Wrestlemania 27

**Stardust** · 03-16-2011, 12:19 PM

LWC Wrote:Your right Dusty, she got a little somethin' going on.

Oops, after I looked at that link again.....

**LWC** · 03-16-2011, 12:22 PM

Don't worry. I didn't dig far.

**Stardust** · 03-16-2011, 12:33 PM

^ LOL :Thumbs:

**Ballers** · 03-17-2011, 08:09 AM

Cena is a disgrace.. Wrestling or on the mic..
He does not have the talent The Rock has in one of the People's Eyebrows.

**Stardust** · 03-17-2011, 08:25 AM

Ballers Wrote:Cena is a disgrace.. Wrestling or on the mic..
He does not have the talent The Rock has in one of the People's Eyebrows.

Yeah, but he is 2nd only to Stone Cold in the history of the WWE. The crowd pops, the PPV buy-rates when he is champions, and the merchandise sales say that more people love him than hate him.

As for Wrestling, the two all-time greatest performers in history that preceed and follow Cena are Stone Cold and Hogan. Hogan was a horrible wrestler. Actually to call him a wrestler is a complete farce. He could not work and was extremely limited. His finisher was a leg drop. Stone Cold was never a great in-ring performer. He could move better than Hogan, but all he did was brawl and then hit the stunner. That was it.

At least Cena has a legit wrestling move as a finisher.

**LWC** · 03-17-2011, 04:43 PM

Stardust Wrote:Yeah, but he is 2nd only to Stone Cold in the history of the WWE. The crowd pops, the PPV buy-rates when he is champions, and the merchandise sales say that more people love him than hate him.

As for Wrestling, the two all-time greatest performers in history that preceed and follow Cena are Stone Cold and Hogan. Hogan was a horrible wrestler. Actually to call him a wrestler is a complete farce. He could not work and was extremely limited. His finisher was a leg drop. Stone Cold was never a great in-ring performer. He could move better than Hogan, but all he did was brawl and then hit the stunner. That was it.

At least Cena has a legit wrestling move as a finisher.

John Cena may be the most controversial great of all time. By controversial I mean that everyone agrees on Rock, Stone Cold, Bret Hart, Hogan, Flair, Sting, Undertaker, Shawn Michaels, etc... You show the number of fans, titles, way he carried the WWE and people will still argue with you on him.

I, personally, do not care for him. That it the worst insult a wrestler could be given. If you hate them, great. If you love them, great. I do, however, appreciate what he has done for wrestling. He helped the WWE push the focus out of the PG-13 era and made it more of a family show (as much as possible today). For that I think he has done well.

Now the show seems to be shifting back to the PG-13 right before Mania to increase the buy-rates. Kids want to see Cena, Teens/Young adults want to see Rock/Trish/Snookie, etc... and adults will just buy it regardless if they are still watching as adults. The young-adult market (18-28) is what they are trying to push right now, and it is obvious.

As I said before, this could be a Top 15 Wrestlemania or a complete bust.

**Mr. Pike Central** · 03-18-2011, 01:21 AM

John Cena busts his tail off, his work ethic is incredible.

Give the man some respect already.

**Stardust** · 03-18-2011, 07:09 AM

^ I agree with you J-Rod. This guy represents the WWE very well. He is an excellent spokesman, we don't hear garbage about his personal life, and he has earned the highest honor in professional wrestling today (That is the respect of Mark Calloway, the Undertaker). UT has put Cena at the top of the roster. Anyone that knows anything about Mean Mark knows that he only puts-over the most respected workers in the business. If he is good enough for the dead-man, then Cena is good enough for me.

LWC, you better than any of us should know what that locker room respect means. If UT has passed on the locker room gavel to Cena, then that must mean something.

**LWC** · 03-18-2011, 11:25 AM

Dusty, I agree with the locker-room respect. Cena seems to have the respect of the locker-room.

However, I am referring to fan respect. John Cena's accomplishments and fan-respect do not necessarily match. Off the top of my head he is a 9-time World Champ, multiple-time tag team champ, I am pretty sure, either Intercontinental or U.S. Champ, Royal Rumble winner, may have even been a PWI Top 5 wrestler of the year a few times. One of the most often overlooked accomplishments by Cena is his historic title run. He had the longest title run in almost 20 years ONLY to be stopped by an injury. The ultimate respect for a wrestler in-ring is not the amount of championships but the time you hold the title.

Often times writers will allow the title to change hands to hype a wrestler or to break a dry-spell. Cena had the longest run in almost 20 years. That means that the show was going well, OR that he was the best of the best for almost a full year. Highest respect from writers and co-workers.

With stats like that and respect from the ones that know exactly what he means to the business, the fan adoration/hate doesn't translate. To the 15+ fans he is not in the same breath as the ones I mentioned above. He had a title reign longer than Stone Cold or The Rock. He has held more titles than but is not in the same fan-class. That is what I am referring to.

John Cena- 16 total championships, 9 world
Stone Cold- 19 total championships, 6 world
The Rock- 16 total championships, 9 world
Bret Hart- 32 (17 in WWE companies, many in very small companies) total championships, 7 world
Shawn Michaels- 14 total championships, 4 world
Ric Flair- 36 total championships, 16 world (Mind-boggling)
Hulk Hogan- 13 total championships (I would have thought more), 12 world
Undertaker- 19 total championships, 8 world (Only find evidence of 7)

You see, championships alone would put him in the same company as everyone else except Flair who is just in a class of his own. I could list more wrestlers but I just wanted to do a few. My point is that he doesn't get the fan respect for how good he truly is. He really can't do much in the ring, but the way he carried the WWE through (in my opinion) in it's weakest time, makes him the Lennox Lewis of pro wrestling.

K_Mac · 03-18-2011, 03:14 PM

Why was Triple H not mentioned above? ^

**LWC** · 03-18-2011, 03:17 PM

K_Mac Wrote:Why was Triple H not mentioned above? ^

LWC Wrote:I could list more wrestlers but I just wanted to do a few.

I answered it in my post.

**Aslan** · 03-18-2011, 04:51 PM

I agree with LWC. There's wrestlers I don't like, but I do respect, like Triple H. I don't really like or respect Cena. I guess it's because he can't appeal to adults in anyway.

**Stardust** · 03-18-2011, 08:16 PM

LWC Wrote:Dusty, I agree with the locker-room respect. Cena seems to have the respect of the locker-room.

However, I am referring to fan respect. John Cena's accomplishments and fan-respect do not necessarily match. Off the top of my head he is a 9-time World Champ, multiple-time tag team champ, I am pretty sure, either Intercontinental or U.S. Champ, Royal Rumble winner, may have even been a PWI Top 5 wrestler of the year a few times. One of the most often overlooked accomplishments by Cena is his historic title run. He had the longest title run in almost 20 years ONLY to be stopped by an injury. The ultimate respect for a wrestler in-ring is not the amount of championships but the time you hold the title.

Often times writers will allow the title to change hands to hype a wrestler or to break a dry-spell. Cena had the longest run in almost 20 years. That means that the show was going well, OR that he was the best of the best for almost a full year. Highest respect from writers and co-workers.

With stats like that and respect from the ones that know exactly what he means to the business, the fan adoration/hate doesn't translate. To the 15+ fans he is not in the same breath as the ones I mentioned above. He had a title reign longer than Stone Cold or The Rock. He has held more titles than but is not in the same fan-class. That is what I am referring to.

John Cena- 16 total championships, 9 world
Stone Cold- 19 total championships, 6 world
The Rock- 16 total championships, 9 world
Bret Hart- 32 (17 in WWE companies, many in very small companies) total championships, 7 world
Shawn Michaels- 14 total championships, 4 world
Ric Flair- 36 total championships, 16 world (Mind-boggling)
Hulk Hogan- 13 total championships (I would have thought more), 12 world
Undertaker- 19 total championships, 8 world (Only find evidence of 7)

You see, championships alone would put him in the same company as everyone else except Flair who is just in a class of his own. I could list more wrestlers but I just wanted to do a few. My point is that he doesn't get the fan respect for how good he truly is. He really can't do much in the ring, but the way he carried the WWE through (in my opinion) in it's weakest time, makes him the Lennox Lewis of pro wrestling.

LWC, you should know better than anyone about why straps are put on guys. It has everything to do with fan respect, or more apt, appeal. You put the strap on the guy for two reasons. Long term appreciation, and in that case the guy who wears it is transitional until the move the title to the guy they want to run. The second is 100% about the fans and nothing more - and that is the fans who pay MONEY!

Cena as I said before is 2nd only to Stone Cold, and he is catching him FAST in total revenue dollars. People pay to see Cena and they pay the most when he is wearing a strap. The little guys push daddy into paying their $49.95 because John Cena is their favorite. The Marks who hate him pay to watch him lose.

Let's not confuse the industry now. During the territorial days, the strap stayed on the champion for years. Look at the runs of Bruno, Backland, Race, Flair, Bockwinkel and Gagne. These guys wore the titles for several years without losing it.

In the 21st century, we all have ADHD. None of us can relax and do the same thing. We are a people of constant want and change. We change our mind every day, and want something new immediately. The World title is a microcosm of our society. We want the title to change several times. In 2011, there is NO FAN that wants to see the title stay on the champion for years.

In the 80's, we could see Flair on Saturday morning, doing an interview but rarely ever wrestling, Saturday night on TBS and Sunday night. There was a total of 4 hours of programming.

Now, we see the champions for 2 hours on Monday, 2 hours on Tuesday, 2 hours on Friday, there is the Superstars hour, Raw Rewind for another hour. Then we have a 3 hour PPV per month along with a new wrestling DVD released monthly. We are over saturated, so the title changes hands on average 3 times per year. And who does the title always come back to? The guy who puts butts in the seats. Right now, it's John Cena. They have tried to make other guys champions and get this train moving in a different direction, but its the fans who always steer the train back to the same stop!

So, I completely disagree with you on the respect thing based on how long you hold the title. These guys don't care about the respect side of it, the only care about the money of it. If Cena is the reason for PPV buyrates, then the guys in the back want him to play the role that gets the most viewers. The most viewers put money in his pocket. Thus, the locker room, the owner, the writers, the bookers, the ring guys - they don't care how long the guy has the title as long as he is still making money. And who generates that money? The fans, and the obvious respect they have for John Cena.

**LWC** · 03-19-2011, 10:19 AM

Stardust Wrote:LWC, you should know better than anyone about why straps are put on guys. It has everything to do with fan respect, or more apt, appeal. You put the strap on the guy for two reasons. Long term appreciation, and in that case the guy who wears it is transitional until the move the title to the guy they want to run. The second is 100% about the fans and nothing more - and that is the fans who pay MONEY!

Cena as I said before is 2nd only to Stone Cold, and he is catching him FAST in total revenue dollars. People pay to see Cena and they pay the most when he is wearing a strap. The little guys push daddy into paying their $49.95 because John Cena is their favorite. The Marks who hate him pay to watch him lose.

Let's not confuse the industry now. During the territorial days, the strap stayed on the champion for years. Look at the runs of Bruno, Backland, Race, Flair, Bockwinkel and Gagne. These guys wore the titles for several years without losing it.

In the 21st century, we all have ADHD. None of us can relax and do the same thing. We are a people of constant want and change. We change our mind every day, and want something new immediately. The World title is a microcosm of our society. We want the title to change several times. In 2011, there is NO FAN that wants to see the title stay on the champion for years.

In the 80's, we could see Flair on Saturday morning, doing an interview but rarely ever wrestling, Saturday night on TBS and Sunday night. There was a total of 4 hours of programming.

Now, we see the champions for 2 hours on Monday, 2 hours on Tuesday, 2 hours on Friday, there is the Superstars hour, Raw Rewind for another hour. Then we have a 3 hour PPV per month along with a new wrestling DVD released monthly. We are over saturated, so the title changes hands on average 3 times per year. And who does the title always come back to? The guy who puts butts in the seats. Right now, it's John Cena. They have tried to make other guys champions and get this train moving in a different direction, but its the fans who always steer the train back to the same stop!

So, I completely disagree with you on the respect thing based on how long you hold the title. These guys don't care about the respect side of it, the only care about the money of it. If Cena is the reason for PPV buyrates, then the guys in the back want him to play the role that gets the most viewers. The most viewers put money in his pocket. Thus, the locker room, the owner, the writers, the bookers, the ring guys - they don't care how long the guy has the title as long as he is still making money. And who generates that money? The fans, and the obvious respect they have for John Cena.

Either you misunderstood or I misspoke, the longest title reign is a respect sign to Cena and it proves how big he is to the fans. Even though PWI listed him as the #1 wrestler of the year, the only younger start besides Cena that had been pushed hard during those years (that is still around) is Randy Orton. He has the mic skills of a farting rat. Cena was and is the WWE right now. Sure, Rock, Austin, Taker, Hunter have all came back but in 2011, they are flashes in the pan. They will be here for Mania, maybe until Summerslam, but they will be gone again.

Cena is the only guy that can carry the spotlight right now. It is all about money and Cena makes the money because, just as you said, the kiddies make the parents buy the tickets. That means at LEAST 2 tickets are sold because of every 1 John Cena fan.

My talk about the title reigns is because so many people don't care for Cena and don't respect him. I was distinguishing my feelings. I don't care for Cena, but I respect the heck out of him. He carried my favorite form of entertainment in it's lowest time (in my opinion)

dangerousdaneerfan · 03-27-2011, 04:33 PM

Wamt to see the King beat the crap out of Michael Cole. MNR has not been the same since Good Old JR when away.

**Stardust** · 03-27-2011, 05:50 PM

LWC Wrote:Either you misunderstood or I misspoke, the longest title reign is a respect sign to Cena and it proves how big he is to the fans. Even though PWI listed him as the #1 wrestler of the year, the only younger start besides Cena that had been pushed hard during those years (that is still around) is Randy Orton. He has the mic skills of a farting rat. Cena was and is the WWE right now. Sure, Rock, Austin, Taker, Hunter have all came back but in 2011, they are flashes in the pan. They will be here for Mania, maybe until Summerslam, but they will be gone again.

Cena is the only guy that can carry the spotlight right now. It is all about money and Cena makes the money because, just as you said, the kiddies make the parents buy the tickets. That means at LEAST 2 tickets are sold because of every 1 John Cena fan.

My talk about the title reigns is because so many people don't care for Cena and don't respect him. I was distinguishing my feelings. I don't care for Cena, but I respect the heck out of him. He carried my favorite form of entertainment in it's lowest time (in my opinion)

I follow you now :Thumbs:

**Stardust** · 03-27-2011, 05:52 PM

dangerousdaneerfan Wrote:Wamt to see the King beat the crap out of Michael Cole. MNR has not been the same since Good Old JR when away.

There is some legitimate heat between Vince and JR. Though he is still on many of the interviews for WWE Video's, he and Vince have not come to terms on getting him back on regular television.

**Mr. Pike Central** · 03-28-2011, 02:34 AM

Michael Cole has been taking his character a little "TOO" serious.

The other day on Twitter he called Josh Matthews a homophobic word.

**Stardust** · 03-28-2011, 12:19 PM

J-Rod Wrote:Michael Cole has been taking his character a little "TOO" serious.

The other day on Twitter he called Josh Matthews a homophobic word.

Lol, maybe it's you getting worked to think he is taking it too seriously :biggrin:

**Aslan** · 03-28-2011, 03:36 PM

J-Rod Wrote:Michael Cole has been taking his character a little "TOO" serious.

The other day on Twitter he called Josh Matthews a homophobic word.

CM Punk plays his gimmick on twitter too. It's actually hilarious.

**LWC** · 03-28-2011, 03:42 PM

I haven't seen the tweet but he might be saying that the use of the particular word was what was taking it too far. Not that he was tweeting.

**Mr. Pike Central** · 03-29-2011, 01:41 AM

Yeah, he said a naughty word.

They made him take it down and apoligize and then GLAAD got involved and yeah...they might have gave him a slap on the wrist.

dangerousdaneerfan · 03-29-2011, 08:54 PM

Micheal Cole had a golden oppertunity to take the mike from JR and make it all his own. He failed to do just that.

**LWC** · 03-29-2011, 09:18 PM

JR>Michael Cole>Coachman

dangerousdaneerfan · 03-30-2011, 01:16 AM

LWC Wrote:JR>Michael Cole>Coachman

>Mike Adamley:lmao:

Was it Adamley that stormed off the Raw announce desk or am I thinking of someone else?

**Mr. Pike Central** · 03-30-2011, 02:05 AM

dangerousdaneerfan Wrote:>Mike Adamley:lmao:

Was it Adamley that stormed off the Raw announce desk or am I thinking of someone else?

Your right, but Joey Styles also did it once he left broadcasting, I remember that worked shoot promo he cut.

It was awesome.

**LWC** · 03-30-2011, 02:54 AM

Man Joey Styles was probably the best play-by-play (or move-by-move) man in the business. I loved watching ECW with Joel Gertner starting the night out with his stuff and Joey doing his commentating. That was great.

dangerousdaneerfan · 03-30-2011, 08:49 PM

J-Rod Wrote:Your right, but Joey Styles also did it once he left broadcasting, I remember that worked shoot promo he cut.

It was awesome.

I remembered 5 seconds after I posted that it was Joey Styles. Styles is and was a **** sight better than Michael Cole. It has not been too many years ago that the lead announcers were pro face and the color guys were pro heel. Cole being pro heel is almost too much to take.

**Mr. Pike Central** · 03-31-2011, 01:55 AM

Let's hear some predictions since the show is this Sunday

John Cena > The Miz (The Rock Will get involved)

Alberto Del Rio > Edge

The Undertaker > Triple H

CM Punk > Randy Orton

Sheamus > Daniel Bryan

Rey Mysterio > Cody Rhodes

Jerry "The King" Lawler > Michael Cole

The Corre > Big Show/Kane/Marella & Kozlov

Snooki/Stratus & Morrison > Ziggler & LayCool

K_Mac · 04-03-2011, 04:19 PM

Anyone know where I can watch wrestlemania tonight online?? Im going to be major disappointed if I miss it. Please helps me out guys.