[Hoot Gibson]

Crazy how some people guffaw and boast about losing freedom and liberty. Crazy!

Crazy and sad.

[TheRealThing]

Define irony---Chief Justice Roberts trying to figure out a way to worm out of his responsibility, rolls over on his own convictions to avoid the appearance of partisanism by the high court. Thereby, cementing perhaps the most historic decision ever by the SCOTUS in the anals of partisanism. :lame:

[Bob Seger]

Define irony---Chief Justice Roberts trying to figure out a way to worm out of his responsibility, rolls over on his own convictions to avoid the appearance of partisanism by the high court. Thereby, cementing perhaps the most historic decision ever by the SCOTUS in the anals of partisanism. :lame:

TRT, I hate to say it, but I am a firm believer that no human is not above being bought and paid for, regardless of whatever status they may attain. There is an endless array of how it can be obtained. Blackmail, promised positions to kin, retaliation to kin, financial, etc., etc., etc. The possibilities could just go on and on forever. Sometimes there is just no other reasonable explanation for unexplainable actions. In the case of the most recent appointees, payback is an obvious rationale. As for others, the imagination can only run wild.

[nky]

^it's a conspiracy man. He gave the Republicans a huge issue to capitalise on in the fall. The largest tax increase ever. Who is it going to hurt? The Middle Class

[RunItUpTheGut]

^ Once it is ruled constitutional by the high court, it will be next to impossible to overturn. Case in point, Roe vs. Wade. The next President will have almost zero say in the matter.

What constitution?
Obama burned it a long time ago...

[RunItUpTheGut]

leave

Id rather have kick ass vundy in here anyday than to see you lerking around the shadows like chester the molester.

[RunItUpTheGut]

You all do know if that you dont have insurance then they will take it out of your income tax, right?
Also, they will start collection efforts if you do not do so.
If you choose not to you have to pay a fee.

When the government starts teeling you how to spend your money and where to spend it, thats the farthest thing from freedom ive ever heard of.

[TheRealThing]

TRT, I hate to say it, but I am a firm believer that no human is not above being bought and paid for, regardless of whatever status they may attain. There is an endless array of how it can be obtained. Blackmail, promised positions to kin, retaliation to kin, financial, etc., etc., etc. The possibilities could just go on and on forever. Sometimes there is just no other reasonable explanation for unexplainable actions. In the case of the most recent appointees, payback is an obvious rationale. As for others, the imagination can only run wild.

I considered that possibility as I was trying to wrap my head around Roberts chinless betrayal of himself as a man and champion of the truth. He basically handed the football back to the QB. Right now those on Capital Hill are waiting to see how America reacts this fall. If we see the sweeping rejection of liberalism we saw in the elections of 2010. I believe politicians will finally be convinced as to the true beliefs of mainstream America.

Unfortunately, politicians are not a particularly grounded lot. They are barometers of public opinion rather than leaders of integrity and moral conviction. There are a few notable exceptions, such as Allen West, Eric Cantor and Paul Ryan. It's a shame because public opinion is often swayed by what they see on the news, and we all know the media are suffering from dellusions of grandeur and are on a mission to save mankind. Therefore, only those that test what they hear are not maunipulated into a political clique by what they hear.

The intended function of the Supreme Court as a co-equally powerful branch of government, depends on the personal integrity of the justices. If they are politically motivated they should be unfit to serve. If that were true in this case we wouldn't have had the highest judge among men show cowardice in the face of valor. Our politicians have perpetrated this miscarriage of justice on us all, by trying to manipulate decisions of the high court by seeding it with their own political philosophical soul mates. The law is not political. It is intended to remain pure and seperated from political considerations. Otherwise, the law will mutate into an extension of the demcratic or the republican political party. In this way, if we allow it, liberalism could control the direction of this nation irrespective of the law.

In the same way the race card causes men to shrink back with their tail between their legs anytime it is played, the absurd fancies of social justice will stalk the political landscape of this nation like the grim reaper. Man will at last have surrendered himself on the altar of Baal, worshipping the created (man) rather than the Creator. America will lose her resolve to remain the world leader she is called to be. Favoring a ludacris faith in the 'brotherhood of man' to rise above his bent for personal destruction by his own self generated renaissance, ala Émile Coué de la Châtaigneraie. A turn of the century French psychologist and pharmacist who introduced a popular method of psychotherapy and self-improvement based on optimistic autosuggestion. You know, the once popular saying and now go-to operative of the extreme leftist, "Every day, in every way, I'm getting better and better"

In the mind of the liberal zealot. It is encumbered on the federal govenment of the United States to deliver Americans from every possible inconvenience, life may lay at one's doorstep. If one chooses not to work, the government promises the option of "retirement at the moment of birth". As is seen regularly these days, some folks get 'cradle to grave' entitlements. And, even then, one must point out that taxpayers actually pay for their entrance into this world at the hospital of birth, and interment upon death. Thereby reducing the noble visions of self government by the founding fathers of our free republic, and our representative form of governance, to a kind of universal insurance agency or policy, which guarantees citizens equality of results, in lieu of equality of opportunity.



Plutarch warned, “The real destroyer of the liberties of the people is he who spreads among them bounties, donations, and benefits.”

[SKINNYPIG]

Roberts may have caved in fear his court being dubbed "activists". In doing so, he may have just become the most activist judge in history.

[TheRealThing]

^One cannot be a leader by compromising his beliefs to avoid criticism from one's subordinates and critics.

[Beetle01]

I'm glad this was upheld. I work in the healthcare industry and something needs to change.

While costs of healthcare have gone up and the quality of coverage from insurance companies have gone down, the insurance companies have managed to triple their profits in the last 10 years.

I consider health care a basic human right.

There are many things I like about this plan.

-no more pre-existing conditions in a few years
-insurance companies can't drop you if you get sick
-prevent price gouging by insurance companies
-opens doorway for more drugs to get access to American markets
-insurance companies won't have to cover that aspirin u want for that headache from drinking all night
-mandatory insurance to be provided for full time employees at business with a set number of employees.


To balance this out, it will be mandatory to have health insurance, whether provided by employer, govt, or if less than 8% of your income, bought privately.

This will help protect insurance companies from people who would just wait to get sick to buy insurance.

No one complains about the need to have auto insurance.

[zaga_fan]

I'm glad this was upheld. I work in the healthcare industry and something needs to change.

While costs of healthcare have gone up and the quality of coverage from insurance companies have gone down, the insurance companies have managed to triple their profits in the last 10 years.

I consider health care a basic human right.

There are many things I like about this plan.

-no more pre-existing conditions in a few years
-insurance companies can't drop you if you get sick
-prevent price gouging by insurance companies
-opens doorway for more drugs to get access to American markets
-insurance companies won't have to cover that aspirin u want for that headache from drinking all night
-mandatory insurance to be provided for full time employees at business with a set number of employees.


To balance this out, it will be mandatory to have health insurance, whether provided by employer, govt, or if less than 8% of your income, bought privately.

This will help protect insurance companies from people who would just wait to get sick to buy insurance.

No one complains about the need to have auto insurance.

Everyone isn't required to have auto-insurance...
only people that drive.

There are a lot of benefits to this...
but the fact that everyone has to have it is ridiculous.

Having to buy insurance to drive is one thing.
Having to buy insurance because you are alive is completely different.

[MustangSally]

I'm glad this was upheld. I work in the healthcare industry and something needs to change.

While costs of healthcare have gone up and the quality of coverage from insurance companies have gone down, the insurance companies have managed to triple their profits in the last 10 years.

I consider health care a basic human right.

There are many things I like about this plan.

-no more pre-existing conditions in a few years
-insurance companies can't drop you if you get sick
-prevent price gouging by insurance companies
-opens doorway for more drugs to get access to American markets
-insurance companies won't have to cover that aspirin u want for that headache from drinking all night
-mandatory insurance to be provided for full time employees at business with a set number of employees.


To balance this out, it will be mandatory to have health insurance, whether provided by employer, govt, or if less than 8% of your income, bought privately.

This will help protect insurance companies from people who would just wait to get sick to buy insurance.

No one complains about the need to have auto insurance.

How do you feel about your job being phased out?

[TheRealThing]

Everyone isn't required to have auto-insurance...
only people that drive.

There are a lot of benefits to this...
but the fact that everyone has to have it is ridiculous.

Having to buy insurance to drive is one thing.
Having to buy insurance because you are alive is completely different.

It gets worse. The same people who didn't buy insurance will still not be buying insurance. The only difference will be that they will now have the benefit of state and or federally funded health services which, when compared with folks that are deemed 'rich' enough to pay for their own health insurance and services, will be more than a match. One must keep the tenets of social justice in mind when trying to get to the real truth in these matters. All ObamaCare accomplished is to get creative financing for the poor to have health services which by definition will rival the so-called cadillac policies such as BlueCross/BlueShield. A sort of homogenizing of medial care from top to bottom. Unless one is truly rich and can afford the best health care, from here on out you can kiss off such notions as having your own doctor. It will be very similar to going to the Center for Pro Bono, to get legal help. Maybe you'll get good advice and maybe not. One way or another, they will no longer be working for you. It will be more like dealing with some government worker and trying to get a social security number or paying your taxes.

So, the real truth here as it seems to me is that everybody, whether you actually pay an insurance premium or not, will go to cattlecall when you get sick. Not much different than the ER is now, only from now on, not only will your health care providers be medical folks, their boss will be Uncle Sam, can you spell s-l-o-w? The divide this creates between the middle class and the rich, which Obama professes to want to bring down, will be vast. Top flight health care for the rich, cattlecall for anyone depending on, or having to go through the health insurance system. It will be a nightmare on EVERY street, not just Elm.

Maybe there are some things that need to be addressed in the health industry. At least chaos is not one our problems, yet. The only way to stave off the breakdown of the world's premier medical system is to vote out Obama.

[Bob Seger]

I'm glad this was upheld. I work in the healthcare industry and something needs to change.

While costs of healthcare have gone up and the quality of coverage from insurance companies have gone down, the insurance companies have managed to triple their profits in the last 10 years.

I consider health care a basic human right.

There are many things I like about this plan.

-no more pre-existing conditions in a few years
-insurance companies can't drop you if you get sick
-prevent price gouging by insurance companies
-opens doorway for more drugs to get access to American markets
-insurance companies won't have to cover that aspirin u want for that headache from drinking all night
-mandatory insurance to be provided for full time employees at business with a set number of employees.


To balance this out, it will be mandatory to have health insurance, whether provided by employer, govt, or if less than 8% of your income, bought privately.

This will help protect insurance companies from people who would just wait to get sick to buy insurance.

No one complains about the need to have auto insurance.

:zzz:Not even in the same thought realm Beetle. That is a very very poor comparison. I think all of us had no doubt whatsoever that you would be the square peg in the world of round holes on the subject. You always are....lol.... Auto insurance protects and compensates others for our own neglect. You are only required by law to carry liability coverage. In case you dont understand the process, that is solely for the benefit of the other guy.:eyeroll:

[zaga_fan]

Most of the posts in this forum get a big "tl;dr" from me and my short attention span lol

[TheRealThing]

Most of the posts in this forum get a big "tl;dr" from me and my short attention span lol

Okay, but in all seriousness, you won't be laughing much when you have to wait for hours to see a doctor you don't even know, to get mediocre health care. Maybe for a loved one you care about greatly.

[RunItUpTheGut]

To be honest, i think free healthcare or atleast one thats favorable to the people sounds like a great idea. Id love to see every child be able to go to the doctor whenever he or she wanted to, but cmon, there is a lot of underlying issues to this that your not seeing.

I think this could be a good start, but it needs some major tweaking done to it.
I dont want my tax money going to pay for health insurance to those who are simply to sorry to work.

[zaga_fan]

Okay, but in all seriousness, you won't be laughing much when you have to wait for hours to see a doctor you don't even know, to get mediocre health care. Maybe for a loved one you care about greatly.

u mad bro?

I have just as much at stake as you - I just choose not to worry about things as much

And who of you by being worried can add a single hour to his life?
Matthew 6:27

I'm sorry it irks you that I don't take the time to read your posts...
but whether or not we have universal health care, $10.00/gallon gas, or whatever may happen - Jesus is still coming back

I'm at peace no matter what the supreme court rules

[TheRealVille]

u mad bro?

I have just as much at stake as you - I just choose not to worry about things as much

And who of you by being worried can add a single hour to his life?
Matthew 6:27

I'm sorry it irks you that I don't take the time to read your posts...
but whether or not we have universal health care, $10.00/gallon gas, or whatever may happen - Jesus is still coming back

I'm at peace no matter what the supreme court rules

I'm not religious, but your post makes a great point, at least it should to the christians on the board. They are depending/worrying about the US government, and not their lord. He said that the powers to be, were appointed by him. He also said he would protect them, and provide for them, but it seems christian faith is very lacking on this board.

[SKINNYPIG]

Ignorance is bliss.

[zaga_fan]

Ignorance is bliss.

Please elaborate, Mr. Swine

[TheRealVille]

Ignorance is bliss.

So Jesus is against healthcare reform?

[TheRealVille]

Ignorance is bliss.

Did I post anything that Jesus/God didn't say? Did he not say, don't worry, "I take care of the sparrow, how much more will I take care of you"? Paraphrased, of course.

[zaga_fan]

It's sad when I jump in here for a minute and get blasted by the conservatives and I have TRV taking up for me. LoL

[TheRealVille]

Roberts may have caved in fear his court being dubbed "activists". In doing so, he may have just become the most activist judge in history.

It can't be that they just came to the conclusion that was right, as they saw it? Does it have to be that he caved?

[TheRealThing]

u mad bro?

I have just as much at stake as you - I just choose not to worry about things as much

And who of you by being worried can add a single hour to his life?
Matthew 6:27

I'm sorry it irks you that I don't take the time to read your posts...
but whether or not we have universal health care, $10.00/gallon gas, or whatever may happen - Jesus is still coming back

I'm at peace no matter what the supreme court rules

Sorry for taking so long to get back to you. I'm not even close to being mad. That's the thing about the written word, how it sounds in your mind as you write, potentially becomes the exact opposite of what you intended when the text is read by others, I appologize for the confusion. :biggrin: I agree with your conclusions, and I agree with RealVille's take on the sovereignty of God.

I do believe it's incumbent on the church to call out sin. So, even though the health care issue may be just another argument to some, it smacks of socialism to me. As to some of the other issues we have debated on here, such as gay rights and abortion rights, God expects his church to call it out for what it is, and not white wash or compromise the truth. When one puts himself in that position there are going to be people who feel ill will for him.

As far as faith in the Lord to provide for us is concerned, like you, I'm at peace. That's not the issue. Our ship of state has sprung a few leaks of late, some larger than others, but when taken all together we are barely maintaining nuetral buoyancy. See, the way I see it, safeguarding our national freedom is a 24/7---365 undertaking. I believe the redefinition of what American law means, along with the sweeping "fundamental transformation" promised by the Obama administration will likely eventually lead to the 'sinking' of our already laboring ship of state. I have asked the question on a number of occasions in the past and I'll ask again, why change a system which, by any definition is the envy of the world?

At any rate, we are still called upon to be good strewards, of what the Lord has blessed us with. Therefore, debate is necessary to expose the dangers afoot. And patriotism and sacrifice are necessary to maintain our freedom. What I believe is emanating from the dems is something else. The petty concerns of the special interest groups are usurping the essence of America's strength, the "common good." Their champions are the dems who have sworn to uphold the constitution and to protect the people of this land from all threats foreign and domestic. They are supposed to represent all Americans, not just ethnics or their pet social groups.

[TheRealVille]

Sorry for taking so long to get back to you. I'm not even close to being mad. That's the thing about the written word, how it sounds in your mind as you write, potentially becomes the exact opposite of what you intended when the text is read by others, I appologize for the confusion. :biggrin: I agree with your conclusions, and I agree with RealVille's take on the sovereignty of God.

I do believe it's incumbent on the church to call out sin. So, even though the health care issue may be just another argument to some, it smacks of socialism to me. As to some of the other issues we have debated on here, such as gay rights and abortion rights, God expects his church to call it out for what it is, and not white wash or compromise the truth. When one puts himself in that position there are going to be people who feel ill will for him.

As far as faith in the Lord to provide for us is concerned, like you, I'm at peace. That's not the issue. Our ship of state has sprung a few leaks of late, some larger than others, but when taken all together we are barely maintaining nuetral buoyancy. See, the way I see it, safeguarding our national freedom is a 24/7---365 undertaking. I believe the redefinition of what American law means, along with the sweeping "fundamental transformation" promised by the Obama administration will likely eventually lead to the 'sinking' of our already laboring ship of state. I have asked the question on a number of occasions in the past and I'll ask again, why change a system which, by any definition is the envy of the world?

At any rate, we are still called upon to be good strewards, of what the Lord has blessed us with. Therefore, debate is necessary to expose the dangers afoot. And patriotism and sacrifice are necessary to maintain our freedom. What I believe is emanating from the dems is something else. The petty concerns of the special interest groups are usurping the essence of America's strength, the "common good." Their champions are the dems who have sworn to uphold the constitution and to protect the people of this land from all threats foreign and domestic. They are supposed to represent all Americans, not just ethnics or their pet social groups.

Affordable Care act and socialism, which this bill really isn't but it sounds good to conservatives, are sin?


Republicans don't have "special interest groups" that they cater to?

[SKINNYPIG]

Nobody really knows how this Affordable Care Act is going to pan out. Some praise it as a stepping stone to something that will work. Some will even contend that our health care worries are over. Some say that it will certainly raise costs and deplete care.

One thing is certain...Americans lost a freedom of choice.

I would never claim to know the answer to our health care woes in this country. I do tend to believe that seeking and getting rid of fraud and abuse within the current system would have been a good first step. I also tend to believe seriously addressing TORT reform would help to decrease costs. I believe expanding free markets for insurance companies would help. I believe those in large groups (such as state and federal employees) could save money by modifying plans offered to them in ways it would save costs...There is no need for many folks that have good jobs to be insured for EVERY little ailment. I believe expanding nurse or practitioner clinics would help in saving costs...Our insurance companies don't need to pay for a doctors visit for a simple cold or minor illness. Let nurses and practitioners dispense, not prescribe minor medications. We should encourage personal responsibility when dealing with minor illnesses. I'm sure there are many more things that can be done.

We should never settle for a mammoth bill such as this. We should ALWAYS hold tight to our freedom of choice and liberty. Like it or not, this decision has stripped a freedom of choice from Americans. It chiseled a small chip of freedom away and opened the door for more. We cannot allow this small chip to grow into large chunks or we are doomed as a country.

[TheRealVille]

WASHINGTON, July 1, 2012 — Chief Justice John Roberts’s decision on behalf of the Supreme Court was gutsy. No doubt about it. He literally saved the august body from careening forever more into Right Wing Land. It was hell-bent on a self-destructive course that was already shattering its reputation.

Conservatives have been gloating that they have a lock on the Supreme Court with Justice Kennedy sometimes going stray, but for the most part doing what they considered the Right Thing. In fact, this court was not the Roberts Court, but the Antonin Scalia Court. The scowling, vituperative justice loved showering hot embers of sarcasm on the lawyers who appeared before the Court. Justice Scalia relished being the wrath of the Right. He and colleagues Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito had basically hijacked the Court.

That is until the fateful Thursday in late June when Roberts boldly reclaimed the Court as his and began the job of securing his legacy.

http://communities.washingtontimes.com/n...g-Roberts/