[KentuckyHillBilly5321]

?... I said I don't think it was not done purposely .. so that means I wouldn't blame anybody

I understand and agree--however--if a person is driving down the street and they accidently hit a person and they die--they still hold some level of accountability.

There is plenty of blame to go around. But I don't think that any of us should close our eyes to any aspect of this situation.

If I am badgering you--I am sorry.

I have an acquired (and trained) mind to be skeptical--and this stinks.

[KentuckyHillBilly5321]

Since you want somebody to blame.. why don't you blame the command center... they were the one's who got the information and told it to people.. and that was the information that ended up being a miscommunication... but like I said before.. why would you blame anybody right now??

Why? Because they didn't leak the information. All of the people who were involved their HAVE CONTROLLED THEIR INFORMATION FLOW FROM THE BEGINNING. It is a historical fact.

There is one person who hasn't kept their mouth shut. He thought that he was sharing information for the families best interest--but he jumped the gun.

SEE THE USA TODAY ON THE TV. Remember--the press must verify their facts--or they get sued to hell and back.

[15thRegionCrazy]

Somebody had to tell him the news... so there is no way I would blame him for telling the families.. he thought he was relaying great news to them.. anybody would tell that if they heard it

[KentuckyHillBilly5321]

The press hammers everyone not just the Govenor. Your trying to blame the Governor only, thats pretty weak. You can't be 100% positive on who to blame. I am outraged too but I'm not going to blame just one person, you never know who the company could have talked to unless you were there. I just want to thank the rescue workers who went in there risking their own lifes and I'll be praying for the families. No matter who is to blame, this is all horrible!

Don't worry--I am sure that I will have a lot more blame to pass around. But in order to uncover the truth--you always start at the top.

Horrible is putting it lightly.

The funny thing is--that this board has given me a great look at the people of EKY--and alot of EKY people are the same kind of people that died in that mine. You guys are a tougher breed than what we see around here--and to know that some of you put your life on the line to make a living humbles the hell out of me.

I am not trying to say that I am outraged for you guys--but I would go physco nuts if something happened to one of the fine people that I have conversed on this board. There are too many similarities--and it bothers me.

[BallaBaby]

You can also pass the around to the CEO of the Company, a woman just said that he came and told them that the miners were alive and showed them how he planed on getting them out. There are no WORDS or WORD to describe this. I do agree with 15th on her posts tho!

[15thRegionCrazy]

Listening to these family members is heartwrenching... how they were told by the CEO of the plan to bring their loved ones out to them to be together once again. I agree with these women.. Nothing should have been said until everything was exactly right.. but I guess in this situation after hearing 12 were alive anybody would want to tell because it was such great news.... She also said they told them they can't find the bodies.. but are telling them they're dead.. so until the bodies are found how can they say they're dead.. i'm praying for these families .. i know they are going through unbearable pain

[sportwhiz]

My heart and prayers go out to the families of all involved.

A lot of bad miscommunication.

My question: Why didn't the miners try to get out after the explosion? They have an air pack that will last 1 hour. They were 2 miles deep onto the mine. They had plenty of air to make it out. From what all has been said, it appears they didn't try to see if the tunnel was open to make it out. It appears they went straight to barakading themselves in. Could they have made it out, if they had tried??????????????

Maybe a miner on here can tell us why they did what they did.

[PHSFAN]

I heard that Ben Hatfield, the CEO of ICG, is a graduate of Belfry High and was over the company in Martin County a few years ago that had the disaster where the pond broke and flooded everything. This is just so unfortunate. I hate to put the blame on anyone because I'm sure it was a honest mistake but it is a very painful mistake to the families....very sad and unfortunate. The one thing that bothers me is that the officals knew 20 minutes after they got the info that the miners were alive that it was false information. I understand that they wanted to get conformation on the numbers but they should have at least told the families that they were having conflicting reports on how many were alive.

[CatDawg]

My heart and prayers go out to the families of all involved.

A lot of bad miscommunication.

My question: Why didn't the miners try to get out after the explosion? They have an air pack that will last 1 hour. They were 2 miles deep onto the mine. They had plenty of air to make it out. From what all has been said, it appears they didn't try to see if the tunnel was open to make it out. It appears they went straight to barakading themselves in. Could they have made it out, if they had tried??????????????

Maybe a miner on here can tell us why they did what they did.

Training in this situation is similiar to the hug a tree training if your lost in the woods. You baricade yourself in a area that appears to be safe make it secure and wait for rescue. A mine isn't just a straight line in and out so if you start wondering around even if you know your way around its not hard to get lost especially if you have lighting problems after an explosion. Another reason say you use your one hour of air to try to get out and you get half way out and find out that your blocked off you probably won't have enough air to barricade or get through. So the best bet is to stay put and secure yourself. Seems hard to sit there and wait but that's what you need to do.

And we don't know at this time if they had injuries that would have prevented them from making that walk out or at least delayed the walk.

[CatDawg]

I heard that Ben Hatfield, the CEO of ICG, is a graduate of Belfry High and was over the company in Martin County a few years ago that had the disaster where the pond broke and flooded everything. This is just so unfortunate. I hate to put the blame on anyone because I'm sure it was a honest mistake but it is a very painful mistake to the families....very sad and unfortunate. The one thing that bothers me is that the officals knew 20 minutes after they got the info that the miners were alive that it was false information. I understand that they wanted to get conformation on the numbers but they should have at least told the families that they were having conflicting reports on how many were alive.

I felt the same way last night. At least come in and let them know that much so they could prepare for the worst.

[CatDawg]

The one hour of air that everyone keeps talking about is under normal breathing situations. Sitting around not under any distress or much movement.

For instance the old 30 minute air bottles that firefighters use usually run out of air in about 20 minutes under normal firefighting activity but depending on the shape your in and how much your working it can last more or less than the 20 minutes. I remember being on a fire when one only lasted my partner about 10 minutes. Each person breaths and reacts differently to similar situations.

[CatDawg]

I really don't think the company was at fault with the release just from the manner they handled the rest of the situation. They tried to dot their I's and cross their T's throughout the entire time. I'm willing to bet their lawyer was right there the entire time making sure they didn't say the wrong thing. Still think they should have made some statement to the family once they knew they had conflicts in the number alive.

Don't blame the Gov. pretty much similar reasons and POLITICS.

Command center now here's what I want to know if the Incident Commander was in the center as he should have been running the show nothing I MEAN NOTHING should have gotten out of that center until all was confirmed.

For instance (rescue team to command. Go ahead command. Rescue team has located the miners and we have 12 alive. Command copies miners have been located and 12 alive. Command that is correct miners located and we have 12 alive. Command copies 12 alive then from their ask what resources they will require.) Once they know what is needed those units need to be notified.

(1) Now was an authorized person in the command center thought he heard something and was thrilled and started telling others. HIGHLY POSSIBLE

(2) Did someone have a scanner in the area and thought they heard something and started telling others. VERY HIGHLY POSSIBLE

(3) The command center screwed up and didn't confirm or was part of the miscommunication and someone that was inside told another emergency worker and spread like wildfire. VERY HIGHLY POSSIBLE.

So many possibilities but I don't think anyone did it on purpose.

Keep them all in our prayers.

[MOJO]

I heard that Ben Hatfield, the CEO of ICG, is a graduate of Belfry High and was over the company in Martin County a few years ago that had the disaster where the pond broke and flooded everything. This is just so unfortunate. I hate to put the blame on anyone because I'm sure it was a honest mistake but it is a very painful mistake to the families....very sad and unfortunate. The one thing that bothers me is that the officals knew 20 minutes after they got the info that the miners were alive that it was false information. I understand that they wanted to get conformation on the numbers but they should have at least told the families that they were having conflicting reports on how many were alive.

I could be wrong but I was thinking it was his brother Daryl that was over the Martin Co. sludge spill??

[PHSFAN]

I could be wrong but I was thinking it was his brother Daryl that was over the Martin Co. sludge spill??

You may be right Mojo. Whether it is him or his brother, this is 2 huge disaters that were under his or his brothers watch....Mr. Hatfield is going to take a lot of heat over this, some deserving and some undeserving IMO.

[Pirate Pal]

Let me try to clear some things up....

My father was vice president and president of 2 major mines in WV. He has known Ben Hatfield for some 30 years +. Ben is a very good, honest man. His company just bought this mines from Anker Mining 2 months ago. He was not the one who informed the families of the miners being alive. The information came from a mine foreman that was standing at the porthole or main opening of the mines who did not hear all of the information coming from the rescue workers and took it upon himself to call a person in the church and say that all 12 were found alive. The word spread quickly throughout the church. The command center released no information of anykind to anyone. I do think that the families should have been informed of the mistake as soon as the command center received the confirmation 20 minutes later that all but 1 was dead. It is now being reported by a person that was in the church that someone in a red cross vest was the one who said that the men would be coming straight to the church.



My grandfather was a miner, my father was a miner for over 35 years and now is a coal buyer for Power Companies, but most importantly, my husband is a Chief Electrician in the mines. He became a miner at the age of 18. He has 18 years experience in the mines. He goes underground everyday. He and my dad have more knowledge of mines than anyone I know. Like I said, my dad worked his way up in the mines from the bottom to the top.

This accident was one that is no one's fault. You can't predict what will happen when you enter a mines. Every miner knows this. If the fire boss calls out that the mine levels are safe, then you can bet that it was safe to enter the mines that day. If the explosion came from an adjacent shaft that had been mined out and sealed (which is being speculated about on the news) then it was probable that the gas was contained in that shaft and that a roof collapse in the sealed shaft led to the explosion. This would happen if 2 metal roof bolts had come together and caused a spark when the roof collapsed. I don't know, but that is just one possible theory.

I think that the media has once again blown things out of proportion and ignited a lot of the blame game for their own ratings.

I pray for the families of the miners who lost their lives. I pray for the families of every miner that goes into the mines to work everyday. I pray that everyone will quit trying to point fingers and remember that nothing can bring back the loved ones lost in that tragic accident. I pray that the healing will begin.

[PHSFAN]

Good post PP...thanks for all the great info.

[theultimate1]

Not much to say that hasn't already been said...it's a sad thing to happen no matter who's to blame. Thanks for the info.

[BallaBaby]

My dad told me all about those air packs and has basically told me everything CD has said. He works in the coal industry and goes through training for situations like this, he's told me a lot of stuff but some of which is hard to understand because I'm not really that knowledgeable when it comes to this.
Also, it was Ben Hatfields brother Dennis who is in charge of the mines in Martin Co. because thats who my father works for.

[CatDawg]

Let me try to clear some things up....

My father was vice president and president of 2 major mines in WV. He has known Ben Hatfield for some 30 years +. Ben is a very good, honest man. His company just bought this mines from Anker Mining 2 months ago. He was not the one who informed the families of the miners being alive. The information came from a mine foreman that was standing at the porthole or main opening of the mines who did not hear all of the information coming from the rescue workers and took it upon himself to call a person in the church and say that all 12 were found alive. The word spread quickly throughout the church. The command center released no information of anykind to anyone. I do think that the families should have been informed of the mistake as soon as the command center received the confirmation 20 minutes later that all but 1 was dead. It is now being reported by a person that was in the church that someone in a red cross vest was the one who said that the men would be coming straight to the church.



My grandfather was a miner, my father was a miner for over 35 years and now is a coal buyer for Power Companies, but most importantly, my husband is a Chief Electrician in the mines. He became a miner at the age of 18. He has 18 years experience in the mines. He goes underground everyday. He and my dad have more knowledge of mines than anyone I know. Like I said, my dad worked his way up in the mines from the bottom to the top.

This accident was one that is no one's fault. You can't predict what will happen when you enter a mines. Every miner knows this. If the fire boss calls out that the mine levels are safe, then you can bet that it was safe to enter the mines that day. If the explosion came from an adjacent shaft that had been mined out and sealed (which is being speculated about on the news) then it was probable that the gas was contained in that shaft and that a roof collapse in the sealed shaft led to the explosion. This would happen if 2 metal roof bolts had come together and caused a spark when the roof collapsed. I don't know, but that is just one possible theory.

I think that the media has once again blown things out of proportion and ignited a lot of the blame game for their own ratings.

I pray for the families of the miners who lost their lives. I pray for the families of every miner that goes into the mines to work everyday. I pray that everyone will quit trying to point fingers and remember that nothing can bring back the loved ones lost in that tragic accident. I pray that the healing will begin.

:Thumbs:

[Batpuff]

live news conference on tv right now

[sportwhiz]

CatDawg, thanks for all your information.

[KentuckyHillBilly5321]

Please excuse my ranting last night. For some reason--this one bothered me. The blame game wasn't appropriate at the time.

Also, it wasn't hard for me to respect Ben Hatfield. It takes a lot of courage to try to be honest, completely avoid any speculation, and still try to convey hope in a miserable situation.

There is something about the way that he handled things that makes it obvious to me that he tried to do the right thing--which is extremely uncommon for a CEO of any company.

PiratePal--thanks for filling us in with the details. I was was curious in regard to how the mining profession works.

[Batpuff]

yea from the news conference this evening what they think happened is that there was an foreman who just got only part of the information and called the church at the time they advised they found the miners and that they were using codes and stead of plain talk so that people did hear what they found. and at 12:30 when they found out that they only had 1 alive they decided to wait until they could confirm the other 11 were dead, According to Ben that when they found the 1st body they went to the church and told them that they found one body but didnt know who it was and it caused a big uproar and were very unhappy with him for not knowing the name, so that he wouldnt cause a uproar again they decided to wait until they were for 100%% sure. So they were straight forward with everything that went on. They also said that they would not release anything else until they past the information along to the family first, so there wasnt alot that they talked about other than the fact that there was miscommunications.

[-STAT-]

very heartbreaking news. I mean at midnight officials said they were alive and I was very excited and relieved that they were found. And then I woke up this morning and my dad said about 20 minutes after they said they were alive that 11 were dead and 1 was in critical condition, I didnt know what to think when he told me that. I mean they got there families so excited and then it took them almost 3 hrs. to actually tell them they there loved ones weren't alive and that gave there hopes up. That really upsets me and im very devestated and my heart really really goes out to those families and my prayers as well. GOD BLESS EVERYONE!

[BallaBaby]

[QUOTE="PHSFAN"]I heard that Ben Hatfield, the CEO of ICG, is a graduate of Belfry High and was over the company in Martin County a few years ago that had the disaster where the pond broke and flooded everything.QUOTE]

Ben and his Brother Dennis went to Inez or Warfield.
Someone said today that they found a note written by one of the coal miners, anyone heard about this?

[DTfan]

I heard something about it on the news that said that the note was written to reassure the friends and family that their last hours weren't spent in agony.

[BallaBaby]

You're right DT, I just looked it up.

[15thRegionCrazy]

I heard about them writing the notes too... they said they weren't in any pain.

[BallaBaby]

I'm glad they weren't in any pain.

[#_4]

me too