[Mr.Kimball]

Shame, really. I hope it makes uncommon sense, as "common" is so, well, tired and used up from all the failing.

Shame? lol. Your just like every member of the "Left Wing Fart Party". You just ain't lissstennnning CM.


Gee, and that's been used, when?

[thecavemaster]

Shame? lol. Your just like every member of the "Left Wing Fart Party". You just ain't lissstennnning CM.


Gee, and that's been used, when?

Kimball... (1) We have to cut spending, or at least freeze it. (2) I tend to think that the bank bailouts were a necessary evil, though I wonder if allowing "the biggies" to fail would have been like allowing an addict to hit the wall, but the concern that the economy would have completely depressed sways me. (3) I believe in progressive taxation, up to a certain income level, after which I think the level should cap, never above 27 to 30 percent. (4) I am not "sold" on Obama, though I think he took office in a very difficult time, was forced into "stop gap" measures that folks in both parties voted for, and that he is sincere in his belief that healthcare has to be reformed as part of an overall plan to revitalize the economy. (5) I don't think the United States can parade around the world saying, "We always know best. Get on board, or get a foot up your backside." I favor Obama's tonal shift in foreign policy. You're a businessman... you can tell a person the same thing in different tones and completely change the dynamics of the relationship each time.

[Hoot Gibson]

I would suggest that, as a result of the crippling sanctions placed upon Germany post WWI, the internal "mood" of the German people actually placed Hitler in a stronger position. To suggest that Israel is not a perfect playing partner in all matters is NOT to "blame Israel for all the problems in the Middle East." You say, "will cost American lives" and "position of weakness" and prove yourself just another in a long line of Impotent Guessers.

A carefully placed nuke on American soil could kill tens of thousands (if not more) American civilians and cripple our economy. Iran is more of a direct threat to our nation's security than Hitler was in 1940. Hitler never made any direct threats against the US before the war started. Ahmadinejad has made repeated threats against Israel and the US.

Hitler had purged Germany's universities of many of the leading theoretical physicists in his country because they were Jewish. Consequently, Germany was not even close to where Iran is today in terms of developing a nuclear threat. Hitler was not even convinced that a nuclear bomb was even possible but Ahmadinejad sees it as a more effective Holocaust device.

[thecavemaster]

A carefully placed nuke on American soil could kill tens of thousands (if not more) American civilians and cripple our economy. Iran is more of a direct threat to our nation's security than Hitler was in 1940. Hitler never made any direct threats against the US before the war started. Ahmadinejad has made repeated threats against Israel and the US.

Hitler had purged Germany's universities of many of the leading theoretical physicists in his country because they were Jewish. Consequently, Germany was not even close to where Iran is today in terms of developing a nuclear threat. Hitler was not even convinced that a nuclear bomb was even possible but Ahmadinejad sees it as a more effective Holocaust device.

Ahmadinejad believes "Allah" will protect Iran from annihilation, and I mean annihilation, were they to use a nuclear bomb?

[Aslan]

Ahmadinejad believes "Allah" will protect Iran from annihilation, and I mean annihilation, were they to use a nuclear bomb?

That scares me.

[vundy33]

I'm so sick of hearing this Iran nuclear ****...They're not going to touch us. They would be wiped off the map in weeks. We wouldn't even have to use any nukes or anything special.

Just hit their nuclear plants or whatever the heck they're called with air-strikes. There's nothing they could do about that. Good lord, we have the surrounded on both sides. Some of you forget that Iraq is on Iran's left and Afghanistan is on the right.

[TheRealVille]

I'm so sick of hearing this Iran nuclear ****...They're not going to touch us. They would be wiped off the map in weeks. We wouldn't even have to use any nukes or anything special.

Just hit their nuclear plants or whatever the heck they're called with air-strikes. There's nothing they could do about that. Good lord, we have the surrounded on both sides. Some of you forget that Iraq is on Iran's left and Afghanistan is on the right.

+1

[Mr.Kimball]

I'm so sick of hearing this Iran nuclear ****...They're not going to touch us. They would be wiped off the map in weeks. We wouldn't even have to use any nukes or anything special.

Just hit their nuclear plants or whatever the heck they're called with air-strikes. There's nothing they could do about that. Good lord, we have the surrounded on both sides. Some of you forget that Iraq is on Iran's left and Afghanistan is on the right.

That's all very true, we could wipe them off the face of the globe, but what happens when they take the first shot? Isreal is the one that could be blown off the map first. It's the long range nuclear tipped missles that present the problem. Your right, I dont think that the continental US is a feasible target, but Isreal and our European allies could be.

Also are you realizing the worldwide economic hostage potential that a nuclear armed Iran presents?


But I do agree with you on taking their installations out before they ever have a chance.

[Hoot Gibson]

Iran does not have to hit the US directly with a nuke to cause this country its biggest foreign policy crisis since WW II. The Iranians have at least three obvious options available that would make the Iranian hostage crisis look like a walk in the park.

• Strike the heart of Israel with a nuke and have Hezbollah and Hamas attack from Lebanon and Gaza at the same time. This is probably the worst option for Iran, at least before they manufacture a half dozen or so bombs.
  
  
• Provide Al Qaeda or other terrorist organization with a nuke to use against the US or Israel and then deny that it was one of their's.
  
  
• Provide terrorist organizations with enriched uranium to attack American interests (including our military in the Middle East) or Israel with dirty bombs.
  

This country really has no good options for dealing with the Iranian threat and our choices are diminishing every day that we do absolutely nothing but talk to the Iranian thugs from a teleprompter. American enemies around the world are laughing at Obama and just itching for a confrontation. Joe Biden is not a very bright fellow, but even he predicted that our enemies would try to take advantage after we elected a community organizer president.

Does anybody really have any confidence in Barack Obama, the military leader, to do make the right decisions in the event of an attack by an Iranian proxy? I don't.

It took Obama more than three months to respond to a request from our own military leaders for reinforcements for Afghanistan. I think that he is just as likely to blame Bush for another major terrorist attack on Americans as to confront Iran.

[thecavemaster]

Iran does not have to hit the US directly with a nuke to cause this country its biggest foreign policy crisis since WW II. The Iranians have at least three obvious options available that would make the Iranian hostage crisis look like a walk in the park.

• Strike the heart of Israel with a nuke and have Hezbollah and Hamas attack from Lebanon and Gaza at the same time. This is probably the worst option for Iran, at least before they manufacture a half dozen or so bombs.
  
  
• Provide Al Qaeda or other terrorist organization with a nuke to use against the US or Israel and then deny that it was one of their's.
  
  
• Provide terrorist organizations with enriched uranium to attack American interests (including our military in the Middle East) or Israel with dirty bombs.
  

This country really has no good options for dealing with the Iranian threat and our choices are diminishing every day that we do absolutely nothing but talk to the Iranian thugs from a teleprompter. American enemies around the world are laughing at Obama and just itching for a confrontation. Joe Biden is not a very bright fellow, but even he predicted that our enemies would try to take advantage after we elected a community organizer president.

Does anybody really have any confidence in Barack Obama, the military leader, to do make the right decisions in the event of an attack by an Iranian proxy? I don't.

It took Obama more than three months to respond to a request from our own military leaders for reinforcements for Afghanistan. I think that he is just as likely to blame Bush for another major terrorist attack on Americans as to confront Iran.

Good to see, Hoot, that you have your hand right on the pulse of our enemies, so close, in fact, that you can detect otherwise imperceptible laughter with your amazingly big hack ears.

[Hoot Gibson]

Good to see, Hoot, that you have your hand right on the pulse of our enemies, so close, in fact, that you can detect otherwise imperceptible laughter with your amazingly big hack ears.

I am guessing that you were too young to remember some of these same Iranians, including Iran's current president, laughing and taunting Jimmy Carter as they humiliated American hostages in Tehran. You may one day begin to realize the importance of learning the lessons from history that are there for the taking.

You can bet that the Iranians are smart enough to have learned some lessons during the first Carter term. Obama is deja-vu for Ahmadinejad.

[Mr.Kimball]

Good to see, Hoot, that you have your hand right on the pulse of our enemies, so close, in fact, that you can detect otherwise imperceptible laughter with your amazingly big hack ears.

I dont know why it is so hard for anyone to detect that everyone abroad is doing that when most everyone in the United States is doing the same thing, that is minus a few blind sheep.

[thecavemaster]

I dont know why it is so hard for anyone to detect that everyone abroad is doing that when most everyone in the United States is doing the same thing, that is minus a few blind sheep.

Well, looky, looky, big hack ears II... twin set... I didn't know if you guys were brothers or lovers.

[thecavemaster]

I am guessing that you were too young to remember some of these same Iranians, including Iran's current president, laughing and taunting Jimmy Carter as they humiliated American hostages in Tehran. You may one day begin to realize the importance of learning the lessons from history that are there for the taking.

You can bet that the Iranians are smart enough to have learned some lessons during the first Carter term. Obama is deja-vu for Ahmadinejad.

What do you know of the history of Iran? The Shah? Arms shipments? Covert operations? CIA involvement? Anyway, you make the big, broad statements: "enemies around the globe" kind of thing. The Obama = Carter thing, that's a hack mantra. If you say something often enough your hope is, I guess, that folks just sort of absorb it as accurate. You may one day begin to realize, nah... I assume you're too old to smell the stench of your own hack heart.

[Mr.Kimball]

Well, looky, looky, big hack ears II... twin set... I didn't know if you guys were brothers or lovers.

You've really got a lot to offer tonight. What a scum bucket!!!

[thecavemaster]

You've really got a lot to offer tonight. What a scum bucket!!!

You call the President of the United States "Hitler" and "Mao" and "Marxist" and then level the "scum bucket" charge over a little teasing? What a prickly sensitivity, there, my brother Kimball.

[Mr.Kimball]

You call the President of the United States "Hitler" and "Mao" and "Marxist" and then level the "scum bucket" charge over a little teasing? What a prickly sensitivity, there, my brother Kimball.

I didn't call him anything, but I guess I do need to make myself perfectly clear. I respect and reverence the position of The President of the United States of America for all that's in me. However, my opinion is like a mutitude of other Americans right now in that I do not respect B. Huessin Obama (the person) in any way, shape, form, or fashion. It has nothing to do with race ,creed, or even party affiliation. I think he is a liar and a sleezy, corrupt, underhanded manipulator. And yes, I do feel that he is a Marxist in principal, and I also feel that he has no business being The President of the United States of America. There should never be a future question on my position.


Maybe you were only teasing, but make no mistake, I'm not!!!

[Hoot Gibson]

You've really got a lot to offer tonight. What a scum bucket!!!

+1 I can count the radical left wingers who I have known who are not obnoxious jerks on my left hand and CM does not make the cut. :biggrin:

[Hoot Gibson]

You call the President of the United States "Hitler" and "Mao" and "Marxist" and then level the "scum bucket" charge over a little teasing? What a prickly sensitivity, there, my brother Kimball.

I would never call my president "Hitler" or "Mao," but if he is not a Marxist, then he is the most incompetent capitalist this country has ever seen. Either way, I look forward to the day that he announces that he will not be running for reelection to spend more time with his family.

[vundy33]

Your have 3 good points there Hoot but I see a few problems with them..

For one, Iran doesn't even have any nuclear warheads yet, so we are getting a little ahead of ourselves when we lay out these possibilities.

Secondly, Iran won't be providing the Taliban and especially Al-Queda with any nukes. Al-queda is Iran's biggest enemy besides Israel. The Taliban was always an ally until 11 September when Iran condemned the Taliban for the attacks.

Third, I don't think even the biggest and richest terrorist organizations have the resources to make a nuclear warhead or weapon out of enriched uranium and I doubt their ability to obtain it.

[Hoot Gibson]

Your have 3 good points there Hoot but I see a few problems with them..

For one, Iran doesn't even have any nuclear warheads yet, so we are getting a little ahead of ourselves when we lay out these possibilities.

Whether Iran does or does not have any warheads yet is irrelevant. The fact is Iran is actively working to develop nuclear weapons, and if left free to pursue that course it will have them.

This country has educated Iranian engineers for decades in our colleges. As an engineering student at UK, I had classes with many Iranian students and that period coincided with the Iranian hostage crisis. Iran is a wealthier nation than Pakistan, it has a large pool of highly educated engineers and scientists, and it has the desire to develop nuclear weapons. Iran will develop nuclear weapons.

The fact that Iran does not have an operational nuclear warhead is exactly why the US should have already taken measures to kill Iran's nuclear program.

Secondly, Iran won't be providing the Taliban and especially Al-Queda with any nukes. Al-queda is Iran's biggest enemy besides Israel. The Taliban was always an ally until 11 September when Iran condemned the Taliban for the attacks.

You may or may not be right about Iran not providing the Taliban or Al Qaeda with a nuke, but Iran has been funding terrorists in the Middle East for many years. Tactically, providing Al Qaeda with a nuke would offer the mullahs plausible deniability in the event of a detonation.

Would Barack Obama call for a retaliatory strike against Iran is Al Qaeda claimed credit for an attack on American citizens or would he just launch a criminal investigation and promise to bring those responsible to justice? I suspect that he would do the latter and then ride out the rest of his term.

Third, I don't think even the biggest and richest terrorist organizations have the resources to make a nuclear warhead or weapon out of enriched uranium and I doubt their ability to obtain it.

As I stated above, if Iran wants to see a weapon used against the US, it has a track record of funding terrorist operations in the past. There is no reason to think that Iran would not do so in the future. And a dirty bomb using enriched uranium would not be an expensive weapon to develop or deploy.

[baller4life]

iran is skank

[vundy33]

I agree 100% Hoot.

Whether Iran does or does not have any warheads yet is irrelevant. The fact is Iran is actively working to develop nuclear weapons, and if left free to pursue that course it will have them.

This country has educated Iranian engineers for decades in our colleges. As an engineering student at UK, I had classes with many Iranian students and that period coincided with the Iranian hostage crisis. Iran is a wealthier nation than Pakistan, it has a large pool of highly educated engineers and scientists, and it has the desire to develop nuclear weapons. Iran will develop nuclear weapons.

The fact that Iran does not have an operational nuclear warhead is exactly why the US should have already taken measures to kill Iran's nuclear program.

You may or may not be right about Iran not providing the Taliban or Al Qaeda with a nuke, but Iran has been funding terrorists in the Middle East for many years. Tactically, providing Al Qaeda with a nuke would offer the mullahs plausible deniability in the event of a detonation.

Would Barack Obama call for a retaliatory strike against Iran is Al Qaeda claimed credit for an attack on American citizens or would he just launch a criminal investigation and promise to bring those responsible to justice? I suspect that he would do the latter and then ride out the rest of his term.

As I stated above, if Iran wants to see a weapon used against the US, it has a track record of funding terrorist operations in the past. There is no reason to think that Iran would not do so in the future. And a dirty bomb using enriched uranium would not be an expensive weapon to develop or deploy.

[thecavemaster]

As I understand it, if you look at all the possible sites that would have to be taken out, at the depth that some of them are.... with, then, a continued existence of the technological know-how.... the choice may well be between coming to terms with a nuclear Iran, or embroiling ourselves in a highly flammable, highly toxic, highly destabilizing "can't get the desired effect" bombing campaign.

[vundy33]

Make no mistake, we could easily take out [B]every[B] one of there sites with our air power, even the underground ones.

[Beetle01]

Make no mistake, we could easily take out [B]every[B] one of there sites with our air power, even the underground ones.

That is not entirely true. For one they are not even sure they know where all the sites are located. Secondly the Iranians planned for this, and those sites are heavily fortified against air strikes.

Even if we are able to destroy the reactors, who knows if they are hiding materials deep under some mountain.

They are likely to already possess a bomb, heck we cant trust the UN for proper intelligence, even they say Iran is close to a bomb, so in reality they have probably had one for months.

Most assume a launch against Israel is Irans first reaction, but I believe they will launch on Europe. It would be the smart play for them. They could turn the European continent against us, as Im sure we'd be blamed as responsible.

It seems most people are under the assumption that when the time comes we will just drop a few bombs, blow up some underground facilities and everything will be alright. That is not the case, Iran has been preparing for this for over a decade, dont expect it to be easy, it will require a regime change if we make any strike against Iran.

[zaga_fan]

It says in the Bible that there will be peace in the middle east. However, this will last only for a little while because Russia, Iran, and a few other countries will attack Israel. I heard from multiple people that Israel shouldn't stand a chance against such a large military force. But God himself protects Israel. The chapter below is the chapter that talks about this (I got it from biblegateway.com). Notice that in verse 16, it mentions this will happen "in the latter days," or the last days. Right now, I would like to beg those who haven't given their life to Christ to give their life to God, repent of all of their sins, and to "carry the cross" or be willing to give up their life and suffer for God. Jesus is coming very soon!

Ezekiel 38 (King James Version)

1) And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

2) Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him,

3) And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

4) And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:

5) Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:

6) Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.

7) Be thou prepared, and prepare for thyself, thou, and all thy company that are assembled unto thee, and be thou a guard unto them.

8) After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

9) Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee.

10) Thus saith the Lord GOD; It shall also come to pass, that at the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought:

11) And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,

12) To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land.

13) Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, Art thou come to take a spoil? hast thou gathered thy company to take a prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil?

14) Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say unto Gog, Thus saith the Lord GOD; In that day when my people of Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know it?

15) And thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts, thou, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a great company, and a mighty army:

16) And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.

17) Thus saith the Lord GOD; Art thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them?

18) And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that my fury shall come up in my face.

19) For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;

20) So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.

21) And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord GOD: every man's sword shall be against his brother.

22) And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.

23) Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD.

Israel wasn't given much chance in the six day war either.
But somehow that little army stood up to Egypt, Jordan, and Syria's armies(who were given troops and arms from several other countries)....
overtook the Sinai Peninsula, the Gaza Strip, the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and the Golan Heights...
until they signed a cease fire.
God has his hand over Israel and I think if we back them up His hand will be over us as well.

[Aslan]

Israel wasn't given much chance in the six day war either.
But somehow that little army stood up to Egypt, Jordan, and Syria's armies(who were given troops and arms from several other countries)....
overtook the Sinai Peninsula, the Gaza Strip, the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and the Golan Heights...
until they signed a cease fire.
God has his hand over Israel and I think if we back them up His hand will be over us as well.

:Thumbs:
You sound like a preacher

[vundy33]

That is not entirely true. For one they are not even sure they know where all the sites are located. Secondly the Iranians planned for this, and those sites are heavily fortified against air strikes.

Even if we are able to destroy the reactors, who knows if they are hiding materials deep under some mountain.

They are likely to already possess a bomb, heck we cant trust the UN for proper intelligence, even they say Iran is close to a bomb, so in reality they have probably had one for months.

Most assume a launch against Israel is Irans first reaction, but I believe they will launch on Europe. It would be the smart play for them. They could turn the European continent against us, as Im sure we'd be blamed as responsible.

It seems most people are under the assumption that when the time comes we will just drop a few bombs, blow up some underground facilities and everything will be alright. That is not the case, Iran has been preparing for this for over a decade, dont expect it to be easy, it will require a regime change if we make any strike against Iran.

Man come one, we have bunker penetrating bombs that you know nothing about. I would bet my life that we also have some CIA and Delta teams in Iran as we speak. If we wanted to put up with the *****ing and crying from "peaceful" countries like France, we could easily make Iran no longer a threat.

[Hoot Gibson]

Israel recently announced that its new fleet of drones can stay airborne for 20 hours and fly at 40,000 ft.+, which puts Iran in range. The drones will not be enough to take out any nuclear facilities but Israel may already know exactly what to target.