[Commanche]

Rew2 please reply to the facts in post #17. Now is there biased decisions made?

[Commanche]

Sorry double post

[REW2]

Rew2 please reply to the facts in post #17. Now is there biased decisions made?

From the Kentucky High School Baseball Coaches Association website.....

All State Team

*1st and 2nd Team All State will have 18 players selected based on voting of the All State committee. The remaining players nominated will be honorable mention. Schools have to be members of the KHSBCA in order for players to be considered.

*Regional Reps should submit the following information after their regional meeting and before June 1 with stats and information for players.

1. The regions top three players (any class) for all state consideration.
2. The regions top player for "Player of the Year"
3. A regional "Coach of the Year"
4. A regional "Assistant Coach of the Year"

*Any Division I baseball signee (player receives baseball scholarship money) or if a player is drafted, they are automatically included in the three names to be submitted. In the event there are more than three D1 players, all names will be submitted. [B] If a region has at least three D1 signees and would like to select another player or an underclassmen to represent their region, one additional player may or may not be selected.[/B]

*The All State Chairman may choose additional players statewide to vote on that were not included from the regional reps if they feel someone else should be nominated that was left out.

-VOTING PROCEDURES-

*The All State committee will vote on the selections. Each coach on the committee will choose 18 players for the first team and 18 for the second team. The players selected on the first team will receive 20 points and the second team will receive 10 points. All points will be totaled and the top 18 will be on the first team with the next 18 on the second team. All other remaining players will be honorable mention.

*Mr. Baseball : This award will be selected from the all state committee as they will take the top five vote recipients and vote for Mr. Baseball. It will be announced after the state tournament and will be awarded at the East/West All Star Game.

Commanche
I think the bold and then underlinned part of the post may help explain why the 11th has more than 3 players. I take it that since the 11th had more than 3 who recieved D1 money or where drafted all where automaticlly nominated, then the Allstate committe voted and top 18(recieved the most votes) made the 1st team, then the next 18 made the 2nd team.
Combs-BS-UK
Bollmer-BS-UK
Buehler-HC-Vandy- drafted
Hurt-LC-Costal-drafted
Jackson-LC-WKU
Miller-Lafayette-WKU
Gross-MC-Morehead
Haynes-LC-IU
Arnold-Franklin Co-UK-drafted
These kids apparently were in the top 36, so they made the 1st and 2nd teams.
If a region didnt have more than 3 d1 scholarships or kids drafted, they only had 3 nominated. And even if they had more than 3, that still didn't mean that recieved enough votes to put them in the top 36.
The Chairman can nominate aditionally players, but they still have to be voted upon by the allstate committe.
I hope this is what you wanted me me to comment on.

[FBfan4life]

Forget it Segar, these guys know it all,prolly Obama backers! Probably didnt see the field either in there days. Bryan Station has been the doormat of Lex for a few years and a little success has gone to there head. Oh yeah Woodford clubbed them in the region finals!

Please don't include me in your qoute " These guys " and someone that has not seen the field. My national title ring speaks loudly enough. No im not for BS or 11th or whatever region you all are talking about, in fact I'm not even from this state. I live and work here now though. What point is, I was not an all Big 12, all american, all academics. Heck it was not even called BCS championship back then, but I played all out with my teammates and it payed off with a shinny ring. My point is that who really cares about indiviual accomplishment? People remember you as only a part of something special and that is a TEAM championship. And no I'm not an Obama backer either. Bring back Ross Perot...

[Bob Seger]

Please don't include me in your qoute " These guys " and someone that has not seen the field. My national title ring speaks loudly enough. No im not for BS or 11th or whatever region you all are talking about, in fact I'm not even from this state. I live and work here now though. What point is, I was not an all Big 12, all american, all academics. Heck it was not even called BCS championship back then, but I played all out with my teammates and it payed off with a shinny ring. My point is that who really cares about indiviual accomplishment? People remember you as only a part of something special and that is a TEAM championship. And no I'm not an Obama backer either. Bring back Ross Perot...

When it all comes down to what's really important, that is the most important and wisest comment that's been made in this whole thread. The others have only been made about kids playing a game.:Thumbs:

[REW2]

Commanche and Bob
You have an intelligent young man in Pupaw, and it sounds like he was a good player. He is the reason i changed my responce to the 2 of you.
1st, I have been through the recruiting process myself with my son, so I know what its all about, I'm not a rookie.
2nd, Like I've said before I'm not a BS supporter,(it takes 1 minute to lookup the BS schedule on KHSAA wesite, and see game results) but I do support another team from the 11th region. Also I am really involved in "summer" or "travel" baseball organization in the area. So if you want to get in a pissing contest with me, bring it on.
3rd, Commanche, Calling me a Obama supporter, and saying I probally never set foot on a field, tells me alot about you!!!

[Bob Seger]

Commanche and Bob
You have an intelligent young man in Pupaw, and it sounds like he was a good player. He is the reason i changed my responce to the 2 of you.
1st, I have been through the recruiting process myself with my son, so I know what its all about, I'm not a rookie.
2nd, Like I've said before I'm not a BS supporter/B],(it takes 1 minute to lookup the BS schedule on KHSAA wesite, and see game results) but I do support another team from the 11th region. Also I am really involved in "summer" or "travel" baseball organization in the area. [B]So if you want to get in a pissing contest with me, bring it on.3rd, Commanche, Calling me a Obama supporter, and saying I probally never set foot on a field, tells me alot about you!!!

It's like this REW2, all this stuff is meaningless to me to begin with and I could care less about any of it.....I dont get too worked up over these type teams/polls, etc. They are all just someones opinion on kids that more than likely a lot of the voters have never seen play to begin with. I tend to agree with Fbfan4life and his evaluation. It's all about team to begin with. One player, no matter how decorated they are, is going to take you to the promised land, and that's really what it's all about. It's plain to see however you may fit in the sore loser category, and it's all about self and his own little interest out there on the field anyways. Right off the bat you made the statement that "I hope you dont think those are the best two teams in the state". That was all anybody really needed to hear . The only reason I even made the first comment regarding anything in this thread was because of your extreme arrogance towards any body outside of your own little fantasy world, and what sounded to me to be a pretty insulting attitude concerning what your thoughts were of the kids in this area. I was taking up for them. Your line of thought is what gives you little elitests in your little world the bad rap. I will guarantee you one thing though, when it comes to summer ball and your great little accomplishments, (and please tell us all more, and hopefully in great detail....lol) you better have a dang good resume to top Commanche's to begin with. Have a good day REW, and may you bask in your own glory forever and ever and ever.:blabbermo

[Commanche]

Please don't include me in your qoute " These guys " and someone that has not seen the field. My national title ring speaks loudly enough. No im not for BS or 11th or whatever region you all are talking about, in fact I'm not even from this state. I live and work here now though. What point is, I was not an all Big 12, all american, all academics. Heck it was not even called BCS championship back then, but I played all out with my teammates and it payed off with a shinny ring. My point is that who really cares about indiviual accomplishment? People remember you as only a part of something special and that is a TEAM championship. And no I'm not an Obama backer either. Bring back Ross Perot...

First off FB, you call me out for what you thought was whining, so get over it!
I don't have a dog on the fight other than to state my opinion!
Glad you own a title, congrats! But not everyone does, and I don't care so much about them either, but of a kid deserves it then why discrimate due to where he is from? Kids from outside the big L's can play a little as well.
That recognition could mean college money for the parents if nothing else
I am glad you want a Ross as much as I do.

[Commanche]

Rew2 I have coached around 45 players over the last few years and over 20 were awarded baseball schollys and 4 at the D1 level, also 2 of them very well could have gotten drafted!

This is not about you and I, it about fairness And the imperfections of the process. You are right and we have preached the stronger schedule to our coaches. The kids don't have the say so on this matter!

The 15th in the last 4 years has a state runner up, and a final four! An all a runner up and a final four as well! Not bad for kids that can't play!

[TigerBlues]

This is a very interesting debate and a good one. I can see where both sides are right in their passion for what they believe and make solid points to back them up. This is great keep it going guys, but the one guy is right about the differences between the two regions. There is no comparasion. Just trying to be honest.

[REW2]

Rew2 I have coached around 45 players over the last few years and over 20 were awarded baseball schollys and 4 at the D1 level, also 2 of them very well could have gotten drafted!

This is not about you and I, it about fairness And the imperfections of the process. You are right and we have preached the stronger schedule to our coaches. The kids don't have the say so on this matter!

The 15th in the last 4 years has a state runner up, and a final four! An all a runner up and a final four as well! Not bad for kids that can't play!

What is so unfair? The 11th had 8 kids who where either drafted or recieved D1 money, the allstate committe voted them as the top 36 players in the state. Once again what is so unfair?? Who would you want added and why????????

Pupaw was good enough to be named allstate, and he is from the 15th right?
And Bob Seger had a allstate son? They where both good enough to be recognized?
I'm sorry the Lexington paper doesn't cover the mountains very well, but they cover the area that their subscribers want to read about, thats business. The Lexington kids don't get any pub from the Lou papers, that the way it is.

Thats nice for the 15th but the 11th has won state championships in 2012,2009,2007,2006,2005,2003 and 1999, sorry not good enough again. And I never said the kids from the 15th can't play.

Now lets talk summer ball.
Since 2010 we have had 17 kids drafted.
30 kids from the 2010 class signed to played college baseball.
23 from the 2011 class.
21 from the 2012 class thus far.
The team that I was involved with the most, were rated as high as 10th nationally in 2011, 12th in 2010, and I think it was 15th in 2009.
Its a pretty strong program as you can see.

[fanof3]

No big deal but you both appear to be homies. Did you read the procedure above. Wonder where the Chairperson was from? If I read this correctly, he is the only one who can add more than a 4 player from each region. I wonder how many games he actually saw outside of those regions? None I would bet.

Not taking anything away from this other than with out Hollon, then this blows the credibility of the whole process.

Yes I looked the 11th had 8 D1 signees and added 8 others. The 7th show 2 D1 signees and added 11 others. This is proof in what I say, no other region was given this consideration.

I could care less but these are akin to little league all star ballots, and if you are too uneducated or hard headed to believe this, then there isnt a thing I can do to help you. Keep dreaming baby!

Bet you are Obama fans as well! LMAOnicker:

That is wrong about the 7th Region.....I know there are at least 3 D1's

[OffTheHook]

Commanche
Are you trying to compare the 15th with the 11th, that was one game, (the 5th of the week for BS) And by the way BS only has 3 D1 kids, 2 of those kids were hurt for most of the year. But if you want to compare, lets.
How many teams rated in the top 25, 15th? 0
Top 25 teams for the 11th. 8
How many quality wins for the 15th? 1?
Lexington Catholic alone? St X, NCC, Mercer Co,Central Hardin,(those are the state tourney teams), Cinc Elder,Trinity,Eastern, IMG Academy, FL.
** I know you will say the top 25 doesn't count because it is biased to LEX and LOU, but if your teams don't play any quality competion, how can the coaches from outside your area rate them.***
State titles won by 15th? 0
State titles won by the 11th? 2, Overall state: Woodford Co. All A: Lexington Christian(LCA finished the regular season and disrict tourney in 5th place in the 43rd district, last place). Didn't some of the better teams from the 15th compete in that tourney?
How many players from the 15th are playeing college or pro ball next year?
It looks to me like they don't compare.
Now its your turn. But please stay away from your tactic of name calling, just the facts.

I think you need to do a little Homework before you go making statements you have NO CLUE about.

1948 (Prestonsburg) State Champs
1989 (Paintsville Runner-up)
1990 (Paintsville) State Champs
2007 (Paintsville L.I.T. Undefeated)
2008 (Paintsville All A Runner-up) (I bet LCA remembers us)
2008 (Lawrence Co. Runner-up)

Now if you would like to go and look at how many Final Four Appearances the 15th has since it has been played...PLEASE feel free:

http://www.khsaa.org/Publications/Record...istory/rb/

You just may be surprised....I'm not.

Also 2 of our 3 Seniors are playing College Ball next season.

[mr.charlie hustle]

I think you need to do a little Homework before you go making statements you have NO CLUE about.

1948 (Prestonsburg) State Champs
1989 (Paintsville Runner-up)
1990 (Paintsville) State Champs
2007 (Paintsville L.I.T. Undefeated)
2008 (Paintsville All A Runner-up) (I bet LCA remembers us)
2008 (Lawrence Co. Runner-up)

Now if you would like to go and look at how many Final Four Appearances the 15th has since it has been played...PLEASE feel free:

http://www.khsaa.org/Publications/Record...istory/rb/

You just may be surprised....I'm not.

Also 2 of our 3 Seniors are playing College Ball next season.

Hook you may want to take another look at your senior class. You actually in reality had 3/4 of your seniors to ink college play.:biggrin:I know the 15th had 6 signed and there were probably more I missed. This in a year when most 15th region teams had fewer senior representation. I think the biggest gig to the whole selection process was the absence of a kid by the name of Gavin Miller from Pikeville. Might just be the best #6 in the state. When that kid missed the system needs a look.No he did not sign a contract nor did he sign D-1 but he can flat play the game. Look for that name down the road.

[Panther Thunder]

I think you need to do a little Homework before you go making statements you have NO CLUE about.

1948 (Prestonsburg) State Champs
1989 (Paintsville Runner-up)
1990 (Paintsville) State Champs
2007 (Paintsville L.I.T. Undefeated)
2008 (Paintsville All A Runner-up) (I bet LCA remembers us)
2008 (Lawrence Co. Runner-up)

Now if you would like to go and look at how many Final Four Appearances the 15th has since it has been played...PLEASE feel free:

http://www.khsaa.org/Publications/Record...istory/rb/

You just may be surprised....I'm not.

Also 2 of our 3 Seniors are playing College Ball next season.

I think he was referencing only last season in terms of state titles.

Just to throw in a sentence or two on the whole 11th thing, On an almost yearly basis the 15th will have 1 or 2 teams that can compete at a high level with any team in the state. But just being realistic, the top 10 teams of the 11th would normally be among the top 3 or 4 in the 15th. The 15th has no depth on a state level. Their is solid individual talent at 5-6 schools, but sheer population dictates the % that will play D-1 or Pro Ball. The facilities and education of the game in Central KY definitely help as well. It is not to say that EKY does not have people capable of teaching the game, because they certainly do, but in Lexington or Louisville you can have professional instruction 3-4 days a week all year long. Meaning the instructor's JOB is to teach baseball to these young men. In EKY, the best instructors have jobs or careers in other fields that limits their time and ability to see a high volume of athletes on an annual basis.

There is a huge advantage to being able to specialize in baseball in an area where you are literally working the majority of the week and getting fine-tuning from individuals that make a living from teaching baseball fundamentals to athletes in those areas. When I last really played, the biggest jumps in my development were when I went to Lexington every Sunday in the winter into the spring for individual instruction. And that was just one day per week. Imagine having the ability to realistically be able to have those session 4-5 times a week, or 20ish in a month. It is just something that is not common here in EKY. It is getting better, but it still needs to become more common and facilities and more permanent instructors are important.

Being from a metro area will not automatically make you a better athlete. But there are definite tangible advantages these athletes have. Once again, it IS possible to replicate the same formula in EKY, but I know of very few that do it. And that is the point. Volume is clearly higher because of numbers and availability in a metro area. Of course EKY is not sending as many to play college or pro, because there are just not as many athletes. But on occasion you will see the high level college player come out of EKY.

I will agree slightly that there may be a scouting bias. And maybe it is unfair to those players that deserve more recognition. But to play past high school, it is rarely about your unmeasurable baseball savvy and more about the measurables. How hard you throw, how fast you run, bat speed, etc... And those are some things that I think go overlooked here in EKY. You must focus on both sides to get serious looks. EKY could benefit most if the programs that struggle could get the right baseball guys into their schools and become more competitive. Competition breeds success, and top to bottom, EKY is just not very competitive in most years, in terms of high levels of play.

Congratulations to all those selected, shout out to Gavin Miller of Pikeville as he adds to his Hall of Fame resume at PHS with an honorable mention! I do not think people really understand how much his solidness will be missed.

[OffTheHook]

I think he was referencing only last season in terms of state titles.

No he wasn't. Notice the very next line in his statement.


"State titles won by 15th? 0
State titles won by the 11th? 2"


And no one is argue with anything you said. We agree and know that. It's just the fact of complete disrespect on some peoples behalf.

You know what's funny. At the end of the day. Whether you are from Lou., Lex. or some dirt road hollar. To the rest of the nation....you are still from Kentucky, where they have to move the cows before they can play a game.

[Bob Seger]

No he wasn't. Notice the very next line in his statement.


State titles won by 15th? 0
State titles won by the 11th? 2"


And no one is argue with anything you said. We agree and know that. It's just the fact of complete disrespect on some peoples behalf.

You know what's funny. At the end of the day. Whether you are from Lou., Lex. or some dirt road hollar. To the rest of the nation....you are still from Kentucky, where they have to move the cows before they can play a game.

lol....Aint that the truth. Here's the funny part Hook, mine have played on teams that have beaten his almighty KBC teams.....lol

[REW2]

I think you need to do a little Homework before you go making statements you have NO CLUE about.

1948 (Prestonsburg) State Champs
1989 (Paintsville Runner-up)
1990 (Paintsville) State Champs
2007 (Paintsville L.I.T. Undefeated)
2008 (Paintsville All A Runner-up) (I bet LCA remembers us)
2008 (Lawrence Co. Runner-up)

Now if you would like to go and look at how many Final Four Appearances the 15th has since it has been played...PLEASE feel free:

http://www.khsaa.org/Publications/Record...istory/rb/

You just may be surprised....I'm not.

Also 2 of our 3 Seniors are playing College Ball next season.

Pather was right, I was referring to 2012.
2012 11th, 2 state championships.
2012 15th, 0 state championships.
My statemant is 100% correct.

In the last 20 years:
11th state championships, 6
15th state championships, 0
In the last 30 years:
11th state championships, 11
15th state championships, 1

I don't feel like going all the way back to 1948 and count the 11ths championships, but I'll bet they have more than 1 during that time frame. (1982-1948)

[Panther Thunder]

I think the biggest gig to the whole selection process was the absence of a kid by the name of Gavin Miller from Pikeville. Might just be the best #6 in the state. When that kid missed the system needs a look.No he did not sign a contract nor did he sign D-1 but he can flat play the game. Look for that name down the road.

Just noticed this part, and I agree. I think the lack of summer baseball and just getting out to as many camps and showcases as possible did not help. And until this season his arm was a little weaker than what most would like. But he has the frame, speed, and just game to play at a high level, IMO. His mechanics are not even close to orthodox, but if you look at him against good pitching, he does just as well as bad pitching. Maybe it could lead to potential bouts of inconsistency, but I really am not sure if that is the case at this point. I know in his career against the better pitching he faced, he had two rockets off Chandler Shepherd (Freshman and Junior years), homered off either Austin Lyons or Zack Jackson of Paintsville in the All "A" in 2010, Hit a ball hard off the lefty from Butler, McGrath (sp?) right at the right fielder, Was 9-12 or 13 in the 2010 state tournament with a home run and a triple, Solid pitcher from East Carter homered. So, just off the top of my head, he has been big in big situations. He has great instincts at Short and his range is incredible. His error total went down considerably through out his career. Has multiple offensive records at Pikeville.

Just the stats I have would be through his junior year, I will updated them when I get the finalized 2012 stats:


Totals AB 330 BB/HBP 40 R 104 H 140 1B 84 2B 30 3B 10 HR 16 RBI 124

Fresh-Jun Average: .424

I know I post a ton on Gavo, but it just excited me so much to watch him play and now there is nothing to talk about so it gives me something to do lol.

[OffTheHook]

OK maybe I was reading a little quick. I see it now. Still doesn't change the fact that we are ALL a bunch of Hicks...LOL.

[REW2]

OK maybe I was reading a little quick. I see it now. Still doesn't change the fact that we are ALL a bunch of Hicks...LOL.

I agree, I have kids in school out of state, they have been teased about being from Kentucky, a friend of my daughters told her she didn't think people from KY wore shoes.

[Pupaw]

I agree, I have kids in school out of state, they have been teased about being from Kentucky, a friend of my daughters told her she didn't think people from KY wore shoes.

I played in a tournament in Indiana when I was 14 and a kid from a team we were playing that day said the same thing to me. He was shocked that I had a pair of spikes. I told him times were great and that we just got running water and everything!LOL

[3ballstrokin]

Millers biggest problem the past 2 years was everyone blowing his head up at Pikeville. Such as Panther Thunder here. His first two years of high school everyone knew he was good but once he proved himself to be really good after his Soph. season, people said GAVIN, YOU ARE THE BEST TO EVER PUT CLEATS ON. If he were talked about just as much as any other player, I think he would be signing D1 ball.

I would almost think PT was Gavin himself or his dad.

[Marshmellow Man]

Congrats to David Hayes and Matt Pelfrey of Powell County!! About time the Pirates get noticed, they have been a regional threat for several years and if the program can stay the course should be making a few more trips back to Whitaker Bank Park.

[mr.charlie hustle]

Millers biggest problem the past 2 years was everyone blowing his head up at Pikeville. Such as Panther Thunder here. His first two years of high school everyone knew he was good but once he proved himself to be really good after his Soph. season, people said GAVIN, YOU ARE THE BEST TO EVER PUT CLEATS ON. If he were talked about just as much as any other player, I think he would be signing D1 ball.

I would almost think PT was Gavin himself or his dad.

:biggrin: Sorry pardner PT is not his dad nor is he the kid himself. The only relationship I have with the kid is that my son played against him for six years and was with him at the showcase he was signed from. My relationship is one of respect for a kid that can truly play the game. Gavin was a diamond in the ruff and my opinion that this will be clearly seen in the future. Your post clearly reflects that many kids get bypassed by the system. Sure there are good players in the central part of the state and greater numbers of them. There are however players in other areas that get little recognition.

[3ballstrokin]

Oh of course, the kid can play ball! He's humble as well. And your statement about being recognized from this area is also true. You can be talented and never even heard of from college up North and east. But I just think the reason he didnt have near as good a year these past 2 years like his soph. was because his head was blew up by ppl such as PT.

[mr.charlie hustle]

Oh of course, the kid can play ball! He's humble as well. And your statement about being recognized from this area is also true. You can be talented and never even heard of from college up North and east. But I just think the reason he didnt have near as good a year these past 2 years like his soph. was because his head was blew up by ppl such as PT.

Would you kindly explain what you mean by "his head was blew up"?

[Commanche]

Oh of course, the kid can play ball! He's humble as well. And your statement about being recognized from this area is also true. You can be talented and never even heard of from college up North and east. But I just think the reason he didnt have near as good a year these past 2 years like his soph. was because his head was blew up by ppl such as PT.

PT is not related to Gavin!

The Reason his numbers weren't as good is he did not play much his freshman year due to coach's decision, lol. In his Soph campaign he was hitting between the cleanup hitter and the previous years number 2 hitter. Both were seniors proven and he got benefit of that situation being an unproven product that year. His Junior year I feel he pressed a little but still was very good. His senior numbers were posted as a .430 or so average, so not too shabby, lol. He was also pitched around ths year and showed great maturity with the situation.

PT, analyzed Gavin pretty good IMO. Gavin can flat out play the game. The whole roster from the 2010 team could flat out play it.

[OffTheHook]

PT is not related to Gavin!

The Reason his numbers weren't as good is he did not play much his freshman year due to coach's decision, lol. In his Soph campaign he was hitting between the cleanup hitter and the previous years number 2 hitter. Both were seniors proven and he got benefit of that situation being an unproven product that year. His Junior year I feel he pressed a little but still was very good. His senior numbers were posted as a .430 or so average, so not too shabby, lol. He was also pitched around ths year and showed great maturity with the situation.

PT, analyzed Gavin pretty good IMO. Gavin can flat out play the game. The whole roster from the 2010 team could flat out play it.

This was a big factor this season.

[3ballstrokin]

Would you kindly explain what you mean by "his head was blew up"?

Full of hot air. People are always talking about how much better he is. Not saying he isn't. As if he is the only piston in the Pikeville engine.

And IMO, the 2011 team was better 1-9 than the 2010 team. I strongly believe that bunch could have won state last year. If it weren't for that crazy pitching decision in region.