[Truth]

Whoa.........after reading your posts Truth, I am beginning to think you are a defense lawyer.

I learned long ago that everyone is entitled to a competent defense. Most of you posters are basing your conclusions on raw emotion. I am suggesting that you wait for the facts to surface. Grand jury transcripts, as I stated before, are not necessarily the facts and, at best, only present one side of the story- the accusations. We all have a constitutional right to confront our accusers. Let's try following our law before jump out on emotion.

Some are saying Paterno's recent statements are an admission of guilt. That is ridiculous. He is making statements that anyone would make in such a situation. Of course, he wishes, in hindsight, he had done more. In hindsight, I wish I hadnt been speeding on I-77 so I could have avoided a ticket. And, of course, he is saying to pray for the alleged victims. What else would he say? That is no admission of any guilt.

It is obviously a waste of time to suggest that you people should wait on the facts. You have judged the matter.

[Truth]

I cant believe what i just read...

He did nothing wrong??... I want to get this straight your telling me that if you knew little kids were being molested you would do nothing about it and keep having relations with the ppl that were doing it??

If thats the case your a sick individual

No need for anyone to suggest that you wait on all the facts. You have made your ruling. Justice would suggest that you be judged in the same manner. And, since you can reach "valid" conclusions without bothering to get all the facts, can you tell me if Kentucky will beat Vanderbilt on Saturday so I can place a bet?

If I am "sick" for supporting a complete airing of the facts before judging, so be it. It is preferable to obvious ignorance.

[Dr. B]

No need for anyone to suggest that you wait on all the facts. You have made your ruling. Justice would suggest that you be judged in the same manner. And, since you can reach "valid" conclusions without bothering to get all the facts, can you tell me if Kentucky will beat Vanderbilt on Saturday so I can place a bet?

If I am "sick" for supporting a complete airing of the facts before judging, so be it. It is preferable to obvious ignorance.

you are the one with obvious ignorance... did i accuse anyone of anything in my last post?? that would be a big no!!... however, do i think he was in the wrong and handled the situation wrong yes i do!!!... do i think he deserved what he got yes i do!!..

You can keep answering everyones post like your sandusky lawyer all you want but for one time i wish you would answer the question at hand and not go on some bullshit rant

all i said was...
He did nothing wrong??... I want to get this straight your telling me that if you knew little kids were being molested you would do nothing about it and keep having relations with the ppl that were doing it??

but obviously your too ignorant to answer anyones questions

[judgementday]

First, what was presented to the Grand Jury is NOT one side of the story. They are presented (as I spent a year on a grand jury, 1-2 days a week) with all the evidence in the case whether it supports guilt and/or innocense. They have the option to interview witnesses, request more evidence, etc... after that they hand down their indictment. They base this indictment on FACTS.

Speaking of facts........Paterno himself said "I SHOULD HAVE DONE MORE"...it is a FACT that he just admitted to negligence.

There are no more FACTS that we are waiting on to be released...they are all in the news. Anyone's judgement is based on what is being reported which is so far, THE FACTS.....

Get it straight, get off your irrelevant high horse, put yourself in the situation...Would you have just let a known child rapist hang around your facility? If so, then you must not have any sons...

[TheRealVille]

I learned long ago that everyone is entitled to a competent defense. Most of you posters are basing your conclusions on raw emotion. I am suggesting that you wait for the facts to surface. Grand jury transcripts, as I stated before, are not necessarily the facts and, at best, only present one side of the story- the accusations. We all have a constitutional right to confront our accusers. Let's try following our law before jump out on emotion.

Some are saying Paterno's recent statements are an admission of guilt. That is ridiculous. He is making statements that anyone would make in such a situation. Of course, he wishes, in hindsight, he had done more. In hindsight, I wish I hadnt been speeding on I-77 so I could have avoided a ticket. And, of course, he is saying to pray for the alleged victims. What else would he say? That is no admission of any guilt.

It is obviously a waste of time to suggest that you people should wait on the facts. You have judged the matter.

We can only hope that you are never in a position to watch out for the welfare of kids. While you are waiting on the "facts" of an alleged rape of a child by one of you staff members, it would be no telling how many kids get raped before you get enough facts to suit you and do something to help them.

[Truth]

First, what was presented to the Grand Jury is NOT one side of the story. They are presented (as I spent a year on a grand jury, 1-2 days a week) with all the evidence in the case whether it supports guilt and/or innocense. They have the option to interview witnesses, request more evidence, etc... after that they hand down their indictment. They base this indictment on FACTS.

Speaking of facts........Paterno himself said "I SHOULD HAVE DONE MORE"...it is a FACT that he just admitted to negligence.

There are no more FACTS that we are waiting on to be released...they are all in the news. Anyone's judgement is based on what is being reported which is so far, THE FACTS.....

Get it straight, get off your irrelevant high horse, put yourself in the situation...Would you have just let a known child rapist hang around your facility? If so, then you must not have any sons...

First of all, you are wrong in regard to the grand jury in this matter. Second, you really should learn how to spell "judgment".

[Truth]

We can only hope that you are never in a position to watch out for the welfare of kids. While you are waiting on the "facts" of an alleged rape of a child by one of you staff members, it would be no telling how many kids get raped before you get enough facts to suit you and do something to help them.

I deal in facts. You deal in emotion. On th eother hand, I am a strict constructionist constitutionally and favor swift justice. I suspect you are a bit liberal since you reach your conclusions too much on raw emotion . You are a reactionary.

[TheRealVille]

I deal in facts. You deal in emotion. On th eother hand, I am a strict constructionist constitutionally and favor swift justice. I suspect you are a bit liberal since you reach your conclusions too much on raw emotion . You are a reactionary.

Yea, defense attorneys deal with so much fact. LOL. Truth, if he heard about a rape, he should have done something about it, and fixed the situation to where it could never happen again under his watch. That's facts. He was told(fact) that it happened, by his assistant, and he should have never kept this guy on his staff to where it could happen again. I wasn't going to bring this up, but since you did bring politics into it......Are you protecting Joe because he is a hardcore conservative and a close personal friend of GWB?

[TheRealVille]

First of all, you are wrong in regard to the grand jury in this matter. Second, you really should learn how to spell "judgment".

Fact. You are wrong in this matter, it can be spelled both ways. With or without the "e" is accepted.

[vundy33]

I'm not sure whether I am more amused or disgusted by all the holier than thou posts each extending his/her own moral compass to this matter.

First and foremost, none of you know any of the actual facts. Neither do I. Your "righteous indignation"" is based solely upon what is being reported in the media. That is not fact. But, of course, that is how the "lynch mob mentality" normally exhibits itself. Let's not wait on the facts. Let's make our judgment, act like we are horrified, do our best to destroy a superior individual, and have it all done long before we know any facts. As usual, raw emotion rules the day.

Even the authorities admit that Paterno did nothing wrong from a legal sense. His transgressions, so they and most of you say, were in the moral realm. I don't need to rehash what Paterno did when informed of whatever he was actually informed of since legally he did the right thing in informing his superior. We can argue "moral" all we want but, unfortunately in this country and this world, "moral" seems to be in the eyes of the beholder.

I don't find fault with the board of trustees. Their duty is to minimize the damage to Penn State University and to sacrifice whomever needs to be sacrificed in order to do so. That's what was done.

However, under the circumstances, I seriously doubt that any of you indignant moral judges would have handled the situation any different than did Paterno. All this "he should have done this ..." and "I would have done that ..." is nothing more than bloviating. Given the same history, circumstances, relationships with others, reputation, status, legal contracts, and so forth, the truth is that few, if any, of you would have done anything any different than did Paterno. To ride your high horse of moral purity and indignation now is disingenuous at best and laughable at worst.

He knew the damn truth. He was told of the details, whether he admits it or not. Quite a few have said that already. Moral compass? That has no bearing on this. It's obvious this was wrong, they did nothing, the kids came forward and weren't believed!

Here you go: http://www.freep.com/assets/freep/pdf/C4181508116.PDF

I love JoePa and think he should've been able to retire, but I understand the decision. He, and alot of other people, were wrong.

[toussaints]

Wow this thread got out of control. It went from a great discussion to people calling those that defend Joe Paterno just alittle bit being called child molesters. I think we all need to calm down alittle. Both sides are correct, you can not let someone get away with something so disgusting after being caught, but we do not have all the facts for something we've been following for a week. What if someone told police then and it was swept under the rug? That's happened before.

Did Joe deserve to get fired? Yes, but before people tie up Paterno to tree and burn him, let's hear his side of the story

[judgementday]

First of all, you are wrong in regard to the grand jury in this matter. Second, you really should learn how to spell "judgment".

It is a forum, who really cares how things are spelled....but if you must know, judge is part of my name so that is how i spell it. are you going to point out now that i do not capitalize my sentences?

Wow, you stand up against my grammer but wouldn't stand up against a child molester?

Legality and Morality do not mix, in this case that is for sure. As stated a ton of times already, Legally he did what he needed to do, morally he didn't. He admitted to that, the police commissioner told him that, and he allowed an accussed child rapist to still come on campus, it is because of this he was fired...

[judgementday]

Wow this thread got out of control. It went from a great discussion to people calling those that defend Joe Paterno just alittle bit being called child molesters. I think we all need to calm down alittle. Both sides are correct, you can not let someone get away with something so disgusting after being caught, but we do not have all the facts for something we've been following for a week. What if someone told police then and it was swept under the rug? That's happened before.

So before people tie up Paterno to tree and burn him, let's hear his whole side of the story 1st

I agree...

However, I do not think anyone is trying to "burn" Paterno. It boiled down to the question as to whether he should be able to retire or be fired. With that being said, there is already a ton of facts out there and Paterno admitted to knowing what happened and "not doing enough about it"...

I also would like to say though, the AD is more to blame than Paterno, from what I have heard, he clearly just brushed it aside.

[Truth]

Fact. You are wrong in this matter, it can be spelled both ways. With or without the "e" is accepted.

What source are you using? There is only one proper way to spell "judgment".

[Ballers]

I really do feel sorry for Joe Pa.. He knows he should have done something more, the Administration is to blame I do believe. They let it go basically in my opinion.

Joe is what 85? He's brought many wins to this program.. I do think he should have resigned on his own terms, but I can't help but feel sorry for the old guy. You can bash him all you want, but he is still an old guy that made history. Let us all keep in mind that he didn't catch the guy in the act, it was someone else who told Joe about it. This isn't really his fault - the reason they are firing him IMO is to keep the school clean looking really so that way noone is protesting that he shouldn't be the coach anymore or calls him a baby raper or something stupid. This is really rediculous. I know that it isn't right what happened, but Joe Pa shouldn't be to blame for it.

Even if Joe Pa would have contacted authorities, would he still be left out to hang and dry because this guy was part of his crew? A good question to think about.

Another thing to think about is Joe Pa was still way past his prime when this happened, still a very old man.. If he would had let the cat out of the bag god only knows what could have happened to him. Maybe someone would had hired a hitman for going to the authorities. You people need to look at it from both sides of the mirror. I do understand that these kids will forever be scarred for life.. But so will Joe after this now, as his reputation is tainted forever.

[vundy33]

Truth, TheRealVille is correct. Turning this into a spelling bee is ridiculous.

[TheRealVille]

What source are you using? There is only one proper way to spell "judgment".

No, there is not, look it up. Are we going to talk about the topic or the correct spelling of judgment and politics?

[Truth]

you are the one with obvious ignorance... did i accuse anyone of anything in my last post?? that would be a big no!!... however, do i think he was in the wrong and handled the situation wrong yes i do!!!... do i think he deserved what he got yes i do!!..

You can keep answering everyones post like your sandusky lawyer all you want but for one time i wish you would answer the question at hand and not go on some bullshit rant

all i said was...
He did nothing wrong??... I want to get this straight your telling me that if you knew little kids were being molested you would do nothing about it and keep having relations with the ppl that were doing it??

but obviously your too ignorant to answer anyones questions

Though it will call for a lot of intelligence downsizing, I'll try to answer this so that even you can understand it.

The investigating officers and the grand jury concluded that Paterno did nothing unlawful. I am not aware of any credible evidence that proves that Paterno "knew little boys were being molested". He passed along whatever he was told by the assistant to his superior- the AD. When all you have is heresay, that is what you do. When you operate under a contract that whereby you to report information to your superior, that is what you do. That is what Paterno did.

People who react solely out of emotion are considered ignorant. They are ignorant of the full facts of the matter. If you operate in that manner, you are, indeed, ignorant.

By the way, I fully understand why the board of trustees terminated Paterno. They were trying to limit the damage to Penn State. That was their duty. It had nothing to do with any perceived "guilt" on the part of Paterno. Strictly damage control. If I had been on the board, i would have done the same thing. In fact, in several matters of lesser consequence, I have done exactly that.

[toussaints]

I agree...

However, I do not think anyone is trying to "burn" Paterno.

You get the point though

[Stardust]

LOL, it's as simple as the very words that came out of Joe Paterno's mouth himself

[vundy33]

I really do feel sorry for Joe Pa.. He knows he should have done something more, the Administration is to blame I do believe. They let it go basically in my opinion.

Joe is what 85? He's brought many wins to this program.. I do think he should have resigned on his own terms, but I can't help but feel sorry for the old guy. You can bash him all you want, but he is still an old guy that made history. Let us all keep in mind that he didn't catch the guy in the act, it was someone else who told Joe about it. This isn't really his fault - the reason they are firing him IMO is to keep the school clean looking really so that way noone is protesting that he shouldn't be the coach anymore or calls him a baby raper or something stupid. This is really rediculous. I know that it isn't right what happened, but Joe Pa shouldn't be to blame for it.

Even if Joe Pa would have contacted authorities, would he still be left out to hang and dry because this guy was part of his crew? A good question to think about.

Of course not. Joe Pa isn't getting the blame for it, he's getting criticized for not going above his superiors after nothing was done. But, to his credit, they told him "no foul play was found"...those jackasses. They're clearing out anyone who let this go on...

I mean hell, they all let it go on for more than 10 years. He was on the practice field with another kid just a week.

[judgementday]

LOL, it's as simple as the very words that came out of Joe Paterno's mouth himself

This.......it was hersay until Paterno himself acknowledged what was going on. He could have simply said, "I did what I knew to do"......"Instead he said, "I should have done more"...

Again, this has nothing to do with his LEGAL rights so there is no need to quote laws, etc...It has to do with is moral obligaton as a human being...this is what I feel we have been discussing...IMO

[Ballers]

I do agree that he should have done more, but you can't actually call this guy a child molester or a sexual deviant. That is the vibe I am getting from a lot of the posters on here.

Everyone hated on Micheal Jackson for the past 5-10 years, but then when he died "OH GOD I LOVE YOU MICHEAL" Buncha damn hipocracy going on in here in my opinion.

I understand where Truth is coming from - everyone wants Joe Pa's head on a plate but in all reality he did do the right thing. It's the Admin's fault for pushing it from there. A coach of his stature has a lot of things going on in his life. Let him go tell the cops that he reported it, it's still going to drag him into the mix just because the guy worked under him. If Coach Cal sees a roberry somewhere or he's going down the street in a limo I wonder if he would call authorities to report the robbery? Think outside of the box people. And before I get pinned with "Oh you must be taking the child molestor's side" He should be hung up to dry and spend the rest of his life in the worst state pin in the USA. I also have 2 beautiful sons and I hate this for their families and the kids but what in the hell and why in the hell where they with the guy in the first place? Sounds like to me people aren't keeping up with their kids enough now days.

[vundy33]

Also, forgot to mention...hindsight is 20/20..just a bad situation all around.

[toussaints]

If Coach Cal sees a roberry somewhere or he's going down the street in a limo I wonder if he would call authorities to report the robbery?

Depends, is the robber 6'8, 200 lbs with a pretty good jumpshot?

[Stardust]

Depends, is the robber 6'8, 200 lbs with a pretty good jumpshot?

If he knew of a 10 year-old boy being raped, I would hope he would say something!

[Ballers]

Depends, is the robber 6'8, 200 lbs with a pretty good jumpshot?

Haha. Touche :Thumbs:

[Stardust]

I do agree that he should have done more, but you can't actually call this guy a child molester or a sexual deviant. That is the vibe I am getting from a lot of the posters on here.

Everyone hated on Micheal Jackson for the past 5-10 years, but then when he died "OH GOD I LOVE YOU MICHEAL" Buncha damn hipocracy going on in here in my opinion.

I understand where Truth is coming from - everyone wants Joe Pa's head on a plate but in all reality he did do the right thing. It's the Admin's fault for pushing it from there. A coach of his stature has a lot of things going on in his life. Let him go tell the cops that he reported it, it's still going to drag him into the mix just because the guy worked under him. If Coach Cal sees a roberry somewhere or he's going down the street in a limo I wonder if he would call authorities to report the robbery? Think outside of the box people. And before I get pinned with "Oh you must be taking the child molestor's side" He should be hung up to dry and spend the rest of his life in the worst state pin in the USA. I also have 2 beautiful sons and I hate this for their families and the kids but what in the hell and why in the hell where they with the guy in the first place? Sounds like to me people aren't keeping up with their kids enough now days.

You obviously have not educated yourself on who these kids were? This SOB created an organization for socially challenged kids, kids who HAVE no one! So this guy used what was a good cause for his own purposes of deception and did it right under the noses of his friends and partners, those who appear to have been willing to help cover it up, because there sure as hell was enough incidents that happened and inquiries that went on internally that this guys should have never even been around the facility. Joe Paterno is bigger than the school itself! Thus, Joe would have known of the rumors and would have done more!

[Ballers]

You obviously have not educated yourself on who these kids were? This SOB created an organization for socially challenged kids, kids who HAVE no one! So this guy used what was a good cause for his own purposes of deception and did it right under the noses of his friends and partners, those who appear to have been willing to help cover it up, because there sure as hell was enough incidents that happened and inquiries that went on internally that this guys should have never even been around the facility. Joe Paterno is bigger than the school itself! Thus, Joe would have known of the rumors and would have done more!

That is pretty sick, but this isn't Joe's fault.

[Belfry0304]

Depends, is the robber 6'8, 200 lbs with a pretty good jumpshot?

After reading more into it, the facts are maybe Paterno did handle it wrong, but there are many more people at fault here besides him. Poorly handled situation all the way around.