[Observing]

This has come under discussion in oter threads, but the issue of
realigment for basketball is about to get real sticky. As of now
there are 273 schools listed in the LIT ratings. competing
for the KHSAA boys basketball championship. That's an
average of 17 per region with 2 regions already having only
15 teams, the 14th region has 2 schools that seem in danger of closing
or merging which woudl reduce it to 15 teams as well.

And with the state of the economy and state budget etc.,
and dim prospects for revenues everywhere, more consolidation
is likely in many places. The result is going to HAVE to
be more and more 3 team districts, if the current 16 region
system is going to survive. I'd guess there isn't much
sentiment for altering that. but with all the changes going on,
is it a possibility that we may see some radical change to the format?
10 years agao it would have been beyond belief that the title
game would be played on a Sunday.

[HDE]

Some consolidations are possible with a few of the indpendent districts, but there are very few consolidations left as far as county schools - most already just have one school. Some counties are still adding schools (Nelson, Shelby, Warren of late).

There is no reason to have any three-team districts. It's not fair to have five-team districts some places and three others.

As long as there are 256 schools, you can still have at least four teams in 64 districts. There are 17 schools extra at this point, so it can be done.

[OhHereWeGo]

Currently there are 54 independent school districts. Monticello is in danger of closing as of right now and has been taken under state assistance.

[HDE]

Monticello and Jackson are being discussed. Most of them have been around forever and nothing is said about them being in danger of closing.

[OhHereWeGo]

Delete.

[allenc4]

If it ever came down to it the only thing in my opinion that has to survive is the 16 regions. If that means decreasing each region to two large districts then so be it.

But as someone said there are other schools opening as well. And the population of this country and state is only going to increase so I don't foresee this becoming a problem honestly.

[HDE]

If the average falls below 16 per region there's no point in going to two districts.
You just have a regional tournament with 14 or 15 teams. Six or seven first-round games (maybe at the home schools) and then you are back to an eight-team field like now.

[Observing]

Some consolidations are possible with a few of the indpendent districts, but there are very few consolidations left as far as county schools - most already just have one school. Some counties are still adding schools (Nelson, Shelby, Warren of late).

There is no reason to have any three-team districts. It's not fair to have five-team districts some places and three others.

As long as there are 256 schools, you can still have at least four teams in 64 districts. There are 17 schools extra at this point, so it can be done.

From a pure numbers standpoint, there's no need to have 3 team districts.
But from a logistics/travel standpoint, there is reason, and that's why we've already got some 3 team districts. Certainly you can spread the teams out
to ensure that all districts are 4-team, but in some cases that going
to involve an arbitrary decision as to which team get shipped out and has
to have lots of long distance travel compared to those that stay put.

[Platinum & Gold]

When does the re-alignment come out, I had heard it was going to come out early this year for scheduling purposes for coaches.

Monticello is closed down, no if and or buts about it.

[HDE]

From a pure numbers standpoint, there's no need to have 3 team districts.
But from a logistics/travel standpoint, there is reason, and that's why we've already got some 3 team districts. Certainly you can spread the teams out
to ensure that all districts are 4-team, but in some cases that going
to involve an arbitrary decision as to which team get shipped out and has
to have lots of long distance travel compared to those that stay put.

This sounds like somebody trying to preserve a cushy three-team district.
The idea behind the last realignment was to eliminate three-team districts. Now that there are seven or eight fewer schools we are supposed to believe we HAVE to have three-team districts.
I don't believe it.
Everybody travels to play a 30-game schedule. A few extra miles for a district game is probably not going to change the amount of miles a team travels during the course of a season.

[Observing]

This sounds like somebody trying to preserve a cushy three-team district.
The idea behind the last realignment was to eliminate three-team districts. Now that there are seven or eight fewer schools we are supposed to believe we HAVE to have three-team districts.
I don't believe it.
Everybody travels to play a 30-game schedule. A few extra miles for a district game is probably not going to change the amount of miles a team travels during the course of a season.

Not so. I have no interest in preserving any 3 team districts,
and don't like the idea of them. I'm just yielding to REALITY.
Someone else mentioned population growing, well Ky's population
isn't growing at any great rate, and may well go flat. And economic
realities mkae new schools ever more unlikely, whereas consolidations
remain possible in places.

Another poster above mentioned preserving the 16 region format
by going to 2 large districts per region. I'd rather see that, than end
up with a bunch of 3 team districts. But mostly I'm just thinking
out loud about what MAY come. I know sports is supposed to
be our escape from the daily grind, but real life intrudes into
it noneteless.

[BlueSky]

Just forget the Districts in BB. Have a 16 team Regional Tournament, placed in by seeding. Must play at least 12 of your regional foes during the season, rotating so every school plays each other in a two year period. With the beautiful facilities we have now it should be easy and lots of fun. Win that tournment and you have done something to be remembered.

[cksportsfan]

The KHSAA Board of Control meets TODAY (Monday, January 28).
http://portal.ksba.org/public/Meeting.as...cyTypeID=1
http://portal.ksba.org/public/Meeting.as...cyTypeID=1


On the docket is realigning region 1 due to the Heath-Reidland-Lone Oak Merger:
http://portal.ksba.org/public/Meeting/At...tID=157158
http://portal.ksba.org/public/Meeting/At...tID=157159
http://portal.ksba.org/public/Meeting/At...tID=157160
http://portal.ksba.org/public/Meeting/At...tID=157161


Also, Covington Beechwood (currently 35th District) wants to move BACK to the 34th District and put Ludlow back in the 35th.
http://portal.ksba.org/public/Meeting/At...tID=157156
http://portal.ksba.org/public/Meeting/At...tID=157157


And YES, the Monticello closing situation IS being discussed today:
http://portal.ksba.org/public/Meeting/At...tID=157171

[hop24]

Beechwood is located in Ft. Mitchell for practical purposes. Can see why they would want to get out of the 35th. Always 3 good teams(Holmes, CovCath, and Holy Cross) fighting for 2 spots.

[rojas]

Some consolidations are possible with a few of the indpendent districts, but there are very few consolidations left as far as county schools - most already just have one school. Some counties are still adding schools (Nelson, Shelby, Warren of late).

There is no reason to have any three-team districts. It's not fair to have five-team districts some places and three others.

As long as there are 256 schools, you can still have at least four teams in 64 districts. There are 17 schools extra at this point, so it can be done.

With only 273 teams across the state, I think it is time to completely do away with district tournaments. The playoffs should start with a seeded regional tournament. HDE, there was a time when the 52nd district had 11 teams competing, all from Harlan County.

[HDE]

The KHSAA Board of Control meets TODAY (Monday, January 28).
http://portal.ksba.org/public/Meeting.as...cyTypeID=1
http://portal.ksba.org/public/Meeting.as...cyTypeID=1


On the docket is realigning region 1 due to the Heath-Reidland-Lone Oak Merger:
http://portal.ksba.org/public/Meeting/At...tID=157158
http://portal.ksba.org/public/Meeting/At...tID=157159
http://portal.ksba.org/public/Meeting/At...tID=157160
http://portal.ksba.org/public/Meeting/At...tID=157161


Also, Covington Beechwood (currently 35th District) wants to move BACK to the 34th District and put Ludlow back in the 35th.
http://portal.ksba.org/public/Meeting/At...tID=157156
http://portal.ksba.org/public/Meeting/At...tID=157157


And YES, the Monticello closing situation IS being discussed today:
http://portal.ksba.org/public/Meeting/At...tID=157171

That's no solution for the 1st Region.
The KHSAA has apparently shied away from its plan a few years back to eliminate three-team districts. That's very disappointing and unfair to schools in five-team districts.

[cksportsfan]

HDE,

How would you fix the 1st Region? There are ZERO good options without forcing a team to have a huge haul.

You can pull from the 2nd and 3rd Regions, but the 3rd doesn't have a bunch of extra teams. When Meade County was forced into the 3rd, Meade was beyond pissed. A lot more travel, no natural rivals and, oh yeah, Meade is the only Eastern time zone team in the 3rd. Not to mention, Meade is the ONLY "Louisville metro" county NOT in the 5-6-7-8 region.

There's been talks of shifting the entire 17th District (Central Hardin, Elizabethtown, Fort Knox, John Hardin, North Hardin) to the 3rd (with Owensboro a 90-minute drive AND a timezone away).

The powers that be in the Hardin County area are determined not to let that happens.

Numbers wise, yes, there should be no three-team district.

Logistically, you can't rationally simply shift someone.

Who would leave the 17th as all five schools (Central Hardin, Elizabethtown, Fort Knox, John Hardin and North Hardin) are located in Hardin County?

Where would you send Washington County since the other four schools in the 19th (Bardstown, Bethlehem, Nelson County and Thomas Nelson) are all in Nelson County?

You really want to break up the five Warren County schools (Bowling Green, Greenwood, South Warren, Warren Central, Warren East)? You rather have five in a district than four and force a team (South Warren, I guess) to do a hell of a lot more traveling. SW could argue that it is closer to ALL FOUR of the schools that it is currently with than ANY school it could be put with in a new district. Not even one.

And even though new schools have popped up (Thomas Nelson, South Warren, Cooper in NKY, Collins in the last 5 years), NONE are new territory. So while they add numbers to a region, they are NOT candidates to get shifted/moved from the schools they came from (Thomas Nelson will be with Nelson County, South Warren with Greenwood, Cooper with Ryle, Collins with Shelby).

Any new alignment that concerns itself with numbers first and geography second (SHOULD BE THE OTHER WAY AROUND) will be met with huge unrest. From the schools to fans to the media to ADs, coaches, superintendents and principals.

When the KHSAA has repeatedly said geography and time zones must be factored in, good luck with your "every district will have 4 or 5 teams, No one will have 3" scenario.

You'll have regions with three districts instead of four (5th Region in Soccer is already this way, as is 3rd Region in volleyball) before you have 64 4-team and 5-team districts that look like they were designed by someone who flunked fifth-grade geography.

[HDE]

We have North and South Laurel in different districts in the 13th Region. Pike County is divided into two districts in the 15th. I believe Pulaski and Southwestern are in different districts in the 12th. All the northern Kentucky counties are divided up into different regions.

If you didn't realign because it makes someone mad you'd never get anything changed.

[OldSchoolTiger]

We have North and South Laurel in different districts in the 13th Region. Pike County is divided into two districts in the 15th. I believe Pulaski and Southwestern are in different districts in the 12th. All the northern Kentucky counties are divided up into different regions.

If you didn't realign because it makes someone mad you'd never get anything changed.

you also have Pineville and Bell County in different districts

[HDE]

Good point.
I guess it's OK for eastern Kentucky, but not western Kentucky, plus it's MUCH, MUCH tougher travel in the mountains than in the flatlands.
It's probably 2 and a half hours on a bus from Harlan County to Jackson County in the 13th.
The districts and regions are much farther apart in football and yet they find four teams in each district, except for the one in 6A.

[cksportsfan]

HDE,

Football ain't perfect. You've got Bell County in the same "region" with Louisville. I have never -- ever -- seen a map that considers Bell County "western Kentucky."

Plus, you only play one football game a week -- and DON'T have return trips (like you do in every seeded team sport).

Next year, Muhlenberg County will be thrown into a football district with Central Hardin. They have no ties. Not in the same region in any sport. Not in the same time zone. Central Hardin is closer to 12 others (at MINIMUM) 6-A schools, yet is now being forced to play Muhlenberg. Umm, what?

That's apples and aardvarks.

It's not about making people mad.

But it is far, far, far, far, far, far, far more complex than saying "this region has XX teams, so you extra XX teams, you're gone."

Now the 1st Region solutions aren't great, but they are a heckuva lot better than moving some 2nd or 3rd or even 4th Region team over there and increasing travel for a lot of people (the team that got moved into the 1st, which will now have three forced district road games that were a lot further than its old district AND the three teams that will now have to travel to the new region member).

John Hardin joining the 5th in 2001-02 and Thomas Nelson in 2012-2013 didn't change anything. It was two extra games (one road, one home) for district teams, but the new teams (JHHS, TNHS) were CLOSER for the old district rivals than the two non-district games those teams were playing in their place. Same for South Warren joining the BG/Warren district and Collins joining the Shelby district.

That CANNOT be said by forcing a non-close team into a new district.

When schools are struggling financially, you can't think they would willingly accept more travel AND later game times (to account for longer trips and time zones; this also means later nights getting back home) AND smaller gates (because new teams won't have the rivalry as other teams did AND less media coverage (because papers and radios and tv are likely to cover games between border or longtime rivals) and say "Well, we can't have three-team districts, gosh darn it."

Furthermore, no one up here cares that we're in a five-team district (formerly six) while two other districts have four. For about 20 years, the 17th was the only district in the 5th Region with more than four teams ... no one complained. Actually, the rest of the region was the one complaining because the 17th had the bigger schools with better athletic history (6-A Central Hardin, 5-A John Hardin, 5-A North Hardin and 3-A independent Elizabethtown).

[Strikeout King]

It's been approved


http://khsaa.org/12813-board-of-control-...lignments/

[ballboy]

It will not be very long to schools like Buckhorn and Jenkins Cordia will have to consolidate into their county schools thats what the state wants in rule area. McCracken County Central will do away with Reidland,Loan Oak and Heath next year.

[cksportsfan]

It will not be very long to schools like Buckhorn and Jenkins Cordia will have to consolidate into their county schools thats what the state wants in rule area. McCracken County Central will do away with Reidland,Loan Oak and Heath next year.

CONFIRMED. WILL GO INTO EFFECT NEXT SCHOOL YEAR.

Look! A three-team district!

http://khsaa.org/category/news-releases/...-releases/

"Following the consolidation of schools in McCracken County, KHSAA Commissioner Julian Tackett and area Board of Control members met with representatives from the first region in Mayfield. With all Region I schools in attendance, the feedback from the meeting was to realign within the region, and not bring additional teams into the region. Three options for realignment were presented following the meeting in Mayfield. On Monday, the Board voted to approve Option A for the 20013-14 season (detailed below), which will also be applied to baseball, softball, soccer and volleyball:

District 1 – Carlisle County, Fulton City, Fulton County, Hickman County

District 2 – Ballard Memorial, Graves County, Mayfield

District 3 – Community Christian, McCracken County, Paducah Tilghman, St. Mary

District 4 – Calloway County, Christian Fellowship, Marshall County, Murray"

The problem is in WKY, you've lost four schools since 2000 and gained none. Providence merged into Webster, Muhlenberg South and Muhlenberg North merged into Muhlenberg County and Heath-Reidland-Lone Oak into McCracken County.

Plus, some of the places that have "extras" aren't really possible to pull from:
- Thomas Nelson
- Collins
- Cooper
- South Warren
- North Oldham

All five have opened in the last 15 years. But NONE are likely to end up in districts away from the schools they came from (Thomas Nelson stays with Nelson, Collins stays with Shelby, Cooper stays with Ryle, South Warren stays with Greenwood and North Oldham stays with Oldham-South Oldham).

Plus, if you have excess in Louisville, NONE of the Louisville metro teams are likely to move. Even if it is 32-35-38 teams, all the Louisville-Jefferson teams are locked into the 6th and 7th Region.

So while it might seem there are plenty of teams you can move, there really aren't.

You can start a domino effect if you want, but not many folks are involved are for more travel and less-established rivalries (you're lucky if you have a connection at all) and will switch districts ONLY for the sake of avoiding a three-team district.

[OhHereWeGo]

I'm hoping the KHSAA starts looking at redistricting the state soon. I'm not a fan of the three team Pike County District at all.

[cksportsfan]

I'm hoping the KHSAA starts looking at redistricting the state soon. I'm not a fan of the three team Pike County District at all.

I'm NOT from that district or region.

However, I'm a fan of a three-team district that makes sense geographically.

I'm not a fan of three teams that make sense and throwing in a black sheep for the sake of having four. A sheep that doesn't want to be with the other three. Plus the other three don't want it.

[mcn]

Economics will be hitting many school districts sooner than later. Revenue for education has been held at a constant for the past several years, so in reality this is less and less money, since the cost of operation for school districts continues to increase. In this thread many have mentioned consolidation, which often occurs within counties only, either by the merger of independent district with the local county district OR by consolidation of county high schools within the same district.

Just recently though there has been talk of merging 2 county schools into one school district. The area this might occur in is in Eastern Kentucky. If revenue doesn't increase I believe this will become a reality too.

On the topic of 3 team districts, I'm in favor of this due to the geographical nature of many of the districts. It would be better to do this than place extra travel on teams/fans and PRESERVE the local and natural rivalries that exist. A regional tournament, whereby all teams would be eligible and determined by seeding would be another thought too.

[HDE]

CONFIRMED. WILL GO INTO EFFECT NEXT SCHOOL YEAR.

Look! A three-team district!

http://khsaa.org/category/news-releases/...-releases/

"Following the consolidation of schools in McCracken County, KHSAA Commissioner Julian Tackett and area Board of Control members met with representatives from the first region in Mayfield. With all Region I schools in attendance, the feedback from the meeting was to realign within the region, and not bring additional teams into the region. Three options for realignment were presented following the meeting in Mayfield. On Monday, the Board voted to approve Option A for the 20013-14 season (detailed below), which will also be applied to baseball, softball, soccer and volleyball:

District 1 – Carlisle County, Fulton City, Fulton County, Hickman County

District 2 – Ballard Memorial, Graves County, Mayfield

District 3 – Community Christian, McCracken County, Paducah Tilghman, St. Mary

District 4 – Calloway County, Christian Fellowship, Marshall County, Murray"

The problem is in WKY, you've lost four schools since 2000 and gained none. Providence merged into Webster, Muhlenberg South and Muhlenberg North merged into Muhlenberg County and Heath-Reidland-Lone Oak into McCracken County.

Plus, some of the places that have "extras" aren't really possible to pull from:
- Thomas Nelson
- Collins
- Cooper
- South Warren
- North Oldham

All five have opened in the last 15 years. But NONE are likely to end up in districts away from the schools they came from (Thomas Nelson stays with Nelson, Collins stays with Shelby, Cooper stays with Ryle, South Warren stays with Greenwood and North Oldham stays with Oldham-South Oldham).

Plus, if you have excess in Louisville, NONE of the Louisville metro teams are likely to move. Even if it is 32-35-38 teams, all the Louisville-Jefferson teams are locked into the 6th and 7th Region.

So while it might seem there are plenty of teams you can move, there really aren't.

You can start a domino effect if you want, but not many folks are involved are for more travel and less-established rivalries (you're lucky if you have a connection at all) and will switch districts ONLY for the sake of avoiding a three-team district.

You don't pull teams from halfway across the state to complete a district. It sounds like you're trying to make it complicated on purpose. The teams in a district would have to border each other, as they always have. I'm guessing there are teams in the 2nd Region that border teams in the 1st Region, and that's true all the way across the state. No one said you had to move Conner or South Warren to the 1st Region.
The state has gone from something like 500 schools to 273 and now we're supposed to believe 273 is the MAGIC number. We just can't do it anymore.
I think the part about the 15 teams in the 1st Region choosing not to bring in teams from another region kind of funny. Duh. We'll just keep our soft three-team district and let the other teams worry about five-team districts.

[cksportsfan]

Here's a really nice map of KY counties:
http://www.bellewood.org/wp-content/uplo...0-2011.jpg

There's only three non-region counties that border Region 1 schools: Livingston (1 school in county), Lyon (1 school in county) and Trigg (1 school in county).

- Livingston borders McCracken and Marshall, but there's no need for Livingston to be in a district with the four remaining McCracken schools.
- Lyon borders only ONE Region 1 County (Marshall)
- Trigg borders Marshall and Calloway

All three schools (Livingston, Lyon, Trigg) are in Region 2, District 5. A four-team district. So move any of the three and you just changed the location of the problem, but did not fix the problem. District 2 would no longer be three teams, but District 5 in Region 2 would be. And Region 2 ALREADY has a three-team district of its own (District 6 is Henderson, Union and Webster). So if you pull a team from Region 2, you then have to find TWO replacements for them (already at 15, losing a team to the 1st takes it down to 14).

Here's the Region 1 Counties and schools in them:

- Fulton (2)
- Hickman (1)
- Carlisle (1)
- Ballard (1)
- McCracken (4)
- Marshall (2)
- Calloway (2)
- Graves (2)

Even though Graves and Fulton have 2 each and share a border, you CAN'T just put them together like you can with Marshall and Calloway. And here's why: That leaves you with Hickman (1) + Carlisle (1) and Ballard (1) = 3. No other border rival PERIOD to choose from other than breaking up the four McCracken schools. And when you have four schools in their own county and district, why would you break them up and force one to travel to play 3 district teams (and host 3 teams with no ties) when they can stay "at home" and play three way way way closer teams?

Of the top of my head, here's the breakdown of districts by County:
01: 3 (Carlisle-1, Fulton-2, Hickman-1)
02: 2 (Ballard-1, Graves-2 ... and Graves "borders" Ballard like New Mexico borders Utah WITHOUT a eastern-western-northern-southern border or horizontal-vertical border. Basically, Graves and Ballard barely touch. Saying Graves and Ballard are huge border rivals worthy of being in the same district is like saying Oklahoma is a huge border rival with New Mexico (and not, you know, Texas, Kansas or Arkansas).
03: 1 (McCracken-4)
04: 2 (Calloway 2, Marshall 2)

05: 4 (Crittenden-1, Livingston-1, Lyon-1, Trigg-1)
06: 3 (Henderson-1, Union County-1, Webster-1)
07: 2 (Caldwell-2, Hopkins-2)
08: 1 (Christian-4)

09: 1 (Daviess-4)
10: 3 (McLean-1, Muhlenberg-1, Ohio-1)
11: 3 (Breckinridge-2, Hancock-1, Meade-1)
12: 4 (Butler-1, Daviess-1, Edmonson 1, Grayson-1 ... the Daviess school is Whitesville Trinity, which is more than 37 miles away from its closest district rival)

13: 3 (Franklin-1, Logan-2, Todd-1)
14: 1 (Warren-5)
15: 3 (Allen-1, Barren-2, Monroe-1)
16: 4 (Clinton-1, Cumberland-1, Metcalfe-1, Russell-1)

17: 1 (Hardin-5)
18: 3 (Green-1, Hart-2, LaRue-1)
19: 2 (Nelson-4, Washington-1)
20: 3 (Adair-1, Marion-1, Taylor-2)

There are 20 schools in the 6th -- 17 of them could be flip-flopped and shifted around in the 6th or 7th Region with no problem. However, only the three Bullitt schools are "eligible" to shift regions. So there's 17 (+1 from the 16 minimum) that aren't going anywhere.

There are 21 schools/18.5 teams in the 7th -- 16 coed, 3 girls, 2 boys -- and all of them are in Jefferson County. Unless they're moving to the 6th (which has ZERO three team districts), they're not going anywhere.

With Regions 1, 2 and 3 all having three-team districts in them, it's hard to shift teams out of there to help surrounding districts/regions get rid of their three-team district problem.

THAT ALL BEING SAID, who are these 5-team districts who are jealous of the 3-team districts? Who's complaining? Certainly no one from Warren (5-team 14th), Hardin (5-team 17th) or Nelson (5-team 19th). Meade County (a former 17th District team) is in a 3-team district in soccer and HATES it. Despises it. Travel sucks. Teams suck. No intense rivalries whatsover to pique fans' interest. Did I mention Meade DOMINATES its district, yet hates being there? The three-team districts aren't as "soft" as you make them out to be. You think Ballard Memorial thinks its a "soft" luxury to be in a district with 6-A Graves and independent power Mayfield? Heck no. No way. No how. No sir.

Several people -- on Kentucky Preps, Bluegrass Preps, Bluegrass Rivals, KHSAA, whoever -- have come up with all sorts of drafts. But your idea of 64 4-team or 5-team districts and no 3-team or 6-team districts is a pipe dream.

I have yet to see ANY new version that makes me say, "Hey, that's not half bad."

One plausible draft would be a start ... but I have yet to see it. I'm not talking an A-Grade draft. I have yet to see a C-grade draft that would:
A) Eliminate every three team district
B) And make sense geographically, time zone-ally and border-ally).

Many drafts have taken care of A at a huge -- we are talking massive -- expense of B.

[allenc4]

Someone should make a color coded county map of the state with each school placed (with say a dot) on the map color coded with their region for those of us who just lose track trying to follow everyone... CK your posts have been very detailed and well thought out, you can handle the map right? LOL!

But seriously, if anyone has seen a map like that, please post it sometime