[vundy33]

Just a suggestion. After reading the first post in this thread, you should have been well aware of what the proceeding content in this thread was going to be about. All PF is doing is being obedient in doing what he is directed to do by his teachings from the Bible. You sure had the option of not participating in the discussion. He does not deserve to be bashed for caring about your soul's eternal well being. He is trying to be your very best friend, but you are not smart enough to figure out what he is doing. Why hate on someone who is showing you the ultimate love? You have been blessed tonight Vundy, but one of these days if you can ever get that giant chip off your shoulders that you walk around with, you just might figure that part out.

Please, please shut up with that crap Bob...you of all people know I don't hate many people, and especially no group of people, besides Westboro Baptist Church and UofL. It may work on TRV or Wildcat, but it doesn't work on me. I haven't bashed PF or Christianity once. Hating on him? Seriously?! I answered his damn question man. I told him exactly why non-Christians who don't like Christians don't like them. How is that hating?

You may believe he's showing me "ultimate love", but I don't. I highly doubt he or you give two shits about my soul's eternal well-being either. Neither of you like Muslims, it's clear. And because I do, you want to make me out as some Christian hater like you do everyone else that doesn't believe what you do.

[Bob Seger]

Man, you really don't know what you are talkin about, do you? I have not bashed Christians once, I have actually been careful to explain why a lot of non-Christians look at Christians in a negative light. That was the point or the thread, and I explained it, without grouping all Christians together. You can say I'm bashing Christians all you want, but anyone that knows me knows this isn't the case.

Islam DOES NOT teach killing. The Quran text that some interpret as that, just as the bible does. They are some of the nicest and most generous people I've ever met, and if you make friends with one of them or do something for him, he would die for you. That's a true Muslim. True Muslims don't hate because you don't believe as they do, just like true Christians don't.

Oh, but I very much do Vundy.

You certainly dont reflect that attitude is all I'll say. You are sometimes very adament about it.


The problem is not PF or what he is trying to do here, but it is a convienient excuse though.

[vundy33]

All Muslims are not terrorists but an alarmingly high percentage of them support terrorists - a much higher percentage than Christians or any other major religion. It is true that a minority of Muslims support terror groups, but it is not an insignificant minority. If anybody doubts it study this recent survey taken in Muslim countries by Pew. Do the math. The population of Egypt is about 82.5 million people. 39 percent of Egyptians support Hamas, 20 percent support Hezbollah, and 19 percent support both al Qaeda and the Taliban.

There is nothing peaceful about the religion of Islam. Trying to equate Islam and Christianity in terms of the recent terrorist activity on this planet is crazy. There are tens of millions of violent Islamists in this world. They dwarf the number of violent Christians, Hindus, Sikhs, and Buddhists combined.

That doesn't make them terrorist, that just means they probably don't like us. In most Arab countries, if you support anything even remotely American, you're usually an outcast. It doesn't make them terrorists though.

I prefer to go on actual experience, alot of it, with Muslims and Islam. But that is a good study. Just doesn't make them terrorists.

[Bob Seger]

Shut up with that crap Bob. It may work on TRV or Wildcat, but it doesn't work on me. I haven't bashed PF or Christianity once. Hating on him? Seriously?! I answered his damn question man. I told him exactly why non-Christians who don't like Christians don't like them. How is that hating?

You may believe he's showing me "ultimate love", but I don't. I highly doubt he or you give two shits about my soul's eternal well-being either. Neither of you like Muslims, it's clear. And because I do, you want to make me out as some Christian hater like you do everyone else that doesn't believe what you do.

First off, taint no crap here Bub.


If I hadn't grown up with his mommy and daddy and watched PF grow up, I might say there is a chance of that doubt, but I did, and I can counter with there is a genuine sincerity there.

I know it makes you mad, that you think that someone might be real and ligitimate. But it happens.

[vundy33]

Oh, but I very much do Vundy.

You certainly dont reflect that attitude is all I'll say. You are sometimes very adament about it.


The problem is not PF or what he is trying to do here, but it is a convienient excuse though.

I'm very adamant about those Christians that I explained, the ones that use the "God's love" excuse to put people down and tell them they're going to hell. Not all of them.

I never said PF is a problem or used it as an excuse...I don't care what he believes, I really don't. And again, anyone who knows me here knows that, especially you. He asked why, I explained it. That was literally what my first post was about.

[Bob Seger]

That doesn't make them terrorist, that just means they probably don't like us. In most Arab countries, if you support anything even remotely American, you're usually an outcast. It doesn't make them terrorists though.

I prefer to go on actual experience, alot of it, with Muslims and Islam. But that is a good study. Just doesn't make them terrorists.

The French dont like us either, but I dont see them planting bombs in parked cars on our crowded streets and the such.

You're not going to win this one Vundy. You have no basis for your arguement.

[vundy33]

First off, taint no crap here Bub.


If I hadn't grown up with his mommy and daddy and watched PF grow up, I might say there is a chance of that doubt, but I did, and I can counter with there is a genuine sincerity there.

I know it makes you mad, that you think that someone might be real and ligitimate. But it happens.

I'm glad that he's real and legitimate, but you're not getting it...it doesn't matter to me. You can only be so caring when preaching to someone on the web. That's great for PF and his family, but it's just not my thing.

I care about all people...I don't put an entire group of people in with those of them that do bad things. You do. So keep telling yourself that you occupy the moral highground if it makes you feel any better.

Keep trying Bob. You won't hurt my feelings or get me mad like you do others. It's the internet.

[Bob Seger]

I'm glad that he's real and legitimate, but you're not getting it...it doesn't matter to me. You can only be so caring when preaching to someone on the web. That's great for PF and his family, but it's just not my thing.

I care about all people...I don't put an entire group of people in with those of them that do bad things. You do. So keep telling yourself that you occupy the moral highground if it makes you feel any better.

Keep trying Bob. You won't hurt my feelings or get me mad like you do others. It's the internet.

lol...night Vundy, I've got to get up early in the morning and try to make a buck. There's a bunch of dead beat liberal Democrats out there I've got to feed and take care of tomorrow. You have a gooden!!

[vundy33]

The French dont like us either, but I dont see them planting bombs in parked cars on our crowded streets and the such.

You're not going to win this one Vundy. You have no basis for your arguement.

...

I just spent an hour explaining my argument. Only someone who hates Muslim's like you do wouldn't see that. Apologies if you don't hate Muslim's, but from what you've said, you've given me that impression.

The French may not like us either, but you don't see every Muslim who hates us shooting at us either. Also, we don't have 60,000 troops in France or do night raids on their houses.

Afghanistan was a just war, but it wasn't given the attention it deserved, and our government and people abandoned it when we needed them most. I do not blame Muslims for not liking us, but I would kill every single one of them who attacks us. Hating us and attacking us are two different things.

They are just like us. They go to school, love their mother, want to make something out of themselves, and fiercely defend their country and religions. The difference is beliefs and culture, that's it. The culture they grow up in, really an eye for an eye, is the problem, not their religion. You'd be surprised at the number of Chechen non-Muslims we killed and captured in Afghanistan in 2001 and 2002.

[vundy33]

lol...night Vundy, I've got to get up early in the morning and try to make a buck. There's a bunch of dead beat liberals out there I've got to feed and take care of tomorrow. You have a gooden!!

I lol'd at the bold sentence, hahahah. That was good.

And goodnight, see you tomorrow. My nights are kind of screwed up because I've been on the road alot for work, I'll end up being up until 04 or 05am once again, ugh.

[Hoot Gibson]

That doesn't make them terrorist, that just means they probably don't like us. In most Arab countries, if you support anything even remotely American, you're usually an outcast. It doesn't make them terrorists though.

I prefer to go on actual experience, alot of it, with Muslims and Islam. But that is a good study. Just doesn't make them terrorists.

The survey shows Islam to be a much less tolerant religion than most other major religions in the world. That doesn't mean that there are not millions of very tolerant Muslims in the world but in general Muslims are much more likely to support a theocratic government that tightly regulates or prohibits the practice of other religions.

I know that there are many good, moderate Muslims in Iran because I went to school with many of them. I also went to school with some Iranian fanatics who supported the bloody revolution in Iran and the taking of American hostages. I have never met an intolerant Hindu or Jew yet, but I am sure that they do exist, albeit in smaller numbers.

Terrorists cannot thrive without a support network. The surveys show that there are many Muslims who are sympathetic to terrorists, just as there were many Irish supporters of the IRA who did not engage in terrorism directly.

[vundy33]

The survey shows Islam to be a much less tolerant religion than most other major religions in the world. That doesn't mean that there are not millions of very tolerant Muslims in the world but in general Muslims are much more likely to support a theocratic government that tightly regulates or prohibits the practice of other religions.

I know that there are many good, moderate Muslims in Iran because I went to school with many of them. I also went to school with some Iranian fanatics who supported the bloody revolution in Iran and the taking of American hostages. I have never met an intolerant Hindu or Jew yet, but I am sure that they do exist, albeit in smaller numbers.

Terrorists cannot thrive without a support network. The surveys show that there are many Muslims who are sympathetic to terrorists, just as there were many Irish supporters of the IRA who did not engage in terrorism directly.

Still though, it doesn't make them terrorists themselves, lol.

[Hoot Gibson]

Still though, it doesn't make them terrorists themselves, lol.

If you are feeding, financing, or harboring terrorists, then you are a terrorist.

[judgementday]

I have to agree with what Vundy stated in that Christians should just let others live. It reminds me of a skit that Jim Gaffigan said during one of his comedy shows..."a co-worker said to me, I would like to talk to you about Jesus.....Yeah, I'd rather you not".

As I stated in an earlier post, IMO the judgemental Christians that Vundy has eluded to are the reason people frown upon the Christian religion. Let me give an example of this....

For 3 years a youth and myself have met at the Hooters in Richmond right before he goes off to College. I think highly of him and want him to succeed. In trying to make arrangements for this year, I responded to a Facebook post of his mentioning Hooters. The first reponse I recieved was not from him but the Youth Minister at his church. He stated "you can find other places that serve food instead of going to a place full of crap". I responded that I enjoyed going there and mentioned my tradition with the youth. He proceded to say how deviant going to Hooters was, that only sinful people go there, etc.... Now granted, he has never been to Hooters before so he has no clue how that place operates.

Beyond that, why does he even care? He is not going and I didn't ask him to go. Actually, I don't even know him.

You know, I was a Christian once, not anymore though, if that means I won't be able to walk on golden streets, thats ok, that is MY choice. Remember, as stated, God gave us all the freedom to choose so how about letting people do that and worry about yourself.

I have no problem with someone explaining their religous beliefs only as long as someone has asked to know more about it.

In regards to the Muslim faith, there are extremists in that religion just as there are extremists that claim the Christian faith.

I mean no offense to anyone in this thread and I apologize if I at all sounded out of line. Just wanted to share my thoughts.

[WideRight05]

I've already explained why you all are disliked by a major portion of people! It's a combination of not caring about anyone that doesn't believe as you do, and then constantly condemning and talking down to them...plus not getting that everyone doesn't believe what you do, and may not want to see Christian stuff everywhere they look. It's not all Christians, but those turn off everyone else. Also, it's just how the world is...not everyone's going to think the same as you. It's part of the life experience.

Every religion is taking a hit right now, it's just how the world is at the moment. But you all sure as heck aren't the only "victims" out there for sticking to what you believe.

I have read through your explanations and I do agree with some of it - because there are some nutcases out there that shove hell down people's throats. I don't deny that, and I'm sure you probably remember reading about how those things nearly destroyed my perception of Christianity. It sure doesn't help us that the media will consistently portray Christians as the fanatical, fire-brimstone-shove-it-down-your-throat type group. Although there are some crazies like that, they make up a small minority.

Look at people like LWC on this board. Compassionate, caring about others, THAT is how it's done. As Montell Jordan once said, "this is how we do it." Take Chick Fila for example. With all of the homosexual groups protesting their views, they still offered them free food when they came to protest at their restaurant.

People have what I like to call "defense barriers" with communication. Once those barriers are up, there is absolutely no chance you have of reaching out to them and encouraging them to become involved with their church and accepting Jesus. Those barriers are usually activated by some form of shoving fire and brimstone down their throats. 80% of Christians would have a similar pattern of thinking on this, but unfortunately it's the others that have the beatdown philosophy that are put at the front of the line by the media.

[Granny Bear]

I have read through your explanations and I do agree with some of it - because there are some nutcases out there that shove hell down people's throats. I don't deny that, and I'm sure you probably remember reading about how those things nearly destroyed my perception of Christianity. It sure doesn't help us that the media will consistently portray Christians as the fanatical, fire-brimstone-shove-it-down-your-throat type group. Although there are some crazies like that, they make up a small minority.

Look at people like LWC on this board. Compassionate, caring about others, THAT is how it's done. As Montell Jordan once said, "this is how we do it." Take Chick Fila for example. With all of the homosexual groups protesting their views, they still offered them free food when they came to protest at their restaurant.People have what I like to call "defense barriers" with communication. Once those barriers are up, there is absolutely no chance you have of reaching out to them and encouraging them to become involved with their church and accepting Jesus. Those barriers are usually activated by some form of shoving fire and brimstone down their throats. 80% of Christians would have a similar pattern of thinking on this, but unfortunately it's the others that have the beatdown philosophy that are put at the front of the line by the media.

Bolded: BRAVO!!

First and foremost: I profess to be a Christian. I believe in God, and I believe in his son Jesus. I believe Jesus died for ME.

I am; however, of the opinion that in order to be able to understand the degree of damage that can be done by Christians, in the name of Christianity, one must actually be the object of the persecution. This may explain how defensive folks can get, if not having experienced being this target.

I do understand it, unfortunately.

However unintentional it may be, lots of times the judgemental tones coming from someone or even the lack of support from a church family, can do harm that is difficult to imagine.

This is why I love LWC so much! I don't agree with everything he posts or all his points of view. I do; however, appreciate his generosity and his offers of prayers and support. I think he does so much more than he even knows.

[Pulp Fiction]

These scriptures are from The Bible (KJV). And yes, I realize some people don't believe what The Bible says or what it stands for. But read this and tell me you don't agree. Oh and by the way... "Perilous" means dangerous/hazardous.

2 Timothy 3:1-7

1: This know also, that in the last days Perilous times shall come.

2: For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

3: Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

4: Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

5: Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

6: For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

7: Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

[RunItUpTheGut]

These scriptures are from The Bible (KJV). And yes, I realize some people don't believe what The Bible says or what it stands for. But read this and tell me you don't agree. Oh and by the way... "Perilous" means dangerous/hazardous.

2 Timothy 3:1-7

1: This know also, that in the last days Perilous times shall come.

2: For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

3: Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

4: Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

5: Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

6: For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

7: Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

This would free up a lot of time for stardust nicker:

[Pulp Fiction]

Both of my Great Grandfathers on my Mother's side were Elders in the United Baptist Church.

My Mom's Dad (my Grandfather) was an Elder in the United Baptist church.

My Dad's Dad (my Grandfather) is a Deacon in the Freewill Baptist Church.

My Dad, Mom, Uncle, Aunt started a gospel singing group around 1994-1995. Due to job demands, my aunt and uncle had to move to Florida a few years ago. But the group still sings pretty regularly. And trust me, cause up until about 2003 or so, I was never allowed to miss a service when they went... No matter what was going on. And still today, some of the members have changed, but they still sing about 100 times a year. I've been all over the Southeastern part of the United States with them.

I've been to more churches/denominations than I can remember... Heard more gospel songs than the Gaither Homecoming.... Heard more preachers preach than I can count.... And seen some true miracles happen right in front of me. So you can say I was born and rasied in a church house.



But one thing I can honestly say... as far as my memory goes back, I have never heard a singer/preacher say they hate homosexuals. I've heard singers/preachers say they hate the Act of Homosexuality; But I've never heard any preacher/singer say they hate a homosexual person.

I've seen people that once lived a homosexual lifestyle before be saved, and remain saved. It happens all the time. And usually the first thing after a person gets saved that was once a homosexual says.... "Nobody ever told me being gay was wrong." Or something to the effect.

[Pulp Fiction]

I have a 2nd cousin (my grandfather and his dad are brothers) that is gay. He lives in Califorina, he was married to another man for a about 7-8 years, and in 2010, the other man passed away. Well, he's been gay since before I was born, and I'm close to 30.

When my 2nd cousin makes the trip in for family reunions, funerals or other family functions, we don't shun him. We don't get in his face and tell him he's living wrong and gonna go to straight to hell. We tell him we love him... We tell him that Jesus loves him. Most of my family is saved and goes to church. He know's he's gonna hear about Jesus when he comes in to visit with us. He know's we're gonna say Grace over the food before we eat. He know's he's gonna be invited to church. Hopefully he will come to be saved before it's too late.

Wonderful things happen when Jesus passes by.

[Bob Seger]

are you being serious? You don't remember the rash of "revenge killings" that went on muslims in nyc and all over the country after 9/11? What about the killings of those sikh's in wisconsin because some dumbass had them mistaken for muslims?

Don't lecture me about 9/11, i know about that. But islam didn't commit that act...a few extreme men did. That's it. It's just like the people we're fighting in afghan. They're either extreme, doing it for money, or just resent that we're in there country. It's as simple as that.

"other than they just like to kill people"? Seriously man? So all muslims like to kill people? You know a lot about a lot, but you don't know shit about this.

Sure looks like every muslim in the entire middle east wants to kill us to me.