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Old 01-22-2017, 09:31 PM
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Default Hey Dad - Football is a Lie
You think - I will put him in football and he will learn respect and teamwork... maybe. But beware. Football may be what distracts your son from all that matters. Don't buy the lie. I had two sons dedicated to the sport. And by most measures they were awesome. Sacks, blocks, big scores and big numbers - they did it all. But to what end?

Trust me dad. Take all the time you would have your son practice "hitting them in the mouth" and get him to read to you out loud. Teach him to understand literature and forget a sport that hands out concussions and teaches them to a locker room culture that will defeat them in life not propel them forward. Sure, there are exceptions - Jeffery Canady's and Ben Lakes who rise above it. But for the masses - football is a failure socially and ethically.
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Old 01-22-2017, 09:53 PM
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Huh??????????
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Old 01-22-2017, 10:19 PM
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They was just brought up in the wrong system.
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Old 01-22-2017, 11:38 PM
Single Wing 77 Single Wing 77 is offline
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Originally Posted by Football1 View Post
You think - I will put him in football and he will learn respect and teamwork... maybe. But beware. Football may be what distracts your son from all that matters. Don't buy the lie. I had two sons dedicated to the sport. And by most measures they were awesome. Sacks, blocks, big scores and big numbers - they did it all. But to what end?

Trust me dad. Take all the time you would have your son practice "hitting them in the mouth" and get him to read to you out loud. Teach him to understand literature and forget a sport that hands out concussions and teaches them to a locker room culture that will defeat them in life not propel them forward. Sure, there are exceptions - Jeffery Canady's and Ben Lakes who rise above it. But for the masses - football is a failure socially and ethically.
I could not disagree more. Then again it's all about what you hope to gain from football. If it is a college scholarship then 99% of folks out there will be let down. I personally came from a fatherless home and we moved once a year because we couldn't make rent. I was the first and still only one in my immediate family to graduate from high school. Almost all of my siblings and cousins have struggled with drug addiction and alchohism. The two things I credit with me being able to rise above that are Jesus Christ and the football coaches who invested in me and taught me the value of hard work and dedication, that I needed to depend on others and I needed to be dependable myself. Football taught me that the real world doesn't care what your last name is, or where you came from. It only cares if you can perform and get the job done. I'm just stating that not all experiences are like yours when it comes to football. If I ever have a son, I will most definitely encourage him to play. As far as concussions go, I've been playing and watching high school football for the better part of 20 years. I've seen less than 10 kids get a concussion. Just my opinion though, I'm sorry you had a bad experience.
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Old 01-23-2017, 06:55 AM
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I know it sounds like blasphemy. I played and coached for years including college. Met many great people. My sons had good coaches and got college offers from big schools. Still, from my own personal experience - looking back on my time and money invested in the game if I had it to do over I personally would not have done it. As such, I thought I would share that with other dads. Take it for what its worth. My opinion and a quarter will not get you a cup of coffee. But it is based on many years of seeing young men injured both physically and ethically at the hands of Uncle Football.
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Old 01-23-2017, 07:50 AM
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It doesn't sound like blasphemy at all. High school sports are diverse in their experiences and polarizing to the point of being potentially the athlete's first experience with drugs or finding God in their life.

I think the key to dealing with this is objectivity, and that's more difficult than it sounds.

Ideally football is a tool used to teach life lessons, such as tenacity and never giving up in your search for a win. The problem is, when to learn to give up. You want to give your best effort, but stop before that effort is harmful or deadly to the player.

The one thing that I absolutely cannot abide by is watching a father living vicariously through his son and football. I have seen a lot over my lifetime, and actually saw a parent refuse water to their child because of a poor performance.

I should've kept my mouth shut because intervening that one time made little to no difference in the scheme of things. But I didn't.
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Old 01-23-2017, 08:13 AM
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Get off the football message board then. My career and life is rooted in a foundation of things learned from football. Dad made sacrifices to coach me back then and those lessons carried me thru life to become a coach and influence the lives of other in a positive way. I'm sorry your experience sucked but maybe the change you are looking for needs to start with you. Football has probably saved more lives than destroyed them when you think of all the wayward youth with no father figures who looked at their coach for that figure. Did some of them fail? Yes. More of them didn't.
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Old 01-23-2017, 08:42 AM
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This has been a huge struggle for me...I've coached for 18 years, 7 as a head coach 2 in college...I have 2 boys that I don't think I will let play football. I have had a lot of injuries that has taken a lot of my quality of life....only through the grace of God have I made it this far in life. I had over 10 concussions that have been documented (probably many more that are undocumented). Football has given me a lot but at the same time it has taken a lot from me. I don't agree that football distracts you from life and what is important...in fact it helped me realize how to lead my life in the right way...perseverance, team work, dedication, love for those who you work with and much much more. However, the things I suffer from on a daily basis is too much for me to ignore and to put that on my children would be negligence. I love them too much to have them to go through what I am now.
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Old 01-23-2017, 09:09 AM
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That aggressive posture you are taking no doubt is a fine example of football lessons in action. Be aggressive, be violent, win! Well, those are the great lessons of football. Simply put, as for me, I believe there are safer more productive ways for father and son to invest their time in the brief years of childhood that we get with them. I realize it is not a popular point of view. But it is my point of view. And I will freely share it as I see fit.
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Old 01-23-2017, 09:13 AM
TheHotSnakes TheHotSnakes is offline
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Originally Posted by Football1 View Post
I know it sounds like blasphemy. I played and coached for years including college. Met many great people. My sons had good coaches and got college offers from big schools. Still, from my own personal experience - looking back on my time and money invested in the game if I had it to do over I personally would not have done it. As such, I thought I would share that with other dads. Take it for what its worth. My opinion and a quarter will not get you a cup of coffee. But it is based on many years of seeing young men injured both physically and ethically at the hands of Uncle Football.
Football will never give you back what you put into it. There are possible lessons to be taught, but no one will ever get an equal return of what they put into football. That's playing or coaching. The lessons very well might stick with you for a lifetime, but those same lessons could be learned in just about any other activity.

I love football and just about everything about it, but I fully understand and partially agree with you on this.
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Old 01-23-2017, 09:18 AM
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I Would say it's what your expectations are , my oldest son is a senior and some of the best memories we've had-over the years have been on a football or baseball field a basketball court . High fives when the win hugs when he lost it teaches them discipline, it teaches how to work with people how to compete keeps them busy and out of trouble. That's my experience and there's absolutely nothing wrong with kids not playing sports if they choose not to but to call football a lie seems far fetched , maybe you had different expectations or maybe some bad experiences. I want my kids to have it better than I do and there kids to have it better than them and sports football particularly has has given him the avenues to do that by getting to play in college and get a degree from a liberal arts school that he most likely wouldn't have if he didn't play football, every situation is different and in ours sports especially football has been great to our family
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Old 01-23-2017, 09:37 AM
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Football owes no one anything. It doesn't owe you playing time, or recognition, or a job, or stability in your adult life. If you don't understand the risks you are lying to yourself. If you had 10 documented concussions and kept playing then that is your parent, dr, coaches, and your fault. Stop looking to blame others. If you want to keep your kids out, fine, that's your choice. But the lessons learned from football extend far beyond wins, losses, and playing time. I have suffered great heartache associated with this sport and I wouldn't trade it for anything in the world because it made me who I am. Heartache and problems with this game pale in comparison to what you face in life. Maybe it's better to experience that on the field so you are better prepared. I love the game. I've been through miserable losing seasons and state championship games. Had a kid die during the season (not because of football), seen a coach fired, career ending injuries, and none of it has taken away the joy I have felt when a young man, and good dad, comes back and tells me how much he wishes he could play this sport again.
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Old 01-23-2017, 09:55 AM
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Do you feel the same of basketball and baseball. Statistically speaking injuries are as frequent. Just wondering, because basketball is #1, Football #2, Soccer #3 and Baseball #4 in national study on high school injuries.
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Old 01-23-2017, 10:12 AM
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Ghost , it certainly sounds like you are one of the positive components of this sport. I hope you can understand I am simply offering perspective from a man who at 45 years of age has experienced this sport from every angle for most of my life. If I were a 25 year old man today with a 7 year old facing thousands of hours and dollars to invest it simply would not be in football.

There are two basic reasons I have arrived at this conclusion. First is injuries. No other sport exposes a young man to such severe injuries on a frequent basis. I cannot count the number of players I have seen deal with not only concussions, but torn ACL torn rotator cuffs back problems and more. Often for a lifetime. It is simply not worth the risk when there are alternative Sports and activities where this time could be more safely invested.

Second has to do with the culture of football. Loud aggressive coaches and parents are the norm. It is accepted and even expected at times. Locker rooms are full of Filth and vulgarity and often unchecked buy leaders of the program. Cheating is taught. We teach our linemen how to hold and no one gets in trouble for using steroids. This is all counterproductive for a meaningful and peaceful life.

Years ago I took my son to a camp at Appalachian State University. I watched an offensive lineman coach yell and cuss for 3 hours at my son and thought it was a natural normal part of the sport. We attended dozens of camps over the years and it was the same at all of them. Why I allowed it remains a mystery to me. I manage a team of six professionals who closed millions of dollars a business every year and I have never raised my voice to any of them ever. When I'm tempted to go into football mode I remind myself that what I learned in that sport does not work in Corporate America. If I screamed at an employee "this proposal is wrong", they would think I was a nut. But in football that's normal. Why is that?

The beauty of America is we all get to choose how we invest our time and money. I just hope more dads will spend time in the fall with their sons walking, riding mountain bikes, visiting museums, working out together, reading a book and discussing it together, and mutually enjoying time together. But thats just me.
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Old 01-23-2017, 10:29 AM
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It sounds to me like the issue here was or is balance.

Football has given me and my family more than I can ever say, but there was always a sense of balance.

All of those things you said about more dad's doing in the fall can all be still be done during football season. Truth be told, I'd say football allows for more of these things than any other team sport out there due to their being no travel/aau seasons.

I love football, but I (along with my grandfather, father and other relatives who have gotten so much from the sport and other sports) love my hobbies (my favorites include my wife and little girls) a whole heck of a lot more.
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Old 01-23-2017, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Football1 View Post
That aggressive posture you are taking no doubt is a fine example of football lessons in action. Be aggressive, be violent, win! Well, those are the great lessons of football. Simply put, as for me, I believe there are safer more productive ways for father and son to invest their time in the brief years of childhood that we get with them. I realize it is not a popular point of view. But it is my point of view. And I will freely share it as I see fit.
Did you just get back from the women's march in DC???
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Old 01-23-2017, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by jumperdogpete View Post
Did you just get back from the women's march in DC???
The culture of football: Exhibit A.
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Old 01-23-2017, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Ghostofjoey View Post
Football owes no one anything. It doesn't owe you playing time, or recognition, or a job, or stability in your adult life. If you don't understand the risks you are lying to yourself. If you had 10 documented concussions and kept playing then that is your parent, dr, coaches, and your fault. Stop looking to blame others. If you want to keep your kids out, fine, that's your choice. But the lessons learned from football extend far beyond wins, losses, and playing time. I have suffered great heartache associated with this sport and I wouldn't trade it for anything in the world because it made me who I am. Heartache and problems with this game pale in comparison to what you face in life. Maybe it's better to experience that on the field so you are better prepared. I love the game. I've been through miserable losing seasons and state championship games. Had a kid die during the season (not because of football), seen a coach fired, career ending injuries, and none of it has taken away the joy I have felt when a young man, and good dad, comes back and tells me how much he wishes he could play this sport again.
Maybe you didn't read that I have been coaching for 18 years...itís been well over 20 years since I have played...do you think they had the information about concussions then...NO! If they did...I would have stopped. I think you have chip on your shoulder for NO reason. We are discussing the sport and what it gives and takes away...you are looking at it as if someone should be a castaway if they speak against football. I love the game too...it's in my blood...to write that post was hard for me...but it is also reality. Reality that kids are getting hurt and mislead (like I was) to thinking that football injuries will not affect you later in life...especially head injuries...we KNOW better now...you canít INGNORE the problemÖif we do it is wrong. We have to look how we can make this game safer...if we don't our great game WILL perish. You would be foolish to think otherwise.
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Old 01-23-2017, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Gitback Coach View Post
The culture of football: Exhibit A.
So you went also??
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Old 01-23-2017, 11:17 AM
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This is one dad's opinion. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. My opinion of the game and the lessons and opportunities it does and has offered to my family could not be further from yours. My father played. I played. My sons play currently both in high school and college. I asked them many times if they really wanted to play the game. I never wanted them to feel forced to play. I offered other options that many consider much more fun. Fishing, hunting, other sports, the list goes on. Their response every time..."No dad I like playing. Squats and running suck but I like playing".

I would not trade the time I have spent with my family around the game of football for anything...besides my kids are straight A students but I confident they do not understand literature....no one understands literature.

That's my opinion.
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Old 01-23-2017, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by WhyLie View Post
Do you feel the same of basketball and baseball. Statistically speaking injuries are as frequent. Just wondering, because basketball is #1, Football #2, Soccer #3 and Baseball #4 in national study on high school injuries.
The example I gave of the parent refusing water to their child was actually a basketball mother of mine, and her daughter was my starting point guard. So to put it simpler, yes, I do feel the same way about all sporting injuries. It just seems like that football is more accepted. We sit in the stands and yell for tackles and we reward hard physicality. We don't tend to do that as much with the other sports.

I'm like Bub Lewis; this is really difficult for me because I eat and breath football! I LOVE high school sports. I can; however, understand Football1s perspective.


Originally Posted by jumperdogpete View Post
So you went also??
You continue to prove Gitback Coach's point. Do you not see that?
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Old 01-23-2017, 11:33 AM
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There are more injuries in basketball but they are not as severe. All sports have a potential downside especially with poor leadership. But my perspective here is limited specifically to football due to the constant potential for terrible injuries and the culture that creates and reinforces behaviors and attitudes that are negative.
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Old 01-23-2017, 11:47 AM
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Culture is created by people, not a sport.
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Old 01-23-2017, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Football1 View Post
There are more injuries in basketball but they are not as severe. All sports have a potential downside especially with poor leadership. But my perspective here is limited specifically to football due to the constant potential for terrible injuries and the culture that creates and reinforces behaviors and attitudes that are negative.
The behaviors football reinforces are team work, accountability, leadership, determination along with others and yes aggressiveness, which is not bad in my point of view. I can accept the injury point of view, not the attitudes and behaviors point of view. You have had the wrong coaches.
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Old 01-23-2017, 12:39 PM
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If you experience wasn't a good one as a dad I can understand. However there are outstanding coaches out there that love your son as their own. Some coaches are the only father figures that some players have. They are one of the things that helps some of these kids succeed in life. You should have demanded more from your head coach other than wins and loses. Trophy's will collect dust, but the lessons of never give up, laziness is not rewarded, how to be a part of a team, keep going when your not 100% are all things most people use on a daily basis. As for the injuries, you can get hurt getting out of the bed in the morning. I'd hazard a guess that more kids are seriously injured in ATV accidents every year than football. What's all of this talk of vulgarity and steroids? Most programs don't operate that way. Most coaches are no more vulgar than what a person could see on the internet or on a sitcom on channel 27 at night. If a coach give your kid steroids then he should have been fired. If your kid took steroids it was his fault he took them and yours for not knowing. If your son went to colleges that the coach cussed him all the time then he needed to attend another college if that offended you. Personally I never had a coach that cussed at me any point other than a few isolated times. When they did cuss it was not at me but at the situation. Most coaches do not practice this. Most coaches I have seen cuss was more like the few times when you smashed your hand with a hammer and not an everyday thing. I have been a part of a football program for 28 years. Most of the experiences I have had were positive. Football is a conduit for positive things if you choose. Coaches like Tom Larkey, Phillip Haywood and Shawn Thompson to name a few that teach life through football and absolutely love their players like son's.
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thecoacher (01-23-2017)
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Old 01-23-2017, 12:41 PM
Gitback Coach Gitback Coach is offline
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Originally Posted by Ghostofjoey View Post
Culture is created by people, not a sport.
Well, since "people" actually determine and reinforce the rules/traditions of various sports, then yes, by extension, people also create/determine those various sports' respective cultures.

But strip shirtless, paint your torso in any color of choice, pack up your airhorn or cowbell and see how long you last in the gallery at Augusta National. All different sports are accompanied by distinctly separate, accompanying cultures.
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Old 01-23-2017, 12:54 PM
thecoacher thecoacher is offline
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This whole thread is sad. I think that is crazy to paint the whole sport as bad because of your circumstances.
Is football a rough sport? Yes, but it does not mean your son would get hurt. The majority of kids that play do not get seriously hurt. Bumps, bruises, yes but not concussions or torn acl's etc...
I know football is much safer than it was 25 years ago when I played. Equipment advances, new rules and the new ways of tackling have made it much safer.
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Old 01-23-2017, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Gitback Coach View Post
Well, since "people" actually determine and reinforce the rules/traditions of various sports, then yes, by extension, people also create/determine those various sports' respective cultures.

But strip shirtless, paint your torso in any color of choice, pack up your airhorn or cowbell and see how long you last in the gallery at Augusta National. All different sports are accompanied by distinctly separate, accompanying cultures.
I've never been shirtless at a football game, but every other thing that you listed, I am guilty!
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Old 01-23-2017, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by thecoacher View Post
This whole thread is sad. I think that is crazy to paint the whole sport as bad because of your circumstances.
Is football a rough sport? Yes, but it does not mean your son would get hurt. The majority of kids that play do not get seriously hurt. Bumps, bruises, yes but not concussions or torn acl's etc...
I know football is much safer than it was 25 years ago when I played. Equipment advances, new rules and the new ways of tackling have made it much safer.
Safest it's ever been. Absolutely.
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Ghostofjoey (01-23-2017)
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Old 01-23-2017, 02:11 PM
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The game is safer now. We know more than we did then. I guess some validation is needed by some. I have been coaching 20 years and played D 1 college football. I got knocked out in games and returned to the game in the 80s. Do I blame my coaches or football in general? No. Those guys did the best they knew back then. Where there some deviants in the sport, yes. Some of my coaches were able to weed those elements out sometimes. Are we better now? Yes. No coach I know would/should tolerate any form of hazing. I don't know what culture you are exposed to but if that type of behavior is tolerated it falls right at the feet of those that allow it. Not on the sport. My son plays college football right now and I am so glad he got the opportunity. He's face many disappointments but has persevered and is a better man for it. I don't have a chip on my shoulder, sorry if you are easily offended, but I feel like I have as much a right to defend my sport as you do to attack it. BTW, the position I coach has produced 5 valedectorians in the last 12 years. If you wanna talk culture.
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