[tvtimeout]

The others are private enterprises. Teachers, and other state, and federal workers are employed by the tax payer. They have no right, IMO, to hold the tax payer hostage by striking and walking out . My opinion is if they are not satisfied with their employment, they should seek employment in another field in the private sector. That's really working out great right now, isn't it?. Should the ones that are footing the bills have to live at a substandard way of life than those they are paying? I think everybody knows what they are getting into when they take their respective jobs to begin with.

I like your way of thinking, I would bet though you would have the potential of making more money though, through some type of innovation, where I gave up that right. So, do you believe that someone with seven years of college education should make? Who do you want your children to be taught by?

I also would think that you are getting a discounted rate for your child's education, because of the following fact, for one child in a child care unit it is roughly $400 dollars a week, or close to it. That is close to $1,600 a month times that by nine months (an average of one school year) That is 14,400 a year. I am betting that you do not pay that in taxes. Now let us times that by 25 because that is the number of kids I have in my classroom, when I am not on my lunch, $360,000 per class. Not bad, I again like the way you think!

[tvtimeout]

The others are employed by private enterprise. Teachers, and other state, and federal workers are employed by the tax payer. They have no right, IMO, to hold the tax payer hostage by striking and walking out . Nobody forced anybody to work for the government. My opinion is if they are not satisfied with their employment, they should seek employment in another field in the private sector. By the way ,that's really working out great right now, isn't it?. Should the ones that are footing the bills have to live at a substandard way of life than those they are paying? I would say that the great percentage of teachers acquired their jobs coming straight out college, and have never held a real private sector job to begin with. Most probably dont have an inkling as to what those paying their salaries have to deal with to make their livings. They may find out they dont have it all that bad.

Just a few questions, am I not held hostage because the NFL lockout, when some tax dollars went to build their stadiums? Am I not held hostage at higher gas prices because of speculators, when the oil companies get government substities, or the food industry as well (farming)?

[Bob Seger]

Just a few questions, am I not held hostage because the NFL lockout, when some tax dollars went to build their stadiums? Am I not held hostage at higher gas prices because of speculators, when the oil companies get government substities, or the food industry as well (farming)?

As for the NFL. Dont buy their product. Dont watch them on TV, dont buy the ridiculously priced tickets. Don pay $10.00 for the beers. That takes care of that problem. No spectators= No team= no need for a stadium.

Speculators are all part of the private enterprise system. I know nothing of subsidies to oil companies, so I honestly cant comment on that.

Farm subsidies, I somewhat agree. Perhaps that should be eliminated as well. However most big agriculture now is of the corporate nature. Small family owned farms simply cannot keep the doors open any more. I dont know if giant food corporations get these same subsidies or not. If they do, I agree completely.

Multitudes of other wrongs dont make other as rights.

[tvtimeout]

As for the NFL. Dont buy their product. Dont watch them on TV, dont buy the ridiculously priced tickets. Don pay $10.00 for the beers. That takes care of that problem. No spectators= No team= no need for a stadium.
Speculators are all part of the private enterprise system. I know nothing of subsidies to oil companies, so I honestly cant comment on that.

Farm subsidies, I somewhat agree. Perhaps that should be eliminated as well. However most big agriculture now is of the corporate nature. Small family owned farms simply cannot keep the doors open any more. I dont know if giant food corporations get these same subsidies or not. If they do, I agree completely.

Multitudes of other wrongs dont make other as rights.

Doesn't change that our money goes there does it.

[tvtimeout]

As for the NFL. Dont buy their product. Dont watch them on TV, dont buy the ridiculously priced tickets. Don pay $10.00 for the beers. That takes care of that problem. No spectators= No team= no need for a stadium.
Speculators are all part of the private enterprise system. I know nothing of subsidies to oil companies, so I honestly cant comment on that.

Farm subsidies, I somewhat agree. Perhaps that should be eliminated as well. However most big agriculture now is of the corporate nature. Small family owned farms simply cannot keep the doors open any more. I dont know if giant food corporations get these same subsidies or not. If they do, I agree completely.

Multitudes of other wrongs dont make other as rights.

Agreed, but before taking out teachers, just look at the "other side" , then it is my understanding that both sides are just as bad/evil, what ever you want to call it.

Also, I am glad the republicans are calling for all these cuts, maybe we could start at the 90 military bases around the world, not in the US, but again around the world, or stop handing out aide, or cut medicaide, medicare, but no let us point out the teachers, because they are evil, and beside "my group", will keep making sure that "my pockets are filled", such as again oil substites. The other side is just as bad. I.E. unions.

[tvtimeout]

http://climateprogress.org/2011/03/01/ho...gy-future/

Just pointing out the oil sbusidies thing that is all.


Again, I wish to point out Democrats are just as bad... but don't forget about the oil and Dr.'s

[Bob Seger]

[/B]

I like your way of thinking, I would bet though you would have the potential of making more money though, through some type of innovation, where I gave up that right. So, do you believe that someone with seven years of college education should make? Who do you want your children to be taught by?

I also would think that you are getting a discounted rate for your child's education, because of the following fact, for one child in a child care unit it is roughly $400 dollars a week, or close to it. That is close to $1,600 a month times that by nine months (an average of one school year) That is 14,400 a year. I am betting that you do not pay that in taxes. Now let us times that by 25 because that is the number of kids I have in my classroom, when I am not on my lunch, $360,000 per class. Not bad, I again like the way you think!

7 years? I dont think that is all required. To enhance your standing, maybe, but not required. What do you think you should make? Did you not know the prevailing wage scale and the benefit package when you went into your field? I would think that anyone smart enough to determine that they can instuct others would be smart enough to know what they are getting into, but that just my opinion. There had to be some reason for choosing your profession. Could it be the relatively good wages based on hours worked? Every weekend off? Every holiday off? A good retirement package? Perhaps it's the 3 months summer vacation, along with the weeks vacation in the fall, the 3 weeks vacation at Christmas and another vacation week in the spring? Perhaps all of the above? I think that Oldschool touched on the days teachers report to their classrooms vs. the average private sector employee.


So are you comparing and justifying the teaching profession as a subsitute for paying a baby sitter? Surely you didn't just imply that? If so, I think you just made "a case in point" statement.


As for making more by being innovative and perhaps making more money doing something on your own, are you also prepared to risk it all to a potential total loss as a possible consequence as well?. It works that way too. Far more often than receiving the windfall version, I might add.

For what it's worth, I dont have a problem with teachers getting what they get right now, I just dont think a tax paying community should be subjected to walkout and strike tactics. Again, just my opinion. I stress again, to try it in the other world, and see how that world is living right now. The ones paying your wages are conceeding every where they turn around. Do state and federal employees receive a special gift from God that they are exempt from the trials, challanges and consessions than those that are footing the bill ?

[Bob Seger]

Doesn't change that our money goes there does it.

Those constuction projects are usually brought up for a vote by the subjected taxpaying community to support or not support. Are they not? Regardless, with no support of the product there is no need for the stadium.

[Deathstar 80]

That is an interesting thought! I just have a few questions 1. Where is the idea of the rapture come from? Can you point me to a verse saying there will be a rapture?( I am not trying to be a smart guy or anything like that, just again asking).

The second question: If Glen Beck or this other gentleman was around during the fall of the Persian, Greek, Roman, British Empires (end of the Renaissance period), the Great Depression, could they not have said the same thing that they are predicting now?

I picked each of these events to show that nothing has ever really changed (my opinion) and that cycles do happen. I think that these two gentlemen have understood their history books and studied. What do you think?

I know this discussion might be off topic. If someone else has any questions about bible prophecy and wants to start their own thread, I'll be glad to answer any questions if I can. But I thought of replying to this post if nobody minds.

1) I personally would point to 1 Thessalonians 2:19, where Paul mentions Jesus coming back.

2) Just wanting to make things clear, Glenn Beck has never said that the rapture will occur. As a matter of fact, he's treating it as if we won't go through the rapture. What Glenn Beck is saying is that we're about to go through very tough economic times and that there is a group of global elite who want a one-world government. Again, he's never mentioned the rapture.

3) The reason why I say that this time is different than any other time is because (according to both Glenn Beck and Grant Jeffrey) there's a group who wants a one-world government. If you read about bible prophecy, you may know about the one-world government that the Antichrist will control during the Tribulation Period (after the rapture). Another thing to mention is that the world will be in absolute chaos when the global economic collapse occurs. When there's chaos throughout the world, this group that wants a one-world government just might propose their plan, and the people of the world will cling to the idea of stopping the chaos by creating a one-world government. I personally connect all of these things and say that the rapture very much might happen soon.

[tvtimeout]

I thought that they did after WWII, the United Nations... return of Isreal... all 1945.

However, in the middle ages, the plague, crusades... dark period for entire world. Church took over all power, a one world government. 1500's.

A perspective is needed for all that is mentioned in the theories of Glenn Beck. Unfortunitely, perspective is gained only after going through an experience.

[tvtimeout]

Those constuction projects are usually brought up for a vote by the subjected taxpaying community to support or not support. Are they not? Regardless, with no support of the product there is no need for the stadium.

Actually, depending on the city, usually the mayor and city council vote on stadium, remember we are a republic. So, no each person in the community does not get to vote on the construction projects. Neither do we here in the state of Kentucky.

I agree with the last point though!!!

[Deathstar 80]

I thought that they did after WWII, the United Nations... return of Isreal... all 1945.

However, in the middle ages, the plague, crusades... dark period for entire world. Church took over all power, a one world government. 1500's.

A perspective is needed for all that is mentioned in the theories of Glenn Beck. Unfortunitely, perspective is gained only after going through an experience.

I apologize if my last post seemed disrespectful. I didn't mean for it to sound disrespectful, but I just read it and I was a little afraid that it might seem that way. And thank you very much for being respectful to my opinion. I feel like most people just shrug off my opinion and walk away.

About the church being a one-world government during the Middle Ages, I haven't done much research on them. But I really don't think they were because I think the church during that time only controlled Europe. To the most extent, they might've controlled a little beyond Europe, but not the entire world. The Antichrist will at first control the "Revived Roman Empire" and will eventually control the world.

About what I was talking about Glenn Beck earlier, I just want to point out that he hasn't mentioned the rapture. The reason why I wanted to make this absolutely clear in my last post was because there have been users here on this website who thought that I was saying that Glenn Beck is predicting the rapture to be soon, when he absolutely hasn't. And a few months ago, I was very frustrated and anxious about the fact that he seemed to not even connect what he was talking about to the rapture. Today, I think Glenn Beck knows the connection between what he's been talking about and the rapture, but he simply doesn't mention it... But it's probably best that he doesn't. Because if he did, a lot of people would probably shrug off his warning of a coming economic collapse. Another thing to point out is that it's important for a person to be careful when talking about the possibility of the rapture being soon. You don't want others to get the feeling that they should sell their house, quit their job, or anything like that. But you just want to point it out so that people might be encouraged to live for Christ, just in case the rapture is soon.

By the way, about Glenn Beck's prediction of an economic collapse coming, I encourage you to do your own research about it. I have and I know an economic collapse is coming.

[tvtimeout]

7 years? I dont think that is all required. To enhance your standing, maybe, but not required. What do you think you should make? Did you not know the prevailing wage scale and the benefit package when you went into your field? I would think that anyone smart enough to determine that they can instuct others would be smart enough to know what they are getting into, but that just my opinion. There had to be some reason for choosing your profession. Could it be the relatively good wages based on hours worked? Every weekend off? Every holiday off? A good retirement package? Perhaps it's the 3 months summer vacation, along with the weeks vacation in the fall, the 3 weeks vacation at Christmas and another vacation week in the spring? Perhaps all of the above? I think that Oldschool touched on the days teachers report to their classrooms vs. the average private sector employee.


So are you comparing and justifying the teaching profession as a subsitute for paying a baby sitter? Surely you didn't just imply that? If so, I think you just made "a case in point" statement.


As for making more by being innovative and perhaps making more money doing something on your own, are you also prepared to risk it all to a potential total loss as a possible consequence as well?. It works that way too. Far more often than receiving the windfall version, I might add.

For what it's worth, I dont have a problem with teachers getting what they get right now, I just dont think a tax paying community should be subjected to walkout and strike tactics. Again, just my opinion. I stress again, to try it in the other world, and see how that world is living right now. The ones paying your wages are conceeding every where they turn around. Do state and federal employees receive a special gift from God that they are exempt from the trials, challanges and consessions than those that are footing the bill ?

Actually, you just made mine, you would pay more for your child or children to receive an education. More so than a common baby sitter service, I just showing you a real life private example of what it probably should cost someone, then people complain that I am grossly overpaid when, the private market shows that I am underpaid if you use the example of the baby sitter. That is all I was showing

[tvtimeout]

7 years? I dont think that is all required. To enhance your standing, maybe, but not required. What do you think you should make? Did you not know the prevailing wage scale and the benefit package when you went into your field? I would think that anyone smart enough to determine that they can instuct others would be smart enough to know what they are getting into, but that just my opinion. There had to be some reason for choosing your profession. Could it be the relatively good wages based on hours worked? Every weekend off? Every holiday off? A good retirement package? Perhaps it's the 3 months summer vacation, along with the weeks vacation in the fall, the 3 weeks vacation at Christmas and another vacation week in the spring? Perhaps all of the above? I think that Oldschool touched on the days teachers report to their classrooms vs. the average private sector employee.


So are you comparing and justifying the teaching profession as a subsitute for paying a baby sitter? Surely you didn't just imply that? If so, I think you just made "a case in point" statement.


As for making more by being innovative and perhaps making more money doing something on your own, are you also prepared to risk it all to a potential total loss as a possible consequence as well?. It works that way too. Far more often than receiving the windfall version, I might add.

For what it's worth, I dont have a problem with teachers getting what they get right now, I just dont think a tax paying community should be subjected to walkout and strike tactics. Again, just my opinion. I stress again, to try it in the other world, and see how that world is living right now. The ones paying your wages are conceeding every where they turn around. Do state and federal employees receive a special gift from God that they are exempt from the trials, challanges and consessions than those that are footing the bill ?

The above bolded section is always a mis conception, and I am glad that you have pointed it out. Teacher contracts are only 175-177 days long. So that time off as you put it kindly, I am not getting paid for it. It is true I can select my pay over the course of a year, i.e. once a month or twice a month. But please do not think that teachers get paid for a full year's work.

As for me though, I do not mind to share why I went in the profession and work in another profession as well. It comes down to the same basic principle of wanting to help others. Money has very little to do with any of my decision making on these points. (If I sound like I am preaching here, you can tune me out, it is not my intent). I believe that I can not take anything with me when I go home. I do live in my means though, because I do believe in personal responsibility.

I once thought that I could help this region by educating the youth of this region, help them find their path. However, I found that all I have helped to do is to improve the individual lives of former students, where they could leave this place and work somewhere else. I have helped in causing a regional brain drain. So I prayed hard, fasted, and so forth seeking His will in all of this, I was pointed to the book of Nehamiah, and found courage through that as well as the book of Joshua. I decided that the only way to make a difference is to start a company right here in S.KY to hire these people back to the region which in turn will bring more commerace and so on and so forth. That is what I am currently working on each day after I complete my first job. And as Paul Harvey once said "and now you know the rest of the story".

[Bob Seger]

Actually, you just made mine, you would pay more for your child or children to receive an education. More so than a common baby sitter service, I just showing you a real life private example of what it probably should cost someone, then people complain that I am grossly overpaid when, the private market shows that I am underpaid if you use the example of the baby sitter. That is all I was showing

Not implying that you are overpaid at all. I think I made that clear. I dont think that anyone else is doing that at all either. I do feel that some are putting things in their proper perspective though. At least that is where I am coming from. I feel that you are in line with the average American worker and are being paid a just and fair wage, with just and fair benefits for the time you spend on the job.. I understand that you will probably never get rich being a teacher, but you hardly receive destitute caliber wages and benefits either. Like I previously mentioned, you had to know the prevailing wages and benefits when you entered the field. I just dont think that given the economic difficulties that's forcing the cost cutting and sacrifing by everyone else, that a teacher or any state or federal employee should be exempt from having to do the same thing we all are doing. Using walkout tactics to hold the taxpayer hostage is a real disgrace and should be illegal in my opinion. I feel a case of "prima donna syndrome " exists with most public employees. If any public employee feels a need for sympathy, I just dont think I'll be one of those standing with them in the sob lines at this particular time. They IMO, are no better than the rest of us out here right now.

[tvtimeout]

7 years? I dont think that is all required. To enhance your standing, maybe, but not required. What do you think you should make? Did you not know the prevailing wage scale and the benefit package when you went into your field? I would think that anyone smart enough to determine that they can instuct others would be smart enough to know what they are getting into, but that just my opinion. There had to be some reason for choosing your profession. Could it be the relatively good wages based on hours worked? Every weekend off? Every holiday off? A good retirement package? Perhaps it's the 3 months summer vacation, along with the weeks vacation in the fall, the 3 weeks vacation at Christmas and another vacation week in the spring? Perhaps all of the above? I think that Oldschool touched on the days teachers report to their classrooms vs. the average private sector employee.


So are you comparing and justifying the teaching profession as a subsitute for paying a baby sitter? Surely you didn't just imply that? If so, I think you just made "a case in point" statement.


As for making more by being innovative and perhaps making more money doing something on your own, are you also prepared to risk it all to a potential total loss as a possible consequence as well?. It works that way too. Far more often than receiving the windfall version, I might add.

For what it's worth, I dont have a problem with teachers getting what they get right now, I just dont think a tax paying community should be subjected to walkout and strike tactics. Again, just my opinion. I stress again, to try it in the other world, and see how that world is living right now. The ones paying your wages are conceeding every where they turn around. Do state and federal employees receive a special gift from God that they are exempt from the trials, challanges and consessions than those that are footing the bill ?

What would you have teachers to do when they see a 5% reduction in SEEK funding? To give you an idea, the county in which I live has three school systems, one school would face $50,000 dollar short fall, or one teacher, the second district would lose $90,000, basically two teachers, and the third district would lose close to $1 million dollars. A lot of teachers. That is only in one county, times that by every county in the Commonwealth of Kentucky.

But here is the kicker to it all, the money that is going to be cut is to pay medicaide... so the doctors, lawyers, and so forth will get paid, because we are going to cover that, and continue to make sure that our people live in bondage, because they don't know anything else.

I would bet you would fight for your job as well as most people. So going on strike, is the only chip we have.

Notice I have talked about collective barginning, which our Commonwealth does not have. I have not even talked about taking a pay cut, no, I am talking about people losing their jobs so someone can spend more time in an emergency room, get free food, get high, have more babies, etc. ( I don't think all people that receive medicaide is like this either, but since teachers unions get lumped together across the U.S. I figure I would). That to me is not right. What do you think?

[tvtimeout]

Not implying that you are overpaid at all. I think I made that clear. I dont think that anyone is doing that at all either. I do feel that some are putting things in their proper perspective though. At least that is where I am coming from. I feel that you are in line with the average American worker and are being paid a just and fair wage, with just and fair benefits. I understand that you will probably never get rich being a teacher, but you hardly receive destitute caliber wages and benefits either. Like I previously mentioned, you had to know the prevailing wages and benefits when you entered the field. I think that all anyone else is saying is that we dont feel, given the economic difficulties that's forcing the cost cutting and sacrifing by about everyone else is encountering, that a teacher or any state or federal employee should be exempt from having to do the same thing we all are doing. Using walkout tactics to hold the taxpayer hostage is a real disgrace in my opinion. I feel a case of "prima donna syndrome " exists with most public employees. If any public employee feels a need for sympathy, I just dont think I'll be one of those standing with them in the sob lines. They IMO, are no better than the rest of us out here right now.

See, I agree with you, we are no better, but we are also no worse, and thus I understand you or anyone else would not fight for your job, but whatever means neccessary (legal), because you must take care of your family. I understand this, but I must also be afforded the same right.

[tvtimeout]

Bob, it has been a pleasure talking with you, the wife is telling me it is bed time. I do look forward to reading your response, but until then, have a great evening.

[TheRealThing]

I bolded the part that confuses me about you statement. You say that you understand the work conditions and wages, but in the very next statement you say that it should not be held for teachers and state workers.

My question is this: why?

If you say because it is considered a service, is not the medical field a service or air traffic controllers a service. If you say because you should not because you are working with someone elses money, but I would say doesn't everybody. If you say you signed up for this type of service, you are right but now people are changing the rules in midstream, at which point I did not sign up for.

So again ask why is a teacher not allowed to have the same benefits as say a union employee in any other field?

Okay, let me try again. There was a time when the trades folks HAD to take tremendous risks to make what was at that time a very meager wage. Working hundreds of feet in the air on the side of some skyscraper for instance. No fall protection, no bathroom facility, no breaks, about a 15 min lunch etc. Also, if one wanted to keep the job he had he bowed his neck and worked like there was no tomorrow. If he didn't he ascended to the top of the lay off list as they say. Every worker routinely took life threatening risks to perform his daily grind. Mines with little or no thought to safety, working in dusts and chemicals that eventually killed them all. I can provide examples to substantiate the point Ad Nauseum if you like.

Men like these that I have mentioned, formed unions so that they could bargain as effectively as possible for wages and conditions. I mean they were on their own when they stood before the Man in those days. As a result, it was easy to be treated badly standing there on your own. The idea was a good one as it turns out, and decent folks got what is described by Union Men these days as a "FAIR DAYS' WORK FOR A FAIR DAYS' PAY"

Not to in anyway say that teachers, state highway workers, government clerks and secretaries, grounds keepers, janitors and on it could neccessrarily go, don't deserve to make it in this world too. But, if a state employee tried to get up and say he was being abused, my guess is that he'd be laughed to scorn. Union folks blazed the way for all Americans by their courage and insight.

Now to your point regarding why you can't have the same benefits.
1 Your work isn't dangeroius
2 Your work isn't long
3 Your work isn't hard
4 You're off more days than you work each year
5 You have tenure. After 10 years even the President himself can't touch you
6 You have a darn good retirement
7 You have darn good health insurance and life insurance
8 The harshest evironmental hazard you face is second hand smoke in the restroom
9 You get paid vacation and holidays, personal days, sick days
10 You get very good pay
You tell me did I miss anything?

The union folks I know get the following;
1 Health insurance that they pay a lot for
2 A check if they work, no check if they don't (good pay)
3 A pension that they pay an hourly $ amount for
4 A swift kick in the pants when they get too old to cut the mustard
5 Total paid days off each year, counting Christmas----ZERO

I suppose we are both confused at this point. Tell me again why you need to be a union member so you can get the benefits I get? Again I say a state job is to die for because in this country government backed jobs are the very best bar none.

[tvtimeout]

Okay, let me try again. There was a time when the trades folks HAD to take tremendous risks to make what was at that time a very meager wage. Working hundreds of feet in the air on the side of some skyscraper for instance. No fall protection, no bathroom facility, no breaks, about a 15 min lunch etc. Also, if one wanted to keep the job he had he bowed his neck and worked like there was no tomorrow. If he didn't he ascended to the top of the lay off list as they say. Every worker routinely took life threatening risks to perform his daily grind. Mines with little or no thought to safety, working in dusts and chemicals that eventually killed them all. I can provide examples to substantiate the point Ad Nauseum if you like.

Men like these that I have mentioned, formed unions so that they could bargain as effectively as possible for wages and conditions. I mean they were on their own when they stood before the Man in those days. As a result, it was easy to be treated badly standing there on your own. The idea was a good one as it turns out, and decent folks got what is described by Union Men these days as a "FAIR DAYS' WORK FOR A FAIR DAYS' PAY"

Not to in anyway say that teachers, state highway workers, government clerks and secretaries, grounds keepers, janitors and on it could neccessrarily go, don't deserve to make it in this world too. But, if a state employee tried to get up and say he was being abused, my guess is that he'd be laughed to scorn. Union folks blazed the way for all Americans by their courage and insight.

Now to your point regarding why you can't have the same benefits.
1 Your work isn't dangeroius
2 Your work isn't long
3 Your work isn't hard
4 You're off more days than you work each year
5 You have tenure. After 10 years even the President himself can't touch you
6 You have a darn good retirement7 You have darn good health insurance and life insurance
8 The harshest evironmental hazard you face is second hand smoke in the restroom
9 You get paid vacation and holidays, personal days, sick days
10 You get very good pay
You tell me did I miss anything?

The union folks I know get the following;
1 Health insurance that they pay a lot for
2 A check if they work, no check if they don't (good pay)
3 A pension that they pay an hourly $ amount for
4 A swift kick in the pants when they get too old to cut the mustard
5 Total paid days off each year, counting Christmas----ZERO

I suppose we are both confused at this point. Tell me again why you need to be a union member so you can get the benefits I get? Again I say a state job is to die for because in this country government backed jobs are the very best bar none.

I am going to take this one by one, let us start with number 6: good retirement, did you know teachers in this state pay into a different account than anyone else? That our account was fully funded by teachers and the Commonwealth of Kentucky borrowed money against our account and never paid it back, making our account a deficit. Did you know that teachers can not receive S.S benefits?

So I pay into a different account, government comes in takes from that account and never repays, and I am never allowed to have S.S. even though every check I pay into S.S. ... good retirement.

[tvtimeout]

Okay, let me try again. There was a time when the trades folks HAD to take tremendous risks to make what was at that time a very meager wage. Working hundreds of feet in the air on the side of some skyscraper for instance. No fall protection, no bathroom facility, no breaks, about a 15 min lunch etc. Also, if one wanted to keep the job he had he bowed his neck and worked like there was no tomorrow. If he didn't he ascended to the top of the lay off list as they say. Every worker routinely took life threatening risks to perform his daily grind. Mines with little or no thought to safety, working in dusts and chemicals that eventually killed them all. I can provide examples to substantiate the point Ad Nauseum if you like.

Men like these that I have mentioned, formed unions so that they could bargain as effectively as possible for wages and conditions. I mean they were on their own when they stood before the Man in those days. As a result, it was easy to be treated badly standing there on your own. The idea was a good one as it turns out, and decent folks got what is described by Union Men these days as a "FAIR DAYS' WORK FOR A FAIR DAYS' PAY"

Not to in anyway say that teachers, state highway workers, government clerks and secretaries, grounds keepers, janitors and on it could neccessrarily go, don't deserve to make it in this world too. But, if a state employee tried to get up and say he was being abused, my guess is that he'd be laughed to scorn. Union folks blazed the way for all Americans by their courage and insight.

Now to your point regarding why you can't have the same benefits.
1 Your work isn't dangeroius2 Your work isn't long
3 Your work isn't hard
4 You're off more days than you work each year
5 You have tenure. After 10 years even the President himself can't touch you
6 You have a darn good retirement
7 You have darn good health insurance and life insurance
8 The harshest evironmental hazard you face is second hand smoke in the restroom
9 You get paid vacation and holidays, personal days, sick days
10 You get very good pay
You tell me did I miss anything?

The union folks I know get the following;
1 Health insurance that they pay a lot for
2 A check if they work, no check if they don't (good pay)
3 A pension that they pay an hourly $ amount for
4 A swift kick in the pants when they get too old to cut the mustard
5 Total paid days off each year, counting Christmas----ZERO

I suppose we are both confused at this point. Tell me again why you need to be a union member so you can get the benefits I get? Again I say a state job is to die for because in this country government backed jobs are the very best bar none.

Number #1 work is not dangerous... well other than lawsuit at every corner where my family could be taken to cleaners over. Turning children into Social Services and having families threaten me because I am watching out for their child and getting them out of a meth home, so I just made the drug dealers mad. Also, a rare one but it does happen, school shootings. The first two happen almost daily in the commonwealth.

[tvtimeout]

Okay, let me try again. There was a time when the trades folks HAD to take tremendous risks to make what was at that time a very meager wage. Working hundreds of feet in the air on the side of some skyscraper for instance. No fall protection, no bathroom facility, no breaks, about a 15 min lunch etc. Also, if one wanted to keep the job he had he bowed his neck and worked like there was no tomorrow. If he didn't he ascended to the top of the lay off list as they say. Every worker routinely took life threatening risks to perform his daily grind. Mines with little or no thought to safety, working in dusts and chemicals that eventually killed them all. I can provide examples to substantiate the point Ad Nauseum if you like.

Men like these that I have mentioned, formed unions so that they could bargain as effectively as possible for wages and conditions. I mean they were on their own when they stood before the Man in those days. As a result, it was easy to be treated badly standing there on your own. The idea was a good one as it turns out, and decent folks got what is described by Union Men these days as a "FAIR DAYS' WORK FOR A FAIR DAYS' PAY"

Not to in anyway say that teachers, state highway workers, government clerks and secretaries, grounds keepers, janitors and on it could neccessrarily go, don't deserve to make it in this world too. But, if a state employee tried to get up and say he was being abused, my guess is that he'd be laughed to scorn. Union folks blazed the way for all Americans by their courage and insight.

Now to your point regarding why you can't have the same benefits.
1 Your work isn't dangeroius
2 Your work isn't long
3 Your work isn't hard
4 You're off more days than you work each year5 You have tenure. After 10 years even the President himself can't touch you
6 You have a darn good retirement
7 You have darn good health insurance and life insurance
8 The harshest evironmental hazard you face is second hand smoke in the restroom
9 You get paid vacation and holidays, personal days, sick days
10 You get very good pay
You tell me did I miss anything?

The union folks I know get the following;
1 Health insurance that they pay a lot for
2 A check if they work, no check if they don't (good pay)
3 A pension that they pay an hourly $ amount for
4 A swift kick in the pants when they get too old to cut the mustard
5 Total paid days off each year, counting Christmas----ZERO

I suppose we are both confused at this point. Tell me again why you need to be a union member so you can get the benefits I get? Again I say a state job is to die for because in this country government backed jobs are the very best bar none.

#4 I have already explained that teachers do not get paid for... read other post to Bob.

[tvtimeout]

Okay, let me try again. There was a time when the trades folks HAD to take tremendous risks to make what was at that time a very meager wage. Working hundreds of feet in the air on the side of some skyscraper for instance. No fall protection, no bathroom facility, no breaks, about a 15 min lunch etc. Also, if one wanted to keep the job he had he bowed his neck and worked like there was no tomorrow. If he didn't he ascended to the top of the lay off list as they say. Every worker routinely took life threatening risks to perform his daily grind. Mines with little or no thought to safety, working in dusts and chemicals that eventually killed them all. I can provide examples to substantiate the point Ad Nauseum if you like.

Men like these that I have mentioned, formed unions so that they could bargain as effectively as possible for wages and conditions. I mean they were on their own when they stood before the Man in those days. As a result, it was easy to be treated badly standing there on your own. The idea was a good one as it turns out, and decent folks got what is described by Union Men these days as a "FAIR DAYS' WORK FOR A FAIR DAYS' PAY"

Not to in anyway say that teachers, state highway workers, government clerks and secretaries, grounds keepers, janitors and on it could neccessrarily go, don't deserve to make it in this world too. But, if a state employee tried to get up and say he was being abused, my guess is that he'd be laughed to scorn. Union folks blazed the way for all Americans by their courage and insight.

Now to your point regarding why you can't have the same benefits.
1 Your work isn't dangeroius
2 Your work isn't long
3 Your work isn't hard4 You're off more days than you work each year
5 You have tenure. After 10 years even the President himself can't touch you
6 You have a darn good retirement
7 You have darn good health insurance and life insurance
8 The harshest evironmental hazard you face is second hand smoke in the restroom
9 You get paid vacation and holidays, personal days, sick days
10 You get very good pay
You tell me did I miss anything?

The union folks I know get the following;
1 Health insurance that they pay a lot for
2 A check if they work, no check if they don't (good pay)
3 A pension that they pay an hourly $ amount for
4 A swift kick in the pants when they get too old to cut the mustard
5 Total paid days off each year, counting Christmas----ZERO

I suppose we are both confused at this point. Tell me again why you need to be a union member so you can get the benefits I get? Again I say a state job is to die for because in this country government backed jobs are the very best bar none.

#3 yep my job is easy, all I got to do is get children to care about something most of thier families care less about. I got to show children there is a better life, when all they see is their family getting to live freely without working. Then, I am going to get assessed at my job, because of what someone else does and no accountablity for them. Yep, piece of cake.

[tvtimeout]

Okay, let me try again. There was a time when the trades folks HAD to take tremendous risks to make what was at that time a very meager wage. Working hundreds of feet in the air on the side of some skyscraper for instance. No fall protection, no bathroom facility, no breaks, about a 15 min lunch etc. Also, if one wanted to keep the job he had he bowed his neck and worked like there was no tomorrow. If he didn't he ascended to the top of the lay off list as they say. Every worker routinely took life threatening risks to perform his daily grind. Mines with little or no thought to safety, working in dusts and chemicals that eventually killed them all. I can provide examples to substantiate the point Ad Nauseum if you like.

Men like these that I have mentioned, formed unions so that they could bargain as effectively as possible for wages and conditions. I mean they were on their own when they stood before the Man in those days. As a result, it was easy to be treated badly standing there on your own. The idea was a good one as it turns out, and decent folks got what is described by Union Men these days as a "FAIR DAYS' WORK FOR A FAIR DAYS' PAY"

Not to in anyway say that teachers, state highway workers, government clerks and secretaries, grounds keepers, janitors and on it could neccessrarily go, don't deserve to make it in this world too. But, if a state employee tried to get up and say he was being abused, my guess is that he'd be laughed to scorn. Union folks blazed the way for all Americans by their courage and insight.

Now to your point regarding why you can't have the same benefits.
1 Your work isn't dangeroius
2 Your work isn't long
3 Your work isn't hard
4 You're off more days than you work each year
5 You have tenure. After 10 years even the President himself can't touch you
6 You have a darn good retirement
7 You have darn good health insurance and life insurance
8 The harshest evironmental hazard you face is second hand smoke in the restroom
9 You get paid vacation and holidays, personal days, sick days
10 You get very good payYou tell me did I miss anything?

The union folks I know get the following;
1 Health insurance that they pay a lot for
2 A check if they work, no check if they don't (good pay)
3 A pension that they pay an hourly $ amount for
4 A swift kick in the pants when they get too old to cut the mustard
5 Total paid days off each year, counting Christmas----ZERO

I suppose we are both confused at this point. Tell me again why you need to be a union member so you can get the benefits I get? Again I say a state job is to die for because in this country government backed jobs are the very best bar none.

I have already responded to Bob on this one. But the again the private market that you love so dear, would dictate that a teacher again it is one of the posts to Bob.

[tvtimeout]

Okay, let me try again. There was a time when the trades folks HAD to take tremendous risks to make what was at that time a very meager wage. Working hundreds of feet in the air on the side of some skyscraper for instance. No fall protection, no bathroom facility, no breaks, about a 15 min lunch etc. Also, if one wanted to keep the job he had he bowed his neck and worked like there was no tomorrow. If he didn't he ascended to the top of the lay off list as they say. Every worker routinely took life threatening risks to perform his daily grind. Mines with little or no thought to safety, working in dusts and chemicals that eventually killed them all. I can provide examples to substantiate the point Ad Nauseum if you like.

Men like these that I have mentioned, formed unions so that they could bargain as effectively as possible for wages and conditions. I mean they were on their own when they stood before the Man in those days. As a result, it was easy to be treated badly standing there on your own. The idea was a good one as it turns out, and decent folks got what is described by Union Men these days as a "FAIR DAYS' WORK FOR A FAIR DAYS' PAY"

Not to in anyway say that teachers, state highway workers, government clerks and secretaries, grounds keepers, janitors and on it could neccessrarily go, don't deserve to make it in this world too. But, if a state employee tried to get up and say he was being abused, my guess is that he'd be laughed to scorn. Union folks blazed the way for all Americans by their courage and insight.

Now to your point regarding why you can't have the same benefits.
1 Your work isn't dangeroius
2 Your work isn't long
3 Your work isn't hard
4 You're off more days than you work each year
5 You have tenure. After 10 years even the President himself can't touch you
6 You have a darn good retirement
7 You have darn good health insurance and life insurance
8 The harshest evironmental hazard you face is second hand smoke in the restroom9 You get paid vacation and holidays, personal days, sick days
10 You get very good pay
You tell me did I miss anything?

The union folks I know get the following;
1 Health insurance that they pay a lot for
2 A check if they work, no check if they don't (good pay)
3 A pension that they pay an hourly $ amount for
4 A swift kick in the pants when they get too old to cut the mustard
5 Total paid days off each year, counting Christmas----ZERO

I suppose we are both confused at this point. Tell me again why you need to be a union member so you can get the benefits I get? Again I say a state job is to die for because in this country government backed jobs are the very best bar none.

That one is kinda funny and would be true, but you might not know that teachers do take home visits, not the best environment in the world. Especially, when you tell a parent that they will no longer will receive a Disability Check because their child did not qualify for Special Education. It is fun, I get invited in for dinner and everything!

[tvtimeout]

Okay, let me try again. There was a time when the trades folks HAD to take tremendous risks to make what was at that time a very meager wage. Working hundreds of feet in the air on the side of some skyscraper for instance. No fall protection, no bathroom facility, no breaks, about a 15 min lunch etc. Also, if one wanted to keep the job he had he bowed his neck and worked like there was no tomorrow. If he didn't he ascended to the top of the lay off list as they say. Every worker routinely took life threatening risks to perform his daily grind. Mines with little or no thought to safety, working in dusts and chemicals that eventually killed them all. I can provide examples to substantiate the point Ad Nauseum if you like.

Men like these that I have mentioned, formed unions so that they could bargain as effectively as possible for wages and conditions. I mean they were on their own when they stood before the Man in those days. As a result, it was easy to be treated badly standing there on your own. The idea was a good one as it turns out, and decent folks got what is described by Union Men these days as a "FAIR DAYS' WORK FOR A FAIR DAYS' PAY"

Not to in anyway say that teachers, state highway workers, government clerks and secretaries, grounds keepers, janitors and on it could neccessrarily go, don't deserve to make it in this world too. But, if a state employee tried to get up and say he was being abused, my guess is that he'd be laughed to scorn. Union folks blazed the way for all Americans by their courage and insight.

Now to your point regarding why you can't have the same benefits.
1 Your work isn't dangeroius
2 Your work isn't long
3 Your work isn't hard
4 You're off more days than you work each year
5 You have tenure. After 10 years even the President himself can't touch you
6 You have a darn good retirement
7 You have darn good health insurance and life insurance
8 The harshest evironmental hazard you face is second hand smoke in the restroom
9 You get paid vacation and holidays, personal days, sick days10 You get very good pay
You tell me did I miss anything?

The union folks I know get the following;
1 Health insurance that they pay a lot for
2 A check if they work, no check if they don't (good pay)
3 A pension that they pay an hourly $ amount for
4 A swift kick in the pants when they get too old to cut the mustard
5 Total paid days off each year, counting Christmas----ZERO

I suppose we are both confused at this point. Tell me again why you need to be a union member so you can get the benefits I get? Again I say a state job is to die for because in this country government backed jobs are the very best bar none.

#9 you are partically right, sick days I do get paid for as well as personal, but I do not get paid for vacation.

[tvtimeout]

I would love to write more but got to go for now, as always a pleasure speaking to you this morning and have a great day

[tvtimeout]

[quote=TheRealThing]Okay, let me try again. There was a time when the trades folks HAD to take tremendous risks to make what was at that time a very meager wage. Working hundreds of feet in the air on the side of some skyscraper for instance. No fall protection, no bathroom facility, no breaks, about a 15 min lunch etc. Also, if one wanted to keep the job he had he bowed his neck and worked like there was no tomorrow. If he didn't he ascended to the top of the lay off list as they say. Every worker routinely took life threatening risks to perform his daily grind. Mines with little or no thought to safety, working in dusts and chemicals that eventually killed them all. I can provide examples to substantiate the point Ad Nauseum if you like.

Men like these that I have mentioned, formed unions so that they could bargain as effectively as possible for wages and conditions. I mean they were on their own when they stood before the Man in those days. As a result, it was easy to be treated badly standing there on your own. The idea was a good one as it turns out, and decent folks got what is described by Union Men these days as a "FAIR DAYS' WORK FOR A FAIR DAYS' PAY"

Not to in anyway say that teachers, state highway workers, government clerks and secretaries, grounds keepers, janitors and on it could neccessrarily go, don't deserve to make it in this world too. But, if a state employee tried to get up and say he was being abused, my guess is that he'd be laughed to scorn. Union folks blazed the way for all Americans by their courage and insight.

Now to your point regarding why you can't have the same benefits.
1 Your work isn't dangeroius
2 Your work isn't long
3 Your work isn't hard
4 You're off more days than you work each year
5 You have tenure. After 10 years even the President himself can't touch you
6 You have a darn good retirement
7 You have darn good health insurance and life insurance
8 The harshest evironmental hazard you face is second hand smoke in the restroom
9 You get paid vacation and holidays, personal days, sick days
10 You get very good pay
You tell me did I miss anything?

The union folks I know get the following;
1 Health insurance that they pay a lot for
2 A check if they work, no check if they don't (good pay)
3 A pension that they pay an hourly $ amount for
4 A swift kick in the pants when they get too old to cut the mustard
5 Total paid days off each year, counting Christmas----ZERO

I suppose we are both confused at this point. Tell me again why you need to be a union member so you can get the benefits I get? Again I say a state job is to die for because in this country government backed jobs are the very best bar none.[/QUOTE]

Depends, I will get blamed for us not comparing with China from an educational standpoint by most in the US and certainly on some Fox Channel:biggrin: However, what most of the US and Fox either chooses to look the other way or they are simple ignorant is the fact, we educate every single person in the US. China does not. If I take our top ten percent and educate them, then as they say we compare apples to apples.

However, it will be spun to say teachers are the cause of this, it is their fault. They are over paid, they have so much time off, some of the points you made earlier, but now that you know the truth about them, I would bet you don't feel the same way, but then again maybe you do.

One of the main reasons I joined this site is so I could get a better understanding of the people in our region and open my eyes to what you see and hear. So, I thank you again for sharing them and I want you to know that I respect them.

[Hoot Gibson]

[quote=TheRealThing]Okay, let me try again. There was a time when the trades folks HAD to take tremendous risks to make what was at that time a very meager wage. Working hundreds of feet in the air on the side of some skyscraper for instance. No fall protection, no bathroom facility, no breaks, about a 15 min lunch etc. Also, if one wanted to keep the job he had he bowed his neck and worked like there was no tomorrow. If he didn't he ascended to the top of the lay off list as they say. Every worker routinely took life threatening risks to perform his daily grind. Mines with little or no thought to safety, working in dusts and chemicals that eventually killed them all. I can provide examples to substantiate the point Ad Nauseum if you like.

Men like these that I have mentioned, formed unions so that they could bargain as effectively as possible for wages and conditions. I mean they were on their own when they stood before the Man in those days. As a result, it was easy to be treated badly standing there on your own. The idea was a good one as it turns out, and decent folks got what is described by Union Men these days as a "FAIR DAYS' WORK FOR A FAIR DAYS' PAY"

Not to in anyway say that teachers, state highway workers, government clerks and secretaries, grounds keepers, janitors and on it could neccessrarily go, don't deserve to make it in this world too. But, if a state employee tried to get up and say he was being abused, my guess is that he'd be laughed to scorn. Union folks blazed the way for all Americans by their courage and insight.

Now to your point regarding why you can't have the same benefits.
1 Your work isn't dangeroius
2 Your work isn't long
3 Your work isn't hard
4 You're off more days than you work each year
5 You have tenure. After 10 years even the President himself can't touch you
6 You have a darn good retirement
7 You have darn good health insurance and life insurance
8 The harshest evironmental hazard you face is second hand smoke in the restroom
9 You get paid vacation and holidays, personal days, sick days
10 You get very good pay
You tell me did I miss anything?

The union folks I know get the following;
1 Health insurance that they pay a lot for
2 A check if they work, no check if they don't (good pay)
3 A pension that they pay an hourly $ amount for
4 A swift kick in the pants when they get too old to cut the mustard
5 Total paid days off each year, counting Christmas----ZERO

I suppose we are both confused at this point. Tell me again why you need to be a union member so you can get the benefits I get? Again I say a state job is to die for because in this country government backed jobs are the very best bar none.[/QUOTE]

Depends, I will get blamed for us not comparing with China from an educational standpoint by most in the US and certainly on some Fox Channel:biggrin: However, what most of the US and Fox either chooses to look the other way or they are simple ignorant is the fact, we educate every single person in the US. China does not. If I take our top ten percent and educate them, then as they say we compare apples to apples.

However, it will be spun to say teachers are the cause of this, it is their fault. They are over paid, they have so much time off, some of the points you made earlier, but now that you know the truth about them, I would bet you don't feel the same way, but then again maybe you do.

One of the main reasons I joined this site is so I could get a better understanding of the people in our region and open my eyes to what you see and hear. So, I thank you again for sharing them and I want you to know that I respect them.

This country is doing an extremely poor job of educating its population and the trend is not a good one. Increasingly, the high paying professions in this country are being filled by foreign nationals.

Almost half of the software developers with whom I work are from India. On my project team alone, there are two Indians, a South Korean, and two Americans. Considering that thousands of engineering, programming, and help desk jobs have already been outsourced to India and other countries around the globe, I think that this represents a great failure of our public education system in preparing Americans for the modern economy.

Too many Americans are operating under the misconception that these jobs are all being filled by less educated, less skilled foreigners who are willing to work for pennies a day. That is not the case. The skill of the Indian programmers with whom I am working is equal to any of the American developers with whom I have worked. In a few years, most of them will return to India and live like kings from their earnings here, performing jobs that Americans should be doing.

(Don't misinterpret my statements as being anti-Indian or anti-immigrant. If I was running a software business, I would hire my Indian friends without hesitation. However, there should be no shortage of Americans prepared to take these positions and perform at the same high level as people educated in Mumbai are performing.)

The abolition of the Department of Education is long overdue it has been nothing but a colossal waste of tax dollars. It is also time to throw out the current pay structure for teachers and allow districts to pay on the basis of merit and to follow the laws of supply and demand.

If competent math and science teachers are in short supply, offer good candidates for those positions more money. If there are gluts of PE and history teachers being produced by our universities, then drop the salaries of new hires in those fields. Finally, it is time for politicians to embrace vouchers and allow parents true choice in schools.

If these changes require outlawing the NEA in public schools, then so be it. Education is too important to be left in the hands of union bosses and the Democrats whom they have placed in their pockets.

[TheRealVille]

I know this discussion might be off topic. If someone else has any questions about bible prophecy and wants to start their own thread, I'll be glad to answer any questions if I can. But I thought of replying to this post if nobody minds.

1) I personally would point to 1 Thessalonians 2:19, where Paul mentions Jesus coming back.

2) Just wanting to make things clear, Glenn Beck has never said that the rapture will occur. As a matter of fact, he's treating it as if we won't go through the rapture. What Glenn Beck is saying is that we're about to go through very tough economic times and that there is a group of global elite who want a one-world government. Again, he's never mentioned the rapture.

3) The reason why I say that this time is different than any other time is because (according to both Glenn Beck and Grant Jeffrey) there's a group who wants a one-world government. If you read about bible prophecy, you may know about the one-world government that the Antichrist will control during the Tribulation Period (after the rapture). Another thing to mention is that the world will be in absolute chaos when the global economic collapse occurs. When there's chaos throughout the world, this group that wants a one-world government just might propose their plan, and the people of the world will cling to the idea of stopping the chaos by creating a one-world government. I personally connect all of these things and say that the rapture very much might happen soon.

I have the utmost respect for you Deathstar, but why does every thread you post in have to turn into a church thread? This is not and endtimes thread. The OP has nothing to do with church, or endtimes.


Like others have stated, I think we still need unions in the private sector, but I see no need for unions in public jobs. My wife works(social services) for the state of KY, and it is almost impossible to mistreat or fire one that works for state. They have good insurance, and a pretty good retirement. I can't see where they need a union. I've saw how hard it is to fire bad workers for the state. Believe me, and I am a union man, a slug worker can be fired at the drop of a hat in my field(construction). My union can't save a slug.