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Old 10-10-2017, 03:12 PM
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Default Water in Wine or Grape juice?
These scriptures are about Noah after the flood.... as in the Noah of Noah's Ark. This specifically says Noah was drunk. Noah drank of the wine to get drunk. However Noah was human, not perfect.

Genesis ch. 9 (KJV)

20: And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard:

21: And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.

22: And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.

23: And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness.

24: And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.



These scriptures are about the famous Water in to Wine passage. No where after these verses does it say anybody became drunk from this win.

John ch. 2 (KJV)

3: And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.

4: Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.

5: His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it.

6: And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece.

7: Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim.

8: And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it.

9: When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew; ) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,

10: And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine;
and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.




I realize there are other verses about Wine in the Bible. You can believe what you want and interpret the verses how ever you want.... but I will say, if you feel even a tad bit condemned about it, then you know it's wrong. Sin condemns. The acts of sin are just actions, it's the intent of. The act of Murder is a sin, actually it's in the Top 10. A true self-defense situation or doing what needs to be done during war time is a different intent.
I felt like somebody needed to see this. This thought hit me earlier today and felt the need to post it. I know when the Lord is telling me to do something cause my brain and thoughts become very clear and precise about certain topics. Hope this helps whoever needed to see it.
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Old 10-10-2017, 03:54 PM
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I would love to get TRT in on this discussion.

I am not preaching this for anybody, this is just MY opinion.

There was no distilling process in Noah's time; consequently the wine was of a fermented process and not distilling. Therefore the alcohol content isn't close to what it is today. At one point in the Bible, it states that it took a day's drinking to get drunk. I can see Noah sweating in the sun while working on the ark and drinking a full day. Remember, water was a hot commodity back then. Not all of it was drinkable, so milk and wine was the drink of the day.

That's my 2 cents!

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Old 10-10-2017, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Granny Bear View Post
I would love to get TRT in on this discussion.

I am not preaching this for anybody, this is just MY opinion.

There was no distilling process in Noah's time; consequently the wine was of a fermented process and not distilling. Therefore the alcohol content isn't close to what it is today. At one point in the Bible, it states that it took a day's drinking to get drunk. I can see Noah sweating in the sun while working on the ark and drinking a full day. Remember, water was a hot commodity back then. Not all of it was drinkable, so milk and wine was the drink of the day.

That's my 2 cents!
That was very enlightening, Granny Bear. I never really thought about it. Great post Pulp. My Mom and Dad always bought the bread at a Christian book in Pikeville and bought the Welch 's Grape Juice at Wal Mart for the church they attended.
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Old 10-11-2017, 02:14 PM
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Wine during the Ancient World period had an alcohol % between 15-20% compared to 11% today. It was watered down to lower the alcohol by various levels depending on how it was being used
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Old 10-11-2017, 03:21 PM
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Wow, so my theory is just the opposite!
Hmmm....perhaps we should go back to the fermented option.


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Old 10-17-2017, 09:03 PM
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My leaning is to think that wine in it's natural state is fermented. I've seen all kinds of experts confidently declaring it either was, or was not fermented wine that the Lord made from water. But the important thing here, according to J. Vernon McGee, is that we Christians are to be like the water pots. Filled with the water of life, The Word of God, so that once shared, or "born to the governor," that He (Christ) will then turn it into the 'wine of joy' through the knowledge of the truth. Some 'sow,' 'some water,' but it is God Who giveth the increase. The water did not become wine, until it was drawn from the pots and served. And the Good News does no good until we who are called to serve, bear it to those who thirst.

In 1 Timothy, Paul is seen giving Timothy advice on a number of things. One of them being in Chapter 5 verse 23, to take a little wine for his stomach's sake, to ease his oft occurring infirmities. I say that wine was fermented, thus it's medicinal affect.

In Titus Chapter 1 verse 7, one of the qualifications of a Bishop is to not be given to wine. Fermented. Who really cares if a Bishop drinks grape juice?

In 1 Timothy Chapter 3 verse 8, one of the qualifications of being a Deacon is not to given to MUCH wine. The indication here is self control, and the wine would obviously have been fermented.

Back to Titus again and in Chapter 2 verse 3, the aged women are not to be given to MUCH wine. Again obviously fermented.

I believe the people of Israel were largely under control, and did not ruin their lives with alcoholic excess, nor would they have allowed themselves to be bad examples before their children by getting drunk. They were after all a religious folk. Further, if it had medicinal effects for Timothy, then it would have had medicinal effects for the average Joe. Knocking back a case of Bud Light every couple three days, bears no faint similarity to Jewish tradition.
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Old 10-18-2017, 10:02 AM
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Wow, no takers huh? LOL, though some justify drinking by saying that the Lord made alcoholic wine, and the verses I cited above verify the fact that in many cases biblical references were in regard to fermented wine, there are a couple verses that I believe preclude the possibility that Jesus made alcoholic wine.


Habakkuk 2:15 (KJV)
15 Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also, that thou mayest look on their nakedness!

Though this verse is directed to the people of Babylon specifically, it nonetheless applies across the board. Babylonians were a hard drinking lot, and that why the verse points out the fact that they, (the ones who put the bottle to others) were "drunk also."

Proverbs 20:1 (KJV)
1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.


So the question as I see it, is though men of the Bible obviously drank wine, some it fermented, would Jesus then have 'made' fermented wine?

No way in my view that the wine Jesus made would have been alcoholic. He would have never put alcohol in the mouths of men. The wine He made was obviously "new wine" which in order to preserve, would have needed new skins to hold it as He later elaborated on in Matthew 9:17.
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