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Old 08-01-2020, 08:22 AM
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Default U.S. Gets a Debt Warning From Fitch as Stimulus Battle Rages
The Republican and Democrat Parties are racing to collapse our economy. Democrats are winning the race but both parties are taking us toward the same finish line.

As bad as Trump and the Republicans have been on handling the nation's finances, Joe Biden is promising worse to come with huge tax hikes and even more deficit spending than Trump. When hyperinflation hits this country, there will be no place for any of us to hide and hyperinflation is in our future. We have a culturally and academically semi-literate electorate that have proven themselves to be more gullible with each election combined with candidates who are willing to promise anything to hang on to their fiefdoms. It is a lethal combination.

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U.S. Gets a Debt Warning From Fitch as Stimulus Battle Rages

(Bloomberg) -- One of the world’s major credit-rating companies fired a warning shot regarding the U.S.’s worsening public finances on Friday, just as lawmakers in Washington contemplate spending more to combat the economic fallout from the coronavirus pandemic.

Fitch Ratings revised its outlook on the country’s credit score to negative from stable, citing a “deterioration in the U.S. public finances and the absence of a credible fiscal consolidation plan.” The country’s ranking remains AAA.

“High fiscal deficits and debt were already on a rising medium-term path even before the onset of the huge economic shock precipitated by the coronavirus,” Fitch said. “They have started to erode the traditional credit strengths of the U.S.”

Unemployment has skyrocketed and the U.S. economy just notched up its worst quarter on record, with pandemic-related shutdowns helping drive an annualized gross domestic product contraction of 32.9% in the three-month period through June. And with infections still spreading rapidly in many states, the virus’s damaging impact on output looks set to continue.

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Old 08-01-2020, 04:21 PM
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Dan Bongino put it best, most predictable bankruptcy in the history of the world.
I will add no matter which party is in control.
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Old 08-01-2020, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Hoot Gibson View Post
The Republican and Democrat Parties are racing to collapse our economy. Democrats are winning the race but both parties are taking us toward the same finish line.

As bad as Trump and the Republicans have been on handling the nation's finances, Joe Biden is promising worse to come with huge tax hikes and even more deficit spending than Trump. When hyperinflation hits this country, there will be no place for any of us to hide and hyperinflation is in our future. We have a culturally and academically semi-literate electorate that have proven themselves to be more gullible with each election combined with candidates who are willing to promise anything to hang on to their fiefdoms. It is a lethal combination.
To put it simply, a nation of selfish idiots governed by the most corrupt and incompetent career politicians in the history of the planet. Depression coming at some point, if you love your kids and grandkids pay off your house and learn how to grow your own food and teach them...

Not a question of if, only question is when...
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Old 08-01-2020, 04:40 PM
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^^^And make sure they are fluent in Chinese, Mandarin etc...
Most people won't figure this out until their US and state government issued debit cards are rejected...
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Old 08-02-2020, 11:00 AM
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I agree with everything you said in the posts above, JP. As Margaret Thatcher said, "The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money."

Our economy is heading over a cliff. It will reach the edge quicker with Democrats driving but Republicans are heading in the same direction.

Trump is proposing an additional $1 trillion in "COVID-19 spending" and Democrats are demanding $3 trillion in additional deficit spending. Trump will compromise, Democrats will get close to everything they would get if they were in control, and both sides will declare victory.

Liberals have managed to drag this nation to the left whether they win or lose elections. We have as close to a one party system as we have ever had in this country. We can drink Pepsi or Coke, but regardless of the brand, we are still drinking an artificially colored cola.

We are being fed a steady diet of socialism and socialism Lite, no matter who we elect to public office.
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Old Yesterday, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Hoot Gibson View Post
I agree with everything you said in the posts above, JP. As Margaret Thatcher said, "The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money."

Our economy is heading over a cliff. It will reach the edge quicker with Democrats driving but Republicans are heading in the same direction.

Trump is proposing an additional $1 trillion in "COVID-19 spending" and Democrats are demanding $3 trillion in additional deficit spending. Trump will compromise, Democrats will get close to everything they would get if they were in control, and both sides will declare victory.

Liberals have managed to drag this nation to the left whether they win or lose elections. We have as close to a one party system as we have ever had in this country. We can drink Pepsi or Coke, but regardless of the brand, we are still drinking an artificially colored cola.

We are being fed a steady diet of socialism and socialism Lite, no matter who we elect to public office.
Was there that same warning in 2017 when the budget was passed?

I also want to point out under Obama we were curving the debt and when Bill Clinton was president we were projected to have a surplus.

Now Republicans were in total control, 2016 and 2017. The deficit sours.

I agree with you that military industrial complex is a great model of socialism.

I think the 5th congressional district would be better off with FDR!
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Old Yesterday, 09:46 AM
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I have been a fiscal conservative my entire adult life. If you want to accuse me of hypocrisy, then post links to posts where I have ever supported increasing budget deficits.

You are giving Clinton way too much credit and giving Obama credit where absolutely none is warranted. Republicans in Congress deserve much of the credit for briefly balancing the budget when Clinton as in office, but even then, large budget deficits were forecasted for the years after Clinton was to leave office. **** Morris also deserves credit for convincing Clinton to work with Republicans.
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Old Yesterday, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by mr.fundamental View Post
Was there that same warning in 2017 when the budget was passed?

I also want to point out under Obama we were curving the debt and when Bill Clinton was president we were projected to have a surplus.

Now Republicans were in total control, 2016 and 2017. The deficit sours.

I agree with you that military industrial complex is a great model of socialism.

I think the 5th congressional district would be better off with FDR!
This is a lie.
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Old Yesterday, 10:39 AM
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No argument from me of the impending economic disaster.

The way this pandemic has been handled is likely to reduce the USA from superpower status. Pre-Pandemic Trump tax cuts and bullying of the Fed just to prop up the stock market provides no choice but to print and dole out money to try to keep this country afloat until there is treatment or vaccine.

Of course the only problem right wingers have is that somebody not working might get a handout. The right is never outraged with the amount of money that pours into the pockets of the rich: billions in "Small Business loans" went to the President's friends and family, or even better those same American taxpayer funded loans to Chinese subsidiary companies. (Let that soak in). It will take a **** of a lot of unemployment and food stamps to add up to the corporate welfare that is flowing out of federal govt right now.

But let's be honest with ourselves, Republican leadership has been pushing us off an economic cliff for the past 40 years. Every single GOP administration over that time period has had an economic recession during their watch. Math skills must not be an elephant's strength. Always hard to pay the bills when you cut taxes and spend more and more on the military and/ or war.

Thankfully, we get a Democrat administration following those Republican disasters and the Democrat's "free spending socialism" amazingly turns the country around until our "semi-literate electorate" puts another Republican in office, and we start all over.
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Old Yesterday, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by jetpilot View Post
This is a lie.
https://markets.businessinsider.com/...-9-1028833119#

Obama had slowed deficit spending and the debt growth by 2016. Scary that it took his administration both terms to do that after the 2008 Financial crisis. It may take two decades for us to recover from the mess we are in now.
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Old Yesterday, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Cardfan1 View Post
No argument from me of the impending economic disaster.

The way this pandemic has been handled is likely to reduce the USA from superpower status. Pre-Pandemic Trump tax cuts and bullying of the Fed just to prop up the stock market provides no choice but to print and dole out money to try to keep this country afloat until there is treatment or vaccine.

Of course the only problem right wingers have is that somebody not working might get a handout. The right is never outraged with the amount of money that pours into the pockets of the rich: billions in "Small Business loans" went to the President's friends and family, or even better those same American taxpayer funded loans to Chinese subsidiary companies. (Let that soak in). It will take a **** of a lot of unemployment and food stamps to add up to the corporate welfare that is flowing out of federal govt right now.

But let's be honest with ourselves, Republican leadership has been pushing us off an economic cliff for the past 40 years. Every single GOP administration over that time period has had an economic recession during their watch. Math skills must not be an elephant's strength. Always hard to pay the bills when you cut taxes and spend more and more on the military and/ or war.

Thankfully, we get a Democrat administration following those Republican disasters and the Democrat's "free spending socialism" amazingly turns the country around until our "semi-literate electorate" puts another Republican in office, and we start all over.
You show a very deep misunderstanding of how our capitalist economy works. Just to be absolutely clear, when I use the term semi-literate, I am referring to voters such as yourself.

There is always a choice other than borrowing trillions of dollars or printing so much money that we destroy the value of our currency. The pandemic is no excuse.

However, I do agree that many businesses received a windfall from the $2 trillion stimulus that should not have received it. That always happens when Congress passes big spending bills that nobody reads until after they are passed and signed into law.

No country has ever taxed itself into prosperity, yet liberals seem determined to try that failed strategy over and over.
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Old Yesterday, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Hoot Gibson View Post
You show a very deep misunderstanding of how our capitalist economy works. Just to be absolutely clear, when I use the term semi-literate, I am referring to voters such as yourself.

There is always a choice other than borrowing trillions of dollars or printing so much money that we destroy the value of our currency. The pandemic is no excuse.

However, I do agree that many businesses received a windfall from the $2 trillion stimulus that should not have received it. That always happens when Congress passes big spending bills that nobody reads until after they are passed and signed into law.

No country has ever taxed itself into prosperity, yet liberals seem determined to try that failed strategy over and over.
What were the tax rates from 1940-1950, 1950-1960, 1960-1970, 1970-1980, 1980-1990, 1990-2000, 2000-2010, 2010-2020?

You will find this great talking point from the right that tax is evil and wrong and yet most people want to make America Great Again, referring to the 1950s and some of the 1960s... yet when we look at that time period. You will find higher tax rates, and one out of three were union members. Compare that to now!
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Old Yesterday, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by jetpilot View Post
This is a lie.
Cardfan1 answered it for me...

Swing and a miss... keep trying!
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Old Yesterday, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Hoot Gibson View Post
I have been a fiscal conservative my entire adult life. If you want to accuse me of hypocrisy, then post links to posts where I have ever supported increasing budget deficits.

You are giving Clinton way too much credit and giving Obama credit where absolutely none is warranted. Republicans in Congress deserve much of the credit for briefly balancing the budget when Clinton as in office, but even then, large budget deficits were forecasted for the years after Clinton was to leave office. **** Morris also deserves credit for convincing Clinton to work with Republicans.
Just going to point out that Republicans when in control of all three have not lived up to the promise.... also will point out that when in control of the white house they have not lived up to the promise, in my life time. Granted my life only started with Reagan.

I am fine giving credit to a republican house with a democratic President.
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Old Yesterday, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by mr.fundamental View Post
What were the tax rates from 1940-1950, 1950-1960, 1960-1970, 1970-1980, 1980-1990, 1990-2000, 2000-2010, 2010-2020?

You will find this great talking point from the right that tax is evil and wrong and yet most people want to make America Great Again, referring to the 1950s and some of the 1960s... yet when we look at that time period. You will find higher tax rates, and one out of three were union members. Compare that to now!
The economies of Europe and Japan were decimated by World War II. The U.S. economy had little competition during the 40s and 50s. Had JFK not wisely slashed income tax rates as the European and Japanese came roaring back, this country would have been crippled by the competition.

You must ignore a great deal of history to make such an idiotic case for sky high tax rates being a good thing. The quality of German and Japanese cars caught up and eclipsed that of the so-called Big 3 American auto companies beginning in the late 60s and the combination of higher tax rates, more stringent government regulation, high wage rates, and poor quality almost destroyed our automotive industry.

Ironically, it was an American statistician, Dr. W. Edwards Deming, who the Japanese credit for revolutionizing manufacturing processes with the introduction of statistical process control methods at companies like Toyota. Eventually, the Big 3 began listening to Deming as well, but only after they had fallen far behind the Japanese in quality products.

Answer the question of why Democrats slashed federal income tax rates in the early 60s if high marginal taxes were responsible for the good economic times of the period from 1940 through the early 1960s? Your argument defies logic and the historical record.
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Old Yesterday, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by mr.fundamental View Post
Just going to point out that Republicans when in control of all three have not lived up to the promise.... also will point out that when in control of the white house they have not lived up to the promise, in my life time. Granted my life only started with Reagan.

I am fine giving credit to a republican house with a democratic President.
If you lived through the Reagan years and were not stoned, then you should have realized that Reagan oversaw one of the greatest economic turn arounds in Amerian history. The economy under Nixon, Ford, and Carter was a total disaster, with a high unemployment rate, high interest rates, and a high inflation rate. The misery index was real when Reagan took office and the economy was truly booming when he left office.
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Old Yesterday, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by mr.fundamental View Post
Just going to point out that Republicans when in control of all three have not lived up to the promise.... also will point out that when in control of the white house they have not lived up to the promise, in my life time. Granted my life only started with Reagan.

I am fine giving credit to a republican house with a democratic President.
I have been consistently disappointed with Republicans in Congress since the 1980s because there have been too few fiscal conservatives among them. The only people in Congress who have performed worse than Republicans during my lifetime have been Democrats but the margin between them seems to be shrinking.

Gingrich and the Republican House earned some credit for the temporary balancing of the budget late in Clinton's term. Enacting Republican legislation earned Clinton a second term and allowed him to survive impeachment. He does deserve credit for taking Morris's advice and putting Hillary's left wing agenda on hold to save his own political skin.
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Old Yesterday, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Cardfan1 View Post
https://markets.businessinsider.com/...-9-1028833119#

Obama had slowed deficit spending and the debt growth by 2016. Scary that it took his administration both terms to do that after the 2008 Financial crisis. It may take two decades for us to recover from the mess we are in now.
Liberal site lol...

Barack Obama: Under President Obama, the national debt grew the most dollar-wise. He added $8.588 trillion.
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Old Yesterday, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Hoot Gibson View Post
You show a very deep misunderstanding of how our capitalist economy works. Just to be absolutely clear, when I use the term semi-literate, I am referring to voters such as yourself.

There is always a choice other than borrowing trillions of dollars or printing so much money that we destroy the value of our currency. The pandemic is no excuse.

However, I do agree that many businesses received a windfall from the $2 trillion stimulus that should not have received it. That always happens when Congress passes big spending bills that nobody reads until after they are passed and signed into law.

No country has ever taxed itself into prosperity, yet liberals seem determined to try that failed strategy over and over.
I completely understand this capitalist economy: rich get richer and the poor get poorer and with every crisis we have the divide just continues to grow.

I prefer historically obtuse (I'm referring to voters like you), which among other things, is buying the lie that Republicans are bringing economic stability much less prosperity to all Americans. We have too much evidence proving that isn't true.
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Old Yesterday, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Cardfan1 View Post
I completely understand this capitalist economy: rich get richer and the poor get poorer and with every crisis we have the divide just continues to grow.

I prefer historically obtuse (I'm referring to voters like you), which among other things, is buying the lie that Republicans are bringing economic stability much less prosperity to all Americans. We have too much evidence proving that isn't true.
Nobody said all. But you must have missed all the records set for lowest unemployment for pretty much every group of people in the country right before this idiot pandemic got way overblown. Also try to read up on how many millions got added to welfare rolls and food stamps under Obama. Hint: That Maddow dude won't tell you.
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Old Yesterday, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Hoot Gibson View Post
If you lived through the Reagan years and were not stoned, then you should have realized that Reagan oversaw one of the greatest economic turn arounds in Amerian history. The economy under Nixon, Ford, and Carter was a total disaster, with a high unemployment rate, high interest rates, and a high inflation rate. The misery index was real when Reagan took office and the economy was truly booming when he left office.
Oh Reagan...another slash and spend Republican. He left his recession for H.W. to sort out and costing that dude his second term.
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Old Yesterday, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by jetpilot View Post
Liberal site lol...

Barack Obama: Under President Obama, the national debt grew the most dollar-wise. He added $8.588 trillion.
Might want to read a few liberal sites and get out of the vacuum. Just because Trump says it, doesn't mean it's true. Most likely it isn't.

Trump added $5.2 trillion in one term.
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Old Yesterday, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by jetpilot View Post
Nobody said all. But you must have missed all the records set for lowest unemployment for pretty much every group of people in the country right before this idiot pandemic got way overblown. Also try to read up on how many millions got added to welfare rolls and food stamps under Obama. Hint: That Maddow dude won't tell you.


Trump might beat Obama on this one in term.

Obama was dealing with a national crisis he didn't help create. I didn't like some of his decisions, but he inherited the problem.
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Old Yesterday, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Hoot Gibson View Post
The economies of Europe and Japan were decimated by World War II. The U.S. economy had little competition during the 40s and 50s. Had JFK not wisely slashed income tax rates as the European and Japanese came roaring back, this country would have been crippled by the competition.

You must ignore a great deal of history to make such an idiotic case for sky high tax rates being a good thing. The quality of German and Japanese cars caught up and eclipsed that of the so-called Big 3 American auto companies beginning in the late 60s and the combination of higher tax rates, more stringent government regulation, high wage rates, and poor quality almost destroyed our automotive industry.

Ironically, it was an American statistician, Dr. W. Edwards Deming, who the Japanese credit for revolutionizing manufacturing processes with the introduction of statistical process control methods at companies like Toyota. Eventually, the Big 3 began listening to Deming as well, but only after they had fallen far behind the Japanese in quality products.

Answer the question of why Democrats slashed federal income tax rates in the early 60s if high marginal taxes were responsible for the good economic times of the period from 1940 through the early 1960s? Your argument defies logic and the historical record.
What was that rate slashed to?
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Old Yesterday, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Hoot Gibson View Post
If you lived through the Reagan years and were not stoned, then you should have realized that Reagan oversaw one of the greatest economic turn arounds in Amerian history. The economy under Nixon, Ford, and Carter was a total disaster, with a high unemployment rate, high interest rates, and a high inflation rate. The misery index was real when Reagan took office and the economy was truly booming when he left office.
Turn around from whom? I can pinpoint some things that very interesting for anyone under 100k that started since Reagan. Now I would agree with you anyone on the top 5% life has been good.
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Old Yesterday, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Hoot Gibson View Post
The economies of Europe and Japan were decimated by World War II. The U.S. economy had little competition during the 40s and 50s. Had JFK not wisely slashed income tax rates as the European and Japanese came roaring back, this country would have been crippled by the competition.

You must ignore a great deal of history to make such an idiotic case for sky high tax rates being a good thing. The quality of German and Japanese cars caught up and eclipsed that of the so-called Big 3 American auto companies beginning in the late 60s and the combination of higher tax rates, more stringent government regulation, high wage rates, and poor quality almost destroyed our automotive industry.

Ironically, it was an American statistician, Dr. W. Edwards Deming, who the Japanese credit for revolutionizing manufacturing processes with the introduction of statistical process control methods at companies like Toyota. Eventually, the Big 3 began listening to Deming as well, but only after they had fallen far behind the Japanese in quality products.

Answer the question of why Democrats slashed federal income tax rates in the early 60s if high marginal taxes were responsible for the good economic times of the period from 1940 through the early 1960s? Your argument defies logic and the historical record.
The argument about wages:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/frederi.../#161bb9e76b78
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Old Yesterday, 03:20 PM
mr.fundamental mr.fundamental is offline
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The idea about regulations
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Old Yesterday, 03:21 PM
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I would agree on the poor quality as companies what more for their money and less on the consumer.
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Old Yesterday, 03:28 PM
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https://www.reportlinker.com/automot...gulations.html

regulations seem that everyone is trying to play by the same rules
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Old Yesterday, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Cardfan1 View Post
I completely understand this capitalist economy: rich get richer and the poor get poorer and with every crisis we have the divide just continues to grow.

I prefer historically obtuse (I'm referring to voters like you), which among other things, is buying the lie that Republicans are bringing economic stability much less prosperity to all Americans. We have too much evidence proving that isn't true.
Thank you for proving my point. I may have given you to much credit by asserting that you are semi-literate.

Capitalism has lifted more people out of poverty than all other economic systems combined. The rewards are much greater for those willing to work harder and take more risks than folks like yourself. It is a fair system that rewards people on the basis of ability and effort.

Capitalism has been efficient enough to feed, clothe, and shelter the unskilled, uneducated, and those too lazy to work for their keep, but those elements of our society have grown fat, lazy, and increasingly greedy over the years. Runaway entitlement programs are the reason for our dismal economic future, not those who risk capital and generate the nation's wealth.
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