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  #1  
Old 11-14-2017, 11:54 AM
mr.fundamental mr.fundamental is offline
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Default Baptists have lost their way
So in ten years, our enrollment has shrunk roughly 1 million. That is 100,000 members a year. The baptist community the one's that have championed the separation of church and state, have not came out and condemn the Johnson admendment being removed from the tax bill. We had 50 pastors in Alabama to endorse Judge Moore. Here is an idea, endorse Christ. Period! The end! I am sad for our fellow Baptists and the traditions on which we were founded. I believe it is in this regard that we have lost our way and our numbers are showing. In my home county, just got in for Thanksgiving Break, 82% of the people do not attend a church. There is over 80 churches to choose from in my county. What the heck.

Any other county having the same problem, if so what are you doing about it?
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Old 11-14-2017, 12:14 PM
mr.fundamental mr.fundamental is offline
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Also, want to point out we have not came up with any solutions about the mass killings that have happened in the U.S. with gun violence? We did however condemn the Confederate Flag and what it represents... we did that back in 2014 for anyone who cares about Baptists history.
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Old 11-14-2017, 02:20 PM
Bob Seger Bob Seger is offline
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I am assuming you are referring to Southern Baptists?
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Old 11-14-2017, 06:54 PM
Bob Seger Bob Seger is offline
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lol....Never mind the question...Now that I know who you are, it really doesn't matter..
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Old 11-15-2017, 10:09 AM
mr.fundamental mr.fundamental is offline
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I understand... Bob it is hard to look in the mirror. I am referring to the Southern Baptist. Facts are facts my friend... I agree it is in a sad state, but the good news it can change.
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Old 11-15-2017, 11:31 AM
Bob Seger Bob Seger is offline
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Well, it's really not hard to figure out the demise of Southern Baptists...But you would never be able to see it, so I will not waste my time...
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Old 11-15-2017, 12:21 PM
mr.fundamental mr.fundamental is offline
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That is sad, Mr. Seger. I would value your opinion, I might disagree with it, but none the less value you it. I must confess I love being a Baptist, so how we can improve is important to me.
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Old 11-15-2017, 08:30 PM
Bob Seger Bob Seger is offline
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Who said that I wasn't a Baptist as well?

But I'm not going to get into it....Soooo, it'll just have to remain sad.
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Old 11-16-2017, 11:13 AM
mr.fundamental mr.fundamental is offline
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I never said anything that you were not a Baptist. I would love for you to think about my denomination if you are not. Let me warn you though, Baptists are generally not liked. We were the first to push for the seperation of Church and State in the founding of the country. The reason being is that many of my fellow brothers and sisters were hung in Virginia, when they had an official state church, they would only allow their people to speak about salvation. Well, that did not sit well with the Baptists so we went to the streets to speak of salvation. We were prosecuted and hung. We pride ourselves on being mission oriented and try to help our neighbor whenever and wherever we can. There is a facebook page that shows our efforts in the Baptists Global Response. We are still trying to rebuild in Texas and in Puerto Rico. I would recommend checking it out.

Baptists also believe in the priesthood of the believer, meaning that through Jesus Christ, we can talk to God. Not because of the actions we have done, for we are sinners, but for what Christ has done for us.

Baptists also have a firm independence streak because of this.

Baptists believe God can speak to him or her in a variety of ways including but not limited too, the Gospel.

Now the for the Gospel, depending on which Baptist Church you go to you will receive a variety of Bibles being used... everything from the King James Version, New International Version, English Standard Version. I have been to a variety of Baptists churches across the state and seen the above used.

Baptists are controversial to say the least, we took a stand against raising the confederate flag. Baptists in 2014 condemned the act of the flying the flag because it is a stumbling block to the Great Commission.

We normally get our literature out of Nashville, Tennessee with a company called Lifeway.

Now, that you have some background of a Baptist, in case you are not, here is why I have said we have lost our way. WE as a denomination in my view wish for a theocracy now and no longer independent. WE would rather get into the political realm instead of doing Mathew 23 or Mathew 28. It is my personal fear that we are luke warm for Jesus, instead we have made this image of Him that goes against what He has said and done.

I will give you an example... the American Flag in a sanctuary.

Why do we have this in God's Holy Place? There are to be no idols. It is sad

Why do we have pictures of Jesus?

There are to be no graven images.

We hold up marriage as an instution of man and woman, yet it is not sacred, divorce rates are the same between us and non-believers.

We claim we are pro-life; yet, WE as a denomination do not push for healthcare for all
we have no stance on gun violence other than what is perceived as just get more guns.

The world needs US to be a light to show them the way to JESUS! WE HAVE LOST OUR WAY!!!
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Old 01-17-2018, 11:55 PM
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Southern Baptists do believe they are to become involved in government. They believe they are to vote in elections responsibly, vetting each candidate, and they would never support one who promised to further abortion or gay rights. Now, that is not to say that some who claim to be a Christian and a Southern Baptist wouldn't vote for candidates who're sworn to propagate abortion and gay rights anyway, but in such instances there are only two possibilities. One, in a state of open rebellion they vote for those candidates anyway, and suffer loss of reward, or Two, they're not really saved.

The separation of Church and state means that it is the state which is precluded from intervening in Church matters, not the reverse of which, that being Christians taking an active part in self governing themselves. We need as many Christian men in government as we can possibly get.

On displaying the American flag inside the Church sanctuary; the only reason I can think of not to do it is because government has taken to the foolhardy practice of overruling God's law. Therefore in many respects I am ashamed of government. We have embraced abominations such as in the case of legalizing abortion, and officially recognizing homosexuality and granting protected class status to homosexuals. To a Christian the flag is no idol, and a picture (though I do agree that Christians ought not to have any picture or representation of The Lord, framed or otherwise) a picture is certainly not a graven image. Nonetheless, I believe it is perfectly okay to display the American flag in Church.

But don't take my word for it:
Russell D. Moore dean of the School of Theology at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, "he understands that some might be prone to make patriotism an idol, but doesn’t believe such a threat warrants the flag’s removal.

“The flag can prompt the church to pray for and honor leaders,” he wrote. “The flag can prompt us to remember that national identity is important but transitory… There is no need to play “Rapture the Flag.”


In your calling for state sponsored health care on moral grounds, it is you who are actually advocating for the dissolution of the separation of Church and State. The state is supposed to steer clear of Church purview, which of course is God's law. You either want separation, or you don't. We can't or shouldn't, have both. And nobody EVER got turned away from the hospital before ObamaCare. Those poor folks were cared for. Now however, it's the poor who get the Cadillac care, and those who actually do pay for coverage and treatment? They are forced many times to choose not to go to the doctor because even though they now pay $20,000 per family of 4 for health concerns, their copays and deductibles are so high they're never or rarely actually met. So, what care they do get, they pay for out of pocket. Cash money. Call me whatever, that's not fair. In fact it's state enforced extortion.

If there were no guns, likely just as many would be killed by the sword. Marriage/divorce rates are personal failings, not particularly the Church. Not to in any way excuse it, and though I do agree that Church teachings in that area fall short, divorce rates have always been high in every age.

As recently as 1990, on Sunday mornings in my city; Almost every front door opened up, and families all loaded up and went to Sunday School and Church. Not these days, and I agree that such is a national and local shame. Frankly, many of our problems are directly linked to what can only be described as a plague of national apostasy. We have turned our backs on God Almighty, and we are paying a heavy price for doing so. I believe things are about to get much worse.

So, if you don't mind too terribly my asking; how is it that the Church is to advocate for 'healthcare for all' and gun control, without getting involved in government? And why would it be okay for the Church to advocate for those two things and lay off opposing abortion and gay rights?
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Old 01-20-2018, 12:21 PM
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^^ Tic Tock mr.tvtimeout. Today marks three days of silence and here I thought you were all gung-ho on enlightening the folks.
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Old 01-23-2018, 12:45 PM
mr.fundamental mr.fundamental is offline
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Originally Posted by TheRealThing View Post
Southern Baptists do believe they are to become involved in government. They believe they are to vote in elections responsibly, vetting each candidate, and they would never support one who promised to further abortion or gay rights. Now, that is not to say that some who claim to be a Christian and a Southern Baptist wouldn't vote for candidates who're sworn to propagate abortion and gay rights anyway, but in such instances there are only two possibilities. One, in a state of open rebellion they vote for those candidates anyway, and suffer loss of reward, or Two, they're not really saved.

The separation of Church and state means that it is the state which is precluded from intervening in Church matters, not the reverse of which, that being Christians taking an active part in self governing themselves. We need as many Christian men in government as we can possibly get.

On displaying the American flag inside the Church sanctuary; the only reason I can think of not to do it is because government has taken to the foolhardy practice of overruling God's law. Therefore in many respects I am ashamed of government. We have embraced abominations such as in the case of legalizing abortion, and officially recognizing homosexuality and granting protected class status to homosexuals. To a Christian the flag is no idol, and a picture (though I do agree that Christians ought not to have any picture or representation of The Lord, framed or otherwise) a picture is certainly not a graven image. Nonetheless, I believe it is perfectly okay to display the American flag in Church.

But don't take my word for it:
Russell D. Moore dean of the School of Theology at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, "he understands that some might be prone to make patriotism an idol, but doesn’t believe such a threat warrants the flag’s removal.

“The flag can prompt the church to pray for and honor leaders,” he wrote. “The flag can prompt us to remember that national identity is important but transitory… There is no need to play “Rapture the Flag.”


In your calling for state sponsored health care on moral grounds, it is you who are actually advocating for the dissolution of the separation of Church and State. The state is supposed to steer clear of Church purview, which of course is God's law. You either want separation, or you don't. We can't or shouldn't, have both. And nobody EVER got turned away from the hospital before ObamaCare. Those poor folks were cared for. Now however, it's the poor who get the Cadillac care, and those who actually do pay for coverage and treatment? They are forced many times to choose not to go to the doctor because even though they now pay $20,000 per family of 4 for health concerns, their copays and deductibles are so high they're never or rarely actually met. So, what care they do get, they pay for out of pocket. Cash money. Call me whatever, that's not fair. In fact it's state enforced extortion.

If there were no guns, likely just as many would be killed by the sword. Marriage/divorce rates are personal failings, not particularly the Church. Not to in any way excuse it, and though I do agree that Church teachings in that area fall short, divorce rates have always been high in every age.

As recently as 1990, on Sunday mornings in my city; Almost every front door opened up, and families all loaded up and went to Sunday School and Church. Not these days, and I agree that such is a national and local shame. Frankly, many of our problems are directly linked to what can only be described as a plague of national apostasy. We have turned our backs on God Almighty, and we are paying a heavy price for doing so. I believe things are about to get much worse.

So, if you don't mind too terribly my asking; how is it that the Church is to advocate for 'healthcare for all' and gun control, without getting involved in government? And why would it be okay for the Church to advocate for those two things and lay off opposing abortion and gay rights?
I don't mind you asking questions: I will respond when I have time... what I will ask right now is if you would pray for the school shooting today and our sister state of Alaska. TIA
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Old 01-23-2018, 01:04 PM
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I got a few minutes... things are about to get alot worse... greed is everywhere. That is what we are really talking about with healthcare, shops opening on Sunday, tax laws, welfare, both corporate and individual, environmental standards, "news" stations, abortion, gay marriage, murder, divorce...

The American Dream and the Christian Dream are two totally separate things.

Why did Jesus who only had a three year ministry spend so much time talking about money, he spent more time talking about money then even Heaven or ****.

Now could you imagine trying to bring back the year of jubliee? Could you imagine if everyone sold all of their possessions and follow Christ? Could you imagine you just gave away so no one had need.

Then what would be the purpose of gay marriage... remember they wanted the same tax breaks and have all the legal rights that come with that...

what would be the purpose of an abortion, financially, it makes no difference at that point

why would you murder your neighbor, you have everything you need, would you need a gun?

would stores be open on sunday... no what would be the point

would people need welfare... no because there would be no need

would there be taxes... what would you tax

Now is that the American Dream? Lord no, it is communism or socialism depends on who owns the things.

Now to your questions...
Baptist Health group is how we do it. Do we have a hospital near you? That is a start. Gun Control... you could calm being non-violent... Martin Luther King Jr. (even though he used politics to get the Civil Rights Bill passes... he was Baptist minister)...I got to go.
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Old 01-23-2018, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by mr.fundamental View Post
I got a few minutes... things are about to get alot worse... greed is everywhere. That is what we are really talking about with healthcare, shops opening on Sunday, tax laws, welfare, both corporate and individual, environmental standards, "news" stations, abortion, gay marriage, murder, divorce...

The American Dream and the Christian Dream are two totally separate things.

Why did Jesus who only had a three year ministry spend so much time talking about money, he spent more time talking about money then even Heaven or ****.

Now could you imagine trying to bring back the year of jubliee? Could you imagine if everyone sold all of their possessions and follow Christ? Could you imagine you just gave away so no one had need.

Then what would be the purpose of gay marriage... remember they wanted the same tax breaks and have all the legal rights that come with that...

what would be the purpose of an abortion, financially, it makes no difference at that point

why would you murder your neighbor, you have everything you need, would you need a gun?

would stores be open on sunday... no what would be the point

would people need welfare... no because there would be no need

would there be taxes... what would you tax

Now is that the American Dream? Lord no, it is communism or socialism depends on who owns the things.

Now to your questions...
Baptist Health group is how we do it. Do we have a hospital near you? That is a start. Gun Control... you could calm being non-violent... Martin Luther King Jr. (even though he used politics to get the Civil Rights Bill passes... he was Baptist minister)...I got to go.



Listen, all I was looking for was how you could defend your liberal views. Don't get me wrong, you're a great Democrat. You will never convince me it's okay to support candidates who openly vow to further the cause and body count, of the abortion on demand crowd.

I don't have the first clue what you were going on about with regard to the American dream and please spare me any further explanation.

To your ongoing obsession with the year of Jubilee. According to Col 2:14 Old Testament ordinances were nailed to the tree along with our Lord.
Colossians 2:14 (KJV) 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Jesus, in living His life and offering Himself to be sacrificed, fulfilled the law in every respect. And in said fulfillment He provided us something no man could ever do in any respect. Reconciliation with God the Father through His shed blood. But Jubilee was attached to the 'Law' as it applied to the Sabbath. Jubilee ceased to be applicable to men as of the day Jesus gave Himself on the cross. After that the age of grace prevailed as 'the law' had, in His death, been satisfied.

Regardless of the sign hanging over your Church door, you are a liberal my friend. If you feel the Lord is speaking to you in telling you to sell all that you have and then give all the proceeds to the poor, you should do it in my view. I personally think that is a ridiculous heresy but I would never tell you not to obey. God gave the New Testament Church explicit instructions on giving.
1 Corinthians 16:2 (KJV)
2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

^^ This is the guideline for the Church and her giving practices.



In no way did I ask you a question as if I had anything to learn. I asked how you could support abortion and gay rights and of course you danced around a bit, slimed me again with your ongoing confusion about Old Testament Law, and then excused yourself. The whole thing was a bit disjointed and meaningless, but better than I was expecting.
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Old 01-24-2018, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by mr.fundamental View Post
I got a few minutes... things are about to get alot worse... greed is everywhere. That is what we are really talking about with healthcare, shops opening on Sunday, tax laws, welfare, both corporate and individual, environmental standards, "news" stations, abortion, gay marriage, murder, divorce...

The American Dream and the Christian Dream are two totally separate things.

Why did Jesus who only had a three year ministry spend so much time talking about money, he spent more time talking about money then even Heaven or ****.

Now could you imagine trying to bring back the year of jubliee? Could you imagine if everyone sold all of their possessions and follow Christ? Could you imagine you just gave away so no one had need.

1) - Then what would be the purpose of gay marriage... remember they wanted the same tax breaks and have all the legal rights that come with that...

2) - what would be the purpose of an abortion, financially, it makes no difference at that point

3) - why would you murder your neighbor, you have everything you need, would you need a gun?

would stores be open on sunday... no what would be the point

would people need welfare... no because there would be no need

would there be taxes... what would you tax

Now is that the American Dream? Lord no, it is communism or socialism depends on who owns the things.

Now to your questions...
Baptist Health group is how we do it. Do we have a hospital near you? That is a start. Gun Control... you could calm being non-violent... Martin Luther King Jr. (even though he used politics to get the Civil Rights Bill passes... he was Baptist minister)...I got to go.
Had a little something to attend to myself this morning but it would seem (barring the dreaded phone ring) that I find myself in possession of more time to address your three cure all's.

As I have already mentioned, your posts offer cover for those who are out ripping and tearing on the social scene. Such that the reason people commit the sins you mention, and which I have bolded above, is owing to some form of need. So therefore (I guess) you tend to blame those with wealth for not rescuing all these folk (whose greatest shortfall would then assumedly be the poor state in which they live,) and not their own depraved sin nature. You cannot find that allege anywhere in the Scriptures old pal. I know for a fact that God has not said anything which approaches that in the Bible. But the idea lends a certain level of mitigation by which poor folks are somehow excused for their having done these things. That again is the view of liberalism.

Hillary Clinton swore her oath by some sort of Arab renaissance years ago, and further proclaimed a new age of brotherhood, heralded by the coming of what she dubbed the 'Arab Spring.' But instead of daffodils, we got nukes, ISIS, and Iranian backed terrorism.

1) - You stated that gays only wanted tax breaks and legal rights. Which of course is the same old threadbare talking point used by the Obama administration when they used the last of their supermajority gun powder to get the repeal of DADT on Barack Obama's desk. They barely managed to get it signed before the next Congress, in December of 2010. Frankly, I thought Republicans' conspicuous lack of a strong defense on the matter, was a reprehensible stain on their public record that they will continue to regret for years to come. But because voters only have the two alternatives, either shameless Dems or spineless Republicans, we Christians have been stuck with settling for the pragmatic approach. We take what we can get for now, and hope that Tea Party and Freedom caucus Republicans, will prevail as much as possible.

Other than my lamenting for the days past in which country loving political officials in office governed with integrity, the extent and basis of my posting philosophy centers around getting things as close to right as I can. And I vote for the best option to that end. Dems on the other hand, try to hold Republicans to a moral standard that no Biblical hero, including King David, could ever hope to meet. And then in saying, "see, Republicans are hypocrites," they go about breaking every rule and law they need to break in order to win.

But back to your statement, which was secular humanistic blather. Gays live in a state of abomination, which is more than clearly forbidden in Scripture. And one for which Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed. And by way of remembrance, after the great flood, The Lord had already promised not to destroy all flesh again, remember that? Genesis 9:15 (KJV)
15 And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.

Nevertheless after the flood, God did destroy Sodom and Gomorrah. Now, I have heard the disagreement from liberals who violently deny The Lord's reason for the utter destruction of Sodom. They say the destruction by fire and brimstone was for all sins being committed and not for just the sake of homosexuality. A position I can accept only in part, and then only in the sense that "he who breaks the law in one part, is guilty of the whole law." But why would God spare the rest of the world outside the city limits of Sodom and Gomorrah, when as everybody knows, the rest of the world was just as guilty of the general state of sin as Sodom? God would not be just for judging Sodom and letting everybody else slide, if they were all the same now would He? No, the outlying qualifier here as was clearly stated, was the grievous sin of rampant homosexuality. That and the fact that the local government had codified a code in support of that particular sin. In other words, spelled out rights, and taxes, and benefits, not unlike we have here in the US. And as such was clearly implicated as the reason for their destruction. So, wwing to the nation killing onerosity of homosexuality, The Lord did not in my view, want such unbridled acceptance of homosexuality to spread across the lands.

I've heard you defend homosexuality, I've not heard you condemn it yet.

2) - I don't know what you're trying to say about why people get abortions. But I can tell you why for the most part, that they do. They do it because abortions are as easy to come by, as the dates (and the unprotected sex) that produce the unwanted little babies in the first place. Planned Parenthood will pay for as many abortions as one would ever need. The practice of abstinence, God's plan, is these days laughed at in every quarter. So you want to put the blame where it really belongs? Start advocating for godly behavior by the inhabitants of this land where that applies to a wide open sex life. And if that falls through the Daddies of all these babies should, (under existing law) at least support those babies, and if there was anything to them at all, they'd marry the Mommies. It's called taking the responsibility for one's own action.

You'd rather to further and empower these wanton progenitors by selling all that you have, declaring Jubilee, and just send them out to do it all over again as soon as the lady in question feels better. That about right?

3) - Murder a neighbor. What did Abel have that Cain did not? Why did Cain murder Abel. Jealousy and rebelliousness, not a lack of money or stuff.

It's a ridiculous argument proven wrong millions of times across time.
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Old 02-01-2018, 08:08 PM
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^^ Hello? mr.tvtimeout? You still there?

Not wanting to sound too harsh, but what ever your Church is they aren't Southern Baptist. They might have been at one time, but if they truly believe the way you say they do, they are Southern Baptist no longer.
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Old 02-16-2018, 01:20 PM
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Well, so many comments to make, I will just say "Love God with all of your heart, mind, and spirit" and second "Love your neighbor as yourself".
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Old 02-18-2018, 02:50 AM
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^^ I'll not pretend that I fully understand your argument. But yeah, that's a good place to start alright. And I will just say this.
1) The sin of homosexuality though not unforgivable, ensnares one in a particularly grievous and rather inescapable trap. Once a person falls prey to that sin, they are for practical purposes in dire jeopardy. Not because they are worse than anybody else, but because the bondage associated with that sin is a notably strong one.
2) Generally speaking, people don't get abortions because of an abundance or a lack of money. And while we're on the subject, money is not the root of all evil. It is the love of money, that is the root of all evil. People get abortions for any number of rather indefensible reasons, because they are embarrassed to be pregnant outside of marriage, or, they don't want to be burdened with the responsibility of raising the child, and others. And though it is a very big deal to take a life, some people get abortions with no more compunction than one might have in swatting a fly.
3) Why did Cain slay Abel? Both of them had everything they needed, and BTW, you of course realize that Cain didn't have an AR15, right? Cain murdered his own brother because he was jealous that God had rejected his offering while accepting that of Abel. Cain used a rock or a garden implement or who knows what? But Abel could not have been any more dead if Cain had put a bazooka round in his ear. Murder according to God if I understand it, arises from the depths of the human heart. Not from the barrel of a gun. I know the Lord condemns murder, never seen where He condemns the swords, or darts, or guns that people across the ages have used to commit murders. Even the rock that David picked up and put in his sling with which to slay Goliath the Philistine giant, could be characterized as a deadly weapon.
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