[Wildcatk23]

I love the law. I think every home in the united states should randomly be checked for illegal Immigrants all year round. Its hard to telling how many more jobs there would be for American citizens.

[Hoot Gibson]

Why is it, Hoot, when it suits your purposes, you become the naive idealist. A certain percentage of policeman, you know it and I know it, are going to use this law as pretext for all manner of abuse. In the real world, this law is a racial profiler's delight.

You should try reading posts before responding to them. You addressed your response to me but if you read very carefully, you will see that Old School wrote both sentences to which you responded.

There will be a small percentage of policeman who will just make up rules as they go along. However, that is no reason for the overwhelming percentage of good cops to stop enforcing reasonable laws.

There will also be Latino citizens who are illegal alien advocates on the streets with no driver's license or other id refusing to speak English, behaving suspiciously, and trying to provoke good policemen into asking them to prove their citizenship. No doubt the Obama media will soon have some poster children to trot out on MSNBC.

[HAIL PIKEVILLE!]

Every Fascist movement in history began with, "Let me see your papers".

......And you should know.

[ROCKSOLID69]

Our Country is fallin apart. They give people from other country more right then any other US citizen.

[thecavemaster]

You should try reading posts before responding to them. You addressed your response to me but if you read very carefully, you will see that Old School wrote both sentences to which you responded.

There will be a small percentage of policeman who will just make up rules as they go along. However, that is no reason for the overwhelming percentage of good cops to stop enforcing reasonable laws.

There will also be Latino citizens who are illegal alien advocates on the streets with no driver's license or other id refusing to speak English, behaving suspiciously, and trying to provoke good policemen into asking them to prove their citizenship. No doubt the Obama media will soon have some poster children to trot out on MSNBC.

I stand corrected, Hoot, my apologies on the mistake. Just so we're clear: I support comprehensive immigration reform. The piecemeal way we do it doesn't work. Period. I believe that illegals currently in this country who are working should be given a relatively simple formula for becoming citizens, perhaps avoiding a fine in they can communicate in English within one year of filing for citizenship. I simply think the current law that will go into effect in Arizona in a couple of months invites bad practice on the part of law enforcement officials. I am disagreeing with the law, by the way, not calling names or making accusations.

[Old School]

This was sent to me today via email, and pretty much explains the illegal issue.
A lady wrote the best letter in the Editorials in ages!!!
It explains things better than all the baloney you hear on TV.

Her point:

Recently large demonstrations have taken place across the country protesting the fact that Congress is finally addressing the issue of illegal immigration.
Certain people are angry that the U.S. might protect its own borders, might make it harder to sneak into this country and, once here, to stay indefinitely.
Let me see if I correctly understand the thinking behind these protests.
Let's say I break into your house.
Let's say that when you discover me in your house, you insist that I leave.
But I say, 'No! I like it here. It's better than my house. I've made all the beds and washed the dishes and did the laundry and swept the floors. I've done all the things you don't like to do. I'm hard-working and honest (except for when I broke into your house).

According to the protesters:
You are Required to let me stay in your house
You are Required to feed me
You are Required to add me to your family's insurance plan
You are Required to Educate my kids
You are Required to Provide other benefits to me & to my family
My husband will do all of your yard work because he is also hard-working and honest. (except for that breaking in part).
If you try to call the police or force me out, I will call my friends who will picket your house carrying signs that proclaim my RIGHT to be there.

It's only fair, after all, because you have a nicer house than I do, and I'm just trying to better myself. I'm a hard-working and honest, person, except for well, you know, I did break into your house
And what a deal it is for me!!!

I live in your house, contributing only a fraction of the cost of my keep, and there is nothing you can do about it without being accused of cold, uncaring, selfish, prejudiced, and bigoted behavior.

Oh yeah, and I DEMAND that you learn MY LANGUAGE!!! so that you can communicate with me.
Why can't people see how ridiculous this is?!

[Hoot Gibson]

I stand corrected, Hoot, my apologies on the mistake. Just so we're clear: I support comprehensive immigration reform. The piecemeal way we do it doesn't work. Period. I believe that illegals currently in this country who are working should be given a relatively simple formula for becoming citizens, perhaps avoiding a fine in they can communicate in English within one year of filing for citizenship. I simply think the current law that will go into effect in Arizona in a couple of months invites bad practice on the part of law enforcement officials. I am disagreeing with the law, by the way, not calling names or making accusations.

No immigration "reform" will work as long as our borders remain wide open. Great nations control immigration and cherry pick among the people who want to become citizens. Neither the Republican nor the Democrat Party really want true immigration reform. If they did, we would have a very substantial fence protecting the citizens of Arizona.

Illegal immigration is destroying Arizona. I declined to apply for an otherwise great position in Phoenix for that very reason. By some accounts, Phoenix has a kidnapping rate that is triple the rate of Mexico City, on a per capita basis. Kidnappings in Arizona is one of the most under reported stories of this century.

[thecavemaster]

This was sent to me today via email, and pretty much explains the illegal issue.
A lady wrote the best letter in the Editorials in ages!!!
It explains things better than all the baloney you hear on TV.

Her point:

Recently large demonstrations have taken place across the country protesting the fact that Congress is finally addressing the issue of illegal immigration.
Certain people are angry that the U.S. might protect its own borders, might make it harder to sneak into this country and, once here, to stay indefinitely.
Let me see if I correctly understand the thinking behind these protests.
Let's say I break into your house.
Let's say that when you discover me in your house, you insist that I leave.
But I say, 'No! I like it here. It's better than my house. I've made all the beds and washed the dishes and did the laundry and swept the floors. I've done all the things you don't like to do. I'm hard-working and honest (except for when I broke into your house).

According to the protesters:
You are Required to let me stay in your house
You are Required to feed me
You are Required to add me to your family's insurance plan
You are Required to Educate my kids
You are Required to Provide other benefits to me & to my family
My husband will do all of your yard work because he is also hard-working and honest. (except for that breaking in part).
If you try to call the police or force me out, I will call my friends who will picket your house carrying signs that proclaim my RIGHT to be there.

It's only fair, after all, because you have a nicer house than I do, and I'm just trying to better myself. I'm a hard-working and honest, person, except for well, you know, I did break into your house
And what a deal it is for me!!!

I live in your house, contributing only a fraction of the cost of my keep, and there is nothing you can do about it without being accused of cold, uncaring, selfish, prejudiced, and bigoted behavior.

Oh yeah, and I DEMAND that you learn MY LANGUAGE!!! so that you can communicate with me.
Why can't people see how ridiculous this is?!

This is clever and well conceived; however, I'm not sure it quite encompasses the concern about the Arizona law. "Hey, you look Mexican, let me fingerprint you and see if it matches the fingerprints in my house." Implied assumption: you are Mexican; a Mexican must have broken into my house; therefore, you must prove you didn't break into my house." ... that sort of thing. ...clever all the same.

[BillyB]

This was sent to me today via email, and pretty much explains the illegal issue.
A lady wrote the best letter in the Editorials in ages!!!
It explains things better than all the baloney you hear on TV.

Her point:

Recently large demonstrations have taken place across the country protesting the fact that Congress is finally addressing the issue of illegal immigration.
Certain people are angry that the U.S. might protect its own borders, might make it harder to sneak into this country and, once here, to stay indefinitely.
Let me see if I correctly understand the thinking behind these protests.
Let's say I break into your house.
Let's say that when you discover me in your house, you insist that I leave.
But I say, 'No! I like it here. It's better than my house. I've made all the beds and washed the dishes and did the laundry and swept the floors. I've done all the things you don't like to do. I'm hard-working and honest (except for when I broke into your house).

According to the protesters:
You are Required to let me stay in your house
You are Required to feed me
You are Required to add me to your family's insurance plan
You are Required to Educate my kids
You are Required to Provide other benefits to me & to my family
My husband will do all of your yard work because he is also hard-working and honest. (except for that breaking in part).
If you try to call the police or force me out, I will call my friends who will picket your house carrying signs that proclaim my RIGHT to be there.

It's only fair, after all, because you have a nicer house than I do, and I'm just trying to better myself. I'm a hard-working and honest, person, except for well, you know, I did break into your house
And what a deal it is for me!!!

I live in your house, contributing only a fraction of the cost of my keep, and there is nothing you can do about it without being accused of cold, uncaring, selfish, prejudiced, and bigoted behavior.

Oh yeah, and I DEMAND that you learn MY LANGUAGE!!! so that you can communicate with me.
Why can't people see how ridiculous this is?!

Oh, it's very ridiculous. The analogy that is.

[Old School]

This is clever and well conceived; however, I'm not sure it quite encompasses the concern about the Arizona law. "Hey, you look Mexican, let me fingerprint you and see if it matches the fingerprints in my house." Implied assumption: you are Mexican; a Mexican must have broken into my house; therefore, you must prove you didn't break into my house." ... that sort of thing. ...clever all the same.

There you go again, just more left wing misinformation. You know that the law states a person has to be stopped for some other violation before they can be asked to show ID. BTW this law has been on the federal books for years, but never enforced.

If illegals are continued to cross our boarders as they are now, this could very happen in the future.

Oh, it's very ridiculous. The analogy that is.

Let me ask you a few questions. Do you work? Do you pay taxes? If so then you don't mind supporting the millions of illegals to send all of their money if any, back to their home land? If you don't pay taxes, I could see why you wouldn't care.

[BillyB]

Let me ask you a few questions. Do you work? Do you pay taxes? If so then you don't mind supporting the millions of illegals to send all of their money if any, back to their home land? If you don't pay taxes, I could see why you wouldn't care.

Yes and yes.

[Old School]

Yes and yes.

So you don't mind your tax dollars going to illegals so they can sit around getting free health care, education, food and housing. While taking away from true U.S. citizens. Really why should anyone use the proper channels to gain U.S. citizenship, when they sneak into this country and be given amnesty.

I for one would like to see a fence or wall built and the U.S. establish several stations similar to Ellis Islands along our borders to help control illegals from entering this country.

[BillyB]

So you don't mind your tax dollars going to illegals so they can sit around getting free health care, education, food and housing. While taking away from true U.S. citizens. Really why should anyone use the proper channels to gain U.S. citizenship, when they sneak into this country and be given amnesty.

I for one would like to see a fence or wall built and the U.S. establish several stations similar to Ellis Islands along our borders to help control illegals from entering this country.

I didn't say that, you did. All I said was that the analogy was way off base. Rather than you predicting what I think, I'll tell you. Personally, I'd like to see much better border security. If that means a wall or something similar, I'm ok with that. Then we deal with the persons who are here illegally and there should be some path to citizenship. I also think that we should have the ability to track -- at any moment -- anyone in the country. I understand the sentiment behind the AZ law, but I'm concerned it's going to be abused.

[BoondockSaint]

I didn't say that, you did. All I said was that the analogy was way off base. Rather than you predicting what I think, I'll tell you. Personally, I'd like to see much better border security. If that means a wall or something similar, I'm ok with that. Then we deal with the persons who are here illegally and there should be some path to citizenship. I also think that we should have the ability to track -- at any moment -- anyone in the country. I understand the sentiment behind the AZ law, but I'm concerned it's going to be abused.

1st Bold - So we should give someone who already broke our immigration law amnesty or citizenship? You have to be kidding.

2nd Bold - This statement invalidates anything of worth you may have ever said. I hope you lose your right to vote, if you have one, and move to China immediately.

[BillyB]

1st Bold - So we should give someone who already broke our immigration law amnesty or citizenship? You have to be kidding.

2nd Bold - This statement invalidates anything of worth you may have ever said. I hope you lose your right to vote, if you have one, and move to China immediately.

1. Not kidding. I don't want to spend all the time and money necessary to round up every illegal. We will always have a liberal immigration policy with Mexico so no need to fight it. Send the troublemakers back, let the rest stay if they want to do what they have to to become citizens. If not, they go home.

2. You know I'm talking about immigrants, not citizens, right?

[TheRealVille]

So you don't mind your tax dollars going to illegals so they can sit around getting free health care, education, food and housing. While taking away from true U.S. citizens. Really why should anyone use the proper channels to gain U.S. citizenship, when they sneak into this country and be given amnesty.

I for one would like to see a fence or wall built and the U.S. establish several stations similar to Ellis Islands along our borders to help control illegals from entering this country.

The Mexicans I see and know, are doing jobs our lazy *** Americans on welfare won't do. All the ones that I see and know don't "sit around", they work their *** off. Most "true Americans" won't do the jobs you see Mexicans do.

[Old School]

The Mexicans I see and know, are doing jobs our lazy *** Americans on welfare won't do. All the ones that I see and know don't "sit around", they work their *** off. Most "true Americans" won't do the jobs you see Mexicans do.

I'm sure it's a lot different here in Ky. than it is in the border states. Take Arizona for instance crime rates such as kidnapping, murder and drugs related crimes have soared due to illegals.

[Old School]

An interesting comment from Teddy Roosevelt - 1907

[B][I]'In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American.... There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language.. And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.'[/I][/B]

[B][I]Theodore Roosevelt 1907
[/I][/B]

[Beetle01]

The Mexicans I see and know, are doing jobs our lazy *** Americans on welfare won't do. All the ones that I see and know don't "sit around", they work their *** off. Most "true Americans" won't do the jobs you see Mexicans do.

This isnt about Mexicans, its about illegal immigrants. Plenty come here the right way, work hard and do things properly. No problem with them.

[Matman]

I do not see what the problem is. Its just a state that is adopting a federal law that is already a law. The arguement should not be about the law since it is not new but who is supposed to enforce it. Apparently the feds wasn't able to enforce it so the state took over. I think we should applaud it. It takes the burden off from us to deal with their problems. The state who it affects will have the responsibility. They are more inform about its effects anyways. It seems that most arguements are coming due to a distrust of our law enforcement officers. That is just sad.

[Hoot Gibson]

I do not see what the problem is. Its just a state that is adopting a federal law that is already a law. The arguement should not be about the law since it is not new but who is supposed to enforce it. Apparently the feds wasn't able to enforce it so the state took over. I think we should applaud it. It takes the burden off from us to deal with their problems. The state who it affects will have the responsibility. They are more inform about its effects anyways. It seems that most arguements are coming due to a distrust of our law enforcement officers. That is just sad.

Is it not strange how the federal government twists state's arms to write laws to comply with unfunded mandates and ignore the Tenth Amendment in areas such as drug enforcement and environmental matters, yet go ballistic when a state decides to adopt and enforce federal immigration laws that the feds refuse to enforce themselves?

[thecavemaster]

Before we get all teary eyed and "salute the flag" about law enforcement officials, let's take a step back. Local law enforcement jobs don't pay all that well and often attract, shall we say, less than professional grade folks. The turnover rate is fairly high, and training before "on the street" is frequently a six week course. I am not arguing here that all local police are Ernest T. Bass in a uniform; however, I am suggesting certain restraint on the "in praise of our uniformed police" line of reasoning.

[Matman]

Before we get all teary eyed and "salute the flag" about law enforcement officials, let's take a step back. Local law enforcement jobs don't pay all that well and often attract, shall we say, less than professional grade folks. The turnover rate is fairly high, and training before "on the street" is frequently a six week course. I am not arguing here that all local police are Ernest T. Bass in a uniform; however, I am suggesting certain restraint on the "in praise of our uniformed police" line of reasoning.

Law enforcement training is varried greatly from area to area. Our state troopers spend a little more than 6 weeks in training and my opinion is that they are the example for professionalism. My best freind is a Border Patrol Agent in Arizona and says their hands are tied by regualation. He also spent a bit more than 6 weeks in training and is paid well. Law enforcement jobs do pay well in some areas. With the exception of city police and sheriff deputies the pay of law enforcement in this area is well above the average. I think they will be perfectly qualified to do their job.

[Hoot Gibson]

Yes, what we need are extremely well trained federal employees who are not allowed to enforce our immigration laws because of political considerations. Sure, a few hundred people would continue to be kidnapped in Phoenix each year, but not a single American citizen would be asked to prove his or her citizenship by an under-trained local law enforcement officer. By all means, CM, let's make sure that our priorities are correct and leave the non-enforcement of immigration laws to well-trained professionals.

[thecavemaster]

Yes, what we need are extremely well trained federal employees who are not allowed to enforce our immigration laws because of political considerations. Sure, a few hundred people would continue to be kidnapped in Phoenix each year, but not a single American citizen would be asked to prove his or her citizenship by an under-trained local law enforcement officer. By all means, CM, let's make sure that our priorities are correct and leave the non-enforcement of immigration laws to well-trained professionals.

Let's be clear: we need reform in the entire immigration policy subject area. However, I oppose the current Arizona law for reasons already stated. Why that would mean I would advocate non-enforcement has more to do with the haphazard way you debate, Hoot, that any legitimate point to be made.

[Hoot Gibson]

Let's be clear: we need reform in the entire immigration policy subject area. However, I oppose the current Arizona law for reasons already stated. Why that would mean I would advocate non-enforcement has more to do with the haphazard way you debate, Hoot, that any legitimate point to be made.

"Reform" that does nothing to stop the flood of illegal aliens into this country is a misnomer. The first thing that needs to be done when the basement is flooding is to turn off the water. Next, the job calls for a good sump pump - which requires stiff penalties (including jail time) for employers who knowingly or negligently employee illegals. Most illegals would self-deport if they had no means of supporting themselves. Finally, we need an immigration system that addresses our long-term prospect of labor shortage by promptly processing applications by Mexicans and others who have no criminal record and the skills needed in areas where there is a shortage of qualified workers.

Just granting citizenship to millions of illegal aliens (a/k/a prospective Democrat votes) is anything but "reform."

[Old School]

Eric Holder has said that the Arizona law will lead to profiling, but guess what he hasn't read the 10 page law. He admitted to basing his opinion on newspaper articles.

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXGhcyu54WU&feature=related"]YouTube- Eric Holder and AZ Immigration Law[/nomedia]

or

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGvaw6Et6VE&feature=related"]YouTube- Holder's 2-Faced Lie On AZ Immigration Law[/nomedia]

[Old School]

Frist holder admitted to not reading the law. Now a State Department spokesman and Napolitano have both admitted to not reading the law even though they have been bashing the new law since the day it was passed.

This State Department spokesman hasn't.
http://www.breitbart.tv/state-department...t-read-it/

Neither has Janet Napolitano.
http://www.breitbart.tv/napolitano-admit...in-detail/

[thecavemaster]

"Reform" that does nothing to stop the flood of illegal aliens into this country is a misnomer. The first thing that needs to be done when the basement is flooding is to turn off the water. Next, the job calls for a good sump pump - which requires stiff penalties (including jail time) for employers who knowingly or negligently employee illegals. Most illegals would self-deport if they had no means of supporting themselves. Finally, we need an immigration system that addresses our long-term prospect of labor shortage by promptly processing applications by Mexicans and others who have no criminal record and the skills needed in areas where there is a shortage of qualified workers.

Just granting citizenship to millions of illegal aliens (a/k/a prospective Democrat votes) is anything but "reform."

As long as the enforcement of the type of policy you mention is carried out with human dignity and suffering in mind, I could support it. One has to have "heart light" for immigrants working in America to send money back to relatives crushed by poverty in Mexico; however, let's face it, Mexico is getting the wealth in this arrangement and America is getting the social problems. In a for instance, Dodge City, Kansas, and that area, has tons of illegal immigrants working in the winepress that is a meatpacking plant. Those plants would find it impossible to fill those jobs without immigrants, legal and illegal. It's no pleasant place to work, it's no easy dilemma to think through.

[Old School]

Mexican President Felipe Calderon has been ripping into Arizona's immigration law as he tours Washington -- while appearing to disregard the way his own country cracks down on immigrants along Mexico's southern border.
Mexico repeatedly has been cited by human rights groups for abusing or turning a blind eye to the abuse of migrants from Central America. Until recently, Mexican law made illegal immigration a criminal offense -- anyone arrested for the violation could be fined, imprisoned for up to two years and deported. Mexican lawmakers changed that in 2008 to make illegal immigration a civil violation like it is in the United States, but their law still reads an awful lot like Arizona's.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/05/...on-policy/