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Old 10-21-2012, 04:26 PM
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Default Standard state draw, or sub section!
Which do you prefer? Playing a state draw, or do it like soccer and baseball use to?13th vs 14th 15th vs 16th, and then blind draw. Wouldn't e private schools. They are going to win anyways. Sub section at home gym would be cool.
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Old 10-22-2012, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by cougarpride08 View Post
Which do you prefer? Playing a state draw, or do it like soccer and baseball use to?13th vs 14th 15th vs 16th, and then blind draw. Wouldn't e private schools. They are going to win anyways. Sub section at home gym would be cool.
Have Regional winner and loser advance to state and then play opening round sub section. Have only District winner advance to Regionals, not runner-up.
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Old 10-22-2012, 11:28 AM
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Makes you wonder how much longer it will go like this. Too much disinterest in the state format. Certain private schools get in, some get left out. Greenwood went to final a year a go, but other than that these small schools don't stand a chance against a sport that has private schools who gets the pick of the litter at there city.
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Old 10-22-2012, 11:30 AM
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Should play double elimination at the state level. You go to Louisville or Northern Kentucky with one and done.
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Old 10-22-2012, 11:35 AM
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I like the soccer format. 13th plays 14th, 15th plays 16th, and then it gets a draw. Makes it more fun. Since they are not going to split into classes it is a win win both ways.
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Old 10-22-2012, 07:51 PM
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There is no perfect way to set up any sport in any state. The best way to make it happen would be the current 16 regions go to one site and have a pool play tournament to determine the four teams that make it to the elimination portion of the event. This way the teams that have no business being there talent0wise might still have a chance to win a game at state while the teams that dominate are still dominating. Ron Kordes at Assumption knows how to run a volleyball program and until the rest of the state (outside of the Louisville and NKy area) follows suit and sets up good club-level programs then the 6th, 7th and 9th Regions will continue to dominate at state.

Volleyball in Kentucky overall is pretty sad when the best tournament in the state is usually the Louisville Invitational instead of the actual state tournament.
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Old 10-23-2012, 03:39 AM
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Perfectly said!
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Old 10-23-2012, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by statmanhensley View Post
There is no perfect way to set up any sport in any state. The best way to make it happen would be the current 16 regions go to one site and have a pool play tournament to determine the four teams that make it to the elimination portion of the event. This way the teams that have no business being there talent0wise might still have a chance to win a game at state while the teams that dominate are still dominating. Ron Kordes at Assumption knows how to run a volleyball program and until the rest of the state (outside of the Louisville and NKy area) follows suit and sets up good club-level programs then the 6th, 7th and 9th Regions will continue to dominate at state.

Volleyball in Kentucky overall is pretty sad when the best tournament in the state is usually the Louisville Invitational instead of the actual state tournament.
What Assumption benefits from is that all of the girls play together year 'round on the same high school and club team. Many states, like Ohio, limit the number of players a high school can take from the same club team to prevent this from happening. I don't expect that rule to change in KY anytime soon.

And yes, the state tourney is a joke. It's set up and run (like everything in the state) like a basketball tourney. Well, the talent gap in Volleyball is much wider across the state than in basketball. You can't run the tournament the same way. They even re-drew the Regions and Districts to align more with basketball - why? Problems are everywhere . . .small schools with no chance, good schools left at home because the regions and districts aren't diverse enough in the volleyball hotspots, the blind draw (which is worthless) . . . My point is - only 6 teams have ever won the championship - isn't that enough evidence it's time to try something else?
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Old 10-25-2012, 05:05 PM
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Those six schools is what is keeping us from changing. They like it obviously.
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Old 10-31-2012, 06:26 PM
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IF, and that's a BIG IF, they did decide to split volleyball into classes, would it really change the results?
First, they would have to decide on the class makeup. Who would make that decision? The KHSAA of course. And who would they consult with? The KVCA would definately be involved in some way. The head of the KVCA was a prominent figure at the state tourney. Today the KVCA released their All State team results for this year. And again, they have them broken out by classes (that don't really exist) and in reading them you find the following information.

Class 3A members: Assumption, Sacred Heart, Notre Dame
Class 2A member: Mercy
Class 1A members: St. Henry, Lou. Holy Cross

Brossart, Newport Central Catholic, Villa Madonna, Lexington Catholic and Presentation had no players on the list, but all have participated in the All A Classic in recent years. If a class system were to be put into place, there would still, more than likely, be a private school winner in each class.
I did have the opportunity to overhear some conversations during the state tourney regarding the fact that something needed to done to enhance the present system. Nothing concrete, but something to equalize the disparity in the level of competition. Usually that means a class system. I guess only the future will tell, but if it does result in classes, will it really change the outcomes?
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Old 10-31-2012, 07:26 PM
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Years ago, the regional runner-up did advance to the state tourney. That was in the days when not as many regions were fielding teams. If you did that, you'd have to fiddle with the format as it is too time constrained now. As another poster said, it's pretty bad when the best tournament is the LIT--VERY true.
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Old 11-01-2012, 03:53 AM
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Sub section or pool play is the only way to go. State draw makes it horrible unless you are the big three.
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Old 11-02-2012, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by KyVolleyballFan View Post
Years ago, the regional runner-up did advance to the state tourney. That was in the days when not as many regions were fielding teams. If you did that, you'd have to fiddle with the format as it is too time constrained now. As another poster said, it's pretty bad when the best tournament is the LIT--VERY true.
Actually it is not the LIT. It is the PCSLIT(Private Catholic School Louisville Invitational Tournament). Most of the public schools in Louisville are not doing much better then the public schools in the rest of the state. It has been all private catholic schools so far and will continue to be for a long time. Club volleyball is easy to establish when you live in a large urban area with a large population. Every state champion has came from either Louisville or the Greater Cincinnati area. At the private schools, most of the players dedicate their life to volleyball year around. Most volleyball players at the public schools out in the state play multiple sports as most schools in Kentucky are rural and depend on their good female athletes to play multiple sports to be competitive. It has always been and will continue to be an urban Catholic sport in Kentucky. Until the public schools start catching up, which I do not see happening for a long time, my suggestion would be one of two choices. The first being that they continue to play the normal 16 regional tournaments. Then play a subsection to narrow it down to 8 teams. Then use the most reputable coaches poll and invite the top 8 ranked teams that were previously eliminated and add them with the 8 subsection winners and have a state tournament. The other option would be is to have a public school state tournament and a private school state tournament at the same time at the same facility. Have the two state championships on a Saturday night at the same place. Crown these schools as the public and private state champions The following day(probably Sunday), have a match between the two winners to have an overall state champion.
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Old 11-03-2012, 10:17 AM
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I do not like coaches polls because they are always one sided. If your loose region you don't deserve to go to state.
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Old 12-12-2012, 05:36 AM
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I do like the second one Orange. Like I said. Loose region you shouldn't get invited back. Sub sectionals and pool play is the only way to fix this. Sub sectional benefits schools and brings in extra revenue for schools and boosters. Extra referees get more games which means more pay for them. You will probably have more people come out to watch sub sectional games than the first state tournament game which means more fans will come out. With gas prices bad the less travel time will help schools in there budget.Win for KHSAA, schools, players, coaches, and yes even Private schools will like it because they are e favorites anyway.
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Old 07-26-2013, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by OrangenowBlue View Post
Actually it is not the LIT. It is the PCSLIT(Private Catholic School Louisville Invitational Tournament). Most of the public schools in Louisville are not doing much better then the public schools in the rest of the state. It has been all private catholic schools so far and will continue to be for a long time. Club volleyball is easy to establish when you live in a large urban area with a large population. Every state champion has came from either Louisville or the Greater Cincinnati area. At the private schools, most of the players dedicate their life to volleyball year around. Most volleyball players at the public schools out in the state play multiple sports as most schools in Kentucky are rural and depend on their good female athletes to play multiple sports to be competitive. It has always been and will continue to be an urban Catholic sport in Kentucky. Until the public schools start catching up, which I do not see happening for a long time, my suggestion would be one of two choices. The first being that they continue to play the normal 16 regional tournaments. Then play a subsection to narrow it down to 8 teams. Then use the most reputable coaches poll and invite the top 8 ranked teams that were previously eliminated and add them with the 8 subsection winners and have a state tournament. The other option would be is to have a public school state tournament and a private school state tournament at the same time at the same facility. Have the two state championships on a Saturday night at the same place. Crown these schools as the public and private state champions The following day(probably Sunday), have a match between the two winners to have an overall state champion.
Being a private Catholic school has nothing to do with it . . . there's nothing stopping someone in Letcher County from starting a Volleyball club team made up of girls from Letcher and surrounding counties and playing year 'round. Who says you have to play 3 sports in High School? Why? Is anyone asking the girls what they want to do? Isn't it better to be great in 1 sport instead of mediocre in 3? It's real simple - if you want to get better in volleyball, you have to play club and play more than 3 months a year - if you don't want to do that, then don't complain about getting beat by girls that choose to do that. I don't know why girls that play year 'round just happen to go private Catholic schools - but it's not always the case - look at Campbell County and Ryle - 2 public schools with teams full of club players. It can be done.
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Old 07-27-2013, 03:46 AM
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Where would they play club ball and how would it be financed? In the Golden Triangle you can drive one hour in either direction and play...then drive back home. Can't do that in the LKLP/KRADD area. It requires a greater financial burden and most parents are not willing to do that in volleyball.
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Old 07-27-2013, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by UKisN1 View Post
Where would they play club ball and how would it be financed? In the Golden Triangle you can drive one hour in either direction and play...then drive back home. Can't do that in the LKLP/KRADD area. It requires a greater financial burden and most parents are not willing to do that in volleyball.
You practice in a gym, it's financed by parents, and you play in tournaments, just like everyone else. It's no different than basketball, softball, soccer, or any other AAU/travel/club team. There are girls that travel 60 miles each way to get to clubs in Lexington, Louisville, and Northern Kentucky. It's a commitment pure and simple, but it does get results. You travel to tournaments to play on the weekends from Jan-June, they are held just about everywhere.
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Old 07-27-2013, 12:49 PM
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You just don't get it.
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Old 07-27-2013, 01:02 PM
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Evidently you think people in Letcher Co are wealthy. A major wake up call. We could do club ball, but no one in eastern KY does. Which means a lot more travel. If others around us would it would be better.
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Old 07-27-2013, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by mrknowitball View Post
Being a private Catholic school has nothing to do with it . . . there's nothing stopping someone in Letcher County from starting a Volleyball club team made up of girls from Letcher and surrounding counties and playing year 'round. Who says you have to play 3 sports in High School? Why? Is anyone asking the girls what they want to do? Isn't it better to be great in 1 sport instead of mediocre in 3? It's real simple - if you want to get better in volleyball, you have to play club and play more than 3 months a year - if you don't want to do that, then don't complain about getting beat by girls that choose to do that. I don't know why girls that play year 'round just happen to go private Catholic schools - but it's not always the case - look at Campbell County and Ryle - 2 public schools with teams full of club players. It can be done.
Being a Catholic school must have something to do with it as they have won every state title since the beginning of the volleyball state tournament. I love how some of our sports brethren in Northern Kentucky feel like they are "all knowledgable" about every section of the state and have the answers for every problem or issue that plague other counties or areas. Club programs in Eastern Kentucky have been started in the past and can be started in the future. The problems is the distance and lack of population to maintain club programs or improve the quality. Most of the schools are smaller and depend on the same athletes to compete. You state that Campbell County and Ryle teams are full of club players. Where are these schools located? Oh yeah, in the greater Cincinnati area with a population of well over one million people. Oh yeah, they are located within a one hour drive of Dayton(Ohio), Louisville, and Lexington. Oh yeah, they reap the benefits of being in an area of where there is some top notch CATHOLIC programs.
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Old 07-27-2013, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by mrknowitball View Post
You practice in a gym, it's financed by parents, and you play in tournaments, just like everyone else. It's no different than basketball, softball, soccer, or any other AAU/travel/club team. There are girls that travel 60 miles each way to get to clubs in Lexington, Louisville, and Northern Kentucky. It's a commitment pure and simple, but it does get results. You travel to tournaments to play on the weekends from Jan-June, they are held just about everywhere.
I guess in Northern Kentucky driving sixty miles one way is considered a big sacrifice. In Eastern Kentucky driving sixty miles is just a normal drive to another school in the same region which happens on a weekly basis.
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Old 07-27-2013, 04:30 PM
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This debate is pointless anyways...we keep winning our region and going to state and so e of the private school gets kicked out of there region. Which one of your private athletic directors that was on the board of control voted against private and public split. Your fault. You guys was thinking too much about the sweet sixteen and didn't think about the rest of the sport. Soccer at least plays first round at schools field. They are the only ones.
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Old 07-27-2013, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by OrangenowBlue View Post
I guess in Northern Kentucky driving sixty miles one way is considered a big sacrifice. In Eastern Kentucky driving sixty miles is just a normal drive to another school in the same region which happens on a weekly basis.
And 60 miles. To another school who either don't play the sport or don't do club ball.
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Old 07-27-2013, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by OrangenowBlue View Post
Being a Catholic school must have something to do with it as they have won every state title since the beginning of the volleyball state tournament. I love how some of our sports brethren in Northern Kentucky feel like they are "all knowledgable" about every section of the state and have the answers for every problem or issue that plague other counties or areas. Club programs in Eastern Kentucky have been started in the past and can be started in the future. The problems is the distance and lack of population to maintain club programs or improve the quality. Most of the schools are smaller and depend on the same athletes to compete. You state that Campbell County and Ryle teams are full of club players. Where are these schools located? Oh yeah, in the greater Cincinnati area with a population of well over one million people. Oh yeah, they are located within a one hour drive of Dayton(Ohio), Louisville, and Lexington. Oh yeah, they reap the benefits of being in an area of where there is some top notch CATHOLIC programs.
Oh yeah... Explain to me again how a public school would benefit because there are top notch Catholic programs competing with them . . . It actually would be the opposite, taking skilled players away from the public schools, a problem a rural school DOESN'T have.

Oh yeah...I don't know where u live, but I live in Kentucky. The population of Dayton, Ohio and Cincinnati, Ohio have little to do with Kentucky High School Volleyball, since Ohio students surprisingly go to school in Ohio.
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Old 07-27-2013, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by cougarpride08 View Post
This debate is pointless anyways...we keep winning our region and going to state and so e of the private school gets kicked out of there region. Which one of your private athletic directors that was on the board of control voted against private and public split. Your fault. You guys was thinking too much about the sweet sixteen and didn't think about the rest of the sport. Soccer at least plays first round at schools field. They are the only ones.
Since your not making much sense, I'll just say if you are happy with the way things are going then so be it.
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  #27  
Old 07-28-2013, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by mrknowitball View Post
Oh yeah... Explain to me again how a public school would benefit because there are top notch Catholic programs competing with them . . . It actually would be the opposite, taking skilled players away from the public schools, a problem a rural school DOESN'T have.

Oh yeah...I don't know where u live, but I live in Kentucky. The population of Dayton, Ohio and Cincinnati, Ohio have little to do with Kentucky High School Volleyball, since Ohio students surprisingly go to school in Ohio.
The benefits that Northern Kentucky Public Schools receive from the top notch Catholic schools is healthy competition which makes all the kids and schools better whether in schools or in club play. Congratulations you live in Kentucky. If you live near the Ohio River near Cincinnati, you live in a heavily populated area with a population of close to a million people. You also live across the river from Cincinnati and an hour from Dayton both are heavily populated and provide other avenues for competitive club play. Those areas are also around one hour from Lexington and Louisville.

You may consider 60 miles a commitment and a sacrifice but that is a normal away game for many schools in Eastern Kentucky
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  #28  
Old 07-28-2013, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by mrknowitball View Post
You practice in a gym, it's financed by parents, and you play in tournaments, just like everyone else. It's no different than basketball, softball, soccer, or any other AAU/travel/club team. There are girls that travel 60 miles each way to get to clubs in Lexington, Louisville, and Northern Kentucky. It's a commitment pure and simple, but it does get results. You travel to tournaments to play on the weekends from Jan-June, they are held just about everywhere.
One caveat. KHSAA requires that they not play in a school gym. So that knocks out using any local high schools for games. That leaves UPike, the EKy Expo Center, and the Knott County Sportsplex as the only possible venues for club volleyball within an hour and a half to 2 hour drive of Pike County I know some girls who drove to Huntington and Ashland to play club volleyball because that is the closest they could do it. Not for lack of interest in the area, for sure.
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Old 07-28-2013, 09:18 AM
mrknowitball mrknowitball is offline
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Originally Posted by PHSForever View Post
One caveat. KHSAA requires that they not play in a school gym. So that knocks out using any local high schools for games. That leaves UPike, the EKy Expo Center, and the Knott County Sportsplex as the only possible venues for club volleyball within an hour and a half to 2 hour drive of Pike County I know some girls who drove to Huntington and Ashland to play club volleyball because that is the closest they could do it. Not for lack of interest in the area, for sure.
You can practice in any gym that will take the rental money. You don't play there, because there are no "games". In club volleyball there are only tournaments, held around the state, the region, and the country every weekend. You enter as many or as few as you like. If you are doing it right, you will never have a home "game" where they practice. I don't know about KHSAA Conflict. Many clubs use HS gyms. Middle school gyms work too.
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Old 07-28-2013, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by mrknowitball View Post
You can practice in any gym that will take the rental money. You don't play there, because there are no "games". In club volleyball there are only tournaments, held around the state, the region, and the country every weekend. You enter as many or as few as you like. If you are doing it right, you will never have a home "game" where they practice. I don't know about KHSAA Conflict. Many clubs use HS gyms. Middle school gyms work too.
But that is my point. Nowhere close that allows them to have "tournaments" really, so it is kind of pointless in some people's minds to start a league here when all the games would be away. And yes, there is a conflict for practice and games/tournaments, as explained by the coach last year. It is one of the reasons we were unable to really field a team. Additionally, when you factor in driving 3 hours roundtrip for practice only with some of these clubs 2-3 times a week, it gets cost prohibitive for many families. Games only, I would see your point, but you are failing to consider the practice aspect.
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