[TheRealVille]

I do though. I know what it looks like and I know it certainly isn't just AEP that used asbestos in insulation and refractories. Ashland Oil did it, car manufacturers did it, brake shoe manufacturers did it, naval yards did it, all the rail roads, heck, it was and is everywhere. In shingles, floor tile, ceiling tile, plaster, wall and ceiling insulation, boiler and heater door gaskets, pot holders, heat shields, domestic heater pans and stove pans. Construction workers were exposed to asbestos before plants and factories even opened up during the construction phase. Carpenters have been exposed to asbestos while sawing transite.

It's definitely a problem, but to single out one industrial concern such as the Big Sandy Plant, as if they're more culpable than say Ashland Oil isn't quite cricket, if you ask me. It's use was banned sometime in the 70's and those who suffered and will suffer as a result of asbestos exposure is a national tradgedy. Rigid safety precautions have been adopted by OSHA, to protect today's working men and women. Billions have been spent voluntarily by industry for the abatement of asbestos materials in the workplace.

Maybe Do-double-gg or you can give us an honest assessment of how much asbestos laiden materials still remains in the Big Sandy Plant. The fighting "I", Enterprise, Hornet, Missouri and other ship we used to win WWII had asbestos in their innards, so did brake shoes for my '64 chevy. Folks just didn't know back then.

They all used it, but it is illegal in keeping it exposed. Both Big Sandy and Marathon have exposed asbestos, and I can walk you to just about all of it. Exposed asbestos is illegal. They are flagrant in their breaking of this law. OSHA looks the other way, because I have had them in both plants. Like I said, I can walk you to a lot exposed of asbestos, in BS, and AO. They are breaking the law.

[TheRealThing]

Yours Hoot, is the typical thinking of most conservatives. You don't give a damn about the safety of the people being exposed to deadly stuff, you just think about the corporate end of things. Until your dad dies of direct things happening inside of Big Sandy, it would be best for you to lay down.

Unbelievable, how do you know? The world isn't quite the one you'd like to 'Imagine'. (I can't believe you owned up to that one as many times as I've used it to describe la-la liberals) Making people pay, so to speak, is half of what has caused rising medical costs. Can you say Tort Reform? ObamaCare doesn't even start to address the real price driver of insurance rates and medical care rates.

[TheRealThing]

They all used it, but it is illegal in keeping it exposed. Both Big Sandy and Marathon have exposed asbestos, and I can walk you to just about all of it. Exposed asbestos is illegal. They are flagrant in their breaking of this law.

I know they had exposed asbestos in the refinery the last time I was in there. Especially in #1. How much is left?

[TheRealVille]

I know they had exposed asbestos in the refinery the last time I was in there. Especially in #1. How much is left?

It's exposed in tons of places in #1. And, it's exposed in most area of Big Sandy. That's flagrant, and illegal TRT, and it killed my dad, and several others in just the last few years. They do very little removal and covering up in either plant.

[TheRealThing]

It's exposed in tons of places in #1. And, it's exposed in most area of Big Sandy. That's flagrant, and illegal TRT, and it killed my dad, and several others in just the last few years. They do very little removal and covering up in either plant.

Well, this will shock you. That is totally unacceptable, and you and I are on the same side of this issue. Hopefully, I will not have to face a similar fate fighting for my life as a result of exposure to asbestos. Just a suggestion, how would you feel about backing the mad dog EPA off of industry, and just let OSHA come in and oversee the abatement of these materials in lieu of all these environmental fines that they pocket? I know if I had anything to do with it I'd rather see the money spent on that.

[TheRealVille]

.....

[TheRealThing]

My dad died, and Big Sandy should have paid. They kept him exposed, flagrantly.

Not what I was saying. There are billions set aside for settlement of these suits. Totally different than Tort Reform for frivalrous and speculative claims.

[TheRealVille]

Well, this will shock you. That is totally unacceptable, and you and I are on the same side of this issue. Hopefully, I will not have to face a similar fate fighting for my life as a result of exposure to asbestos. Just a suggestion, how would you feel about backing the mad dog EPA off of industry, and just let OSHA come in and oversee the abatement of these materials in lieu of all these environmental fines that they pocket? I know if I had anything to do with it I'd rather see the money spent on that.

But, I am not for letting everything go into the air. They need to clean up their "stacks". BS is one of the dirtiest burning plants in this area, right behind Phillip Sporn, and also cover the asbestos. BS is a very profitable AEP plant, they can afford to be safe, and burn clean. BTW, I have called OSHA to both plants while I was there, and they just look around, and leave. You know as well as me, big business wins most every time.

[TheRealThing]

But, I am not for letting everything go into the air. They need to clean up their "stacks". BS is one of the dirtiest burning plants in this area, right behind Phillip Sporn, and also cover the asbestos. BS is a very profitable AEP plant, they can afford to be safe, and burn clean. BTW, I have called OSHA to both plants while I was there, and they just look around, and leave. You know as well as me, big business wins most every time.

Granted, but there are acceptable time frames to adopt in this effort to keep rates from, dare I say it? Skyrocketing. You gotta admit, AEP is between the devil (Obama) and the deep blue sea here. Customers are as important as the environment is. Some folks really can't afford to pay much more for their electricity. If we force all the clean air standards too soon, we do as much harm to the folks as we do the environment. I actually do think the environment is worth preserving, I don't buy the global warming deal, but I do buy the idea that rivers and streams and to some degree air standards are completely legitimate. Same thing with all fossil fuels. We need gasoline for everything that we call America, from driving to work to bass fishing. I can see it now, the tournament blast off---with full jib, LOL.

[TheRealThing]

But, I am not for letting everything go into the air. They need to clean up their "stacks". BS is one of the dirtiest burning plants in this area, right behind Phillip Sporn, and also cover the asbestos. BS is a very profitable AEP plant, they can afford to be safe, and burn clean. BTW, I have called OSHA to both plants while I was there, and they just look around, and leave. You know as well as me, big business wins most every time.

No, I totally believe you. But you gotta know that OSHA, is just an underling of the EPA. I'm telling you, the EPA has become like the Smith program in the Matrix. It's all powerful and out of control. They have lost all sense of themselves and what harm they do with these regulations and controls. All this should be a transition. It should be hurried along only to the extent that renewables can catch up (if that's even possible) and the population does not suffer for environmentalist idealism. The country has to survive as the first priority. Nobody in this day will just wreak havoc on the environment to the extent that we need a green gestapo out there basically controlling the US economy for the environment's sake.

[Stardust]

[Image: http://www.frugal-cafe.com/public_html/f...orists.jpg]

[TheRealThing]

[Image: http://www.frugal-cafe.com/public_html/f...orists.jpg]

The faces of those who put party ahead of country, ethics, truth, patriotism and personal integrity.

[Do-double-gg]

I do though. I know what it looks like and I know it certainly isn't just AEP that used asbestos in insulation and refractories. Ashland Oil did it, car manufacturers did it, brake shoe manufacturers did it, naval yards did it, all the rail roads, heck, it was and is everywhere. In shingles, floor tile, ceiling tile, plaster, wall and ceiling insulation, boiler and heater door gaskets, pot holders, heat shields, domestic heater pans and stove pans. Construction workers were exposed to asbestos before plants and factories even opened up during the construction phase. Carpenters have been exposed to asbestos while sawing transite.

It's definitely a problem, but to single out one industrial concern such as the Big Sandy Plant, as if they're more culpable than say Ashland Oil isn't quite cricket, if you ask me. It's use was banned sometime in the 70's and those who suffered and will suffer as a result of asbestos exposure is a national tradgedy. Rigid safety precautions have been adopted by OSHA, to protect today's working men and women. Billions have been spent voluntarily by industry for the abatement of asbestos materials in the workplace.

Maybe Do-double-gg or you can give us an honest assessment of how much asbestos laiden materials still remains in the Big Sandy Plant. The fighting "I", Enterprise, Hornet, Missouri and other ships we used to win WWII had asbestos in their innards, so did brake shoes for my '64 chevy. Folks just didn't know back then.

I will give TRV this much. They do still have some asbestos at the plant but it's not like they hide it or anything. They have a sign at the front gate to warn people who enter abouit it. All the people who work see the sign at the gate and they know the risk but they still go to work. If that don't tell you how bad things are and how bad people need this job I don't know what will. Right now as we speak they have part of the plant shut down and they are trying to clean up the remainder of the asbestos. They have a crew who go around all day with the suit and mask and stuff working on this problem. As far as how much asbestos they still have I honestly don't know.

[TheRealThing]

I will give TRV this much. They do still have some asbestos at the plant but it's not like they hide it or anything. They have a sign at the front gate to warn people who enter abouit it. All the people who work see the sign at the gate and they know the risk but they still go to work. If that don't tell you how bad things are and how bad people need this job I don't know what will. Right now as we speak they have part of the plant shut down and they are trying to clean up the remainder of the asbestos. They have a crew who go around all day with the suit and mask and stuff working on this problem. As far as how much asbestos they still have I honestly don't know.

Well, I will say this. AEP can certainly afford to keep a crew employed abating asbestos year round until they get it under control. Encapsulation, is a viable stop gap until such time as abatement is convenient.

[TheRealVille]

I will give TRV this much. They do still have some asbestos at the plant but it's not like they hide it or anything. They have a sign at the front gate to warn people who enter abouit it. All the people who work see the sign at the gate and they know the risk but they still go to work. If that don't tell you how bad things are and how bad people need this job I don't know what will. Right now as we speak they have part of the plant shut down and they are trying to clean up the remainder of the asbestos. They have a crew who go around all day with the suit and mask and stuff working on this problem. As far as how much asbestos they still have I honestly don't know.

It is legal to have asbestos still in plants, but it is law that it is controlled and kept covered up. In Big Sandy, it is exposed in many different places.

[vector]

But, I am not for letting everything go into the air. They need to clean up their "stacks". BS is one of the dirtiest burning plants in this area, right behind Phillip Sporn, and also cover the asbestos. BS is a very profitable AEP plant, they can afford to be safe, and burn clean. BTW, I have called OSHA to both plants while I was there, and they just look around, and leave. You know as well as me, big business wins most every time.

have you called osha the last 2 years

[TheRealVille]

have you called osha the last 2 years

No. I generally don't go back there much.

[vector]

I will give TRV this much. They do still have some asbestos at the plant but it's not like they hide it or anything. They have a sign at the front gate to warn people who enter abouit it. All the people who work see the sign at the gate and they know the risk but they still go to work. If that don't tell you how bad things are and how bad people need this job I don't know what will. Right now as we speak they have part of the plant shut down and they are trying to clean up the remainder of the asbestos. They have a crew who go around all day with the suit and mask and stuff working on this problem. As far as how much asbestos they still have I honestly don't know.

i believe we have know asbestos will kill you 25 30 years ago maby longer and
they are now just trying to clean it up? this is crazy

[vector]

No. I generally don't go back there much.

maybe that it why they are cleaning it up now

i know in the mining industry they are inforcing the laws

not turning there heads like they have for the last 30 years

[TheRealVille]

i believe we have know asbestos will kill you 25 30 years ago maby longer and
they are now just trying to clean it up? this is crazy

They have known asbestos will kill you as far back as the late 1800's. That is the problem, and why the big companies are having to pay out the nose. They kept the dangers hid, until the mid 70's. In the mid 70's the use of asbestos was outlawed, but to help the companies out that had tons of it in their plants, the government left a stipulation in place that basically said, "if you keep it controlled, and covered up, it can remain in your plant". That's where the problem begins, companies are flagrantly defying this rule, because it is very expensive to get rid of, and cover up exposed asbestos. They know they have 20-30 years before a person is likely to get sick from exposure, so they have a very big window to work with for each person.

[TheRealVille]

After DD got the thread so far off track with his defense of Big Sandy, maybe the thread should be steered back toward it's topic. Obama and Libya.

[TheRealThing]

Click Me to see true nature of the EPA, EVERYTHING THAT HAS A BEGINNING HAS AN END.

[attachment=o2693]

[Hoot Gibson]

Republicans hammered away at Obama over the mishandling of the Benghazi crises on the Sunday talk shows today. The question is whether enough Americans care that their president has lied to them about this terrorist attack or not.

The low-information voters who will be voting for Obama will simply respond to such questions about this embarrassing failure with a blank look as they ask, "What is a ben gazi?"

Will Leon Panetta let himself become a scapegoat, at least until after the election, or does he hope to have a political career after this campaign? Obama said that he told his staff to do whatever was needed to secure "our folks." If you believe that, then you must also believe that Panetta disobeyed a direct order from his Commander-in-Chief when he decided that intelligence was too weak to risk deploying any of our military assets to secure the consulate.

Will Obama be able to run out the clock before the media finally cries "Foul!" That may determine whether this scandal plays out after the election or if the election metes out justice to the scoundrels who sat and watched as Americans were attacked and killed in Libya, without lifting a finger to help them.

[WideRight05]

The facts will be released one day, whether it's before or after the election. Even if Obama is re-elected, they will hit him hard during his second term. Even though he won't be running for re-election in 2016, it will hurt the democrat who is running badly.

[TheRealThing]

Republicans hammered away at Obama over the mishandling of the Benghazi crises on the Sunday talk shows today. The question is whether enough Americans care that their president has lied to them about this terrorist attack or not.

The low-information voters who will be voting for Obama will simply respond to such questions about this embarrassing failure with a blank look as they ask, "What is a ben gazi?"

Will Leon Panetta let himself become a scapegoat, at least until after the election, or does he hope to have a political career after this campaign? Obama said that he told his staff to do whatever was needed to secure "our folks." If you believe that, then you must also believe that Panetta disobeyed a direct order from his Commander-in-Chief when he decided that intelligence was too weak to risk deploying any of our military assets to secure the consulate.

Will Obama be able to run out the clock before the media finally cries "Foul!" That may determine whether this scandal plays out after the election or if the election metes out justice to the scoundrels who sat and watched as Americans were attacked and killed in Libya, without lifting a finger to help them.

That is exactly where this is headed. If Panetta falls on the sword, Obama can say he gave orders to do everything possible to help those in Benghazi and they just were not followed. Which is absurd on it's face but, some folks are willing to do believe anything in order to get him reelected. Did I say believe? Let me change that, they don't believe it, they just don't care. Party and the social justice movement is more important to them than anything.

[Benchwarmer]

It's Bush's fault I didn't send any backup in. Even, thugh they wanted backup. Or, I didnt know. This ignorant president need to go.

[TheRealVille]

I'm not downplaying the four deaths in Libya, but why are they talked about tons more than the soldiers that are dying every day? Is it political, or out of real concern? Honesty is your friend.

[vector]

I'm not downplaying the four deaths in Libya, but why are they talked about tons more than the soldiers that are dying every day? Is it political, or out of real concern? Honesty is your friend.

political plain and simple

bush lied about wmd's
reagan selling weapons for hostages
Iran Contra affair

[TheRealThing]

I'm not downplaying the four deaths in Libya, but why are they talked about tons more than the soldiers that are dying every day? Is it political, or out of real concern? Honesty is your friend.

When would you say that soldiers dying every day, were on top of a roof with laser targeting aimed at the very mortars which eventually would kill them. And being in communication for 7 hours with their commanders, were just blown off and allowed eat mortar fire?

If we didn't know what Obama, Clinton, Rice, Carney said about the anti-Ismaic video, and didn't have them on video where we could watch them saying it was the video for weeks, and analyze the time line over and over. And if we didn't have radio transcripts of the voice communications between our stranded ex seals and Ambassador Stevens to their commanders and in real time to the White House situation room. Eye witness reports of Libyan militia stationed at the compound which willingly had submitted to the command and control of American ex service to lead them. Interfacing dialogue among the commanders of our armed services in that particular theater. Email logs into and out of the White House, diplomatic cables. Two aerial video logs of the violence along with security camera recordings from the compound and months of lead up pleas for more help and the reluctant departure of the security team which had just rotated back to the states. Maybe then, you could call this political. Oh, and let's not forget the real reason we know all of this stuff in the first place. The whistle blowers from within the Obama administration itself.

Honesty might be your and my friend, but, it aint said howdy to this crowd for the last four years.

[TheRealThing]

political plain and simple

bush lied about wmd's
reagan selling weapons for hostages
Iran Contra affair

Bush didn't lie about the WMD's. The very guys you worship, democratic leadership, were the one's who looked at the same intel W did and they were all about invasion. They pushed for invasion and they voted to do it and appropriated the money through the congress to go do it. That's a 10 year old talking point you keep spouting off about, can't you get some new material? Cause I can hook you up with the DNC. :biggrin: