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Old 01-23-2018, 08:24 AM
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Default RAW 25th anniversary show
The Undertaker, Mr. McMahon, Stone Cold, The APA, Brother Love, Razor Ramon, the entire stable of DX, Jerry Lawler, Good ole' JR and more divas than I can remember.... the list goes on and on.

Broadcasting from two different arenas, The Barclays Center and the original home of Monday Night Raw, the Manhattan Center.



It was cool to see a lot of the legends, but IMO, the WWE fumbled on this one.
There was WAY too many Legends brought back, but they didn't get near enough screen time. Nobody cares about John Cena and Elias segment. That time could have been used for a Brother Love show segment. Same thing with the 'Peep show' segment. That time could have been used to showcase more legends.

And to see the videos posted on Twitter from the Manhattan Center was hard to watch. The crowd there got cheated. The Undertaker should have come out in his original Grey's, not the gothic priest look. The two televised matches were pretty much garbage from what else was on the table. DX had a B+ segment, but they didn't get enough time either.


The only big names from the Monday Night Wars era of Raw was The Rock and Mick Foley. I was looking forward to a follow-up version of "This is your life." The original segment was the highest rated segment of Raw in it's history up to that point.
CM Punk did get some screen time during the video montages (to some major pops), but wasn't mentioned.
No mention of Chris Benoit either.


Hogan, Kevin Nash, Goldberg, Sting, Sable, Sunny, Bret Hart, Sid, RVD, Edge... these are some of the other bigger names that wasn't on the show,
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  #2  
Old 01-23-2018, 11:46 AM
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I was really disappointed. Hardily any matches, the opening segment with Vince, Stephanie, Shane and Stone Cold took way too long.

Tired of seeing Strowman destroy everything and everyone in his path but yet he never gets beat up. It's old.

This thing with Matt Hardy and Bray Wyatt needs to end, it's stupid. You advertise big matches for PPV's but yet you let those stars fight each other on live tv instead of waiting for the PPV. Stupid!
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Old 01-23-2018, 11:55 AM
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Well you make me not want to watch it :-)

I DVR'd it due to another commitment. Based on what you are saying, there were matches last night. For me, I was hoping that they wouldn't have a single match, or even allude to today's story-lines. This should have been a complete celebration show, to match the preview that they aired last week. Even though you could not make schedules fit for stars like the Rock, I would hope at least that they had a video message to the WWEU. I will check it out over the next few days and let you know my thoughts.
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Old 01-23-2018, 12:21 PM
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I am not so disappointed at the lack of matches. (im told there were dark matches at each venue), but it seemed like a very bad production and not thought out very well.
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Old 01-23-2018, 01:53 PM
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Jonathan Coachman, Brother Love, the Brooklyn Brawler, Harvey Wippleman, Teddy Long and the Boogeyman all were lumped in to one very short segment.

Brother Love received the 2nd loudest Pop only behind Stone Cold. Brother Love should have had his own segment of the Brother Love show.

The poker game with the APA, Ted DiBaise and the other people they weren't sure what to do with seemed like a last-second idea.

Jericho was cheated of screen time as well.

The tag team match was nothing more than to set up the Dudley Boyz and a table spot.

Reigns vs. The Miz was terrible as well. No reason this should have been on Raw 25.


The ending was terrible as well. We get it, WWE.... you're making Braun in to a unstoppable force.
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Old 01-23-2018, 02:00 PM
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IMO.... the biggest let-down for me was not getting to see a true WCW vs. WWE Monday night wars take place on a Monday night when the real WCW superstars could actually make an appearance.

WrestleMania 31 gave us a small DX vs. nWo clash, but nothing like we could have had last night.





The nWo driving up to the Barclay's center like DX did to WCW's Nitro would have been epic. A top 5 moment for pro wrestling history.
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Old 01-23-2018, 09:13 PM
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It's wild how we can have so many different takes on this.

Personally, I think they made the right call with everything they did. I was hoping for a surprise Hogan return since he won in court and he is the single-most important figure in WWF's history, but alas they are still at odds.

Since I've been promoting local wrestling, I just look at things differently now. This is a week before Royal Rumble and they have eyes on the product that normally would not be watching. I don't think you can do enough to put over Rumble and the new talent. I loved Heyman's promo where he said Brock wasn't there on some nostalgia tour and he was the top guy in the company's 25 years. That's what needs to happen, but Brock probably needs that the least.

They needed Elias taking out Cena and hitting him with a guitar. Having the Dudley's 3D Slater is a good move. Slater is a job guy and that's what he's there for.

The thing I think they really screwed up was they didn't put over the actual Rumble match. They got over the title matches and the women's Rumble (kind-of), but they fell flat on getting people invested in the Royal Rumble.
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Old 01-23-2018, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Pulp Fiction View Post
Jonathan Coachman, Brother Love, the Brooklyn Brawler, Harvey Wippleman, Teddy Long and the Boogeyman all were lumped in to one very short segment.

Brother Love received the 2nd loudest Pop only behind Stone Cold. Brother Love should have had his own segment of the Brother Love show.

The poker game with the APA, Ted DiBaise and the other people they weren't sure what to do with seemed like a last-second idea.

Jericho was cheated of screen time as well.

The tag team match was nothing more than to set up the Dudley Boyz and a table spot.

Reigns vs. The Miz was terrible as well. No reason this should have been on Raw 25.


The ending was terrible as well. We get it, WWE.... you're making Braun in to a unstoppable force.

Well... let's go ahead and rip this one to shreds lol

Jonathan Coachman, Brother Love, the Brooklyn Brawler, Harvey Wippleman, Teddy Long and the Boogeyman all were lumped in to one very short segment.

How many segments do those guys deserve?

Brother Love received the 2nd loudest Pop only behind Stone Cold. Brother Love should have had his own segment of the Brother Love show.

Brother Love only got a pop because it was a "smark" crowd and Prichard is over with that audience because of the podcast. WWE already has those people's money because they bought tickets. To most people watching at home, they probably don't know Brother Love. We all do on here and we know Prichard's contributions to WWF, but you always have to be looking for NEW customers.

The poker game with the APA, Ted DiBaise and the other people they weren't sure what to do with seemed like a last-second idea.

What else are they going to do with APA? They basically played poker every week when they were a team. They built that segment for the nostalgia of those guys, getting Ted Dibiase on there and getting a pop for the Dudleys as they take advantage of Heath Slater. That's Heath's job, be stupid, funny and lose.

Jericho was cheated of screen time as well.

I'm sure they don't want to give Jericho more screentime since he's doing this indy wrestling deal with his cruise and working in New Japan. That's competition and it's surprising they honestly let him do anything, let alone in that NJPW shirt.

The tag team match was nothing more than to set up the Dudley Boyz and a table spot.

Already covered this, but what else would you do with the Dudleys?

Reigns vs. The Miz was terrible as well. No reason this should have been on Raw 25.

First of all, it was a good match. But they had an IC title change on live TV and they took advantage of the hot crowd. Those guys wanted to see Roman lose and Miz got plenty of heat. I think Miz is one of the best things going and notice they had him enter right after Daniel Bryan. If Bryan gets cleared, which he's trying to do, I think they've sewn the seeds of a great match at a huge PPV between those two.

The ending was terrible as well. We get it, WWE.... you're making Braun in to a unstoppable force.

Yes, WE get it. But there are folks watching this who had no idea who Braun Strowman was and they saw him lay out Brock Lesnar.

I think this was a pretty good piece of business.
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Old 01-23-2018, 09:30 PM
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I get it that some folks wanted nothing but Nostalgia, but I think that should be reserved for some WWE Network special or something.
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Old 01-24-2018, 01:21 AM
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It was a fun show.
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Old 01-24-2018, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Pulp Fiction View Post
Jonathan Coachman, Brother Love, the Brooklyn Brawler, Harvey Wippleman, Teddy Long and the Boogeyman all were lumped in to one very short segment.

Brother Love received the 2nd loudest Pop only behind Stone Cold. Brother Love should have had his own segment of the Brother Love show.

The poker game with the APA, Ted DiBaise and the other people they weren't sure what to do with seemed like a last-second idea.

Jericho was cheated of screen time as well.

The tag team match was nothing more than to set up the Dudley Boyz and a table spot.

Reigns vs. The Miz was terrible as well. No reason this should have been on Raw 25.

The ending was terrible as well. We get it, WWE.... you're making Braun in to a unstoppable force.
Originally Posted by zaga_fan View Post
Well... let's go ahead and rip this one to shreds lol

Jonathan Coachman, Brother Love, the Brooklyn Brawler, Harvey Wippleman, Teddy Long and the Boogeyman all were lumped in to one very short segment.

How many segments do those guys deserve?

Brother Love received the 2nd loudest Pop only behind Stone Cold. Brother Love should have had his own segment of the Brother Love show.

Brother Love only got a pop because it was a "smark" crowd and Prichard is over with that audience because of the podcast. WWE already has those people's money because they bought tickets. To most people watching at home, they probably don't know Brother Love. We all do on here and we know Prichard's contributions to WWF, but you always have to be looking for NEW customers.

The poker game with the APA, Ted DiBaise and the other people they weren't sure what to do with seemed like a last-second idea.

What else are they going to do with APA? They basically played poker every week when they were a team. They built that segment for the nostalgia of those guys, getting Ted Dibiase on there and getting a pop for the Dudleys as they take advantage of Heath Slater. That's Heath's job, be stupid, funny and lose.

Jericho was cheated of screen time as well.

I'm sure they don't want to give Jericho more screentime since he's doing this indy wrestling deal with his cruise and working in New Japan. That's competition and it's surprising they honestly let him do anything, let alone in that NJPW shirt.

The tag team match was nothing more than to set up the Dudley Boyz and a table spot.

Already covered this, but what else would you do with the Dudleys?

Reigns vs. The Miz was terrible as well. No reason this should have been on Raw 25.

First of all, it was a good match. But they had an IC title change on live TV and they took advantage of the hot crowd. Those guys wanted to see Roman lose and Miz got plenty of heat. I think Miz is one of the best things going and notice they had him enter right after Daniel Bryan. If Bryan gets cleared, which he's trying to do, I think they've sewn the seeds of a great match at a huge PPV between those two.

The ending was terrible as well. We get it, WWE.... you're making Braun in to a unstoppable force.

Yes, WE get it. But there are folks watching this who had no idea who Braun Strowman was and they saw him lay out Brock Lesnar.

I think this was a pretty good piece of business.
Had the show opened with the nWo driving up in their own Jeep like DX did and setting the stage for a Monday night wars type of showdown throughout the program, fans of a certain age would have Marked out like no other.

All of the Legends that were brought back deserved ring time. Not a short backstage segment. I realize some of those guys may have not been able to do anything physical in the ring, but they deserved to walk down the ramp and be seen in the ring. Not on a video board.

The Brooklyn Brawler deserved to 'Job' to somebody on Raw. Somebody on the main roster would have been the best.
Having Harvey Wippleman as his manager would have killed two birds with one stone.
The Boogeyman appearance during this segment was about as good as expected.

Brother Love doing a segment with his old 1980's TV preacher set would have been the best thing since..... well, You Know. #DootDootDoot

The APA's poker game, IMO, was good, but not the best way they could have been used. The crowd would have been happier seeing a 'Clothesline from ****'.

The Undertaker should have come out in his grey's with his original theme. This would have been the spot for an NXT talent to get smashed by the Phenom. This would have been much better than his odd segment.

The Bray Wyatt vs. Matt Hardy was so bad. JR and The king deserved to call a match with a legend. Raw 25 is a milestone. Why waste air time on a match we will probably see 4-5 more times this year.

Introducing the Divas was great, they deserved to be recognized... but having the Godfather come out after they were introduced and saying his famous "Pimpin' ain't easy" line and dancing with the ladies would have been such a memory from the Attitude era.

Ted DiBiase pulling a little kid (a plant) out of the crowd and doing the "I'll give you $100 dollars to bounce a ball 10 times in a row" gimmick would have been so great. Let the kid get to the 9th bounce and kick the ball away.... best Heel move, ever.

I can get by with Jericho's short screen time, but The List should have made more than one appearance.

The tag match could have been used to get the APA a match and let the Dudley Boyz do their thing as well.

I'm sticking to my guns on the IC title match. Reigns vs. The Miz was terrible timing, Raw 25 wasn't the place for it.

Kane, Lesnar & Strowman did deserve a segment, but not the ending and not the way it went down.

Like I said earlier, The Rock & Mick Foley's "This is your life" would have been the best segment of the show. Replace the Peep show segment..... IMO, this would have made the show. (Yes, I know the Rock wasn't available.)

The ending should have been DX vs. the nWo finally settling the Monday night wars like it should have been done. When legends put the new guy over, they do it by going out on their back. The 2001 Invasion angle was so bad. VKM could have got the big names from WCW to come to this show unlike in 2001 when most of the big names were under contract with Turner. Let DX & the nWo fight it out, then show DX helping the nWo up and giving the fans a closing scene of DX & the nWo in the ring together with the Monday night wars finally settled the way it should have been done.


Raw 25 wasn't the night to advance current storylines. This was a night for us fans in the 25-50 year old range. Some may be younger or older, but this was for the those of us that watched the WWF on Saturday mornings and flipped back and forth between USA & TNT on Monday nights. There will be plenty more shows for the current talent.
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Old 01-24-2018, 02:24 PM
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We'll just have to disagree on this one, as usual, Pulp.
This is the go-home show for Royal Rumble!

NWO vs DX was settled at WrestleMania a few years ago.
I know what you want and WWE can only give you that in small doses.
This was a fun show that got all the eyes on the product while introducing newcomers to the current generation.

And, again... I can't stress how important the Elias segment was lol
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Old 01-24-2018, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by zaga_fan View Post
We'll just have to disagree on this one, as usual, Pulp.
This is the go-home show for Royal Rumble!

NWO vs DX was settled at WrestleMania a few years ago.
I know what you want and WWE can only give you that in small doses.
This was a fun show that got all the eyes on the product while introducing newcomers to the current generation.

And, again... I can't stress how important the Elias segment was lol
'Go-Home' show or not. The Rumble is one of the original Big 4, the Rumble is as Over as any PPV they have. Storylines and battle lines are should have already been set before Raw 25, one of their biggest shows of all-time was, IMO a bad place to try and advance anything like that. The Booking committee could have led the old school fans down the some paths of yesteryear. As a way of saying Thank You to the loyal fans (like two grown men talking about this on BGR) to see their teenage Monday nights just one more time.
We are probably gonna see several of the Legends make appearances in the Rumble just because of Raw 25.

The DX vs. nWo clash at WM was awesome.... believe it or not, VKM doesn't text me every day and ask how I would Book these type of things. However, DX and the nWo feud should have been settled on a Monday night.


I would actually be worried if we started to agree on pro wrestling topics.
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Old 01-24-2018, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Pulp Fiction View Post
'Go-Home' show or not. The Rumble is one of the original Big 4, the Rumble is as Over as any PPV they have. Storylines and battle lines are should have already been set before Raw 25, one of their biggest shows of all-time was, IMO a bad place to try and advance anything like that. The Booking committee could have led the old school fans down the some paths of yesteryear. As a way of saying Thank You to the loyal fans (like two grown men talking about this on BGR) to see their teenage Monday nights just one more time.
We are probably gonna see several of the Legends make appearances in the Rumble just because of Raw 25.

The DX vs. nWo clash at WM was awesome.... believe it or not, VKM doesn't text me every day and ask how I would Book these type of things. However, DX and the nWo feud should have been settled on a Monday night.


I would actually be worried if we started to agree on pro wrestling topics.
The battle lines were already drawn for the people who watch every week.
For the folks just tuning in... they needed to know what was going on.

This is the reason Vince McMahon is more successful than any wrestling promoter ever. He doesn't think, "Let's have this huge event and it's going to be awesome for everyone tonight." He thinks, "Let's have this huge event and make some money off of it."

He misses it every so often, but the only people complaining about Raw25 are the people who complain every week anyway.
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