanging over their heads?
Maybe not "players." Maybe just "Harrison."
A player who was fined at the start of Goodell's campaign, but hasn't been fined since then should not be suspended while players who have multiple offenses well after the campaign began aren't hearing the word. The league even rescinded a large portion of the fines Harrison received last year, noting he was playing the game the "correct" way. He hasn't been flagged or fined or any similar offense all season, and he's hit the quarterback plenty often.
Goodell's personal vendetta will become policy with the suspension of Harrison, and fans across the league - not just Steelers fans - should be outraged.
12-13-2011, 05:56 PM
Did you guys see this? Richard Seymour, the thug who punched Roethlisberger last year and was fined $25K - as a REPEAT OFFENDER punching yet another player, was fined $30K. Ryan Clark, who recorded a clean hit, was fined $40K for his 'repeat offense'. Both fine totals are $55K. So, consistently now, the NFL says that a punch in the face after a whistle is equal to a bang-bang tackle. ...but don't worry, there's no anti-Steeler vendetta out there!
12-13-2011, 05:57 PM
You all that think you can actually think about all this crap and the "right" way to hit people so you don't "hurt" them, probably haven't played much football. Or sat the bench.
The only thing wrong with these big hits is that some of them lead with the crown of the helmet, that's it. It should be your face going right at their chin.
The only thing wrong with these big hits is that some of them lead with the crown of the helmet, that's it. It should be your face going right at their chin.
.
12-13-2011, 06:09 PM
there needs to be a review panel of ex-PLAYERS to watch these hits and determine the punishment...not ray anderson and roger goofball.
there needs to be definitive definitions of what is and is not a legal hit...and these definitions must be taken into consideration when handing out punishment.
there needs to be accountability among the officials as well. if a flag is thrown when one wasn't necessary, or if one wasn't thrown where it should have been, the league should fine the entire officiating crew...on these types of hits.
the league needs to punish players for their conduct if no flag was thrown. and fines and other disciplinary actions need to be uniform across the board...not handed out haphazardly.
the league also needs an independent appeal process of ex-PLAYERS. how can you appeal a decision handed down by anderson/goofball to anderson/goofball?
finally the owners need to demand these things, and if not given, need to unanimously remove goofball from his dictatorship. he isn't the best person for the job, and can be easily replaced.
there needs to be definitive definitions of what is and is not a legal hit...and these definitions must be taken into consideration when handing out punishment.
there needs to be accountability among the officials as well. if a flag is thrown when one wasn't necessary, or if one wasn't thrown where it should have been, the league should fine the entire officiating crew...on these types of hits.
the league needs to punish players for their conduct if no flag was thrown. and fines and other disciplinary actions need to be uniform across the board...not handed out haphazardly.
the league also needs an independent appeal process of ex-PLAYERS. how can you appeal a decision handed down by anderson/goofball to anderson/goofball?
finally the owners need to demand these things, and if not given, need to unanimously remove goofball from his dictatorship. he isn't the best person for the job, and can be easily replaced.
12-13-2011, 06:11 PM
The NFL truely has become a joke league. Yesterday I was watching ESPN pretty much all day. Everytime there was a former player discussing this, especially a former defensive player, their response was pretty much, "will he be suspended? Probably. Should he be suspended? No." Like BigT said, he's not kicking someone when they're laying on the ground like Suh, or stomping on someone's head like Haynesworth. None of this is done in a malicious way. It's the game of football.
12-14-2011, 11:06 AM
This is strictly IMO...
Do I feel Harrison warrented a suspension? Yes...only because he has been fined and warned multiple times.
IMO, what really was the point of Harrison hitting McCoy? I mean, he had already thrown the ball. Maybe pushing him to the ground or actually "tackling" him probably would not have warrented a penalty. When I played football you were always taught to tackle with your shoulder and head on the ball. When did players begin tackling with the crown of their helmets? You can still achieve a big hit by using proper tackling. For example, #31 of the Seahawks (can't remember his name) made a textbook tackle on Steven Jackson. Stopped him dead in his tracks. Not sure why everyone cannot perform like that.
In addition, do I feel the NFL has become soft? In some instances Yes.They protect Quarterbacks way too much. This was evident by some of the crappy ref calls for personal fouls this past Sunday. When did Quaterbacks become more special than any other player on the field?
I will say that the line between necessary/unecessary roughness is blurred in the NFL.
Do I feel Harrison warrented a suspension? Yes...only because he has been fined and warned multiple times.
IMO, what really was the point of Harrison hitting McCoy? I mean, he had already thrown the ball. Maybe pushing him to the ground or actually "tackling" him probably would not have warrented a penalty. When I played football you were always taught to tackle with your shoulder and head on the ball. When did players begin tackling with the crown of their helmets? You can still achieve a big hit by using proper tackling. For example, #31 of the Seahawks (can't remember his name) made a textbook tackle on Steven Jackson. Stopped him dead in his tracks. Not sure why everyone cannot perform like that.
In addition, do I feel the NFL has become soft? In some instances Yes.They protect Quarterbacks way too much. This was evident by some of the crappy ref calls for personal fouls this past Sunday. When did Quaterbacks become more special than any other player on the field?
I will say that the line between necessary/unecessary roughness is blurred in the NFL.
12-14-2011, 11:12 AM
12-14-2011, 08:59 PM
Stardust Wrote:[Image: http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9G...Qm7yRU03Fw]
:Thumbs:
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12-14-2011, 09:03 PM
judgementday Wrote:This is strictly IMO...
Do I feel Harrison warrented a suspension? Yes...only because he has been fined and warned multiple times.
IMO, what really was the point of Harrison hitting McCoy? I mean, he had already thrown the ball. Maybe pushing him to the ground or actually "tackling" him probably would not have warrented a penalty. When I played football you were always taught to tackle with your shoulder and head on the ball. When did players begin tackling with the crown of their helmets? You can still achieve a big hit by using proper tackling. For example, #31 of the Seahawks (can't remember his name) made a textbook tackle on Steven Jackson. Stopped him dead in his tracks. Not sure why everyone cannot perform like that.
In addition, do I feel the NFL has become soft? In some instances Yes.They protect Quarterbacks way too much. This was evident by some of the crappy ref calls for personal fouls this past Sunday. When did Quaterbacks become more special than any other player on the field?
I will say that the line between necessary/unecessary roughness is blurred in the NFL.
To send a message!! That's exactly why he did it. This game was a very ugly game with a close game throughout the entire game. And James hit set the tone! You think McCoy wasn't more hesitant sitting in that pocket after Harrison laid that hit? He wasn't looking only for the WR's like he was before, he was looking for Harrison! Harrison is smart!! He hit Colt to send a message! And that he did!
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