[TheRealVille]

HaHa..you have no idea who my party line is. You are useless to debate with, you take backwater on your post and change them around and then turn everything into a political fight. Im done with ya.

That's what I thought.

[Crossbones]

That's what I thought.

you don't think enough, thats the problem

[Hoot Gibson]

The police told him not to follow him, that is stalking.

We don't live in a police state, no thanks to Obama and his supporters. A dispatcher asked Zimmerman if he was following Martin and why Zimmerman replied that he was, the dispatcher told him, "We don’t need you to do that." Do you know whether the 911 dispatcher was a police employee or had any police experience besides answering the phone?

You don't seem to understand the purpose of neighborhood watch groups. I think that Zimmerman made a mistake getting out of his vehicle but I don't blame him for following Martin if he thought that he was behaving suspiciously. Having a neighborhood watch group that just peeks through their curtains and is afraid to patrol their own neighborhoods would not be very effective in deterring crime, IMO.

[nky]

According to "Stand your ground" yes it is if you feel threatened.

Seems like Trayvon was the aggressor

[TheRealVille]

We don't live in a police state, no thanks to Obama and his supporters. A dispatcher asked Zimmerman if he was following Martin and why Zimmerman replied that he was, the dispatcher told him, "We don’t need you to do that." Do you know whether the 911 dispatcher was a police employee or had any police experience besides answering the phone?

You don't seem to understand the purpose of neighborhood watch groups. I think that Zimmerman made a mistake getting out of his vehicle but I don't blame him for following Martin if he thought that he was behaving suspiciously. Having a neighborhood watch group that just peeks through their curtains and is afraid to patrol their own neighborhoods would not be very effective in deterring crime,IMO.

If you had listened to the call, you would know that the Sanford police department answered the call.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/videogall...von-Martin


2nd bold:
Or buying tea and skittles.

[TheRealVille]

Why don't you folks just admit the truth about your thoughts. Martin was black, the media pandered to the "Sharptons", and more republicans are taking sides with Zimmerman because of it. Hell, at least be honest.

[OrangenowBlue]

Seems like Trayvon was the aggressor

Maybe he felt threatened. According to Florida law if that was the issue, he was in his right to attack. He was walking home from the store. He was followed by some dude that may have look suspicious to him. They got into an altercation and he was shot and killed. Most people in the US who shoot unarmed individuals are usually criminally charged, which he eventually was. Why don't we let the court system decide his fate. IMO, this opens up a can of worms. If a skinny scrawny person feels threatened or gets into an altercation with a big, strong bad ass, no matter who is at fault, he has the right to KILL him if he feels like he is in danger of getting hurt or something worse.

[TheRealThing]

Why don't you folks just admit the truth about your thoughts. Martin was black, the media pandered to the "Sharptons", and more republicans are taking sides with Zimmerman because of it. Hell, at least be honest.

I don't mind a bit to admit the truth about my thoughts. My thoughts are you've been wrong umpteen times about this case, and have failed to admit it. "Most folks" stepped back for a minute when they found out the 911 tape had been edited by a dishonest, liberal zealot, specifically to implicate Zimmerman, "most folks" questioned why the liberal media misrepresented the facts of the case, and falsely reported that their were no marks on Martin's body, and no marks on Zimmerman. There are eye witnesses who unanimously back Zimmerman's version of the turn of events.

According to the Coroner, Martin's knuckles were cut and bloody, and there were 14 seperate occasions when Zimmerman could be heard calling for help on the real 911 tape. The picture Hoot posted of Zimmerman's bloody head looks very convincing to me and is proof of why the Sheriff initially didn't prosecute according to the "Stand your ground law". Then there are pictures that showed a very young Trayvon to further mislead the public. Trayvon was 6'2" tall and a football player. He was on suspension for the third time from Dr. Michael M. Krop High School in Miami, in this instance, for 10 days after drug residue was found in his backpack, this, according to records obtained by the Miami Herald. And you want to say other people on here are biased?

Obviously, the Sheriff in Sanford needs to contact you to get the facts of the case. All anybody on here is saying is we have to let the legal process unfold down in Florida. The media manipulated the evidence and public opinion with their lies and innuendo. It's wrong, and demonstrates the general lack of integrity among their ranks. I wouldn't believe most of them on a stack of bibles. They lie about many of the things they report because of their various biases and it's a shame. The liberal media lead many gullible folks around by the nose.

[Hoot Gibson]

There is zero proof that the kid was attacking him. None. Not one mark on either body. If you shot someone without provocation, I would assume you would make up some self defense story also.

The only proof we have in this case is that the kid was walking in a gated community, that his dad's finance' lived in, and he was staying the night in, carrying a bag of skittles and a bottle of tea. He was then confronted by Zimmerman, then shot dead. The kid's girlfriend said he was worried that Zimmerman was following him. That's all that is known. From that, it looks like Zimmerman was paranoid, and killed him, playing cop. The kid's past, and boyish scrapes in school have no bearing in the case, unless he attacked Zimmerman, and by all the proof we have from both bodies, being inconsistent with the testimony of the only survivor, the attack didn't happen. Another fact that could come into play is that Zimmerman outweighed the kid by 100 pounds, and from the police video, it's not a "fat" 100 pounds.

Zimmerman says they he and he and the kid were the only ones present. An audio expert has come to the conclusion that the screams on the 911 call(from the woman that called) were not from Zimmerman. That only leaves Trayvon to do the screaming, and calling for help.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/apr...ll-screams

Yes, they are specialist. They said that the screams weren't Zimmerman. He is offering a professional opinion.

Zimmerman said it was his voice on the call that he made. The other 911 call was the one the woman made. Comparing the two recordings, where one is Zimmerman, and the other that has the screams. Zimmerman claims that the screams are him being attacked when the recording was played for him, but the expert says it is not him.

Does that make the real facts of the case any less real? Does that make Martin's screams any less real? Does that make the gun shot any less real?

Care to show where an eyewitness saw it? That is the way Zimmerman told it. As you well know, there were no fight marks on either person.

That's the ones I'm listening to, not the news media on TV. Just what the witnesses and the expert are saying, and the 911 calls. I'm glad you think you know so much about what I watch, but if you really did, you would know I don't watch news TV.

Why don't you folks just admit the truth about your thoughts. Martin was black, the media pandered to the "Sharptons", and more republicans are taking sides with Zimmerman because of it. Hell, at least be honest.

This case is all about race with you, RV. The facts were irrelevant to you from your very first post in this thread. I think you just enjoy calling people racists and homophobes. Your rush to judgment in this case has left you with no credibility on this subject.

[Granny Bear]

Apparently you have debated with RV long enough to know the history and tactics he relies on in his attempts to persuade. I agree!!
RV is great at assuming facts not in evidence, combining objective with subjective material, drawing conclusions based on air then piously brow beating folks that he considers ignorant Republicans who do not agree. He does not appear to be interested in sharing ideas, learning facts about situations or changing his mind.....even when proven wrong. He has proven himself to be great at "crawdadding"....indeed. (wish I could learn how to multiple quote!!):biggrin:

I don't think of RV as a liberal. I like to debate liberals. I like to debate conservatives, too. Many times I find out facts of which I was not aware, or at least hear about a different view points slanted perspectives, etc. I believe those are the kinds of things that help one to grow as a person.

Bottom line is RV is not a liberal, as he likes to define himself....RV is nothing more than a pious bully. No exchange of ideas welcomed there...agree with RV or forever be damned.

[Hoot Gibson]

Apparently you have debated with RV long enough to know the history and tactics he relies on in his attempts to persuade. I agree!!
RV is great at assuming facts not in evidence, combining objective with subjective material, drawing conclusions based on air then piously brow beating folks that he considers ignorant Republicans who do not agree. He does not appear to be interested in sharing ideas, learning facts about situations or changing his mind.....even when proven wrong. He has proven himself to be great at "crawdadding"....indeed. (wish I could learn how to multiple quote!!):biggrin:

I don't think of RV as a liberal. I like to debate liberals. I like to debate conservatives, too. Many times I find out facts of which I was not aware, or at least hear about a different view points slanted perspectives, etc. I believe those are the kinds of things that help one to grow as a person.

Bottom line is RV is not a liberal, as he likes to define himself....RV is nothing more than a pious bully. No exchange of ideas welcomed there...agree with RV or forever be damned.

Well said, Granny Bear. The only point that I take issue is your statement that RV is not a liberal. RV is a typical liberal. Like you, I also have liberal friends who are open minded and willing to listen to and make arguments based on facts, but they are the exception to the rule.

This is not, or at least it should not be a political issue. Famed defense attorney, Alan Dershowitz, who is as liberal as anybody in this country, is no friend of mine, but he is a person that I admire and respect for his intellectual honesty and integrity. Dershowitz believes that no matter who is on trial, they deserve a vigorous defense by a competent lawyer. I think the man would have defended Hitler against charges that he murdered 6 million fellow Jews. It is not something that I could have done, but it is one of Dershowitz's core beliefs. Dershowitz would have made an excellent Supreme Court justice, IMO, although I would not have agreed with many of his position. At least he would not have been an intellectually and morally flyweight like the Clinton and Obama appointees have been.

Dershowitz does not let his left wing political beliefs cloud his judgment. If I were to make a short list of famous people who I actually like to meet in person - and it would be a very short list, Dershowitz would be the only liberal on that list. (Christopher Hitchens would have been on it too, but he succumbed to cancer before I had the pleasure of discussing political issues with him.)

I enjoy debating liberals who are knowledgable on the issues and capable of defending their opinions with facts. They are a rare breed. We are usually stuck arguing with ignorant liberals with short fuses, who resort to name calling when proven wrong.

[INDENT]

[COLOR="Blue"]
Dershowitz: Drop Zimmerman Murder Charge
New evidence suggests Trayvon Martin's killer acted in self-defense

A medical report by George Zimmerman’s doctor has disclosed that Zimmerman had a fractured nose, two black eyes, two lacerations on the back of his head and a back injury on the day after the fatal shooting. If this evidence turns out to be valid, the prosecutor will have no choice but to drop the second-degree murder charge against Zimmerman — if she wants to act ethically, lawfully and professionally.

There is, of course, no assurance that the special prosecutor handling the case, State Attorney Angela Corey, will do the right thing. Because until now, her actions have been anything but ethical, lawful and professional.

She was aware when she submitted an affidavit that it did not contain the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. She deliberately withheld evidence that supported Zimmerman’s claim of self-defense. The New York Times has reported that the police had “a full face picture” of Zimmerman, before paramedics treated him, that showed “a bloodied nose.” The prosecutor also had photographic evidence of bruises to the back of his head.

[Image: http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_f.../image.jpg]

But none of this was included in any affidavit.

Now there is much more extensive medical evidence that would tend to support Zimmerman’s version of events. This version, if true, would establish self-defense even if Zimmerman had improperly followed, harassed and provoked Martin.

A defendant, under Florida law, loses his “stand your ground” defense if he provoked the encounter — but he retains traditional self-defense if he reasonably believed his life was in danger and his only recourse was to employ deadly force.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/drop-...z1vKoqWhyX


Read more on Newsmax.com: Dershowitz: Drop Zimmerman Murder Charge
Important: Do You Support Pres. Obama's Re-Election? Vote Here Now!
[/COLOR]

[/INDENT]

[TheRealVille]

Apparently you have debated with RV long enough to know the history and tactics he relies on in his attempts to persuade. I agree!!
RV is great at assuming facts not in evidence, combining objective with subjective material, drawing conclusions based on air then piously brow beating folks that he considers ignorant Republicans who do not agree. He does not appear to be interested in sharing ideas, learning facts about situations or changing his mind.....even when proven wrong. He has proven himself to be great at "crawdadding"....indeed. (wish I could learn how to multiple quote!!):biggrin:

I don't think of RV as a liberal. I like to debate liberals. I like to debate conservatives, too. Many times I find out facts of which I was not aware, or at least hear about a different view points slanted perspectives, etc. I believe those are the kinds of things that help one to grow as a person.

Bottom line is RV is not a liberal, as he likes to define himself....RV is nothing more than a pious bully. No exchange of ideas welcomed there...agree with RV or forever be damned.

I don't bully anybody for how they think or vote. You might want to rethink your position on me, and watch how others act when I don't agree with them. I could care less how others think about this case. I just state my belief, and it's dog pile on RV day when I don't bow to them.

[nky]

Maybe he felt threatened. According to Florida law if that was the issue, he was in his right to attack. He was walking home from the store. He was followed by some dude that may have look suspicious to him. They got into an altercation and he was shot and killed. Most people in the US who shoot unarmed individuals are usually criminally charged, which he eventually was. Why don't we let the court system decide his fate. IMO, this opens up a can of worms. If a skinny scrawny person feels threatened or gets into an altercation with a big, strong bad ass, no matter who is at fault, he has the right to KILL him if he feels like he is in danger of getting hurt or something worse.

well I guess we could learn a lesson from this.... don't bring your fist to a gun fight

[RunItUpTheGut]

Heard today that there were high levels of Marijuana in his system.
Still think Marijuana doesnt kill RV? nicker:

[OrangenowBlue]

I do not think a jury will convict him because there is enough reasonable doubt. You will have old people who think that Marijuana induces volatile behavior, which is a lie. There is so much gray area about who instigated the confrontation and that the only witness is the alleged "perp". The sad thing is that most of the posters on here want him to get off just to get back at what they perceive as the "liberal media" and activists in black neighborhoods. If this would have happened to the son of any poster on here, they would have been raising hell, and yelling for justice. Like his parents have.

[Granny Bear]

I do not think a jury will convict him because there is enough reasonable doubt. You will have old people who think that Marijuana induces volatile behavior, which is a lie. There is so much gray area about who instigated the confrontation and that the only witness is the alleged "perp". The sad thing is that most of the posters on here want him to get off just to get back at what they perceive as the "liberal media" and activists in black neighborhoods. If this would have happened to the son of any poster on here, they would have been raising hell, and yelling for justice. Like his parents have.

If there is reasonable doubt, a jury shouldn't convict him.
I don't want him convicted unless he's guilty and the media and activists in ANY neighborhood shouldn't have an influence.
If this would have happened to my son, I absolutely would be raising hell and yelling for justice. Justice should be served in this case, too.

I doubt nor would I want Al Sharpton's support or Obama feeling empathy because it could have been his son.

[TheRealThing]

I do not think a jury will convict him because there is enough reasonable doubt. You will have old people who think that Marijuana induces volatile behavior, which is a lie. There is so much gray area about who instigated the confrontation and that the only witness is the alleged "perp". The sad thing is that most of the posters on here want him to get off just to get back at what they perceive as the "liberal media" and activists in black neighborhoods. If this would have happened to the son of any poster on here, they would have been raising hell, and yelling for justice. Like his parents have.

Perceive as the "liberal media"? LOL, you gotta be kidding. Edited 911 tapes released to the public by the media to create bias toward Zimmerman must be okay from your perspective. Reporting both men were 100% devoid of any mark on their person whatever, is okay too. Marijuana may not induce volatile behavior, but it doesn't necessarily inhibit it either. When I was in the service, dope was everywhere, (including the flight line) and I can speak to the matter with good authority, it doesn't take much to get a fight started. And, there are at least two eye witnesses. Justice works for both sides until race is introduced into the picture and then facts are manipulated for the desired outcome. The truth would be a nice touch if you ask me, and maybe get the media to stop with the judge, jury and executioner act.

[Granny Bear]

Whether or not marijuana induces violent behavior, I believe it is still illegal.......

[TheRealThing]

Whether or not marijuana induces violent behavior, I believe it is still illegal.......

It's a thin veil at best. For instance, bikers are known (among other things) for fighting, smoking dope and drinking. Believe me when I tell you, dope doesn't take much of the edge off.

[OrangenowBlue]

It's a thin veil at best. For instance, bikers are known (among other things) for fighting, smoking dope and drinking. Believe me when I tell you, dope doesn't take much of the edge off.

Is it the smoking of Marijuana or is it the smoking of crack cocaine and or Meth? Dope has a broad meaning. I have worked in the field of dealing with drug addicts and alcoholics for 22 years and I have never met someone who just smoked Marijuana and exhibited volatile or aggressive behavior. Now one of the side effects in this case would be "paranoia" and he could have gotten aggressive because he was paranoid that some strange fellow was tailing him.

[OrangenowBlue]

Whether or not marijuana induces violent behavior, I believe it is still illegal.......

But did it play a role in this case.

[OrangenowBlue]

Perceive as the "liberal media"? LOL, you gotta be kidding. Edited 911 tapes released to the public by the media to create bias toward Zimmerman must be okay from your perspective. Reporting both men were 100% devoid of any mark on their person whatever, is okay too. Marijuana may not induce volatile behavior, but it doesn't necessarily inhibit it either. When I was in the service, dope was everywhere, (including the flight line) and I can speak to the matter with good authority, it doesn't take much to get a fight started. And, there are at least two eye witnesses. Justice works for both sides until race is introduced into the picture and then facts are manipulated for the desired outcome. The truth would be a nice touch if you ask me, and maybe get the media to stop with the judge, jury and executioner act.

Eye witnesses to how it started or eye witnesses after the altercation was already taking place.

[TheRealThing]

Is it the smoking of Marijuana or is it the smoking of crack cocaine and or Meth? Dope has a broad meaning. I have worked in the field of dealing with drug addicts and alcoholics for 22 years and I have never met someone who just smoked Marijuana and exhibited volatile or aggressive behavior. Now one of the side effects in this case would be "paranoia" and he could have gotten aggressive because he was paranoid that some strange fellow was tailing him.

I'm talking strictly marijuana here.

[OrangenowBlue]

If there is reasonable doubt, a jury shouldn't convict him.
I don't want him convicted unless he's guilty and the media and activists in ANY neighborhood shouldn't have an influence.
If this would have happened to my son, I absolutely would be raising hell and yelling for justice. Justice should be served in this case, too.

I doubt nor would I want Al Sharpton's support or Obama feeling empathy because it could have been his son.

The problem you run into now, if he was convicted, many on the other side of the argument will state that he was wrongly convicted. So it is a neverending cycle going back and forth.

[TheRealThing]

Eye witnesses to how it started or eye witnesses after the altercation was already taking place.

According to what I have seen, there was loud talking between the two which attracted the attention of those who then witnessed the actual fight that ensued. Heck, the whole thing was audible on more than one 911 call. There are more eye witnesses to this thing than any other of the sensationalized crimes I can remember. There is one thing about this whole deal that really bothers me. The sheriffs of Florida are the ones responsible for enforcing the law down there, waaay more than they are in Kentucky. They have all the authority and expertise they need to do good police work. Nobody down in Florida slams the sheriff department of their jurisdiction, respect for sheriffs is the norm. They really have their act together. Those who assume this matter was rejected out of hand by some Barney Fife, are most likely very mistaken.

The police authority in that jurisdiction already investigated the matter and came to a professional assement of the crime/lack of crime. The media stirred up a hornet's nest with the help of Sharpton and Jackson but, I see this thing coming out the same way. Not to say it will, but that's the way it looks to me.

[TheRealVille]

I'm talking strictly marijuana here.

Don't ruin my buzz. Marijuana is a pacifier. I know this for a fact. If it was in his system, as far as tests go, it could have been up to 3 weeks since he smoked it. If it was more than a day(and I'm being very, very liberal here), I can guarantee he wasn't high. My guess is, that you don't know squat about pot.

[TheRealVille]

It's a thin veil at best. For instance, bikers are known (among other things) for fighting, smoking dope and drinking. Believe me when I tell you, dope doesn't take much of the edge off.

I call bullshit. What do outlaw bikers have to do with this case? Pot is a pacifer, and I know this for a fact.

[SKINNYPIG]

Don't ruin my buzz. Marijuana is a pacifier. I know this for a fact. If it was in his system, as far as tests go, it could have been up to 3 weeks since he smoked it. If it was more than a day(and I'm being very, very liberal here), I can guarantee he wasn't high. My guess is, that you don't know squat about pot.

I would venture to guess that TRT, myself and anybody else on BGR knows as much or more about pot than you know about this case.

[TheRealVille]

I would venture to guess that TRT, myself and anybody else on BGR knows as much or more about pot than you know about this case.

I will bet big bucks you don't know more about the effects of pot, though.

.

[SKINNYPIG]

I will bet big bucks you don't know more about the effects of pot, though.

I smoked a big joint (that's right, a big joint) or two in the late seventies man. And I still stand by my statement. We all know as much, if not more, about pot as you know about this case. And I know very little about pot.