[vundy33]

Do any of you actually know what the term "Weapons of Mass Destruction" even means?

[vundy33]

You anti-war, American military haters are fucking pathetic. When we INVADED Iraq, we found mustard gas. Not that hard to find. Also, we found evidence that most of those weapons had been moved in a quickly fashion. Our special operations forces have been all over this for years. Alot are in Syria, some in Lebanon, a few in Iran and Russia. But most, in Syria. It is common knowledge in the military, especially with guys that were there for the invasion...and especially apparent with Syria's sudden gain in chemical/biological weapons over the past 6-7 years.

Wildcat, Syria and Iraq and two different animals. Saddam HAD used those weapons on his people before, many times, killing quite a bit. Syria hasn't yet, but if they did, you can expect a huge NATO response, because the WORLD, not just the USA, can't let an open and clear genocide of people take place.

This doesn't mean that we're going to "invade Syria now because they have WMD's. Saddam gave no shit about using his stockpile against anyone he wanted. President al-Assad will not do this. Like I said, if he did, he and his regime would be removed forcefully by a very strong and swift allied attack, which I'm guessing will include the US, Britain, France, Canada, Germany, UAE air forces and Navy's and the Arab Leagues.

Simple as that. Why the argument?

[Granny Bear]

Love your passion, vundy!!

[Bob Seger]

You anti-war, American military haters are fucking pathetic. When we INVADED Iraq, we found mustard gas. Not that hard to find. Also, we found evidence that most of those weapons had been moved in a quickly fashion. Our special operations forces have been all over this for years. Alot are in Syria, some in Lebanon, a few in Iran and Russia. But most, in Syria. It is common knowledge in the military, especially with guys that were there for the invasion...and especially apparent with Syria's sudden gain in chemical/biological weapons over the past 6-7 years.

Wildcat, Syria and Iraq and two different animals. Saddam HAD used those weapons on his people before, many times, killing quite a bit. Syria hasn't yet, but if they did, you can expect a huge NATO response, because the WORLD, not just the USA, can't let an open and clear genocide of people take place.

This doesn't mean that we're going to "invade Syria now because they have WMD's. Saddam gave no shit about using his stockpile against anyone he wanted. President al-Assad will not do this. Like I said, if he did, he and his regime would be removed forcefully by a very strong and swift allied attack, which I'm guessing will include the US, Britain, France, Canada, Germany, UAE air forces and Navy's and the Arab Leagues.

Simple as that. Why the argument?

haha......very eloquently put Vundy.:Thumbs::Thumbs:

lol......Because sometimes about a dozen years or so ago, (at the age of 4), Wildcat found out he knows everything about everything.

[nky]

Some of you need to realise some of the youngsters lack wisdom that comes with age and life experiences.
"If you're not Liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not Conservative when you're 35, you have no brain."

[Bob Seger]

Some of you need to realise some of the youngsters lack wisdom that comes with age and life experiences.
"If you're not Liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not Conservative when you're 35, you have no brain."

And then there are some that flat out refuse to listen to anyone or anything that have those life experiences, and show no signs of ever doing so.

[TheRealThing]

You anti-war, American military haters are fucking pathetic. When we INVADED Iraq, we found mustard gas. Not that hard to find. Also, we found evidence that most of those weapons had been moved in a quickly fashion. Our special operations forces have been all over this for years. Alot are in Syria, some in Lebanon, a few in Iran and Russia. But most, in Syria. It is common knowledge in the military, especially with guys that were there for the invasion...and especially apparent with Syria's sudden gain in chemical/biological weapons over the past 6-7 years.

Wildcat, Syria and Iraq and two different animals. Saddam HAD used those weapons on his people before, many times, killing quite a bit. Syria hasn't yet, but if they did, you can expect a huge NATO response, because the WORLD, not just the USA, can't let an open and clear genocide of people take place.

This doesn't mean that we're going to "invade Syria now because they have WMD's. Saddam gave no shit about using his stockpile against anyone he wanted. President al-Assad will not do this. Like I said, if he did, he and his regime would be removed forcefully by a very strong and swift allied attack, which I'm guessing will include the US, Britain, France, Canada, Germany, UAE air forces and Navy's and the Arab Leagues.

Simple as that. Why the argument?

:Thumbs: Now that's the kind of post I would expect a war veteran to make. But to your question, "Why the argument?"

It's as simple as this, all liberals, want to blame the republicans for the ills of this world. And, since George W was our last 2 term republican president, him in particular. They do this because it is far easier to slam somebody than it is to offer a better plan on how to do something. And playing the quintessential Captain Obvious, they sit back after great men make brave decisions and heckle. They are always on a mission to make republicans look stupid. The voting base of the liberal movement is quite prepared to do their part. For example, they know all the congressional democratic 'big guns' were in favor of, and even demanded, we invade Iraq. But, after the fact, they feign innocence of the matter because it seems to be a politically beneficial position for them to assume in today's climate. So, even though democratic supporters know better, they circle the wagons in support of the 'adjusted' democrat position, and point their fingers at conservatives and the military.

Here's the routine; (1st) make up a lie or plot to bring disgrace on conservatives. (2nd) repeat the lie over and over ad nauseum (3rd) after enough time has elapsed act like anyone not accepting said lie, is an idiot through ridicule and alleges about being stupid or, just out of touch with their idea of main-stream America. In other words it's brainwashing.

It means nothing to these guys to lie. They would happily spread and foster a falsehood such as there were never any WMD's in Iraq, despite world news organizations reporting on the tens of thousands of maimed and killed by Saddam's use of chemical and biological WMD's. All in an effort to make their political foes (in this case republicans) appear to be ineffective and passe legislators. This has an errosive effect on our country that is hard to overcome. From where I sit this propaganda aimed at one segment of duly elected officials of our federal government, is a form of guerilla resistance. Crippling our representative form of government by throwing the US Congress into a state of gridlock, is all quite an acceptable evil to the liberal crowd, who are literally at war with the rest of us. The fact that these folks have been elected to office to represent their constituents has gotten shoved way back on the priorities list, as they put all their efforts into changing the US into a land which reflects their ideals of social justice.

The conservatives better wake all the way up for this election. America is about to mutate into a place none of us will recognize in the very near future. If Barack gets a second term to "transform" us, we'll all be sorry. In case there is any doubt, redistribution of wealth, means to take some of what you have worked for. And just hand it over to people who don't or won't work. It's called social justice and it will apply to your money, your medical privileges, and everything else across the board.

[vector]

You anti-war, American military haters are fucking pathetic. When we INVADED Iraq, we found mustard gas. Not that hard to find. Also, we found evidence that most of those weapons had been moved in a quickly fashion. Our special operations forces have been all over this for years. Alot are in Syria, some in Lebanon, a few in Iran and Russia. But most, in Syria. It is common knowledge in the military, especially with guys that were there for the invasion...and especially apparent with Syria's sudden gain in chemical/biological weapons over the past 6-7 years.

Wildcat, Syria and Iraq and two different animals. Saddam HAD used those weapons on his people before, many times, killing quite a bit. Syria hasn't yet, but if they did, you can expect a huge NATO response, because the WORLD, not just the USA, can't let an open and clear genocide of people take place.

This doesn't mean that we're going to "invade Syria now because they have WMD's. Saddam gave no shit about using his stockpile against anyone he wanted. President al-Assad will not do this. Like I said, if he did, he and his regime would be removed forcefully by a very strong and swift allied attack, which I'm guessing will include the US, Britain, France, Canada, Germany, UAE air forces and Navy's and the Arab Leagues.

Simple as that. Why the argument?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War



[Image: http://bluegrassrivals.com/forum/picture...tureid=405]

[Wildcatk23]

haha......very eloquently put Vundy.:Thumbs::Thumbs:

lol......Because sometimes about a dozen years or so ago, (at the age of 4), Wildcat found out he knows everything about everything.

Its a little creepy how much you think about me.

[Bob Seger]

Its a little creepy how much you think about me.

Oh , you've been shown as a shining example many times. You're kind of the "anti" of how you hope your own kids turn out. I guess it's every parents worst fear and nightmare that their kids will someday become a know nothing liberal........:biggrin:

[Wildcatk23]

Oh , you've been shown as a shining example many times. You're kind of the "anti" of how you hope your own kids turn out. I guess it's every parents worst fear and nightmare that their kids will someday become a know nothing liberal........:biggrin:

Shining Example I Like that.

Now complete asshole in your case would work.

Its funny how you agree with Vundy when hes on your side but call him a Blood Hungry Kid when you disagree with him.

[Hoot Gibson]

Shining Example I Like that.

Now complete asshole in your case would work.

Its funny how you agree with Vundy when hes on your side but call him a Blood Hungry Kid when you disagree with him.

Strange choice of a sig, WC. You support a president who has a history of supporting infanticide when he was an Illinois State Senator but have a problem with Romney formerly supporting abortion? Does that make any sense? If your point is that Romney has been inconsistent on an important issue, then you must have a big issue with Obama's politically motivated switch from supporting gay marriage, to opposing gay marriage, to supporting gay marriage again. As they say, if you can't say something good about somebody...and it appears that Obama's supporters cannot find much good to say about our current president - so they talk nonstop about Romney instead.

[Wildcatk23]

Strange choice of a sig, WC. You support a president who has a history of supporting infanticide when he was an Illinois State Senator but have a problem with Romney formerly supporting abortion? Does that make any sense? If your point is that Romney has been inconsistent on an important issue, then you must have a big issue with Obama's politically motivated switch from supporting gay marriage, to opposing gay marriage, to supporting gay marriage again. As they say, if you can't say something good about somebody...and it appears that Obama's supporters cannot find much good to say about our current president - so they talk nonstop about Romney instead.

But yet you support Romney? After he clearly stated he supported abortion? Made money off of disposing waste? I hear daily how obama flip flops from you guys. But yet you still support Mitt?

[Hoot Gibson]

But yet you support Romney? After he clearly stated he supported abortion? Made money off of disposing waste? I hear daily how obama flip flops from you guys. But yet you still support Mitt?

Romney has actively opposed abortion for years and he never advocated allowing hospitals to put victims of botched abortions placed in laundry rooms and allowed to die in agony while withholding potentially life saving medical treatment. That is the Obama record.

[Wildcatk23]

Romney has actively opposed abortion for years and he never advocated allowing hospitals to put victims of botched abortions placed in laundry rooms and allowed to die in agony while withholding potentially life saving medical treatment. That is the Obama record.

He also openly supported abortion for many years. While Investing in Medical-Waste Firm That Disposed of Aborted Fetuses.

[Hoot Gibson]

He also openly supported abortion for many years. While Investing in Medical-Waste Firm That Disposed of Aborted Fetuses.

So somebody like me, who opposes abortion, should support an infanticide advocate because Romney used to be pro-choice. Again, I ask the question - does that make any sense to you? Because from where I am standing, it sounds like an idiotic argument.

[Bob Seger]

Shining Example I Like that.

Now complete asshole in your case would work.

Its funny how you agree with Vundy when hes on your side but call him a Blood Hungry Kid when you disagree with him.

Uh, that would be "shining example" of what not to be, junior.

Praised Vundy time and time again on here. It was funny though to see him put you in your place... That sure was a good one, wasn't it?...lol

[TheRealVille]

You anti-war, American military haters are fucking pathetic. When we INVADED Iraq, we found mustard gas. Not that hard to find. Also, we found evidence that most of those weapons had been moved in a quickly fashion. Our special operations forces have been all over this for years. Alot are in Syria, some in Lebanon, a few in Iran and Russia. But most, in Syria. It is common knowledge in the military, especially with guys that were there for the invasion...and especially apparent with Syria's sudden gain in chemical/biological weapons over the past 6-7 years.

Wildcat, Syria and Iraq and two different animals. Saddam HAD used those weapons on his people before, many times, killing quite a bit. Syria hasn't yet, but if they did, you can expect a huge NATO response, because the WORLD, not just the USA, can't let an open and clear genocide of people take place.

This doesn't mean that we're going to "invade Syria now because they have WMD's. Saddam gave no shit about using his stockpile against anyone he wanted. President al-Assad will not do this. Like I said, if he did, he and his regime would be removed forcefully by a very strong and swift allied attack, which I'm guessing will include the US, Britain, France, Canada, Germany, UAE air forces and Navy's and the Arab Leagues.

Simple as that. Why the argument?

Did you know of anybody that actually found WMD's, or just what you were told? Not being sarcstic, just asking.

[TheRealThing]

Uh, that would be "shining example" of what not to be, junior.

Praised Vundy time and time again on here. It was funny though to see him put you in your place... That sure was a good one, wasn't it?...lol

I totally thought so! Serving one's country in combat gives one a uniquely refined attitude when it comes to the value of our nation.

Saddam had WMD's. Only liberal pinheads would argue he didn't. Like I've said before, the only two groups of people saying there weren't WMD's in Iraq are those of the arab world who have sworn Jehad against the USA, and liberal democrats.

[TheRealVille]

I totally thought so! Serving one's country in combat gives one a uniquely refined attitude when it comes to the value of our nation.

Saddam had WMD's. Only liberal pinheads would argue he didn't. Like I've said before, the only two groups of people saying there weren't WMD's in Iraq are those of the arab world who have sworn Jehad against the USA, and liberal democrats.

Are you privy to info that the rest of us aren't?

[vector]

Did you know of anybody that actually found WMD's, or just what you were told? Not being sarcstic, just asking.

i do segar & therealthing

hh:

[Image: http://bluegrassrivals.com/forum/picture...tureid=406]

[Wildcatk23]

:poker face:

Uh, that would be "shining example" of what not to be, junior.

Praised Vundy time and time again on here. It was funny though to see him put you in your place... That sure was a good one, wasn't it?...lol

The difference between Chazz putting me in my place and the real villa putting you thing and hoot in your place is me and him still chat and carry on.

[Bob Seger]

Did you know of anybody that actually found WMD's, or just what you were told? Not being sarcstic, just asking.

I would say that you could probably get a first hand account from a Kurd that was lucky enough to survive one of Saddam's attacks.

[Bob Seger]

:poker face:

The difference between Chazz putting me in my place and the real villa putting you thing and hoot in your place is me and him still chat and carry on.

I am going to attempt to make sense out of what you just wrote. Finally guys, we found vectors string puller...lol

Do you really think that RV and I have a vendetta going on against each other? What makes you think that RV and I dont chat and carry on every once in a while?...haha....foolish little boy..


Nevertheless, it was rather humorous watching Vundy shove down your throat that you didn't have the first clue as to what you were talking about....again.irateSho

[MustangSally]

Did you know of anybody that actually found WMD's, or just what you were told? Not being sarcstic, just asking.

http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=15918
Munitions Found in Iraq Meet WMD Criteria, Official Says
By Samantha L. Quigley
American Forces Press Service

WASHINGTON, June 29, 2006 – The 500 munitions discovered throughout Iraq since 2003 and discussed in a National Ground Intelligence Center report meet the criteria of weapons of mass destruction, the center's commander said here today.

"These are chemical weapons as defined under the Chemical Weapons Convention, and yes ... they do constitute weapons of mass destruction," Army Col. John Chu told the House Armed Services Committee.

The Chemical Weapons Convention is an arms control agreement which outlaws the production, stockpiling and use of chemical weapons. It was signed in 1993 and entered into force in 1997.

The munitions found contain sarin and mustard gases, Army Lt. Gen. Michael D. Maples, director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, said. Sarin attacks the neurological system and is potentially lethal.

"Mustard is a blister agent (that) actually produces burning of any area (where) an individual may come in contact with the agent," he said. It also is potentially fatal if it gets into a person's lungs.

The munitions addressed in the report were produced in the 1980s, Maples said. Badly corroded, they could not currently be used as originally intended, Chu added.

While that's reassuring, the agent remaining in the weapons would be very valuable to terrorists and insurgents, Maples said. "We're talking chemical agents here that could be packaged in a different format and have a great effect," he said, referencing the sarin-gas attack on a Japanese subway in the mid-1990s.

This is true even considering any degradation of the chemical agents that may have occurred, Chu said. It's not known exactly how sarin breaks down, but no matter how degraded the agent is, it's still toxic.

"Regardless of (how much material in the weapon is actually chemical agent), any remaining agent is toxic," he said. "Anything above zero (percent agent) would prove to be toxic, and if you were exposed to it long enough, lethal."

Though about 500 chemical weapons - the exact number has not been released publicly - have been found, Maples said he doesn't believe Iraq is a "WMD-free zone."

"I do believe the former regime did a very poor job of accountability of munitions, and certainly did not document the destruction of munitions," he said. "The recovery program goes on, and I do not believe we have found all the weapons."

The Defense Intelligence Agency director said locating and disposing of chemical weapons in Iraq is one of the most important tasks servicemembers in the country perform.

Maples added searches are ongoing for chemical weapons beyond those being conducted solely for force protection.

There has been a call for a complete declassification of the National Ground Intelligence Center's report on WMD in Iraq. Maples said he believes the director of national intelligence is still considering this option, and has asked Maples to look into producing an unclassified paper addressing the subject matter in the center's report.

Much of the classified matter was slated for discussion in a closed forum after the open hearings this morning.

[MustangSally]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War



[Image: http://bluegrassrivals.com/forum/picture...tureid=405]

People die in war yes it horrible but it happens. How many of those casualties were caused by IEDs or other attacks by Al qaeda or other extremist groups against the civilians? There was multiple attacks on Mosques and other civilian targets

[MustangSally]

Are you privy to info that the rest of us aren't?

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/iraq/cw/program.htm
Although the Iraqis initially used chemical weapons to prevent defeat and to reduce battlefield losses, they later integrated CW attacks into combined-armed operations designed to regain lost territory and to gain the offensive. Iraq's use of CW in the war with Iran can be divided into three distinct phases:
1983 to 1986--used in a defensive role; typically to deflect Iranian human-wave assaults. In 1984 Iraq became the first nation to use a nerve agent on the battlefield when it deployed Tabun-filled aerial bombs during the Iran-Iraq war. Some 5,500 Iranians were killed by the nerve agent between March 1984 and March 1985. Tabun kills within minutes. Some 16,000 Iranians were reported killed by the toxic blister agent mustard gas between August 1983 and February 1986.
1986 to early 1988--iraq adapts use against Iran to disrupt Iranian offensive preparations.
early 1988 to conclusion of the war-- Iraq integrated large nerve agent strikes into its overall offensive during the spring and summer of 1988 leading to the ceasefire.
Iran used chemical weapons late in the war, but never as extensively or successfully as Iraq. The success of Iraqi offensive operations in the southern sector in mid-1988 ultimately caused the Iranians to cease hostilities. The use of chemical weapons contributed to the success of these operations.

The first chemical attacks by Saddam Hussein against civilian populations included attacks launched by Iraqi aircraft against 20 small villages in 1987.


Saddam Hussein's forces reportedly killed hundreds of Iraqi Kurds with chemical agents in the Kurdish town of Halabja in March 1988. The poison gas attack on Halabja was the largest-scale chemical weapons (CW) attack against a civilian population in modern times. Halabja had a population of about 80,000 people who was predominantly Kurdish and had sympathised with Iran during the Iran-Iraq war in the 1980s. Troops from the Kurdish Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK) entered Halabja on 15th March 1988, accompanied by Iranian revolutionary guards. The Iraqi CW attack began early in the evening of March 16th, when a group of eight aircraft began dropping chemical bombs; the chemical bombardment continued all night. The Halabja attack involved multiple chemical agents -- including mustard gas, and the nerve agents SARIN, TABUN and VX. Some sources report that cyanide was also used.

[MustangSally]

VX Nerve Agent
Iraq also had a research and development programme for the production of a further nerve agent, VX. According to Iraq's 1995 account, VX was the focus of its research efforts in the period after September 1987. Iraq has stated that between late 1987 and early 1988, a total of 250 tons of phosphorous pentasulphide and 200 tons of di-isopropylamine were imported, these being two key precursors required for the production of VX. For the other precursors required, Iraq claims to have used only approximately 1 ton of methyl phosphonyl chloride (MPC) from a total of 660 tons produced indigenously. The remaining MPC is claimed to have been used to produce DF, then used in GB/GF production. The fourth precursor required for VX, ethylene oxide, was generally available, being a multi- purpose chemical.

Iraq stated in 1995 that it produced a total of only 10 tons of choline from the di-isopropylamine and ethylene oxide and approximately 3 tons of methyl thiophosphonyl dichloride from the phosphorous pentasulphide and methyl phosphonyl chloride. From this, Iraq states that it produced experimental quantities of VX (recently increased to 260 kg from 160 kg). Iraq has recently admitted that three 250-gauge aerial bombs had been filled with VX for experimental purposes.

Iraq claimed that further attempts to produce VX were unsuccessful and the programme was finally abandoned in September 1988. According to Iraq's account, the remaining choline from the 10 tons was burned in early 1988 and the remaining 247 tons of phosphorous pentasulphide was discarded in 1991 by scattering it over an area of land and putting it in pits. Iraq also claimed that 213 tons of di-isopropylamine was destroyed by bombing during the Gulf war. However, while the Commission has found traces of these chemicals at the sites at which Iraq states their destruction occurred, it has not been able to verify the quantities destroyed. Thus, precursors for the production of at least 200 to 250 tons of VX could not be definitively accounted for.

The Commission has supervised the destruction, or verified Iraq's unilateral destruction, of 125 250-gauge bombs and several thousands 120mm mortar shells. In its new declaration, Iraq declared an additional 350 500-gauge and 100 250-gauge aerial bombs filled with CS in 1987.

[TheRealThing]

Are you privy to info that the rest of us aren't?

Yeah, I was at a white house briefing and they said Saddam had dropped gas and bioloical bombs on 27,000 Kurds. Didn't I mention that?

[TheRealVille]

:poker face:

The difference between Chazz putting me in my place and the real villa putting you thing and hoot in your place is me and him still chat and carry on.

Actually Bob is one that I chat with, behind the scenes, from time to time, and consider an internet friend.