[vector]

http://www.foxbusiness.com/personal-fina...ire-early/

[WideMiddle03]

http://news.yahoo.com/obamacare-horizon-...55434.html

http://news.yahoo.com/apnewsbreak-states...19943.html

[Hoot Gibson]

Forcing folks to retire early so that they can afford medical care. Brilliant idea! Why can't Republicans come up with ideas like this? Just think of how much better the unemployment numbers will look if Obama can succeed in forcing those who should be enjoying the most productive and prosperous years of their lives to let Uncle Sam take care of them instead.

[Wildcatk23]

Forcing folks to retire early so that they can afford medical care. Brilliant idea! Why can't Republicans come up with ideas like this? Just think of how much better the unemployment numbers will look if Obama can succeed in forcing those who should be enjoying the most productive and prosperous years of their lives to let Uncle Sam take care of them instead.

50-65 most productive? The article never mentioned forcing anyone to retire. Just people that have lost their job or can't afford current healthcare because of their preexisting conditions. Retirement hardly is an option anymore because companies will fire you a year or 2 before you can. It's hard to find another job when your 60 yeas old.

[vector]

Forcing folks to retire early so that they can afford medical care. Brilliant idea! Why can't Republicans come up with ideas like this? Just think of how much better the unemployment numbers will look if Obama can succeed in forcing those who should be enjoying the most productive and prosperous years of their lives to let Uncle Sam take care of them instead.

it's what kind of work you are in this part of the country it's coal mines
if you started your job in the mines at the age of 18 you not be eligble for
medicare unless you are 65 or been disable 2 years so you would have to work
47 years underground not too many can do that then if you are disable you got
2 years that you have to pay for your health insurance now do you honestly
THINK that a health insurance company is going to sell you insurance

[vector]

Forcing folks to retire early so that they can afford medical care. Brilliant idea! Why can't Republicans come up with ideas like this? Just think of how much better the unemployment numbers will look if Obama can succeed in forcing those who should be enjoying the most productive and prosperous years of their lives to let Uncle Sam take care of them instead.

and another thing we all can't have jobs where we sit on our ass all day

[Hoot Gibson]

50-65 most productive? The article never mentioned forcing anyone to retire. Just people that have lost their job or can't afford current healthcare because of their preexisting conditions. Retirement hardly is an option anymore because companies will fire you a year or 2 before you can. It's hard to find another job when your 60 yeas old.

Traditionally the later years in a person's career have been the period during which their earnings are the greatest. It is also the period during which most people are able to invest much more money into their retirement because their children have completed college, their own mortgages have been paid off, etc. That is increasingly not the case.

It is a bizarre world in which we live, where people are forced to retire in order to afford medical care because of soaring premium costs and, by doing so, lower the official unemployment rate. By the time Obama manages to get the unemployment rate under 6 percent, our economy is going to be so screwed up that it may never recover.

[Wildcatk23]

.

[Wildcatk23]

it's what kind of work you are in this part of the country it's coal mines
if you started your job in the mines at the age of 18 you not be eligble for
medicare unless you are 65 or been disable 2 years so you would have to work
47 years underground not too many can do that then if you are disable you got
2 years that you have to pay for your health insurance now do you honestly
THINK that a health insurance company is going to sell you insurance

Many people choose to stay here and work in the mines to raise their families and keep the land and homes passed down to them. It's pitiful how long one must stay underground having rocks fall on them . Once their crippled and can hardly shoot a game of ball with their sons it's to late.

The mines cutting corners an skipping protection laws only to make max profit. A few people get killed and the only people that care are the family members. The company gets fines and shutdown because the unwilling to keep their mine up to current safety regulations. Then everybody that knows nothing about the mines or the situation yells about the government.

Jim booth hasn't laid one worker off. Because he keeps his mines up to regulation an cares about his workers.

Mines in Indiana, Illinois. Michigan are booming. All these little day and night companies come for a couple months hire a bunch of people, make tons of money, dumps their sludge in the local pond, buys some fish , fires all their workers and then moves on after getting fined for breaking regulations. Then we hear about the government shutting them down.

[Wildcatk23]

and another thing we all can't have jobs where we sit on our ass all day

Not nocking a man for working hard and having a good job. He obviously earned what he has and where he is at in his life.

[vector]

Many people choose to stay here and work in the mines to raise their families and keep the land and homes passed down to them. It's pitiful how long one must stay underground having rocks fall on them . Once their crippled and can hardly shoot a game of ball with their sons it's to late.

The mines cutting corners an skipping protection laws only to make max profit. A few people get killed and the only people that care are the family members. The company gets fines and shutdown because the unwilling to keep their mine up to current safety regulations. Then everybody that knows nothing about the mines or the situation yells about the government.

Jim booth hasn't laid one worker off. Because he keeps his mines up to regulation an cares about his workers.

Mines in Indiana, Illinois. Michigan are booming. All these little day and night companies come for a couple months hire a bunch of people, make tons of money, dumps their sludge in the local pond, buys some fish , fires all their workers and then moves on after getting fined for breaking regulations. Then we hear about the government shutting them down.

been working in the mines since 1977 almost 36 years don't believe I can do it
for another 11 years

[Hoot Gibson]

it's what kind of work you are in this part of the country it's coal mines
if you started your job in the mines at the age of 18 you not be eligble for
medicare unless you are 65 or been disable 2 years so you would have to work
47 years underground not too many can do that then if you are disable you got
2 years that you have to pay for your health insurance now do you honestly
THINK that a health insurance company is going to sell you insurance

People who decide to enter the mining industry at a young age and plan to retire doing hard, physical labor at 65 are not very bright. That is an unreasonable expectation. If you decide to work in the coal mines of eastern Kentucky, in seams that are often 32 inches thick or less, and do not have a goal to move into a supervisory position or at least into surface mining, then shame on you. If I owned an underground coal mine that operated in "low coal," I would not be looking to hire 60 year olds to crawl around all day either. The law may require it, but that is just plain dumb.

Obamacare is driving up the cost of healthcare insurance and liberal Democrats like Obama know that people who are most dependent on the federal government for survival are far more likely to vote for them than not. The national Democratic Party thrives when Americans are most miserable.

[Hoot Gibson]

Many people choose to stay here and work in the mines to raise their families and keep the land and homes passed down to them. It's pitiful how long one must stay underground having rocks fall on them . Once their crippled and can hardly shoot a game of ball with their sons it's to late.

The mines cutting corners an skipping protection laws only to make max profit. A few people get killed and the only people that care are the family members. The company gets fines and shutdown because the unwilling to keep their mine up to current safety regulations. Then everybody that knows nothing about the mines or the situation yells about the government.

Jim booth hasn't laid one worker off. Because he keeps his mines up to regulation an cares about his workers.

Mines in Indiana, Illinois. Michigan are booming. All these little day and night companies come for a couple months hire a bunch of people, make tons of money, dumps their sludge in the local pond, buys some fish , fires all their workers and then moves on after getting fined for breaking regulations. Then we hear about the government shutting them down.

You have no idea what you are talking about. There are no coal mines active in Michigan.

[Hoot Gibson]

been working in the mines since 1977 almost 36 years don't believe I can do it
for another 11 years

I started working in the mines in 1976 as a general laborer in the UMWA, but I never planned to be a general laborer at age 65. Nobody owes you a job and the federal government should not force the rest of us to support you when you decide that you can no longer work because of poor career choices.

[vector]

People who decide to enter the mining industry at a young age and plan to retire doing hard, physical labor at 65 are not very bright. That is an unreasonable expectation. If you decide to work in the coal mines of eastern Kentucky, in seams that are often 32 inches thick or less, and do not have a goal to move into a supervisory position or at least into surface mining, then shame on you. If I owned an underground coal mine that operated in "low coal," I would not be looking to hire 60 year olds to crawl around all day either. The law may require it, but that is just plain dumb.

Obamacare is driving up the cost of healthcare insurance and liberal Democrats like Obama know that people who are most dependent on the federal government for survival are far more likely to vote for them than not. The national Democratic Party thrives when Americans are most miserable.

now you are showing your true colors

[Hoot Gibson]

now you are showing your true colors

No, I am showing yours. You are stuck in a physically demanding job, doubting that you will be able to last another 11 years of work, and you think that Obamacare offers people like you a way out. My goal in life has never been to work just long enough to qualify for some government handout that will allow me to take it easy for the rest of my life. Obamacare is just another liberal scheme to rob people of the self esteem that comes from being self sufficient. Democrats know that it will be a financial fiasco and are already blaming Republicans for its certain failure. P.T. Barnum famously once said that there is a sucker born every minute. Liberal Democrats are in the business of sucker proliferation.

[vector]

No, I am showing yours. You are stuck in a physically demanding job, doubting that you will be able to last another 11 years of work, and you think that Obamacare offers people like you a way out. My goal in life has never been to work just long enough to qualify for some government handout that will allow me to take it easy for the rest of my life. Obamacare is just another liberal scheme to rob people of the self esteem that comes from being self sufficient. Democrats know that it will be a financial fiasco and are already blaming Republicans for its certain failure. P.T. Barnum famously once said that there is a sucker born every minute. Liberal Democrats are in the business of sucker proliferation.

everybody can't have office jobs you just don't get it

[Hoot Gibson]

everybody can't have office jobs you just don't get it

Nobody said that everybody should have an office job. Manual labor is a young man's job, just like most professional sports. There are plenty of jobs that don't tie you to a desk but don't require you to work in coal seams that are the height of a tabletop either. I get it. You don't.

[TheRealVille]

No, I am showing yours. You are stuck in a physically demanding job, doubting that you will be able to last another 11 years of work, and you think that Obamacare offers people like you a way out. My goal in life has never been to work just long enough to qualify for some government handout that will allow me to take it easy for the rest of my life. Obamacare is just another liberal scheme to rob people of the self esteem that comes from being self sufficient. Democrats know that it will be a financial fiasco and are already blaming Republicans for its certain failure. P.T. Barnum famously once said that there is a sucker born every minute. Liberal Democrats are in the business of sucker proliferation.

My goal in life has always been to work my until my retirement time, then do just that, retire and rest the rest of my life. If your goal has been to work an every day job until you die, good for you. I hope you are able to do just that. A lot of people want to work, retire, and travel, rest, and take it easy. BTW, the social security part of your retirement is not a government handout.

[Hoot Gibson]

My goal in life has always been to work my until my retirement time, then do just that, retire and rest the rest of my life. If your goal has been to work an every day job until you die, good for you. I hope you are able to do just that. A lot of people want to work, retire, and travel, rest, and take it easy. BTW, the social security part of your retirement is not a government handout.

I never said that it was. I chose my current profession because I enjoy it, after more or less drifting into my first career because of my math and science ability. I don't fault anybody for working and retiring at whatever age that they want, as long as they can afford to do so without my financial assistance. Most of us will never draw as much in Social Security benefits that comes anywhere near the value of what we paid in (had we been free to invest that money ourselves). For myself, I get more satisfaction from working than I do from loafing. If I was not getting paid to program, then I would be doing it for free. It is the next best thing to getting paid to play baseball and nobody was willing to pay me to pitch.

[Wildcatk23]

You have no idea what you are talking about. There are no coal mines active in Michigan.

At any point and time tell me where i mentioned the word coal?

Once again you jump to a conclusion without knowing what your even reading.

[Hoot Gibson]

At any point and time tell me where i mentioned the word coal?

Once again you jump to a conclusion without knowing what your even reading.

The subject was coal mining and every other state that you mentioned is a major coal producing state. If you don't want to admit that you were wrong, then don't - it is what I expect from liberals.

[vector]

I never said that it was. I chose my current profession because I enjoy it, after more or less drifting into my first career because of my math and science ability. I don't fault anybody for working and retiring at whatever age that they want, as long as they can afford to do so without my financial assistance. Most of us will never draw as much in Social Security benefits that comes anywhere near the value of what we paid in (had we been free to invest that money ourselves). For myself, I get more satisfaction from working than I do from loafing. If I was not getting paid to program, then I would be doing it for free. It is the next best thing to getting paid to play baseball and nobody was willing to pay me to pitch.

if you draw social for 10 to 12 years you will get more than you paid in

[Hoot Gibson]

if you draw social for 10 to 12 years you will get more than you paid in

I never said that you wouldn't. What you won't get is the value that all of the money that you paid in would have had if it had been invested in something other than federal IOUs. The government does not even put the money that you pay in to SS into a mattress, they spend it as soon as they get it. If we invested the same amount of money that we pay into SS over our lifetimes into stocks and bonds, the amount that we would have at age 65 would dwarf what any of us will every draw in benefits. There is no Social Security trust fund - it is nothing but smoke and mirrors and that is all that it has ever been.

Working people pay the benefits for retired people because the money that the retirees paid into the system was spent as the government withheld it from their checks. If a private retirement system worked the same way, the administrators of the fund would go to jail.

[Wildcatk23]

The subject was coal mining and every other state that you mentioned is a major coal producing state. If you don't want to admit that you were wrong, then don't - it is what I expect from liberals.

When your a shaft and slope contractor just does mines for coal, sulfide, gold and many other materials your not subject to one particular field.

These states along with Colarado and West Virginia are the states my family usually works in. I mentioned them because that's where they work.


But if u any to think that I was wrong somehow because u thought I was talking about coal mines. That's fine. I expect no more from you.

[Hoot Gibson]

When your a shaft and slope contractor just does mines for coal, sulfide, gold and many other materials your not subject to one particular field.

These states along with Colarado and West Virginia are the states my family usually works in. I mentioned them because that's where they work.


But if u any to think that I was wrong somehow because u thought I was talking about coal mines. That's fine. I expect no more from you.

Everything being discussed involved coal mines and those of us who have worked in them. Then you mentioned that the mines in Michigan, Indiana, and Illinois are thriving, in the same post that you brought up Jim Booth, who as far as I know exclusively operates mines in the coal industry. You did not mention Colorado or West Virginia in the post, both of which are coal producers, but neither of which was mentioned in the post where you listed Michigan for its thriving "mines."

Like I said, when you talk about coal mining outside of eastern Kentucky, you don't have a clue. Michigan has no active coal mines and it has not had an active mining industry in many years. It does have coal deposits but they are too thin to be economically recovered.

Deny that you did not know that Michigan has no coal mines all you want, but the context of the posts in this thread make the truth of the matter pretty clear. There is no shame in being wrong - the shame comes from refusing to acknowledge one's mistakes.

[Wildcatk23]

Everything being discussed involved coal mines and those of us who have worked in them. Then you mentioned that the mines in Michigan, Indiana, and Illinois are thriving, in the same post that you brought up Jim Booth, who as far as I know exclusively operates mines in the coal industry. You did not mention Colorado or West Virginia in the post, both of which are coal producers, but neither of which was mentioned in the post where you listed Michigan for its thriving "mines."

Like I said, when you talk about coal mining outside of eastern Kentucky, you don't have a clue. Michigan has no active coal mines and it has not had an active mining industry in many years. It does have coal deposits but they are too thin to be economically recovered.

Deny that you did not know that Michigan has no coal mines all you want, but the context of the posts in this thread make the truth of the matter pretty clear. There is no shame in being wrong - the shame comes from refusing to acknowledge one's mistakes.

Mines not coal mines.

I hit 2-3 different topics. I meant exactly what I said. Mines. Cowin doesn't do coal mines in eastern Kentucky.

Its funny you want me to admit I am wrong when your the one who is mistaken.

[Hoot Gibson]

Mines not coal mines.

I hit 2-3 different topics. I meant exactly what I said. Mines. Cowin doesn't do coal mines in eastern Kentucky.

Its funny you want me to admit I am wrong when your the one who is mistaken.

OK, I know that you have had time to do some Googling, but I will ask the question anyway. What type of mining companies are thriving in Michigan? You should be able to answer quickly if you knew what you were talking about.

[vector]

I never said that you wouldn't. What you won't get is the value that all of the money that you paid in would have had if it had been invested in something other than federal IOUs. The government does not even put the money that you pay in to SS into a mattress, they spend it as soon as they get it. If we invested the same amount of money that we pay into SS over our lifetimes into stocks and bonds, the amount that we would have at age 65 would dwarf what any of us will every draw in benefits. There is no Social Security trust fund - it is nothing but smoke and mirrors and that is all that it has ever been.

Working people pay the benefits for retired people because the money that the retirees paid into the system was spent as the government withheld it from their checks. If a private retirement system worked the same way, the administrators of the fund would go to jail.

now if we put social security money in the stock market like you want to
well if you was ready to retire in 2007 2008 2009 then you would be in a
bad place would you agree to that

[Wildcatk23]

OK, I know that you have had time to do some Googling, but I will ask the question anyway. What type of mining companies are thriving in Michigan? You should be able to answer quickly if you knew what you were talking about.

Sulfide. Upper Michigan by the lakes .