[K_Mac]

Alright Me and my friend have argued an entire day about Jason Kidd. I say he is a top 5 point guard of all-time. He disagrees because he doesnt have a ring (that could change shortly). What does my friends on BGR have to say? Is Jason Kidd a top 5 Point Guard?

[Strikeout King]

I agree with you K Mac, Top 5

[K_Mac]

I agree with you K Mac, Top 5

Thank you strikeout King. His list of accomplishments and stats are amazing. 2nd all time assist leader, 3rd in steals, 3rd in 3 pointers made, pretty high on the triple double ladder. Only player in the last 10 years to have 3 triple doubles back to back. Only player in NBA history to record at least 15,000 points, 7,000 rebounds, and 10,000 assists in his playing career. Only player in NBA history to record 700 assists and 500 rebounds in a season seven times. Magic Johnson and Oscar Robertson have each done this six times. This isnt to mention numerous all star appearances and NBA first and second teams, defensive 1st and 2nd teams. The guy was amazing in his prime. Considering my age he is my favorite pg ever.

[K_Mac]

Rings dont make the final decision on whether or not Kidd makes the top five in my opinion. I mean K.C. Jones has 8 rings, Slater Martin and Derek Fisher both have 5. But I dont consider any of them in the top 5. Sorry. I mean I have much love for Fish (as well as most Lakers lol) but he isnt no where near a Jason Kidd. Neither are the other guys mentioned.

[Strikeout King]

Thank you strikeout King. His list of accomplishments and stats are amazing. 2nd all time assist leader, 3rd in steals, 3rd in 3 pointers made, pretty high on the triple double ladder. Only player in the last 10 years to have 3 triple doubles back to back. Only player in NBA history to record at least 15,000 points, 7,000 rebounds, and 10,000 assists in his playing career. Only player in NBA history to record 700 assists and 500 rebounds in a season seven times. Magic Johnson and Oscar Robertson have each done this six times. This isnt to mention numerous all star appearances and NBA first and second teams, defensive 1st and 2nd teams. The guy was amazing in his prime. Considering my age he is my favorite pg ever.

indeed my friend

[Stardust]

All time PG???

1. Oscar
2. Magic
3. Isaiah
4. Stockton
5. Cousy

So no, NOT top five

[Strikeout King]

^ I forgot about those. Kidd should be at least a Top 10/Top 15

[Wildcatk23]

I would have took kid over stockton

[MVP2]

Stockon dont have any rings, does that make him not top 5, and I'm pretty sure he has the record for most assits. IMO Kidd is probably not top 5 because of greats to play before him or during his early years but Kidd is very close.

[LWC]

For a person to even be the 6th best at one of the two most important positions on the floor, the person that handles the ball more than anyone else and the "floor general", is certainly not a bad thing.

However, it is tempting to think about Stockton and Kidd. It would be a great debate as to who is better.

[K_Mac]

All time PG???

1. Oscar
2. Magic
3. Isaiah
4. Stockton
5. Cousy

So no, NOT top five

How is Isaiah so high on ur list SD? I mean yes, he was good, even great. But Kid is ahead of him in nearly all statistical categories except championships, in which i believe isaiah only has 2 (could be wrong on that one though). So how does he get put ahead of Kidd?

Only player in the last 10 years to have 3 triple doubles back to back. Only player in NBA history to record at least 15,000 points, 7,000 rebounds, and 10,000 assists in his playing career. Only player in NBA history to record 700 assists and 500 rebounds in a season seven times. Magic Johnson and Oscar Robertson have each done this six times. I wanted to re-mention just 2 of these stats. Compare Jason Kidds stats and accomplishments to anyone in your top five and other then rings, Im willing to bet Kidd leads in nearly every category. PLUS his nick name is "Triple Double King" to do everything he has done in his career, and if he wins a ring this year what more do you want??

[K_Mac]

Playoff Ranks
Ranks #3 in the NBA in Assists Per Game (7.5)
Ranks #33 in the NBA in Three-Point Field-Goal Percentage (0.359)
Ranks #4 in the NBA in Steals Per Game (2.15)
Ranks #37 in the NBA in Minutes Per Game (34.2)
Ranks #1 in the NBA in Minutes Played (445)
Ranks #7 in the NBA in Field Goals Made (44)
Ranks #3 in the NBA in Field Goal Attempts (109)
Ranks #1 in the NBA in Three-Point Field Goals Made (28)
Ranks #1 in the NBA in Three-Point Field Goal Attempts (78)
Ranks #3 in the NBA in Defensive Rebounds (51)
Ranks #45 in the NBA in Defensive Rebounds Per Game (3.9)
Ranks #8 in the NBA in Total Rebounds (56)
Ranks #1 in the NBA in Assists (98)
Ranks #1 in the NBA in Steals (28)
Ranks #27 in the NBA in Blocks (5)
Ranks #7 in the NBA in Points (130)
Ranks #11 in the NBA in Assists Per Turnover (3.16)
Ranks #16 in the NBA in Steals Per Turnover (0.9)
Ranks #16 in the NBA in Three-Point Field Goals Per 48 Minutes (3.02)
Ranks #4 in the NBA in Assists Per 48 Minutes (10.6)
Ranks #6 in the NBA in Steals Per 48 Minutes (3.02)
Ranks #2 in the NBA in Total Turnovers (31)
Ranks #1 in the NBA in Total Efficiency Points (217)
Ranks #33 in the NBA in Efficiency Ranking (16.69)
Ranks #39 in the NBA in Efficiency Ranking Per 48 Minutes (23.41)
Ranks #22 in the NBA in Turnovers Per Game (2.38)
Ranks #30 in the NBA in Turnovers Per 48 Minutes (3.34)

Nothing lower then 45th in anything. And most stats are in the top 10.

[LWC]

K_Mac, I don't like to side with Dusty, but Oscar is ahead of Jason Kidd. Jason may be called the Triple Double King, but Oscar averaged a triple double for an entire season!

.........plus he would probably be considered a member or the Kings family, since he played for the Royals.

[K_Mac]

Regular Season Standings

Ranks #3 in the NBA in Assists Per Game (8.2)
Ranks #9 in the NBA in Steals Per Game (1.68)
Ranks #1 in the NBA in Minutes Played (2653)
Ranks #1 in the NBA in Three-Point Field Goals Made (133)
Ranks #1 in the NBA in Three-Point Field Goal Attempts (391)
Ranks #1 in the NBA in Assists (655)
Ranks #1 in the NBA in Steals (134)
Ranks #5 in the NBA in Assists Per Turnover (3.66)
Ranks #22 in the NBA in Steals Per Turnover (0.75)
Ranks #1 in the NBA in Triple-doubles (2)
Ranks #27 in the NBA in Three-Point Field Goals Per 48 Minutes (2.41)
Ranks #3 in the NBA in Assists Per 48 Minutes (11.9)
Ranks #13 in the NBA in Steals Per 48 Minutes (2.42)

These are stats from NBA.com

[K_Mac]

K_Mac, I don't like to side with Dusty, but Oscar is ahead of Jason Kidd. Jason may be called the Triple Double King, but Oscar averaged a triple double for an entire season!

.........plus he would probably be considered a member or the Kings family, since he played for the Royals.

I dont disagree on Oscar lol. Or Magic.

[K_Mac]

Only player in NBA history to record at least 15,000 points, 7,000 rebounds, and 10,000 assists in his playing career

Only player in NBA history to record 700 assists and 500 rebounds in a season seven times. Magic Johnson and Oscar Robertson have each done this six times.

One of two players in NBA history to average a triple-double in a playoff series of at least six games

Kidd averaged 17.5 points, 11.2 rebounds and 10.2 assists per game in the 2002 Eastern Conference Finals for the New Jersey Nets vs. Boston Celtics
Kidd achieved this feat again in the 2007 Eastern Conference First Round vs. the Toronto Raptors, averaging 14.0 points, 10.0 rebounds, and 13.2 assists per game.
Earvin "Magic" Johnson is the only other player to achieve this.
Second player in NBA history to average a triple-double for an entire postseason

Kidd finished with averages of 14.6 points, 10.9 rebounds and 10.9 assists in 12 games during the 2007 NBA playoffs.[10]
Oscar Robertson averaged 28.8 points, 11.0 assists and 11.0 rebounds in 4 games in a 3–1 first-round loss in 1962.
One of three players to average a triple-double for multiple playoff series

Earvin "Magic" Johnson and Wilt Chamberlain also achieved this.[8]
One of three players in NBA history to have at least 15,000 points and 10,000 assists in his career

Fourth player in NBA history to record 10,000 assists

Fourth player in NBA history to lead the league in assist-per-game average for 3 consecutive seasons

Bob Cousy, Oscar Robertson, John Stockton, and later Steve Nash, achieved this.
One of five players to average a triple-double for a playoff series

Earvin "Magic" Johnson, Wilt Chamberlain, Oscar Robertson and Fat Lever also achieved this.[7]
One of three players in NBA history to record at least 15 points, 15 rebounds, and 15 assists in a playoff game[24]

Wilt Chamberlain and Fat Lever also achieved this.
Only player in the past 10 years to record a triple-double in three consecutive games — 02008-01-04 January 4, 2008 to 02008-01-08 January 8, 2008

11th player in NBA history to reach 2,000 career steals

A few other things I could find.

[Aslan]

He would be in my top 5. You made a great case K_ Mac
1. Magic
2. Oscar
3. Thomas
4. Stockton
5. Kidd
Never seen Bob Cousy play so I really can't comment on his ability.

[Stardust]

Stats don't always indicate greatness. Take it from the NBA players who all say Oscar might even be equal to MJ. Kidd is good, but when has anyone, players, coaches or analysts called him a SUPER STAR! Isaiah is someone that I never liked, ever! But to not call him a superstar is nuts. Isaiah was one of the best leaders in the NBA. He was not a stat guy, he was a winner and found ways to win basketball games.

How is Isaiah so high on ur list SD? I mean yes, he was good, even great. But Kid is ahead of him in nearly all statistical categories except championships, in which i believe isaiah only has 2 (could be wrong on that one though). So how does he get put ahead of Kidd?

Only player in the last 10 years to have 3 triple doubles back to back. Only player in NBA history to record at least 15,000 points, 7,000 rebounds, and 10,000 assists in his playing career. Only player in NBA history to record 700 assists and 500 rebounds in a season seven times. Magic Johnson and Oscar Robertson have each done this six times. I wanted to re-mention just 2 of these stats. Compare Jason Kidds stats and accomplishments to anyone in your top five and other then rings, Im willing to bet Kidd leads in nearly every category. PLUS his nick name is "Triple Double King" to do everything he has done in his career, and if he wins a ring this year what more do you want??

[LWC]

I bet I know someone that will put Stockton at #1 hh:

[Stardust]

^ Stockton may have been the toughest pound for pound in the history of the game

[Stardust]

Would Pistol Pete be considered a PG???

[LWC]

Would Pistol Pete be considered a PG???

By today's standards he would probably be a combo-guard, but he shot the ball too much for me to call him a PG. However, when you are the floor-general, and your best option was for you to shoot, you gotta do what is best for your team. In that regard, he might be a PG. I'm not sure what he was, lol.

[Hoot Gibson]

All time PG???

1. Oscar
2. Magic
3. Isaiah
4. Stockton
5. Cousy

So no, NOT top five

Great list. Kidd may belong near the bottom of the Top 10 but Frazier and Archibald also probably belong ranked above him.

Something that I did not realize before about Oscar - he not only averaged a triple-double for an entire season, he averaged a triple-double over the first five seasons of his career when you string the games together.

Still, I would probably rank Magic #1 as a point guard and as a player. He could play any position and dominate his opponent at any of them. As a rookie in the NBA finals against the Sixers, his 42 points, 15 rebounds, 7 assists, and 3 steals while playing center in place of Abdul-Jabbar to clinch the title was the best individual effort that I have ever seen by any player.

I don't know of any other player who could have switched from playing guard to center as a rookie with the championship on the line and still turn in that kind of performance. Magic understood the game like very few NBA head coaches ever will.

Jason Kidd also has a great feel for the game but he has never been a very good shooter and he is not 6'8".

[Wildcatk23]

Regular Season Standings

Ranks #3 in the NBA in Assists Per Game (8.2)
Ranks #9 in the NBA in Steals Per Game (1.68)
Ranks #1 in the NBA in Minutes Played (2653)
Ranks #1 in the NBA in Three-Point Field Goals Made (133)
Ranks #1 in the NBA in Three-Point Field Goal Attempts (391)
Ranks #1 in the NBA in Assists (655)
Ranks #1 in the NBA in Steals (134)
Ranks #5 in the NBA in Assists Per Turnover (3.66)
Ranks #22 in the NBA in Steals Per Turnover (0.75)
Ranks #1 in the NBA in Triple-doubles (2)
Ranks #27 in the NBA in Three-Point Field Goals Per 48 Minutes (2.41)
Ranks #3 in the NBA in Assists Per 48 Minutes (11.9)
Ranks #13 in the NBA in Steals Per 48 Minutes (2.42)

These are stats from NBA.com

What stats are these? Post season or season??

Because it may be a bit incorrect if its for the 2011 season. Seeing how kidd was like 5th for regular season assist a game. And Nash led the NBA per game.

Or is this all time?

[zaga_fan]

I bet I know someone that will put Stockton at #1 hh:

lol
Kidd would be in my top 5.
I'm not old enough to comment on Bob Cousy or Oscar Robertson but their numbers speak for themselves.

I know Stockton didn't get a ring and all that jazz...
but he will always be #1 on every PG list I shell out
You're talking to the zaga_fan, c'mon lol

All-Time Assists
1)John Stockton 15,806
2)Jason Kidd 11,578
3)Mark Jackson 10,334


All-Time Steals
1)John Stockton 3,265
2)Michael Jordan 2,514
3)Jason Kidd 2,477

Everyone puts a few other guys ahead of him but I can promise you no one will EVER eclipse those numbers.

[LeeCoUKFan]

IMO, I would put Jason Kidd in the Top 10 PG's of all time but not Top 5.

[K_Mac]

I can see a lot of you disagreed with me. I noticed a few who agreed though. Regardless no one posted anything to show me that Kidd shouldnt be in the top five pg's of all time. And considering he is the best pg of my time, im sticking with my opinion. Jason Kidd rounds out the top 5 greatest pg's to play the game.

[Hoot Gibson]

Jason Kidd is a career 40% shooter. There is no way he belongs in the top 5. His most impressive stats are totals - not averages. Longevity doesn't vault a player to the top of the list of all time greats.

[Stardust]

Jason Kidd is a career 40% shooter. There is no way he belongs in the top 5. His most impressive stats are totals - not averages. Longevity doesn't vault a player to the top of the list of all time greats.

Agreed Hoot. Does Dave Kingman go into the HOF or be considered a SUPER STAR because of his HR total? No! Jason Kidd was never EVER considered an elite player! Great total statistics, but never a Super Star.

And that's not MY opinion, it's FACT!

[Ballers]

Possible top 10, not top 5.