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Old 06-29-2015, 12:16 PM
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Default God is still in control.
No matter what happens in the world..... God is still and will always be in control.


From John ch. 1 verse 1. (KJV)
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

And Genesis ch. 1 verse 1. (KJV)
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.


Until the end of time that we read about in the book of Revelation.

GOD IS IN CONTROL!!!!!






A gay marriage decision by a court will not alter His plan. As a matter of fact, He knew this would happen before anybody was ever on the earth.



Now the question arises, "If God knew it would happen, then why didn't He stop it".....

I'm so glad you asked...........

Because humans have freewill.

Revelation ch. 3 (KJV)
20: Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear My voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with Me.

This verse proves that God will not force Himself on anybody. God will speak to people, but not 'control' their actions/thoughts.



Our nation is trying their best to turn away from God.
The entire SO, GI & RA society....
Trying to remove the name of God, Jesus, The Holy Ghost and The Bible from everything they can get their hands on.
All of our "Political Correctness" and "Tolerance" movements.



THERE IS A REASON WHY OUR NATION IS FALLING APART!!!!!!!!!

The National debt is close to the highest it's ever been.
Terrorism and Terrorist groups are breeding faster than ever before.
Destructive Weather & Natural Disasters in places that we've never seen before.
Violent Crime rates are insane from Coast to Coast & Border to Border.
Our nation is on the verge of splitting again over racial lines.

GOD WILL NOT BLESS A GODLESS NATION!!!! However, God will bless His people.


This verse is a comfort and the promise God gives us when it comes time that a Christian makes their crossing and the River Jordan.

2 Corinthians ch. 5 (KJV)
8: We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
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Old 06-29-2015, 02:44 PM
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John ch. 3 (KJV)
16: For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

What word 'whosoever' is powerful. That word covers everybody from Adam & Eve to the same people that curse the name of God and say He doesn't exist.


Romans ch. 6 (KJV)
23: For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

God hates sin, not the sinner. I know this to be true because of the verses that are posted above.
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Old 07-01-2015, 11:15 PM
Harry Rex Vonner Harry Rex Vonner is offline
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He is in control but He sure uses a hands off style of management. I've never understood why millions of innocents are murdered through abortion each year but God remains completely silent.
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Old 07-02-2015, 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Harry Rex Vonner View Post
He is in control but He sure uses a hands off style of management. I've never understood why millions of innocents are murdered through abortion each year but God remains completely silent.
That's a good point and something every atheist and liberal in this country has been programmed to ask as a rebuttal when discussing God.

Its this simple...we either have faith for his plan or we don't. It is hard not to question him and his plan as the world continues to see more tragedies, but Job has already answered that question.
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Old 07-02-2015, 07:42 AM
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I don't believe our finite minds can grasp an infinite idea. That's where faith comes into play. And like Harry Rex, my faith has been tested....and tested extremely.

Everybody brings something to the table of life. It's up to us to try and pray for and help those who struggle sometimes.

I've been on both sides of THAT prayer.
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Old 07-02-2015, 09:50 AM
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Why did my parents have three children (two before me & one between me and my sister) not make it out of the womb?

God has a plan.


I take comfort in knowing that I have three siblings in Heaven that will never have to step foot on this earth.


But thank God, for Hebrews ch. 11 ver. 1 (KJV)

Hebrews ch. 11 (KJV)
1: Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.



OH AND BY THE WAY......
EVERY MIRACLE THAT IS DOCUMENTED IN THE BIBLE OCCURS WHEN FAITH IS ENGAGED!!!
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Old 07-02-2015, 10:05 AM
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Good responses from Pulp Fiction and Granny Bear. It is difficult to see the human destruction (abortion), the immorality (same sex marriage and much, much more), the inconsistency of the world around us when everything appears to be merely a roll of the dice and to see God being completely silent and, from all indications, uninvolved and to not lose faith.

I'm pleased that neither poster, both of whom I highly respect, didn't use free will as an answer. My response has always been that, if the evil abortionist is merely using his/her free will, where is the free will for all the innocent babies being slaughtered?

All this isn't as easy as some might think.
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Old 07-02-2015, 10:13 AM
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2 Corinthians ch. 4 (KJV)
18: While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

The blue section of this verse means everything on this earth. From the creation of time until the end of time.

The red section of this verse is talking about eternity.

If you can see it.... it is temporal.
If you can't see it... it is eternal.
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Old 07-02-2015, 03:45 PM
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Pulp, I find it interesting you talk about the nation falling apart now, but you ignore the fact that the nation has already broken apart once, natural disasters have always happened, and our country has been violent since the beginning. Why would God just now decide to get pissed off at our nation and decide to end it all when it's always been bad?
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Old 07-02-2015, 04:20 PM
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To be perfectly honest, I don't look for God to do anything. However, I do expect, probably a mistake, for all these Christians and their leaders to grow a backbone and step up.

The analogy I use is as follows: You plant a fine garden with tomatoes, corn, peppers, etc. in it and then you get on your knees and pray without ceasing for a good harvest. You pray all spring and summer. What will be your harvest? Nothing because you didn't do the needed work to produce a harvest. I firmly believe that God expects us to get off our butts and do the work. In regard to these abominable court decisions in addition to the increasingly amoral atmosphere in this country and world, Christians have done nothing whatsoever, other than orate and whine, to combat the courts, media, entertainment industry, and government schools as the latter group continues to destroy traditional religious tenets and brainwash our younger generation.

Don't believe it? Well, then, why do the "millennials" (as they call them) so overwhelmingly support abortion and same sex marriage? I think we can assume that many, if not most, of them were raised in homes where their parents had traditional beliefs. They were raised, often, in churches which adhered to sacred Christian teachings. They had a strong exposure to Christian tenets. So what changed them? The answer should be obvious. They have been continually exposed to a liberal media, an amoral entertainment industry, abominable and highly suggestive music, and, worst of all, the influence of those in the government schools teaching little of the 3Rs but lots of self esteem, never judge anyone or anything, diversity is great, revisionist American History, no grammar, the white man is to blame for all our problems.

Isn't it time for Christians to do something other than pray for a bailout?
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Old 07-05-2015, 03:53 PM
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I was raised in a "traditional" religious (Baptist) household. We went to church every time the doors opened. The preacher there hollered, he stomped; he pounded the oak pulpit with inspired zeal. You couldn't pay me to walk into a church today. No thanks.

Sure, my aversion to organized religion sometimes upsets my parents, but they remain very steadfast and devout in their own personal faith. Both still attend church regularly and take prominent, active roles in opposing same-sex marriage on "religious grounds." They just do it separately. Mom has now been divorced three times, but she and her fourth husband agree that "the gays" shouldn't be permitted equal marriage rights. An "abomination to Gawd," they say. And no, they have no idea how ironic their bigotry is.

Dad was a little smarter. He and his second wife are faithful church-goers and have simply opted to "not discuss" the fact that the daughter they had together is a lesbian. She and her fiancée don't feel welcome enough to even come home for Xmas. Her parents seem content to fill the void with Fox News, AM radio and other wellsprings of "moral, Christian teachings." All three miniature schnauzers have matching holiday sweaters. Make of that what you will.

So yeah, hard to understand why religious affiliations and church memberships in America are dropping so rapidly, huh?That's a real head-scratcher. Luckily, the more "devout" one is, the more inflexible and intransigent they tend to be, so most are effectively judging and isolating themselves out of existence.

So I guess I would disagree with the claim that "godlessness" and " the liberal media" have undermined our society's religiosity. At least in my experience, constant and widespread exposure to Christian bigotry and misery has compelled me to look elsewhere for fulfillment and so far, so good. So many "believers" seem so bitter, negative and judgmental. Who wants to live like that?

Last edited by Gitback Coach; 07-05-2015 at 03:56 PM. Reason: Typos
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Old 07-05-2015, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Gitback Coach View Post
I was raised in a "traditional" religious (Baptist) household. We went to church every time the doors opened. The preacher there hollered, he stomped; he pounded the oak pulpit with inspired zeal. You couldn't pay me to walk into a church today. No thanks.

Sure, my aversion to organized religion sometimes upsets my parents, but they remain very steadfast and devout in their own personal faith. Both still attend church regularly and take prominent, active roles in opposing same-sex marriage on "religious grounds." They just do it separately. Mom has now been divorced three times, but she and her fourth husband agree that "the gays" shouldn't be permitted equal marriage rights. An "abomination to Gawd," they say. And no, they have no idea how ironic their bigotry is.

Dad was a little smarter. He and his second wife are faithful church-goers and have simply opted to "not discuss" the fact that the daughter they had together is a lesbian. She and her fiancée don't feel welcome enough to even come home for Xmas. Her parents seem content to fill the void with Fox News, AM radio and other wellsprings of "moral, Christian teachings." All three miniature schnauzers have matching holiday sweaters. Make of that what you will.

So yeah, hard to understand why religious affiliations and church memberships in America are dropping so rapidly, huh?That's a real head-scratcher. Luckily, the more "devout" one is, the more inflexible and intransigent they tend to be, so most are effectively judging and isolating themselves out of existence.

So I guess I would disagree with the claim that "godlessness" and " the liberal media" have undermined our society's religiosity. At least in my experience, constant and widespread exposure to Christian bigotry and misery has compelled me to look elsewhere for fulfillment and so far, so good. So many "believers" seem so bitter, negative and judgmental. Who wants to live like that?
While I obviously don't agree with all of what Gitback Coach has to say, I think there is a lot to be learned by a large number of preachers and "church people" from his/her words. Though certainly not a Southern Baptist, I have attended many, large and small, through the years. And, particularly in the smaller ones where the preachers tend to have little formal education in the Holy Scriptures but claim to have been "called", these preachers always struck me as being self appointed executioners whose goal was to scare everyone into adopting his version of truth.

Nonetheless, in today's sermon, the preacher mentioned nothing about the recent supreme court decisions and the continuing slide of morals in this country. His sermon was another in a series on old testament kings. Today he told us about King David. Of course, we have all heard this history lesson several hundred times. All in all, a waste of time.
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Old 07-05-2015, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Harry Rex Vonner View Post
To be perfectly honest, I don't look for God to do anything. However, I do expect, probably a mistake, for all these Christians and their leaders to grow a backbone and step up.

The analogy I use is as follows: You plant a fine garden with tomatoes, corn, peppers, etc. in it and then you get on your knees and pray without ceasing for a good harvest. You pray all spring and summer. What will be your harvest? Nothing because you didn't do the needed work to produce a harvest. I firmly believe that God expects us to get off our butts and do the work. In regard to these abominable court decisions in addition to the increasingly amoral atmosphere in this country and world, Christians have done nothing whatsoever, other than orate and whine, to combat the courts, media, entertainment industry, and government schools as the latter group continues to destroy traditional religious tenets and brainwash our younger generation.

Don't believe it? Well, then, why do the "millennials" (as they call them) so overwhelmingly support abortion and same sex marriage? I think we can assume that many, if not most, of them were raised in homes where their parents had traditional beliefs. They were raised, often, in churches which adhered to sacred Christian teachings. They had a strong exposure to Christian tenets. So what changed them? The answer should be obvious. They have been continually exposed to a liberal media, an amoral entertainment industry, abominable and highly suggestive music, and, worst of all, the influence of those in the government schools teaching little of the 3Rs but lots of self esteem, never judge anyone or anything, diversity is great, revisionist American History, no grammar, the white man is to blame for all our problems.

Isn't it time for Christians to do something other than pray for a bailout?
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Old 07-05-2015, 11:36 PM
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Thank you for the facebook cite. Kay Schwartz has shown more Christian conviction that 99.9% of the ministers, rabbis, and priests in this country. They all need to wake up and, if it isn't already too late, do something courageous for a change.
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Old 07-06-2015, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Harry Rex Vonner View Post
Thank you for the facebook cite. Kay Schwartz has shown more Christian conviction that 99.9% of the ministers, rabbis, and priests in this country. They all need to wake up and, if it isn't already too late, do something courageous for a change.
I hope she has lots of support behind her Wednesday morning .
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Old 07-07-2015, 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted by pjdoug View Post
I hope she has lots of support behind her Wednesday morning .
So do I but, to be honest, I have no confidence in the Christian Community to grow a backbone and take a firm stand. They seem to prefer hiding under their pews while rationalizing to themselves that they are doing "the Lord's work".
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Old 07-07-2015, 09:20 AM
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Exodus ch. 3 (KJV)
13: And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is His name? what shall I say unto them?

14: And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and He said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you



If God calls somebody to do His work, He will provide what is needed. He's never failed to deliver on His promises.
No matter what you do for The Lord in His name..... it has a purpose.

Some people sing and preach.
Some people teach Sunday school.
Some people clean the church building and keep the grounds up.
If you have a desire to work for Him, He will bless it.


I agree with HRV..... Some people do hide under their pews. They will have to answer for that, not me.

God convicted me last year stronger than I've ever felt it........
Our church broadcasts all of our services over UStream and we have two TV's that we use for Bible verses and other visual effects. Nobody was operating both systems full time.
I know He spoke to me and told me to take up that work. And I can say I've done it for over a year now. I don't sit back in my A/V booth and expect to get pats on the back. I do it because God spoke to me and said "DO IT!!!!"

No matter what your talents/gifts/hobbies/profession..... God will find a use for you in His work if you are willing to be used.
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Old 07-07-2015, 10:27 AM
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I always learn from Pulp Fiction's posts. His faith is admirable. I certainly don't have it. I have never felt that, while liberals, anti-Christians, and anti-constitution zealots go around controlling the media, playing hardball to get their people elected and appointed to influential positions in all levels of government, bastardizing anyone who speaks out against their agenda, continually disrupting traditional life, and brainwashing our youth in the government schools, I can't think that some people singing and preaching, some people teaching Sunday School, and some people cleaning the church building and keeping up the grounds is remotely sustaining the fight.

All these fine acts in and around the church property are what is called 'preaching to the choir". I think of them as hiding in the pews.

There is a church in Greenup County, Kentucky that has a sign which is visible to all as they leave the church parking lot. The sign says: "You are entering the mission field". I think very few churches and church people ever really leave their comfort zone to enter the mission field. Battling these evil forces in our courts, in our government (at all levels), in our media sources, and (most of all) in our government schools (kindergarten through graduate school) is where the mission field exists and where the fight is being lost daily. Action clearly speaks louder than words- even when those words are from a fine old hymn.
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Old 07-07-2015, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Harry Rex Vonner View Post
I always learn from Pulp Fiction's posts. His faith is admirable. I certainly don't have it. I have never felt that, while liberals, anti-Christians, and anti-constitution zealots go around controlling the media, playing hardball to get their people elected and appointed to influential positions in all levels of government, bastardizing anyone who speaks out against their agenda, continually disrupting traditional life, and brainwashing our youth in the government schools, I can't think that some people singing and preaching, some people teaching Sunday School, and some people cleaning the church building and keeping up the grounds is remotely sustaining the fight.

All these fine acts in and around the church property are what is called 'preaching to the choir". I think of them as hiding in the pews.

There is a church in Greenup County, Kentucky that has a sign which is visible to all as they leave the church parking lot. The sign says: "You are entering the mission field". I think very few churches and church people ever really leave their comfort zone to enter the mission field. Battling these evil forces in our courts, in our government (at all levels), in our media sources, and (most of all) in our government schools (kindergarten through graduate school) is where the mission field exists and where the fight is being lost daily. Action clearly speaks louder than words- even when those words are from a fine old hymn.
You make some great discussion points HRV.

The world is a terrible place...... it's been that way since Genesis ch. 3. And it will be that way until Revelation ch. 20 ends and Revelation ch. 21 begins.

"The Mission Field" is a great term.
Every Christian (should) have the same "Mission" in life.....
Honor God, Keep His Commandments and labor to see people get Saved.

If that means somebody teaching Sunday School for 50 years.... but they only see one person get Saved in their class..... Then that person had a successful "Mission".

One soul Saved from **** is worth the years of labor for The Lord.



God will not interfere with Freewill. He will knock upon the hearts door and let the lost know where they stand. It's up to them to Accept the free gift of Life.
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Old 07-07-2015, 11:54 PM
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I think our philosophies are a bit different. The 50 year Sunday School teacher who saved one person is fine. However, I believe that Scott Roeder, who probably saved thousands of innocent babies from being murdered by the abortion doctor, George Tiller, and by the women carrying them,accomplished much more. But, of course, that is just my opinion. Roeder certainly fought the enemy in a cesspool of the mission field.
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Old 07-08-2015, 08:01 AM
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Everybody has "something" to bring to the table of life. Whether it's the Sunday school teacher or Roeder fighting in a cesspool.

We are all different, and have different talents.

I find it difficult to place more or less emphasis when an individual is fighting their fight.

No matter how minuscule, a person's best is their best.
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Old 07-08-2015, 12:55 PM
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It was not my intent to lessen the contribution of the Sunday School teacher. His/Her work in saving one person is admirable.

And, for full disclosure, I should identify Scott Roeder for those of you who are not familiar with him. On May 31, 2009, Roeder entered a church attended by America's most infamous late term abortionist, George Tiller, and assassinated Tiller. This act probably saved the lives of thousands of innocent babies from being murdered by Tiller, known as "Killer Tiller", and the women carrying those innocent babies.

Now, I'm sure many, maybe most, of you posters are appalled by the actions of Roeder. I am not. God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah for similar acts of sin and inhumanity. Was Roeder an agent of God? I don't know. And, neither do you. However, we do know that Tiller murdered no more of the innocents.
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Old 07-08-2015, 02:30 PM
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I am familiar with Roeder, but I cannot draw that black and white line as you can Harry Rex.

But in the end, no one can argue with your stats.....Tiller is no longer performing abortions, legal or otherwise.
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Old 07-08-2015, 03:21 PM
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As usual, Granny Bear has me pegged. When it comes to the premeditated murder of our most innocent human beings, I see no gray area whatsoever.
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Old 07-08-2015, 07:58 PM
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There isn't any gray area when it comes to murder.
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Old 07-08-2015, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Granny Bear View Post
There isn't any gray area when it comes to murder.
Maybe I should stick to the term "abortion" rather than using "premeditated murder" to describe abortion although I believe them to be the same. I believe there is no gray area in regard to abortion. On the other hand, I find the "murder" of "Killer" Tiller to be justifiable homicide since it is for the overall good by resulting in the saving of many lives. I see his murder in the same way I see killing in war. His war was against the innocent babies. The fact that his acts were "legal" according to the "law" makes no difference whatsoever. As I have posted before, the longer I am an attorney at law, the more I realize that what is legal and what is moral are quite often not the same- and, apparently, it is getting worse with each passing day and each passing court decision.
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Old 07-09-2015, 08:19 AM
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I couldn't agree more, Harry Rex. And by the way, when I said there was no gray area when it comes to murder, I was referring to abortions.

Did you know that it is statistically safer for mothers to give birth to their babies and then kill them, rather than having an abortion? The infection rate is astronomical in abortions when compared to those in child birth.

I'm just a little cautions when it comes to vigilante law, and going against the accepted law of the land. While some cases I could justify with no problem, others are vague and cloudy. I just think it's a slippery slope.
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Old 07-09-2015, 10:09 AM
Harry Rex Vonner Harry Rex Vonner is offline
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Originally Posted by Granny Bear View Post
I couldn't agree more, Harry Rex. And by the way, when I said there was no gray area when it comes to murder, I was referring to abortions.

Did you know that it is statistically safer for mothers to give birth to their babies and then kill them, rather than having an abortion? The infection rate is astronomical in abortions when compared to those in child birth.

I'm just a little cautions when it comes to vigilante law, and going against the accepted law of the land. While some cases I could justify with no problem, others are vague and cloudy. I just think it's a slippery slope.

Very true, Granny Bear. Vigilantism is a steep and slippery slope. Justification is in the eyes of the beholder and that is dangerous. We form our deep held convictions through our personal experiences and belief system. Nonetheless, I am perfectly in agreement with the act of Scott Roeder. Those who see preborn babies as blobs would disagree. It is reassuring to know that, mainly because of DNA, conclusive medical evidence, as well as the unquestionable spiritual evidence, is on my side.
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