[OrangenowBlue]

I smoked a big joint (that's right, a big joint) or two in the late seventies man. And I still stand by my statement. We all know as much, if not more, about pot as you know about this case. And I know very little about pot.

He has got you there TRV. He hails from the what was known as "the Marijuana capital of the world" at one time. LOL. I couldn't resist.

[Hoot Gibson]

I do not think a jury will convict him because there is enough reasonable doubt. You will have old people who think that Marijuana induces volatile behavior, which is a lie. There is so much gray area about who instigated the confrontation and that the only witness is the alleged "perp". The sad thing is that most of the posters on here want him to get off just to get back at what they perceive as the "liberal media" and activists in black neighborhoods. If this would have happened to the son of any poster on here, they would have been raising hell, and yelling for justice. Like his parents have.

Who has said that they want Zimmerman to "get off?" What I have said is that given the facts that are currently known, there is no way that Zimmerman should be convicted of murder. Second degree murder should never have been charged and the charge was "murder" instead of manslaughter because of political considerations, IMO.

I am not a legal expert but I can certainly see Zimmerman getting convicted of manslaughter. Whether he is or not depends on the effect of Florida's "Stand your ground" law on this case. I think that a jury could very well find him guilty of negligent homicide because of his decision to follow Martin and leave his vehicle.

The media has behaved shamefully in their coverage of this case and people like Obama, Sharpton, and Jackson have done their best to inject race into a place where it did not belong - but that is a separate issue from whether Zimmerman should be held criminally responsible for Martin's death. Considering the prosecution of a hates crime law against Zimmerman, based on the facts now known, seems like a real witch hunt.

[SKINNYPIG]

He has got you there TRV. He hails from the what was known as "the Marijuana capital of the world" at one time. LOL. I couldn't resist.

You get zero argument from me on this one ONB.:Thumbs:

[TheRealVille]

He has got you there TRV. He hails from the what was known as "the Marijuana capital of the world" at one time. LOL. I couldn't resist.

I smoke pot on a regular basis, and I can tell him I know what the effects are. Pot is a pacifier, and drinking makes you aggressive. That's fact.

[SKINNYPIG]

I smoke pot on a regular basis, and I can tell him I know what the effects are. Pt is a pacifier, and drinking makes you aggressive. That's fact.

Yeah, and we see how it affects your political posts. Just kidding.

[TheRealVille]

Yeah, and we see how it affects your political posts. Just kidding.

But, I'll bet you can tell the difference in when I'm smoking or drinking. :biggrin:

[SKINNYPIG]

But, I'll bet you can tell the difference in when I'm smoking or drinking. :biggrin:

Yep. And when doing niether, you show hints of conservatism. You know, when you mind is at it's clearest.

[TheRealThing]

I call bullshit. What do outlaw bikers have to do with this case? Pot is a pacifer, and I know this for a fact.

I rode in a club and I guarantee you some of the guys I rode with are harder to clean after than you, I know the routine front and back. I also lived through the 60's, and can speak from first hand knowledge. Like I said, marijuana does not induce violent behavior but, don't try to tell me a man can't get riled up enough to throw his fists just because he's had a joint or two. I know better. That doesn't mean I think Trayvon was high. I do think he may have been involved in things that could have made him harder than your average 17 year old.

[judgementday]

To refer to an earlier post...

If a uniformed officer approaches me as I am walking down a city street, then I would respectfully answer any questions. Someone dressed in civilian clothes, will not get the same respect if they ask me what I am doing in their neighborhood.

In the Martin case, he was on the phone with his girlfriend when he noticed Zimmerman was following him. In reading it, Martin indicated to his girlfriend that he was being followed, she encouraged him to run, he instead said he would just walk fast. Martin then addresses Zimmerman by asking him why he was following him, Zimmerman responds by asking why he was in his neighborhood, phone call ended abruptly.

Now, being in Martin's footsteps I would have inquired as to why someone was following me as well. Zimmerman's response should have been "I am head of the neighborhood watch around here, we have had a number of break ins, just taking care of my responsibilities"...Instead he aggresively asked him why he was there.

Zimmerman was the head of the neighborhood WATCH not neighborhood FOLLOW.

I fully agree that Zimmerman had a right to defend himself and from looking at the pictures of his physical damage is only option may have been to use deadly force.

However, he initiated the contact and used poor judgement....he needs to be convicted something.

[Truth]

To refer to an earlier post...

If a uniformed officer approaches me as I am walking down a city street, then I would respectfully answer any questions. Someone dressed in civilian clothes, will not get the same respect if they ask me what I am doing in their neighborhood.

In the Martin case, he was on the phone with his girlfriend when he noticed Zimmerman was following him. In reading it, Martin indicated to his girlfriend that he was being followed, she encouraged him to run, he instead said he would just walk fast. Martin then addresses Zimmerman by asking him why he was following him, Zimmerman responds by asking why he was in his neighborhood, phone call ended abruptly.

Now, being in Martin's footsteps I would have inquired as to why someone was following me as well. Zimmerman's response should have been "I am head of the neighborhood watch around here, we have had a number of break ins, just taking care of my responsibilities"...Instead he aggresively asked him why he was there.

Zimmerman was the head of the neighborhood WATCH not neighborhood FOLLOW.

I fully agree that Zimmerman had a right to defend himself and from looking at the pictures of his physical damage is only option may have been to use deadly force.

However, he initiated the contact and used poor judgement....he needs to be convicted something.

Can we then assume that you would agree that all the demonstrators in Chicago who were breaking the law by their mere illegal gathering should all be "convicted of something"? After all, they initiated the problem when they could have remained at their homes, in their homeless shelters, or under their respective bridges.

[TheRealVille]

I rode in a club and I guarantee you some of the guys I rode with are harder to clean after than you, I know the routine front and back. I also lived through the 60's, and can speak from first hand knowledge. Like I said, marijuana does not induce violent behavior but, don't try to tell me a man can't get riled up enough to throw his fists just because he's had a joint or two. I know better. That doesn't mean I think Trayvon was high. I do think he may have been involved in things that could have made him harder than your average 17 year old.

I rode with a very prominent club, but I'd say you are right. There is always someone badder out there. The point was, you all keep bringing up pot, and it has no bearing on the fighting part of the discussion.

[TheRealVille]

I rode in a club and I guarantee you some of the guys I rode with are harder to clean after than you, I know the routine front and back. I also lived through the 60's, and can speak from first hand knowledge. Like I said, marijuana does not induce violent behavior but, don't try to tell me a man can't get riled up enough to throw his fists just because he's had a joint or two. I know better. That doesn't mean I think Trayvon was high. I do think he may have been involved in things that could have made him harder than your average 17 year old.

Riding in a Honda, "you meet the nicest people on a Honda" club don't count. :biggrin: Tell us about your bike. I know most of the clubs in these parts, tell us about your club.

[TheRealThing]

1973 AMF Sportster, 1000cc. It was a kicker. Black with orange hashes, hydraulic front disc brake and rear drum. At the time it was as big as the BX had to offer. There was a 1970 fat boy in the crowd but at the time I didn't feel embarrased. We rode in Europe, so there was some sissy boy triumphs and BSA's. Quite a few GI's stayed behind when they got out of the service and started a Ghost Rider chapter in Germany. It was macho enough for me, I hung out with some of the Conquistador's down in Huston when I got back. A lot of them were teamsters. I was way over my head with those guys. I guess you're gonna tell me you're a pagan or something.

[TheRealThing]

I rode with a very prominent club, but I'd say you are right. There is always someone badder out there. The point was, you all keep bringing up pot, and it has no bearing on the fighting part of the discussion.

The conversation with RUTG and Granny was about your statement that pot smoking makes some kind of teddy bear out of people. I'm just saying, I've seen fights, sometimes several at once, and I know for a fact some of the guys had been smoking dope that night. I agree for the most part you don't see that a lot, but you have to factor in what kind of people you're dealing with too.

[RunItUpTheGut]

^
What i was trying to get across is we all know smoking weed IMPAIRS your judgement.
Isnt it safe to say that unless these people were monsters sober, then the pot could have "enticed" them to do something they wouldnt normally do.

[TheRealVille]

1973 AMF Sportster, 1000cc. It was a kicker. Black with orange hashes, hydraulic front disc brake and rear drum. At the time it was as big as the BX had to offer. There was a 1970 fat boy in the crowd but at the time I didn't feel embarrased. We rode in Europe, so there was some sissy boy triumphs and BSA's. Quite a few GI's stayed behind when they got out of the service and started a Ghost Rider chapter in Germany. It was macho enough for me, I hung out with some of the Conquistador's down in Huston when I got back. A lot of them were teamsters. I was way over my head with those guys. I guess you're gonna tell me you're a pagan or something.

No. I said I rode with a club at one point, not join. I'm a loner, not a joiner. I didn't see the need.

[Granny Bear]

^
What i was trying to get across is we all know smoking weed IMPAIRS your judgement.
Isnt it safe to say that unless these people were monsters sober, then the pot could have "enticed" them to do something they wouldnt normally do.

Right!!
The pot is a minor distraction from the real subject. I thought the only significance it brings is indicating that Martin had either a direct or indirect relationship with a dealer.

You can't buy that in a drive-through....at least not in Florida. We're not talking about Harlan County, you know!!
:biggrin:

[judgementday]

Can we then assume that you would agree that all the demonstrators in Chicago who were breaking the law by their mere illegal gathering should all be "convicted of something"? After all, they initiated the problem when they could have remained at their homes, in their homeless shelters, or under their respective bridges.

Makes zero sense to what I was saying.

[Truth]

Makes zero sense to what I was saying.

You claim that Zimmerman "initiated" the contact. Since we don't know for sure who "attacked" whom yet, you must be saying that Zimmerman "initiated" the contact by getting out of his car and approaching Martin and, therefore, should be "convicted of something". Following that logic, can't we say that if the Chicago demonstrators had stayed in their homeless shelters or under their bridges, or at the unemployment office, or whatever and had not provoked the confrontation with the police, there would have been no "contact"? Thus, the demonstrators initiated the "contact" and should all be convicted of something.

And, isn't it interesting that, now that a few facts are coming out and the spin of the liberal media and some of those strange looking Democrat congresswomen is being contradicted, a current Rasmussen poll shows that 40% believe Zimmerman acted in self-defense and 24% still believe it was murder. Although polls won't deliver the verdict, let's hope that political correctness doesn't do so either.

[TheRealVille]

1973 AMF Sportster, 1000cc. It was a kicker. Black with orange hashes, hydraulic front disc brake and rear drum. At the time it was as big as the BX had to offer. There was a 1970 fat boy in the crowd but at the time I didn't feel embarrased. We rode in Europe, so there was some sissy boy triumphs and BSA's. Quite a few GI's stayed behind when they got out of the service and started a Ghost Rider chapter in Germany. It was macho enough for me, I hung out with some of the Conquistador's down in Huston when I got back. A lot of them were teamsters. I was way over my head with those guys. I guess you're gonna tell me you're a pagan or something.

On this we definitely agree. I was way over my head as well.

[Panther Thunder]

Whatever happened to the cavemaster?

Ya know, this guy.

[Bob Seger]

Whatever happened to the cavemaster?

Ya know, this guy.

He made a breif comeback as HOGWALLOP a couple of months ago only to disappear again. Actually it wasn't a comeback, it was his 2nd account that he would post on.

[Hoot Gibson]

This is why cases should be tried in courts of law and not in the media. Peer pressure and the threat of mob violence has a way of changing people's memories. Eyewitness accounts are notoriously unreliable to begin with, but when you add a highly stressed prosecutor under intense media pressure to obtain a conviction, the chances of anybody obtaining justice shrink.

[INDENT]

[COLOR="Blue"]Several George Zimmerman witnesses change their accounts

Evidence released last week in the second-degree-murder case against George Zimmerman shows four key witnesses made major changes in what they say they saw and heard the night he fatally shot 17-year-old Trayvon Martin in Sanford.

Three changed their stories in ways that may damage Zimmerman. A fourth abandoned her initial story, that she saw one person chasing another. Now, she says, she saw a single figure running.

They were reinterviewed in mid-March, after Sanford police handed the case off to State Attorney Norm Wolfinger. The case changed hands again when Gov. Rick Scott passed it on to a special prosecutor. Zimmerman was arrested April 11 on a charge of second-degree murder.

Read the rest of the story
[/COLOR]

[/INDENT]

[judgementday]

You claim that Zimmerman "initiated" the contact. Since we don't know for sure who "attacked" whom yet, you must be saying that Zimmerman "initiated" the contact by getting out of his car and approaching Martin and, therefore, should be "convicted of something". Following that logic, can't we say that if the Chicago demonstrators had stayed in their homeless shelters or under their bridges, or at the unemployment office, or whatever and had not provoked the confrontation with the police, there would have been no "contact"? Thus, the demonstrators initiated the "contact" and should all be convicted of something.

And, isn't it interesting that, now that a few facts are coming out and the spin of the liberal media and some of those strange looking Democrat congresswomen is being contradicted, a current Rasmussen poll shows that 40% believe Zimmerman acted in self-defense and 24% still believe it was murder. Although polls won't deliver the verdict, let's hope that political correctness doesn't do so either.

He in someway needs to be held accountable for his actions as he was the instigator to the whole situation by getting out of his car and approaching Martin. With that being said, even though he instigated the events maybe he could have handled it differently and difused the situation but I wasn't there so I do not know. I do not even know if what his girlfriend was saying is true. However, IMO, he was the instigator.

With that being said, yes, if the chicago demostrators cannot be civil, then they should have stayed home. Those who project aggressive behavior especially geared towards law enforcement should be dealt with.

[TheRealVille]

1973 AMF Sportster, 1000cc. It was a kicker. Black with orange hashes, hydraulic front disc brake and rear drum. At the time it was as big as the BX had to offer. There was a 1970 fat boy in the crowd but at the time I didn't feel embarrased. We rode in Europe, so there was some sissy boy triumphs and BSA's. Quite a few GI's stayed behind when they got out of the service and started a Ghost Rider chapter in Germany. It was macho enough for me, I hung out with some of the Conquistador's down in Huston when I got back. A lot of them were teamsters. I was way over my head with those guys. I guess you're gonna tell me you're a pagan or something.

The sportster was the biggest Harley in 73? 2nd bold: I didn't think Harley made the Fat Boy until 1990? No need to feel embarrassed, a lot of men ride little bikes.

[TheRealThing]

On this we definitely agree. I was way over my head as well.

That might be the most sensible post I've seen you put up. Some of the bikers I met were nothing short of scary. They're hard to get away from once they get to know you too, kind of like jumping off a train, the longer you wait the more it's going to hurt.

[TheRealThing]

The sportster was the biggest Harley in 73? 2nd bold: I didn't think Harley made the Fat Boy until 1990? No need to feel embarrassed, a lot of men ride little bikes.

Gee thanks. Now that you mention it he might have had a FX. Sportsters were considered a big bike for back then, but definitely not the biggest they made in 73. The BX just means Base Exchange

[TheRealVille]

Gee thanks. Now that you mention it he might have had a FX. Sportsters were considered a big bike for back then, but definitely not the biggest they made in 73. The BX just means Base Exchange

Nothing intended. If I had room, I would have a Sportster in the mix.

[TheRealThing]

Nothing intended. If I had room, I would have a Sportster in the mix.

No problem, at least it was a Harley. Honestly, it handled really well. I didn't like to lead but I could keep up with the kamkazi's on BMWs.

[TheRealVille]

I quoted from the conservative mothership so some couldn't claim media bias from liberal media. If he is lying to the judge about his finances, who's to say he isn't lying about other facts.

The credibility of Trayvon Martin's shooter could be an issue at trial after a judge said that George Zimmerman and his wife lied to the court about their finances to obtain a bond, legal experts say.
That's because the case hinges on jurors believing his account of what happened the night the 19-year-old was killed.
The questioning of Zimmerman's truthfulness by the judge on Friday could undermine the defendant's credibility if it is brought up at trial. It also may complicate how his defense presents him as a witness, said Orlando-area attorney Randy McCLean, who is a former prosecutor.
"The other key witness, unfortunately is deceased," McClean said. "Basically, Zimmerman is going to be asking the jury to believe his version of the facts ... As the case stands now, his credibility is absolutely critical to the case."
Zimmerman has pleaded not guilty to second-degree murder for the February shooting. The neighborhood watch volunteer says he shot Martin in self-defense because the unarmed 17-year-old was beating him up after confronting Zimmerman about following him in a gated community outside Orlando.
Witness accounts of the rainy night Martin was shot are spotty. There is no video of the fight, though photos prosecutors have released showed Zimmerman with wounds to his face and the back of his head.
Zimmerman's credibility with the judge would be important if O'Mara tries to get a judge without the jury to dismiss the charges based on the law, said Orlando defense attorney David Hill.
"If he was in on something that was not truthfully revealed to the judge, when there is a `stand your ground' hearing, of course you're going to second-guess him," Hill said.
Both McClean and Hill said O'Mara would be able to challenge the admissibility of the bond revocation at trial by questioning its relevance.
Zimmerman was arrested 44 days after the killing, and during a bond hearing in April, his wife, Shellie, testified that the couple had limited funds available. The hearing also was notable because Zimmerman took the stand and apologized to Martin's parents.
Prosecutors pointed out in their motion that Zimmerman had $135,000 available then. It had been raised from donations through a website he set up and they suggested more has been collected since and deposited in a bank account.
Shellie Zimmerman was asked about the website at the hearing, but she said she didn't know how much money had been raised. Circuit Judge Kenneth Lester set bail at $150,000. The 28-year-old was freed a few days later after posting $15,000 in cash -- which is typical -- and has since been in hiding.
Prosecutor Bernie De la Rionda complained Friday, "This court was led to believe they didn't have a single penny. It was misleading and I don't know what words to use other than it was a blatant lie." The judge agreed and ordered Zimmerman returned to jail by Sunday afternoon.
"Does your client get to sit there like a potted plant and lead the court down the primrose path? That's the issue," Lester said. "He can't sit back and obtain the benefit of a lower bond based upon those material falsehoods."
The defense countered that Zimmerman and his wife never used the money for anything, which indicated "there was no deceit." His attorney, Mark O'Mara, said it wouldn't be a problem to bring Zimmerman back into custody by the deadline.
The judge said he would schedule a hearing after Zimmerman is back in custody so he could explain himself.
Police in Sanford did not immediately arrest Zimmerman, citing Florida's "stand your ground" law that gives wide latitude to use deadly force rather than retreat in a fight if people believe they are in danger of being killed or seriously injured.
Benjamin Crump, an attorney for Trayvon Martin's parents, Tracy Martin and Sybrina Fulton, said his clients have always said Zimmerman should remain in jail until trial, which O'Mara said he believed wouldn't be until next year.
Crump was asked if he thought that if Zimmerman would be willing to lie about his finances that he would be willing to lie about what happen the night Martin was killed.
"We fully expect that the special prosecutor will make George Zimmerman's credibility be front and center in this entire case," Crump said. "And whatever dishonesty that comes forth by George Zimmerman that they can prove, you can best believe it will become the issue of this case."
The revocation of Zimmerman's bond also puts pressure on O'Mara to not delay the trial, McClean said.
"When your client is out on bond, the pressure is much lighter to rush to trial ... because your client is sitting at home," he said. "When your client is sitting at the Seminole County Jail, your client is going to want this resolved."

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/06/02/zim...644204143/