[laker20]

You people still don't see the problem with this situation. It isn't about black, white, all the other kids that died that same day, or the media. It's about the fact that it happened, and the Sanford police department was starting to sweep it under the rug and hide it. They had no intentions of looking into the situation that happened, until the cry from the kids family, media and the "Sharpton's" got the rest of the world involved. They said as much, they were citing the " you don't have to back down" law. Only after the outcry started, did they start backing up and investigating it.

Who are you referring to as "You People"? Is it everyone who has a different opinion of what the agenda of the "Sharpton's" involvement is? I assume it to be directed that way, and being as that you quoted me, then I will respond what we people see with this situation.

We see a young man that is dead, and another man who will probably loose everything. We see an investigation that probably has little to no chance of ever providing the true facts of what took place due to the number of outsiders spewing their opinions of what might have taken place or what was or wasn't being done about it. We see the Sharpton types spewing prejudices in almost every sentence while claiming that their intent is to eliminate prejudices. We see people using this tragic event as a means of furthering their cause.....not with the intent of providing "The Truth". In fact, we see it as a deterrent to keep the truth from covering up the spin that has been place on it.

Whether you can admit it or not, it is a race issue because that is the way that it's been spun. The Sharpton's and the rest of world would have never gotten involved if not for the differing races involved in the tragedy. In fact, they would have never been involved if the only factor that changed was Trayvon was white or asian, or hispanic.

If this were my child, I would want to know the truth. I would want to know that the authorities were doing everything in their abilities to provide the details of what took place and if a criminal act took place then it be fully prosecuted. But I would not want the death of my child to be used as a conduit to spread further racial divide, and that's what's taking place. That's why the Panthers are placing a bounty on Zimmerman's head, that's why Spike Lee tweeted what he thought was Zimmerman's address. Those things are absolutely racially motivated because this has become about color.

My belief is that the forefathers who designed our democracy provided us with a judicial system that provides us with the opportunity and prosecute those who commit crimes, but does it's best to prohibit the prosecution of an innocent individual. That's why we have "presumed innocence." Our toleration of this form of public prosecution is a form of marshal law that's just slightly across the line from what Zimmerman is being accused of.

It shouldn't be about color, race, religion or anything else. Unfortunately it is now whether or not it was that way to begin with. I apologize if my opinion is hard for some of you to understand. Nonetheless, it is intended with no disrespect to the loss of this young man's life.

[Granny Bear]

"It shouldn't be about color, race, religion or anything else. Unfortunately it is now whether or not it was that way to begin with. I apologize if my opinion is hard for some of you to understand. Nonetheless, it is intended with no disrespect to the loss of this young man's life."

This isn't difficult to understand, and IMO is not a hard opinion, rather facts.

I've avoided posting on this subject because I do not want to be misunderstood. There are posters that I have grown to care very much about who are on opposites sides of this "debate" (want for a better term).

There is no doubt that a travesty in justice has happened here, and that travesty has resulted in a young man losing his life. NOW, I don't personally give a damn about the color of his skin or the race/creed/religious preference of his killer. None of those facts change the ending result in the slightest, and it is STILL a horrible situation.

I, too, believe that Sharpton and a couple of other people have used certain outlets as a means to spread this terrible incident and to slant facts about this young life to promote their personal agendas. Whether the shooting was racially motivated or not, they have indicated that it is.

Using this young man's death as a means to promote their personal agendas is sickening to me.

[TheRealVille]

"It shouldn't be about color, race, religion or anything else. Unfortunately it is now whether or not it was that way to begin with. I apologize if my opinion is hard for some of you to understand. Nonetheless, it is intended with no disrespect to the loss of this young man's life."

This isn't difficult to understand, and IMO is not a hard opinion, rather facts.

I've avoided posting on this subject because I do not want to be misunderstood. There are posters that I have grown to care very much about who are on opposites sides of this "debate" (want for a better term).

There is no doubt that a travesty in justice has happened here, and that travesty has resulted in a young man losing his life. NOW, I don't personally give a damn about the color of his skin or the race/creed/religious preference of his killer. None of those facts change the ending result in the slightest, and it is STILL a horrible situation.

I, too, believe that Sharpton and a couple of other people have used certain outlets as a means to spread this terrible incident and to slant facts about this young life to promote their personal agendas. Whether the shooting was racially motivated or not, they have indicated that it is.

Using this young man's death as a means to promote their personal agendas is sickening to me.

You are pretty much a new comer to this board granny, but I can tell you how it would go on here if it was a white kid that got killed by a hispanic. The usual suspects on this board would be calling for locking down the borders, and going on a manhunt for the Mexican that killed the kid. That's a fact, I heard this crap from them for years now.

[RunItUpTheGut]

When I think I've seen it all in my lifetime, I come to this thread and see without a doubt the dumbest thing ever posted on this site (and that's saying something) I won't even begin to debate you two on this, but wow. Just forget about history? I guess teachers should skip teaching the holocaust as well because it may anger Jews? It's scary to think that you two either have kids or will reproduce in the future and pass these ideas to your kids.



You're right, I mean segregation and discrimination have only been around for thousands of years, but in 10-20 it will disappear all of the sudden. In 20 years (2032), people born in 1950 will be 82 years old. Brown V. Board which "ended" school segregation was passed in 1957. The last schools to desegregate were in 1970. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 "ended" discrimination and segregation but none of those businesses abided by it for years. But you're right. in 10-20 years it will all be better.:igiveup:

I meant it is now illegal dumbass.
If someone is segregated against now, they can take their matter up with law enforcement while back 50 years ago they couldnt.
Let me rephrase so your butt doesnt hurt......In 10 to 20 years there will no longer be anyone living that hasnt had the same rights as everyone else in this country.

[RunItUpTheGut]

Exactly!

Why the hell do people keep trying to turn this into a damn political discussion when it's NOT!?

I dont believe anyone on here is, but turn the tv on and every media outlet in the country is doing just that.

[RunItUpTheGut]

Vundy, of all people I would have thought that you would be able to see that as far as the news is concerned, color is the story. That's why it's a WHITE Hispanic shooter. Do you think for one second that since this story broke that their hasn't been the death of a child where the circumstances were even more sad?



I agree 100% that this was a horrific event and that any time a life is taken prematurely (young or old) that is truly sad, but there would be no national coverage if a young Caucasian male was shot by a black man. This shit does happen every day, every single day. In 2009, there were 13,756 murders reported in the US. Of those, 650 (1.78 per day) were kids under the age of 12.

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2...2s0311.pdf

Let's put all those 650 murders on the front page. How about 9 year old Savannah Hardin, who died on 2/23/12 from dehydration because her mother forced her to run for 3-hours as punishment for eating cookies. For eating cookies. You don't see the black panthers calling for her mom's head.......you don't see Spike Lee tweeting her address. And you most certainly didn't see the CNN, CBS, FOX, ABC or any other major network out in front of her house for weeks saying how horrible her mother is. But this is just as tragic, just as horrific, and just as saddening as Trayvon Martin's death.



You obviously don't know me, and have no clue what I do for others or what I've sacrificed in my life. And your anger over someone having a different opinion only shows that it is you that needs to grow up.

Some of us are merely saying that the marketing of this story is almost as sad as the event itself. Both are signs of an unhealthy society.

I understand exactly what your saying laker.
I know some on here doesnt understand where your coming from and are ready to cry foul after reading your post, but you'll never get your point acorss without ridicule.
Were not the ones trying to make this about race people. Its what happens though every time this sort of thing does. First of all, i assume just about everyone on this thread is white. Well, the shooter is hispanic, so for anyone to say that is the reason for calling bull shit doesnt even understand the facts. BTW, theres no such thing as a "white hispanic", your either white or hispanic, and this dude is hispanic.

The point were trying to get across is the fact that these groups led by sharpton and other couldnt give two shits about this kid. Its about getting their own personal agendas across.
While this is tragic, as laker said it happens everyday, so wheres those stories at as well? You mean to tell me that when that casey anthony shit was going on there were no other little girls murdered in the US? While tragic, this stuff gets taken to a whole new level each time someone wants their face on television.
As for my thoughts, let the facts speak for themselves and if this guy murdered this kid without anything going on prior to that, hang his ass.

[RunItUpTheGut]

You people still don't see the problem with this situation. It isn't about black, white, all the other kids that died that same day, or the media. It's about the fact that it happened, and the Sanford police department was starting to sweep it under the rug and hide it. They had no intentions of looking into the situation that happened, until the cry from the kids family, media and the "Sharpton's" got the rest of the world involved. They said as much, they were citing the " you don't have to back down" law. Only after the outcry started, did they start backing up and investigating it.

I think everyone sees that problem exactly.
Once again, as you said its not about race, but some people getting their jollies off making it seem that way to get their own agendas across.
Once again, it shouldnt be a national issue, rather a local one.
The only thing this is going to do is get a murderer off scotch free because people will already have their opinions.

[laker20]

You are pretty much a new comer to this board granny, but I can tell you how it would go on here if it was a white kid that got killed by a hispanic. The usual suspects on this board would be calling for locking down the borders, and going on a manhunt for the Mexican that killed the kid. That's a fact, I heard this crap from them for years now.

I would think that since this discussion began there have been several white kids killed by hispanics (and other whites, and blacks, etc.) Again, look at the numbers. However, in the event that your hypothetical situation occurred, I would fully expect the ACLU and Sharpton to assure that the accused Mexican was innocent and call for the heads of his accusers.

Once again your showing how one dimensional you think, and since you have no valid argument to counter what we've said, you're trying to turn the discussion. I can assure you that if it is an intelligent debate that you wish to have, you will find that you are severely out gunned.

[TheRealVille]

I would think that since this discussion began there have been several white kids killed by hispanics (and other whites, and blacks, etc.) Again, look at the numbers. However, in the event that your hypothetical situation occurred, I would fully expect the ACLU and Sharpton to assure that the accused Mexican was innocent and call for the heads of his accusers.

Once again your showing how one dimensional you think, and since you have no valid argument to counter what we've said, you're trying to turn the discussion. I can assure you that if it is an intelligent debate that you wish to have, you will find that you are severely out gunned.

The topic is that the Sanford police weren't going to do shit, until the others got involved. They were ready to let Zimmerman off scott free until they got caught in the act.


You think pretty highly of yourself, feel free to cock and fire any time your ready. No one is debating whether Sharpton and the boys have an agenda. The only problem that others and I have with the situation is that you conservatives turn every discussion into a political one, and the fact that the authorities were in the process of sweeping the whole thing under the rug.

[TheRealVille]

I would think that since this discussion began there have been several white kids killed by hispanics (and other whites, and blacks, etc.) Again, look at the numbers. However, in the event that your hypothetical situation occurred, I would fully expect the ACLU and Sharpton to assure that the accused Mexican was innocent and call for the heads of his accusers.

Once again your showing how one dimensional you think, and since you have no valid argument to counter what we've said, you're trying to turn the discussion. I can assure you that if it is an intelligent debate that you wish to have, you will find that you are severely out gunned.

Kind of like you and your ilk are trying to turn it from the fact that a kid got killed and nothing was being done, to make the discussion about politics and the "Sharptons"?

[TheRealVille]

Crickets from Laker. That's what I expected. From someone that is "outgunning" someone, I would expect more from you. I can tell you right now, if you think you have big guns, your wife has has lied to you, bigtime.

[TheRealThing]

^There is much more to this situation than what you want to focus on. The state of Florida has a lot of laws on the books that cops enforce and the people live by. Some things are obviously discernible from up here in Kentucky and can be discussed in a reasonable manner and some can't. If I didn't know better I would think some on here saw the whole thing.

This whole thing is very reminiscent of the days when hundreds of lawyers decended on the state of Florida, mostly from Cook County, due to cries of voter disenfranchisement of certain minority groups. Back then the MEDIA were reporting 24/7 about hispanics and blacks that were supposedly not allowed to vote or, their ballots were discounted. Remember the 'hanging chad' saga? The very same players were involved in that one too, Jackson, Sharpton et-al. They played the race card and the whole thing was sensationalized beyond belief. Most government agencies and police departments just throw up the white flag when lawyers for the NAACP, or the ACLU start talking minority rights. It's the Rook of legal trump cards and it is played somewhere in this land every darn day.

The media did make a lot of noise in this matter and were largely responsible for getting the police to take another look at this thing. But, they played the race card in doing it. At any rate, it is hard to understand the flaming hostility with regard to posts we make about this case on here.

[laker20]

Kind of like you and your ilk are trying to turn it from the fact that a kid got killed and nothing was being done, to make the discussion about politics and the "Sharptons"?

I'm not 100% sure who you are classing me with, but I am of the Think for yourself, Do for yourself Clan. My people don't require the empty skirts and suits of the television to define what our opinions should be, we develop them for ourselves. My people don't require others to provide for us, we provide for ourselves and others. My people are proud to be from the greatest nation, despite the fact that some of you are trying to desecrate the core values that established it. My people believe that we are one nation, under god, undivided, while others preach that we're divided by race, religion, income, those with healthcare and those without. My people fought for and continue to fight for our freedom so that even the ignorant among us are afforded the opportunity to spew mis-truths. What ilk are you?

Crickets from Laker. That's what I expected. From someone that is "outgunning" someone, I would expect more from you. I can tell you right now, if you think you have big guns, your wife has has lied to you, bigtime.

Chirp, chirp, chirp. A well timed pause can be priceless for effect. In fact, my point couldn't be emphasized any better than to allow you to continue to rant with ignorance and immaturity. However, I do feel a quote of some sort belongs here, but I simply can't decide which is best:

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
-Albert Einstein

"The ugly and the stupid have the best of it in this world. They can sit at their ease and gape at the play. If they know nothing of victory, they are at least spared the knowledge of defeat."
-Oscar Wilde

"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and consciencious stupidity."
-Martin Luther King, Jr.

"We have no words for speaking of wisdom to the stupid. He who understands the wise is wise already."
-G.C. Lichtenberg

[TheRealVille]

I'm not 100% sure who you are classing me with, but I am of the Think for yourself, Do for yourself Clan. My people don't require the empty skirts and suits of the television to define what our opinions should be, we develop them for ourselves. My people don't require others to provide for us, we provide for ourselves and others. My people are proud to be from the greatest nation, despite the fact that some of you are trying to desecrate the core values that established it. My people believe that we are one nation, under god, undivided, while others preach that we're divided by race, religion, income, those with healthcare and those without. My people fought for and continue to fight for our freedom so that even the ignorant among us are afforded the opportunity to spew mis-truths. What ilk are you?




Chirp, chirp, chirp. A well timed pause can be priceless for effect. In fact, my point couldn't be emphasized any better than to allow you to continue to rant with ignorance and immaturity. However, I do feel a quote of some sort belongs here, but I simply can't decide which is best:

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
-Albert Einstein

"The ugly and the stupid have the best of it in this world. They can sit at their ease and gape at the play. If they know nothing of victory, they are at least spared the knowledge of defeat."
-Oscar Wilde

"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and consciencious stupidity."
-Martin Luther King, Jr.

"We have no words for speaking of wisdom to the stupid. He who understands the wise is wise already."
-G.C. Lichtenberg

This post has what to do with the fact that a kid was killed, and the police were going to let the killer off scot free? Again you and "your people" are making it a political discussion. It's not. It's about justice for a dead kid that the police of Sanford had no intentions of vilifying.

[TheRealVille]

Zimmerman says they he and he and the kid were the only ones present. An audio expert has come to the conclusion that the screams on the 911 call(from the woman that called) were not from Zimmerman. That only leaves Trayvon to do the screaming, and calling for help.

Analysis of the emergency phone call made just before the unarmed African American teenager Trayvon Martin was killed in Sanford, Florida, have cast further doubt on the story of George Zimmerman that he carried out the shooting in self-defence.

Zimmerman has claimed that the voice screaming on the 911 call was his own. He told police that Martin attacked him, punched him to the ground and bashed his head against the pavement before Zimmerman pulled the trigger.

But voice experts contacted by the Orlando Sentinel told the newspaper that in their opinion the screams were almost certainly not made by Zimmerman, but were more likely to have come from Martin.

Since the shooting on 26 February, information leaked from the police inquiry has purported to show that Zimmerman was acting in self-defence. He has yet to be charged, having claimed immunity under Florida's controversial "stand your ground law". But in the past few days details have emerged that cast doubt on this version of events.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/apr...ll-screams

[Wildcatk23]

Zimmerman says they he and he and the kid were the only ones present. An audio expert has come to the conclusion that the screams on the 911 call(from the woman that called) were not from Zimmerman. That only leaves Trayvon to do the screaming, and calling for help.




http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/apr...ll-screams

There opinion? Are they specialist or not?

[RunItUpTheGut]

lol @ how everything gets turned into a political discussion on here.

[Hoot Gibson]

There opinion? Are they specialist or not?

It was reported previously that the police played the 911 recording for Trayvon Martin's father and he said that the voice on the tape was not his son's. Maybe he was mistaken, maybe he has changed his mind, or maybe the experts that the media contacted were mistaken. It is strange that the media is no longer mentioning the police interview in stories about the screams for help. Zimmerman's brother says that it is his brother's voice on the recording. Of course everybody giving their opinion in this case has a motive to lie for one reason or another.

[TheRealVille]

There opinion? Are they specialist or not?

Yes, they are specialist. They said that the screams weren't Zimmerman. He is offering a professional opinion.

[TheRealVille]

It was reported previously that the police played the 911 recording for Trayvon Martin's father and he said that the voice on the tape was not his son's. Maybe he was mistaken, maybe he has changed his mind, or maybe the experts that the media contacted were mistaken. It is strange that the media is no longer mentioning the police interview in stories about the screams for help. Zimmerman's brother says that it is his brother's voice on the recording. Of course everybody giving their opinion in this case has a motive to lie for one reason or another.

Zimmerman said it was his voice on the call that he made. The other 911 call was the one the woman made. Comparing the two recordings, where one is Zimmerman, and the other that has the screams. Zimmerman claims that the screams are him being attacked when the recording was played for him, but the expert says it is not him.

[Granny Bear]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/04/02/nbc...-shooting/

[laker20]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/04/02/nbc...-shooting/

^ I sure am glad that media & special interests aren't making it out to be about skin color. Aren't you RealVille?

[TheRealVille]

^ I sure am glad that media & special interests aren't making it out to be about skin color. Aren't you RealVille?

Does that make the real facts of the case any less real? Does that make Martin's screams any less real? Does that make the gun shot any less real?

[Granny Bear]

^^
Not my intention to do any of those vile things!! I purposely didn't post a comment, so that you could read and draw your own conclusions.....unlike the media.

I NEVER contended the guilt or innocence of any of the people caught up in this act. My accusation was soley that certain people manipulate the FACTS to promote their personal agenda. I think this scenario confirms that fact.

[TheRealThing]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/04/02/nbc...-shooting/

Thanks for posting the link Granny Bear. The article confirms yet again what I have been saying since the Clinton years. The media is biased. Dan Rather propped up a baseless story with contrived evidence, for which he was fired from the CBS anchorchair, when he tried to make George W look like he was hiding a bad war record. And here we have the latest media embarrassment as an edited tape was aired on NBC's Today Show, SHOCKER!, making Zimmerman appear racist. It is truly rediculous to sit up here in Kentucky and act like an authority on what happened in this matter. Nobody knows yet what happened and how.

[OffTheHook]

This case is so screwed up and tainted. Don't be suprised if nothing comes of it. Too many people with too many different stories.

[Hoot Gibson]

Does that make the real facts of the case any less real? Does that make Martin's screams any less real? Does that make the gun shot any less real?

No but it does show that the left, including their allies in the media, are sensationalizing this story and emphasizing the racial angle of this story for political reasons. Those of you who continue to deny that this story has been nationalized for the political benefit of certain people choose to ignore all evidence to the contrary. NBC editing the 911 call to make Zimmerman sound racist, when in fact he was simply answering a question by the dispatcher about Martin's race is a big deal. So is the fact that the media, including Fox News, continues to use an old photo of Martin that gives the impression that the victim was a 13 or 14 year old.

[laker20]

Does that make the real facts of the case any less real? Does that make Martin's screams any less real? Does that make the gun shot any less real?

If you go back through my posts, then you require no more than 6-year-old reasoning to see that at no point do I insinuate that this is not horrific tragedy. You can try to turn my words into something they're not if you choose. However, my point since my first post was that the American public (all political parties) continues to allow tragedies such as this to be exploited to further an agenda that's unrelated to the event. Somehow the facts aren't important, the details are skewed, truth takes a back seat to "so called" justice.

Let's hypothetically reverse this shooting. Say a black man shot and killed a "White-Hispanic" young man. It would be no less tragic, but would we have a major story? What if (in this reversed scenario) we did exactly what Sharpton and others are calling for?............charge and convict the shooter on the few sketchy facts that seem to be available. What if the KKK was calling for the head of the shooter? We'd have Sharpton and others pleading on behalf of the shooter on how unjust this is and how a black man is allowed the same due process that a white man has, that a black man is being prematurely tried because of skin color.

Neither scenario is right and neither scenario is just for both individuals. Yet somehow we quantify that one persons desire for perceived justice takes presidence over the others right to the same.

I never once said that this case didn't matter, that the loss of the young man's life wasn't tragic. It's just sad that we continue to allow the media (conservative & liberal), to persuade the facts when we know that none of what they have to say is without bias. Individually we need to quit being mindless followers with no reasoning and become leaders who seek truth.

[Granny Bear]

[U]"Individually we need to quit being mindless followers with no reasoning and become leaders who seek truth." [/U]

Well said.

[TheRealThing]

[U]"Individually we need to quit being mindless followers with no reasoning and become leaders who seek truth." [/U]

Well said.

Totally agree, and the fact that FOX News is as guilty on this matter as the rest is the very reason I have asserted on here in the past, on more than one occasion, that I take very little of what I hear in the news at face value. FOX does have some conservative shows and precious few conservative leaning anchors. However, to say the likes of Sheppard Smith, Megyn Kelly, Bill Hemmer, Martha MacCallum and others are conservative, just is not true.