[Coach_Owens87]

First off I completely disagree with you on this, a person that works in the mines is better informed about the daily operations and the environmental issues surrounding mining than someone who is not familiar with mining. How can you be informed about the mining process when you know absolutely nothing about mining? You can learn only so much from books and articles from the web, but there's no substitute for experience.

About your ties to mining, just because you have family working in mining does not make you a expert in mining, I have family members that are lawyers, but that doesn't make me a lawyer NO!

You keep saying that I'm bias toward the coal industry. How many times during this thread have I said "I for alternate energy and I have no problem with wind power" but for some reason you choose to ignore those comments.

You said you want mining to stop and I want it to continue, yes I do want it to continue atleast until we have something to replace it with, I know you keep saying we have alternate energy to replace coal, and you suggested wind power, but you even said that it will take at least 10 years with the assistance of underground mining to reach 13% of our energy needs. What happens to the other 37% of our energy needs, do you think this Nation can reduce it energy needs by 37% in the next 10 years. Our demand for energy is rising every year. Common sense tell me we need to find a replacement for coal, whatever it shall be before we outlaw the use of coal alltogether.

You ask why Mining companies don't test the creek water.
This is why I say a person with mining experience is better informed about the mining operations and environmental issues, We do test the creek waters, before a permit can be submitted to the state you have to have 2 samples per month for 6 months, upstream and down stream of the area to be permitted this is continued during the permitting process and also during the mining process as well.

You mentioned the Martin County spill and I agree that was a disaster, that shouldn't have ever happend, but the coal industry isn't the only industry that has had disasters what about Nuclar disaster at Three Mile Island or the Chemical leak at Bhophal India, what about the distillary in Kentucky that spilled 500,000 gallons of Wild Turkey into the Kentucky River or countless other disasters. It's unfortunate that disaster happen but hopefully we can learn from our mistakes and not let them happen again. I'm not sure where you were for the 2 months after the spill in Martin County, heck I was in Florida the day of the spill and I heard about it on the news.

When you say sludge impound mount are you referring to a Slurry Impoundment?
The Starter Phase (the first step of the Impoundment)of the slurry impoundment is built out of dirt and rock after the starter phase is completed Phase 1 starts and course refuse is added in 1 foot lifts and is compacted to the designed rate approved in the permit. Compaction can be obtained several different ways such as trucks driving back and forth across the area, loaders can be used or rollers like you see on road construction jobs are sometimes used. We had a independent Engineering company come out every other day and check to make sure we reached our compaction rate. The slurry (which is coal fines and water) are pumped into the Impoundment with the fines settleing near the embankment and the water working it's way to the back of the impundment where it becomes clear and is pumped back to the plant. As the Impoundment is nearing compleation (coal fines reaching their max. designed level) the excess water is pumped out and the remainder of the impoundment is graded so that no water can stand behind the embankment, after the impoundment is closed out it will be just a big hollow fill.

Talking about Marsh Fork Ele. I read the other day that Environmentalist were pushing the state for a new school but the majority of the teachers and parents did not want one, maybe there not as upset as you think.

By using the environmentalist diffinition of a stream 95% of their "streams" that are coverd with dirt and rock are actually intermitent or ephemeral "streams" those that flow only during a rain or snow event, personally I would say that these are dry branches or gullies. Since the environmentlist are able to call these "streams" before mining starts then one would have to consider all of the diversion ditches built during and after mining should also be called "streams" this would almost triple the length of steams prior to mining so if they say mining has destroyed 700 miles of streams, mining should be able to claim at least 1,500 miles of new stream chanels. What about the many acres of wetlands created during reclamation on our jobs alone we have appox. 50 acres of wetlands that are used by Ducks, Geese, Turkey and other fowl Deer, Bears, Foxes, Coyotes, Bobcats and other animals use these waters. With all of the laws, rules and guideline's that mining has to follow today I have to say that mining helps the environment, but that is my opinion and I know that you will disagree with me but what's new.

Intermittent or not, it's still a stream by definition. Nature put those gullies and streams there for a reason, and when a company goes in, blast away all the top soil, mines 200-300 feet off the top of the mountain and then pushes the dirt into nearby valleys serious problems are bound to occur. Some mining companies are better than other at reclamation, but the majority do a poor job. The reason a ditch is not called a stream is because it's man made, streams have to occur naturally.

The problem with the Marsh Fork elementary school is that they are blasting near the sludge impoundment that has violated state regulations, it's currently leaking. They have made no attempts to fix the slurry impoundment. Im sure that environmentalist are making this a bigger issue than what it is, but the health of those kids is very important. What will the coal companies say if this impoundment breaks and kills those children.

To say the Mining helps the enviornment is crazy. It took nature millions of years to create those streams, valleys, and forest, but you think that man can come in blow all that away and things will be better? come on.

Im sure you are a great person, but I don't think we can debate this issue anymore, we have both given all the facts we have and our now just going on opinion. I just hope that mining can at least be controlled better untill we find a suitable energy replacement.