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  #31  
Old 11-06-2017, 08:43 PM
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I’m just afraid the kids are going to pay for it in the long run
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  #32  
Old 11-06-2017, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Fly Like a Duck View Post
College grads arenít going into education. Talk to some people in your school district that do the hiring. It will blow your mind.

I know of a district that had/has a PE opening after the first 9 weeks and they were hoping to find somebody to fill it; even called to one of our major universities in the state to get an idea on the number of those who had recently graduated in the Spring and/or Summer or 2017 with PE/Health credentials and teaching rights......know how many that was? ONE.

Young people ARE not going into education; thatís the issue. With this new system itís going to be even less.

The number of young people not going into Education is one of the reasons why they are hiring some of these 100 day contracted ďretiredĒ teachers. From my experiences they are MAGNIFICENT hires; they are giving those who have tons of experience something to do 2-3 Days a week.

I donít know about you, but if I just had to work/go all out 2-3 Days a week for 9 months a year; Iíd be through the roof with energy and effectiveness.

These 100 day people are golden in my book. School systems are going to miss them; especially at the current rate (or lack thereof) of those not going into Education.
I have found this to be the exact opposite in my area. Too many kids have went into education and in turn have no jobs unless they move.
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  #33  
Old 11-06-2017, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by 99PIRATEFAN View Post
Iím just afraid the kids are going to pay for it in the long run
No doubt!
That is why it was essential for Bevin to make charter schools a reality in this state. If done correctly, that will completely change the educational system in this state. Govt funded but independently ran.
Kentucky educators tried so hard to be like others, they've forgotten who they are. There is absoloutly no reason for a high school teacher to need a master's degree. Just get a bachelor's in the field of study you want to teach and be done with it. The only thing a master's should be for is the principalship. All a master's degree does for teachers is raise the student debt crisis. And I can guarantee you 99 percent of teachers don't absorb any information they obtain from that extra coursework. You're trying to tell people how to do their jobs after they've already been on the job for years.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure I can go across the border into Tennessee and get a teaching job tomorrow with my bachelor's that has nothing to do with teaching.
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  #34  
Old 11-06-2017, 09:47 PM
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I can’t see charter schools improving the coaching exodus.

Teaching is like coaching; everybody believes they can do it.
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  #35  
Old 11-06-2017, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by RicFlair View Post
Agreed with Bulldogs.... so many people are double dipping and making all kinds of money when you have recent college grads that canít find a job because people who are already drawing a pension can come back and make boat loads of money and the majority of them arenít effective in their jobs. Education has changed ALOT even since Iíve been out of college, can you imagine what they were taught 30+ years ago?
We teach with so many different strategies these days. Not just read the material and memorize, recite/answer, etc.. 'Think outside the box'...mastery learners, interpersonal learning, etc.. For example, you may go in on Monday and do a bell ringer, making up 3 or 4 metaphors for a topic, real quick, 5 minutes to get it done, the next day it may simply be write your definition of that topic...I don't know which way was better, 30 years ago, or today. I do know we are taught, to teach, different ways/methods so ALL kids in the class hopefully learn the material. Not really an easy thing to do, even for young, or 'youngish' teachers, and almost impossible for older teachers, 'old school' teachers are feeling more and more out of place and you can tell. Most are just subbing these days, their 100 days if they can get 'em, if they can't get their 100 days in my county, they don't worry about it too much. The older folks are truly wanting to be retired around here. Coaching...whole other story. Our head coach is 43 years old but has taught over 20 years. But coach Stonebraker has enough energy for a 20 year old man, and there's no way he can sit around and not coach after he is able to retire, he'd go nuts. I dare say there is not another coach in the state with his energy.
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  #36  
Old 11-06-2017, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Cardfan1 View Post
I canít see charter schools improving the coaching exodus.

Teaching is like coaching; everybody believes they can do it.
It won't improve the coaching situation. What you got is what you got. If anything charter school will hurt the coaching situation and sports in general for a better academic future
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  #37  
Old 11-06-2017, 09:58 PM
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[QUOTE=RicFlair;2098796]Agreed with Bulldogs.... so many people are double dipping and making all kinds of money when you have recent college grads that can’t find a job because people who are already drawing a pension can come back and make boat loads of money and the majority of them aren’t effective in their jobs. Education has changed ALOT even since I’ve been out of college, can you imagine what they were taught 30+ years ago?[/QUOTE


Sorry double post....
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  #38  
Old 11-06-2017, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by 99PIRATEFAN View Post
Coach Haywood is the Guidance Counselor he has been the whole time heís been at Belfry but he works with all kids in the school he does a very good job at what he does
That's outstanding, it says a lot about a person who has his heart in both things, not everyone does. And that's understandable as well. As I said, my post wasn't meant to negative towards him, if it was perceived that way, I am sorry, it was taken out of context. Glad he's helping kids on both sides of it. from the sound of it, I'd say he's gonna be missed when he decides to hang it up. But back to the topic.......

How many other coaches in the state do you think you could say that about? That gives it just as much in the classroom as they do the field? I've been around teachers, and I'd say its almost impossible. Unless things have changed, teaching doesn't stop at 4PM. How many coaches can get done with practice at 7 or 8 then come home to do school work and family time, and give 100% in both? NOT many I would assume. I just think it needs to be revamped or at least brought back up for discussion amongst people more important than us.... and I'm pretty important... in my own mind
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  #39  
Old 11-07-2017, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by RunItUpTheGut View Post
It won't improve the coaching situation. What you got is what you got. If anything charter school will hurt the coaching situation and sports in general for a better academic future
We will have to agree to disagree on charter schools and academics since this thread is about coaching. I donít want to be the one that runs it off the rails.

Coaching will never be what it is in Georgia or Texas here in Kentucky, but if you can lure young people to teach you often can get coaches. The current teaching climate doesnít lure young people in, and we even have admins across the state who discourage coaching. If we stay on this path the discrepancy in good and bad football will continue to grow.
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  #40  
Old 11-07-2017, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Hound05 View Post
I was using that as an example- NOT as a fact- for the bigger picture. obviously I have no idea how well he does or doesn't do his job, nor really care, it was a metaphor. He may be the best thing since sliced bread, that's not the point, and that's not the basis of the post. It wasn't meant as a personal attack- obviously- or I wouldn't have put my schools coach in there. No need to get pissy about it brother. You looked at one line of the entire post and took it personal when that's not the context it was meant for. Sorry if it "offended" you. I said there is a lot of coaches who do well as teachers, according to your history with him, he probably belongs in that group (even though hes a counselor). The message is, why are we making great coaches take up spots as teachers, when their heart isn't in it, when someone else's would? We basically hire them to coach, let them coach. Or do you disagree with that?
Apparently my post came off the wrong way. It wasn't my intention to come off as pissy or offended. I got what you were saying and was illustrating how Belfry handles the coaches in the classroom issue when they can, while alos noting that Haywood was able to fill his school roll without it impacting his school job or his coaching job because it wasn't too overwhelming and the students aren't being cheated. Now I did attend a school in grade school where the basketball coach taught science, lets just say during basketball season we didn't learn a lot of science. I agree that Coaches shouldn't be bothered with being in a Classroom if they are hired to Coach, most times it is convenient though to also work at the school because that is where most of their income comes from and it guarantees a schedule that will work with their sport.

If I read the bylaws correctly most of our coaches, including Coach Haywood are classified as Level 1 coaches. I don't think any school who wants to keep their Coach will be impacted by this retirement issue because they can just become Level 2 coaches, which I believe doesn't require them to be employed by the school. They can retire from teaching and still be able to be paid for coaching as Level 2 if I read things correctly.

Now what I haven't been able to find is if Level 2 coaches are paid more than level 1 coaches, which is why we see more Level 1's. Level 1 coaches are usually paid a stipend of 8-12K (last time I saw, may be higher now). I know here in GA over 25 coaches are making 6 figure salaries with the highest paid coach making about 175K. Those guys are all teachers, teaching 2 classes a day making teaching salaries, but they are getting several different incentives to get to that point. One Coach is making a salary for teaching ($70,870.00); working an extra 50 days ($18,650.00); and a supplement for coaching football ($16,500.00), plus incentives for playoffs and state titles. This is how most of their contracts work. Another coach who doesn't teach is making 57K a year just coaching football. If this is the case in KY then it makes sense for the school financially to hire a teacher who can coach an only pay a small stipend vs a full salaried coach and a separate teacher.
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  #41  
Old 11-07-2017, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Hound05 View Post
That's outstanding, it says a lot about a person who has his heart in both things, not everyone does. And that's understandable as well. As I said, my post wasn't meant to negative towards him, if it was perceived that way, I am sorry, it was taken out of context. Glad he's helping kids on both sides of it. from the sound of it, I'd say he's gonna be missed when he decides to hang it up. But back to the topic.......

How many other coaches in the state do you think you could say that about? That gives it just as much in the classroom as they do the field? I've been around teachers, and I'd say its almost impossible. Unless things have changed, teaching doesn't stop at 4PM. How many coaches can get done with practice at 7 or 8 then come home to do school work and family time, and give 100% in both? NOT many I would assume. I just think it needs to be revamped or at least brought back up for discussion amongst people more important than us.... and I'm pretty important... in my own mind
I didnít take it negative heís just the only one I can speak for Iím sure thereís plenty more like him itís just sad that these men are going to be pushed out and you really canít blame them they work there whole life to be able to retire and be able to afford to live after retirement
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  #42  
Old 11-07-2017, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Cardfan1 View Post
If coaches are limited to 100 hours a month they will be affected.



Jobs are out there. Maybe just not in the district your friends want. That will start to trickle down soon though.
Originally Posted by Brother Xavier View Post
You haven't been following the news about the proposal. Retired teachers will not be able to double dip with a 100 day job or being a substitute with the new proposal set up (in order to be paid by a school a coach has to be employed in some manner). Also to get full benefits under the old retirement format a teacher will need to retire before 2023. Maybe sooner not sure about the date...so it will push put a lot of quality seasoned coaches...leaving an already thin coaching market, thinner.
Again teaching and coaching two different things. Supplemental contracts do not play in retirement. If you are retired and want to coach you can and in no way does it affect or even reported to KTRS (I'm in this situation). Now a 100 day contract that's different because you are limited on the number of days you can work in the building same with subbing. Coaching and teaching are two different things
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  #43  
Old 11-07-2017, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by AtlPirateFan View Post
Apparently my post came off the wrong way. It wasn't my intention to come off as pissy or offended. I got what you were saying and was illustrating how Belfry handles the coaches in the classroom issue when they can, while alos noting that Haywood was able to fill his school roll without it impacting his school job or his coaching job because it wasn't too overwhelming and the students aren't being cheated. Now I did attend a school in grade school where the basketball coach taught science, lets just say during basketball season we didn't learn a lot of science. I agree that Coaches shouldn't be bothered with being in a Classroom if they are hired to Coach, most times it is convenient though to also work at the school because that is where most of their income comes from and it guarantees a schedule that will work with their sport.

If I read the bylaws correctly most of our coaches, including Coach Haywood are classified as Level 1 coaches. I don't think any school who wants to keep their Coach will be impacted by this retirement issue because they can just become Level 2 coaches, which I believe doesn't require them to be employed by the school. They can retire from teaching and still be able to be paid for coaching as Level 2 if I read things correctly.

Now what I haven't been able to find is if Level 2 coaches are paid more than level 1 coaches, which is why we see more Level 1's. Level 1 coaches are usually paid a stipend of 8-12K (last time I saw, may be higher now). I know here in GA over 25 coaches are making 6 figure salaries with the highest paid coach making about 175K. Those guys are all teachers, teaching 2 classes a day making teaching salaries, but they are getting several different incentives to get to that point. One Coach is making a salary for teaching ($70,870.00); working an extra 50 days ($18,650.00); and a supplement for coaching football ($16,500.00), plus incentives for playoffs and state titles. This is how most of their contracts work. Another coach who doesn't teach is making 57K a year just coaching football. If this is the case in KY then it makes sense for the school financially to hire a teacher who can coach an only pay a small stipend vs a full salaried coach and a separate teacher.
10-4 man it all good.

Thatís interesting and a good point about the level 2 coaches, I couldnít find anything either. Like you said if it works out like it should, they should be able to draw retirement and get possibly level 2 pay for coaching. Iím not sure how that works though.

Wooowwwww!!!!! GA really takes cares if coaches down there! I think FL is close to the same way from what a relative told me.
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  #44  
Old 11-07-2017, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by 99PIRATEFAN View Post
I didnít take it negative heís just the only one I can speak for Iím sure thereís plenty more like him itís just sad that these men are going to be pushed out and you really canít blame them they work there whole life to be able to retire and be able to afford to live after retirement
I donít blame them at all. They should get what they worked for and are entitled too. I just donít think itís gonna end up to pretty for most because of mismanagement the last decade. It has me really worried about the future of coaches in the state of Ky. I think the top programs will start to separate even from more everyone else.
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  #45  
Old 11-07-2017, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Hound05 View Post
I donít blame them at all. They should get what they worked for and are entitled too. I just donít think itís gonna end up to pretty for most because of mismanagement the last decade. It has me really worried about the future of coaches in the state of Ky. I think the top programs will start to separate even from more everyone else.

That's the biggest issue I can see going forward with this. There's going to be a lot of lower level/poor schools who can't attract anyone, let alone someone who wants to come and coach as well.
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  #46  
Old 11-07-2017, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by nky View Post
Again teaching and coaching two different things. Supplemental contracts do not play in retirement. If you are retired and want to coach you can and in no way does it affect or even reported to KTRS (I'm in this situation). Now a 100 day contract that's different because you are limited on the number of days you can work in the building same with subbing. Coaching and teaching are two different things
You are correct they are 2 different things...however they come from the same employer...under the new proposal a Kentucky state teacher retiree cannot be employed by the state. In order to get paid for coaching you must be a Kentucky state employee (example be a substitute or 100 day job). Unless there is something way they can get paid or they volunteer then they will be done with coaching. Look up the reform proposal.
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  #47  
Old 11-07-2017, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Hound05 View Post
10-4 man it all good.

Thatís interesting and a good point about the level 2 coaches, I couldnít find anything either. Like you said if it works out like it should, they should be able to draw retirement and get possibly level 2 pay for coaching. Iím not sure how that works though.

Wooowwwww!!!!! GA really takes cares if coaches down there! I think FL is close to the same way from what a relative told me.
Florida coaches actually don't make jack squat lol...surprised me, too. What they do have is

1) Boatloads of talent (goes without saying lol)
2) Football is a priority
3) coaches are killing themselves in the classroom every day...at least not during the season.
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  #48  
Old 11-07-2017, 11:01 AM
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Hi Ducky!!!!!!

Been missing you!!!!
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  #49  
Old 11-07-2017, 12:06 PM
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This thread is full of mis-information. I would advise becoming familiar with current "return to work" regulations that already limit what retirees can make if they return to certified position employment. If a certified retiree returns in a classified position they are taking a job that is far less pay that what that retiree could likely make anywhere else. Perhaps, if you learn the math, you will find that "double dippers" are not quite raking in the load of cash that you have been led to believe. The wording of the Bevin proposal talks about "new retirees" being unable to work more than 100 hours a month. If by definition, it is relegated to new retirees only it seems that coaches that are retired and working now would be able to continue their work. As for the coaches getting ready to retire, if they have great resumes, they may be relocating out of state or into a private sector or private school job.
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Old 11-07-2017, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Fly Like a Duck View Post
Florida coaches actually don't make jack squat lol...surprised me, too. What they do have is

1) Boatloads of talent (goes without saying lol)
2) Football is a priority
3) coaches are killing themselves in the classroom every day...at least not during the season.
I didnít look up the average salary or number but a relative that worked in the schools outside of Orlando said their coach made good money coaching.
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  #51  
Old 11-07-2017, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Brother Xavier View Post
You are correct they are 2 different things...however they come from the same employer...under the new proposal a Kentucky state teacher retiree cannot be employed by the state. In order to get paid for coaching you must be a Kentucky state employee (example be a substitute or 100 day job). Unless there is something way they can get paid or they volunteer then they will be done with coaching. Look up the reform proposal.
Again teaching is separate from coaching. The governor's plan will not affect extra curricula employees (they do not pay into retirement system), it will effect retired teachers who sub or on a 100 day contract. You'll have to give those up but you can still be a retired teacher and be paid as a coach. See section 98 krs 61.637
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Old 11-07-2017, 01:03 PM
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A new wrinkle under the governors plan a new retiree will have to stay away for 6 months instead on the 90 days currently being used.
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Old 11-07-2017, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by nky View Post
Again teaching is separate from coaching. The governor's plan will not affect extra curricula employees (they do not pay into retirement system), it will effect retired teachers who sub or on a 100 day contract. You'll have to give those up but you can still be a retired teacher and be paid as a coach. See section 98 krs 61.637
Ok...I stand corrected. The way I understood it...once retired...a retiree couldn't substitute or be apart of the state employment system altogether. But this reads they can but under the new retirement criteria.
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Old 11-07-2017, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by RunItUpTheGut View Post
There are several teaching jobs in the surrounding area that start that low.
One of my good friends was just offered a kindergarten position. She has he masters.
Starting pay? 23k

The biggest problem with teaching? There's to many of them, at least in this area. Several people I know with teaching degrees are sitting waiting for somebody to die or retire before they can get a job.
Correction, there are too many elementary teachers. Specialized teachers such as special ed, upper grades math and science, are a need in the field, and I️ would love you see the statistic of a teacher with a masters receiving a 23 thousand dollar salary. Itís public information and since you know the system send me a link.
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  #55  
Old 11-07-2017, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by RicFlair View Post
Correction, there are too many elementary teachers. Specialized teachers such as special ed, upper grades math and science, are a need in the field, and I️ would love you see the statistic of a teacher with a masters receiving a 23 thousand dollar salary. Itís public information and since you know the system send me a link.
I have no reason to lie.
That is exactly what she was offered.
She obviously turned it down as McDonalds pays better...
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Old 11-07-2017, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Fly Like a Duck View Post
College grads arenít going into education. Talk to some people in your school district that do the hiring. It will blow your mind.

I know of a district that had/has a PE opening after the first 9 weeks and they were hoping to find somebody to fill it; even called to one of our major universities in the state to get an idea on the number of those who had recently graduated in the Spring and/or Summer or 2017 with PE/Health credentials and teaching rights......know how many that was? ONE.

Young people ARE not going into education; thatís the issue. With this new system itís going to be even less.

The number of young people not going into Education is one of the reasons why they are hiring some of these 100 day contracted ďretiredĒ teachers. From my experiences they are MAGNIFICENT hires; they are giving those who have tons of experience something to do 2-3 Days a week.

I donít know about you, but if I just had to work/go all out 2-3 Days a week for 9 months a year; Iíd be through the roof with energy and effectiveness.

These 100 day people are golden in my book. School systems are going to miss them; especially at the current rate (or lack thereof) of those not going into Education.
People arenít going into PE anymore because they are cutting the jobs, and the jobs that arenít being cut are held onto by teachers with 20 years experience and donít want the accoutability of teaching in the classroom, itís a no brainer why no one would go into PE, there arenít very many jobs in that field.
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Old 11-07-2017, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by RunItUpTheGut View Post
I have no reason to lie.
That is exactly what she was offered.
She obviously turned it down as McDonalds pays better...
What is her degree in? If she doesnít have a teaching certificate then itís understandable, thatís called emergency certification and once she is certified her pay significantly increases, roughly 10-12k if Iím not mistaken, and if that is the case itís very believable. If that is the situation, you shouldnít be so vague in what you say to make your points seem more valid.
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Old 11-07-2017, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by RicFlair View Post
What is her degree in? If she doesn’t have a teaching certificate then it’s understandable, that’s called emergency certification and once she is certified her pay significantly increases, roughly 10-12k if I’m not mistaken, and if that is the case it’s very believable. If that is the situation, you shouldn’t be so vague in what you say to make your points seem more valid.
She has a teaching degree from the Cumberlands.
She also has her master's in teaching from the Cumberlands.
As I said before, I have no reason to lie. She's been a teacher for almost 7 years now. Taught at 3 different high schools before moving back home recently. I didn't even mention the school that offered her that so it wouldn't be seen as a shot at that school.
The most she ever made in a year teaching is 29K.
You can believe it or not, that's up to you. Even if teachers made 40K it wouldn't be worth it.
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Old 11-07-2017, 11:58 PM
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I know a young man who started teaching and coaching this year. Loves it. Now you don't coach for the money. I think most know that. The hours for the extra stipend doesn't really come out to much. But his friends all make 60-70% more than he does right out of college. One of the perks to teaching is that the good retirement offsets the poor pay. I talked to him a couple of of weeks ago and he is thinking about changing professions. Every teacher he knows is now telling him if the system they are proposing goes through they would not stay in teaching if they were just starting. Most of the teachers and coaches he knows have been doing it for too long to get out now but EVERY one of them tells him he might want to look elsewhere for a career. So sad. There is already a lack of young coaches. I had no idea of that until recently and this will only make it much worse.
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Old 11-08-2017, 07:59 AM
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RIUTG, not calling you a liar, just find that extremely hard to believe since I started teaching 9 years ago and hired in at 30k. The starting pay at Middlesboro is roughly 32k now, and thats with strictly a BA. That doesn't seem like a great deal of money, but a teacher works 180 days a year, 180 days at 8 hours a day is 1,440 hours, divide that by 32k and its 22$/hr. What other job can you have all summer off, every holiday, and snow days, and make 22$/hr? It's not that bad of a deal honestly.

Last edited by RicFlair; 11-08-2017 at 08:01 AM. Reason: Spelling Error
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