[Old School]

First off working in the mines makes you no more informed than john who works at food city. In this day and age, all the info we need is availble for everyone to see.

You say I have no ties, which I do, I have numerous family members who work in the mines, and dozens of freinds, I actually have two mine inspectors that I talk to on a regular basis. The only thing that your 27 years experience does it prove that your just as bais as me. I wont mining to stop, you want it to continue.

Ok there sallie, hold up. I asked about mining, and you avoid the question. Yes it's wrong to dump raw sewage into a creek, but there already polluted from mining run-off so both would have to be stopped to make a difference. The raw sewage running into creeks is not as bad as it used to be, laws have prevented that from happening.
We do protest logging operations, they do just as much harm as MTR, but during logging operations, trees can be re-grown rather quickly. Logging does not fill in streams, logging does not flattten thousands of acres of forrest, which changes the run off of water from a mountain and causes flooding. Controlled logging, not Clear cutting, could be a permanent income for this area.

Ok you mention cutting roads, and are comparing that to flattening thousands of acres of land, that just doesn't make sense. Your talking to me like I dont know what eastern ky looks like, I live here, I know about logging, raw sewage and highways, but that wasnt my question to you.
You cant compare oil spills on parking lots to the damage done by mining, come on. Have you ever looked in a creek in this area, look at the orange and black gunk on the bottom, thats magnesium, coal sludge, zinc and other metals from mining. why arent mining companies testing creek waters and doing something to prevent the run off from underground and surface mines. Thats what poising our waters and killing aquatic life, not billy bob changing oil at wal-mart. Research the slurry break in Inez, it was 20 times the size of the exxon oil spill in Buffalo, 300 million gallons of coal sludge dumped into the Big sandy, but no one heard about it. why? Becuase the mining companies kept it as quiet as possible by greatly misinforming people on the damage done. Just think about all the other suldge impound mounts in this area. There just not built to last. Research the Marsh FOrk Elementary school to see just how much coal companies care about the youth and the community.
You never answered my question about mining and the envioronment, quit throwing blame onto other issues, and answer my question straight up. Major Highways, logging, and construction do cause harm, but that wasnt my question.

First off I completely disagree with you on this, a person that works in the mines is better informed about the daily operations and the environmental issues surrounding mining than someone who is not familiar with mining. How can you be informed about the mining process when you know absolutely nothing about mining? You can learn only so much from books and articles from the web, but there's no substitute for experience.

About your ties to mining, just because you have family working in mining does not make you a expert in mining, I have family members that are lawyers, but that doesn't make me a lawyer NO!

You keep saying that I'm bias toward the coal industry. How many times during this thread have I said "I for alternate energy and I have no problem with wind power" but for some reason you choose to ignore those comments.

You said you want mining to stop and I want it to continue, yes I do want it to continue atleast until we have something to replace it with, I know you keep saying we have alternate energy to replace coal, and you suggested wind power, but you even said that it will take at least 10 years with the assistance of underground mining to reach 13% of our energy needs. What happens to the other 37% of our energy needs, do you think this Nation can reduce it energy needs by 37% in the next 10 years. Our demand for energy is rising every year. Common sense tell me we need to find a replacement for coal, whatever it shall be before we outlaw the use of coal alltogether.

You ask why Mining companies don't test the creek water.
This is why I say a person with mining experience is better informed about the mining operations and environmental issues, We do test the creek waters, before a permit can be submitted to the state you have to have 2 samples per month for 6 months, upstream and down stream of the area to be permitted this is continued during the permitting process and also during the mining process as well.

You mentioned the Martin County spill and I agree that was a disaster, that shouldn't have ever happend, but the coal industry isn't the only industry that has had disasters what about Nuclar disaster at Three Mile Island or the Chemical leak at Bhophal India, what about the distillary in Kentucky that spilled 500,000 gallons of Wild Turkey into the Kentucky River or countless other disasters. It's unfortunate that disaster happen but hopefully we can learn from our mistakes and not let them happen again. I'm not sure where you were for the 2 months after the spill in Martin County, heck I was in Florida the day of the spill and I heard about it on the news.

When you say sludge impound mount are you referring to a Slurry Impoundment?
The Starter Phase (the first step of the Impoundment)of the slurry impoundment is built out of dirt and rock after the starter phase is completed Phase 1 starts and course refuse is added in 1 foot lifts and is compacted to the designed rate approved in the permit. Compaction can be obtained several different ways such as trucks driving back and forth across the area, loaders can be used or rollers like you see on road construction jobs are sometimes used. We had a independent Engineering company come out every other day and check to make sure we reached our compaction rate. The slurry (which is coal fines and water) are pumped into the Impoundment with the fines settleing near the embankment and the water working it's way to the back of the impundment where it becomes clear and is pumped back to the plant. As the Impoundment is nearing compleation (coal fines reaching their max. designed level) the excess water is pumped out and the remainder of the impoundment is graded so that no water can stand behind the embankment, after the impoundment is closed out it will be just a big hollow fill.

Talking about Marsh Fork Ele. I read the other day that Environmentalist were pushing the state for a new school but the majority of the teachers and parents did not want one, maybe there not as upset as you think.

By using the environmentalist diffinition of a stream 95% of their "streams" that are coverd with dirt and rock are actually intermitent or ephemeral "streams" those that flow only during a rain or snow event, personally I would say that these are dry branches or gullies. Since the environmentlist are able to call these "streams" before mining starts then one would have to consider all of the diversion ditches built during and after mining should also be called "streams" this would almost triple the length of steams prior to mining so if they say mining has destroyed 700 miles of streams, mining should be able to claim at least 1,500 miles of new stream chanels. What about the many acres of wetlands created during reclamation on our jobs alone we have appox. 50 acres of wetlands that are used by Ducks, Geese, Turkey and other fowl Deer, Bears, Foxes, Coyotes, Bobcats and other animals use these waters. With all of the laws, rules and guideline's that mining has to follow today I have to say that mining helps the environment, but that is my opinion and I know that you will disagree with me but what's new.