[RammsteinFan92]

:confused: why can't we have UHC (universal health care) here in the us it works in other countries such as Cuba,France,Great Britan,....so why wouldn't it work here[YOUTUBE="UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE"]KGpY2hw7ao8[/YOUTUBE]

for all that it's worth i change my view on this topic....so MODs go ahead and close this

[RammsteinFan92]

I have a friend who has worked as a cook at Applebees for several years. On occasion, he relocates. Each time he does, and starts at the Applebees in that town, they treat him like a new employee... waiting period for insurance to kick in. I use this as an example to suggest the system is rotted because silver and gold are counted more dear than flesh and blood... and, if and when America "goes down" those words will be on the tombstone. We trust the god of the dollar...

yea....we are a capitalist nation!

[vundy33]

Show me a country near as successful as ours that isn't a capitalist nation?

[phs1986]

for all that it's worth i change my view on this topic....so MODs go ahead and close this

It will be closed when others are finished discussing this topic. Thank you for your input though...

[thecavemaster]

Show me a country near as successful as ours that isn't a capitalist nation?

Define success... "The number of goods that I can buy in the mall means that we are the bestest nation on earth." ? I didn't know it was a contest anyway.

[Sportsfan54]

I can get health care if I need it.

Personally, I don't want to be paying for someone else's healthcare. I pay enough taxes as it is.

This crosses the line with welfare and all that crap. Welfare in E. KY isn't a support program for a lot of people, it's their profession. Professionally on welfare and disability.

If I'm already paying for people to be lazy, I don't want to pay anymore for people who don't get their own health care. And, IMO it's not that a lot of people can't get health care, it's that they don't want to pay for it.

I would really like to know how many of these people that cannot afford health care can somehow afford a DVD player, and afford a car, and can afford that new flat screen TV?

But don't those you speak of already have health care provided by the taxes you already pay? In fact they have the best health care money can buy.(your money that is). Welfare receipients don't have to wait in line. They know when they go to the doctor they won't have a bill to pay. Now don't get me wrong this is a great program for those who need it. Nothing I would rather see that those who need help receive it. I would like to see a universal Health Care Plan, But one that works! Lets not give up the fight just because others haven't perfected their plans yet. Let's have a plan but a better plan!

[thecavemaster]

The current health care system in America works very well for the people deemed to matter. Health care is effectively rationed by wealth, and enormous profits flow to private power thanks to management practices geared to profit, not health care. The underlying population (i.e. lower middle class people, part-time workers, the working poor) gets treated to lectures on self-reliance and responsibility.

[BasketBallonlyfan]

One thing about the health care system in this country is that it does work. If there is something medically wrong with you, you go to a hospital for it, that hospital is under a legal obligation to fix you to where you wont die. If someone went into Pikeville or P-burgs hospital and said they didnt have a dime to give them, they still get the health care they need to live. If not, the hospital is liable for the person if they pass away. Granted, they wont get the private room with a full time nurse in their room, but they will get the same care that is needed for them to make a recovery. If surgery is required, they will get the same surgeons that even the richest person in the hospital would get as the surgeons are hired by the hospital. If Bill Gates was flying across Eastern Kentucky and had a gal bladder attack or something like that, he would be operated on by the same surgeons that would operate on someone with a medical card. He would not be allowed to fly in his own surgeon to do the procedure.

The cost of medicine in this country is very high. But that is where the drugs of tomorrow come from. The same thing as the medicine of today came from the money made from drugs 20 years ago. Companies cant spend millions of dollars in research and development to come up with the new equipment and drugs to just give them away. Most drug companies offer assistance to get their services and medication if they just apply for a card threw that company.

If our health care system needed fixed more than the countries with the universal health care, why do citizens from so many other countries come here for health care? Why would Canadians and Brits come here and have to pay for the services that they could get in their countries for free? IMO, something must be right with it for others to want to use it even at their own personal expense.

[Chuck Taylor]

I think we should be talking about universal health insurance (i.e health insurance for everyone). Everyone should have to pay some sort of copay or what they can afford. But the rising costs of health insurance need to be curtailed.

[More Cowbell]

One thing about the health care system in this country is that it does work. If there is something medically wrong with you, you go to a hospital for it, that hospital is under a legal obligation to fix you to where you wont die. If someone went into Pikeville or P-burgs hospital and said they didnt have a dime to give them, they still get the health care they need to live. If not, the hospital is liable for the person if they pass away. Granted, they wont get the private room with a full time nurse in their room, but they will get the same care that is needed for them to make a recovery. If surgery is required, they will get the same surgeons that even the richest person in the hospital would get as the surgeons are hired by the hospital. If Bill Gates was flying across Eastern Kentucky and had a gal bladder attack or something like that, he would be operated on by the same surgeons that would operate on someone with a medical card. He would not be allowed to fly in his own surgeon to do the procedure.

The cost of medicine in this country is very high. But that is where the drugs of tomorrow come from. The same thing as the medicine of today came from the money made from drugs 20 years ago. Companies cant spend millions of dollars in research and development to come up with the new equipment and drugs to just give them away. Most drug companies offer assistance to get their services and medication if they just apply for a card threw that company.

If our health care system needed fixed more than the countries with the universal health care, why do citizens from so many other countries come here for health care? Why would Canadians and Brits come here and have to pay for the services that they could get in their countries for free? IMO, something must be right with it for others to want to use it even at their own personal expense.

Great post, BBOF. :Clap:

I couldn't have said it much better myself.

[thecavemaster]

The potentialities of medicine in the US are not at issue: smart doctors, big time hospitals, big time R & D. But, if the suggestion is that quality of care is the same for all people, try going to an inner city emergency room and sitting and watching. The above post by BBOF is misleading in some aspects, while accurate in others. The working poor face obstacles in the US healthcare system foreign to Canadians and Brits. Check the infant mortality rates in the US against other industrialized countries.

[BasketBallonlyfan]

The potentialities of medicine in the US are not at issue: smart doctors, big time hospitals, big time R & D. But, if the suggestion is that quality of care is the same for all people, try going to an inner city emergency room and sitting and watching. The above post by BBOF is misleading in some aspects, while accurate in others. The working poor face obstacles in the US healthcare system foreign to Canadians and Brits. Check the infant mortality rates in the US against other industrialized countries.

Are you saying the infant mortality rates are higher here than in other industrialized countries? As far as the inner city emergency room visits, yes, I bet they do take longer. Just the same as I bet it would take longer to drive your car 20 miles in one direction as it does here too. More people living in a congested area means more wait time for basic services.

[EKY Sportster]

I'm am just absolutely convinced, the only reason that anyone would ever vote for a democrat for president (especially this group of them)..... is only doing so, because they want the government to provide for them what they should already be providing themselves.

Here's a quote.. take it to heart.

You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.
You cannot help small men by tearing down big men.
You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
You cannot lift the wage-earner by pulling down the wage-payer.
You cannot help the poor man by destroying the rich.
You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than your income.
You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred.
You cannot establish security on borrowed money.
You cannot build character and courage by taking away men's initiative
and independence.
You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could
and should do for themselves."

:Thumbs: Couldn't agree more!!

[thecavemaster]

Of course, every single justice movement in the entire history of the world suggests that, at some point, the weak and oppressed, having gained enough voice, enough mass, to move the powers that be, hinting that governments have the power to oppress but also the ability to liberate, to remedy injustice, to engage corporate corruption with regulative action.

[EKY Sportster]

The solution to any problem is not something "free", but the solution to all problems that can be solved is "work". I do think that there should be assistance to the genuine needy and I think that all people should have healthcare. But it shouldn't be "free" or without strings. In saying these things, I do know that our current systems are certainly not perfect and that could use some "work" as well.

[thecavemaster]

In certain industrailized, developed nations, healthcare is not viewed as a provided service requiring a fee. It is viewed as a right, a provision a decent country makes for its citizenry. In the Old Testament days, large land owners were expected to not harvest the edges, leaving the "gleanings" for the poor to harvest. Now, true enough, the poor had to actually harvest the crop, which is, technically, the WPA of the 1930's (workfare); however, the whole argument about "free" as to healthcare does not wash with me.

[lawrencefan]

Are you suggesting that the 48 million people without healthcare are ALL or even in majority driving Cadillacs, watching flat screens, while eating Filet Mignon? Is that your position? "Poor people are low down, no good, good for nothings" ? What about the working poor? What about those destroyed by medical bills after catastophic illness? Should they go and listen to Hank Williams Jr. sing "Country Boy Can Survive"? I'm not sure catching catfish from dusk 'til dawn is a cure for cancer...

I am. The vast majority are singles aged 18 to 30 who are healthy and don't want to waste their money on healthcare.

[phs1986]

Here ya go..... This is interesting.... It IS about healthcare in the U.S.

http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2003/10/30/64431/000

[vundy33]

Again I like the system how it is right now...I can't see how it can be improved in any way.

[Old School]

Here's a story about a woman from Canada who had to have emergency surgery while visiting Califorina on December 17th and as of January 2 she was unable to go home due the the lack of hospital beds in Canada.

http://www.news1130.com/news/local/artic...01452_5180

[thecavemaster]

Here's a story about a woman from Canada who had to have emergency surgery while visiting Califorina on December 17th and as of January 2 she was unable to go home due the the lack of hospital beds in Canada.

http://www.news1130.com/news/local/artic...01452_5180

Could we, then, not discuss the story of the elderly black woman, obviously dehydrated and suffering from hallucinations, being taken from an ambulance and placed back on the street? Is this issue really to be settled by isolated stories, read and rendered to support preconceived notions of who is and who is not worthy of care? Healthcare is a right granted, not a privilege earned. Period.

[Old School]

Could we, then, not discuss the story of the elderly black woman, obviously dehydrated and suffering from hallucinations, being taken from an ambulance and placed back on the street? Is this issue really to be settled by isolated stories, read and rendered to support preconceived notions of who is and who is not worthy of care? Healthcare is a right granted, not a privilege earned. Period.

As far as I know this is an open disussion and your more than welcome to discuss any story you want. Regardless of which health care program we have either if it's contolled by the goverment or private companies there will always be stories like the ones you and I mentioned. I just find it hard to believe that we would have a better health care system that is controlled by the government.

[thecavemaster]

Wasn't calling into question the openness of the forum...but disputing that solitary stories prove anything. If I look out the window and see a white horse, I cannot, therefore, conclude that all horses are white.