[Belfry0304]

In the course of the entire scuffle they could have moved from concrete to grass, etc.

[TheRealVille]

anyone see the concrete
[Image: http://theconservativetreehouse.files.wo...rative.jpg]

Look at the police picture I posted. It shows the true context of everything. BTW, the real police photo shows that this picture can't be where the body was, at least not as close as the red shows.

[TheRealVille]

In the course of the entire scuffle they could have moved from concrete to grass, etc.

That wasn't the way Zimmerman told it.

[Belfry0304]

When whites stop with the racial bias of wanting them to act and dress exactly like them. I'm not talking about law abiding, everybody should be held accountable for law breaking. But, profiling for skin color, dress, speech, and other things is not acceptable. I'm sure, no matter how smart, or hard working a black man is, if he talks "ghetto" for lack of a better word, and dresses the different way some blacks do, you wouldn't respect him near as much as dressing and talking like we do, casual or business casual. It's just fact.

I don't think that's just a "black" thing, white people who dress and act differently are looked at in another light. That's a class issue, not a race issue. It's considered unclassy more than anything.

[nky]

[Image: http://bcclist.files.wordpress.com/2012/...w-tarp.jpg]

[Image: http://static01.mediaite.com/med/wp-cont...8_free.jpg]

The yellow plastic is covering his body.

[Belfry0304]

That wasn't the way Zimmerman told it.

That's a good point, but when he shot him Martin could have moved some since he was conscious for 10-15 and reportedly by the police likely moved his arms in that time plus they rolled him over from face down so if they rolled him in the direction away from the concrete that is another issue. I don't believe Zimmerman followed Martin because he was black, hell he didn't know Trayvon was black until a few minutes into the 911 call. I think the clothes and the suspiciousness of anyone who isn't recognized walking in the rain slowly between houses in a high crime neighborhood wearing a hoodie (making it harder to identify them) is what caused this all. Black white asian idc.

I do think Zimmerman should have identified himself as Neighborhood watch coordinator, but regardless that gave Martin no reason to lash out.

[TheRealVille]

The yellow plastic is covering his body.

Yes, with Martins head facing the concrete. If he was on top of Zimmerman, he would be sitting up from that position facing the condos. Zimmerman,if truthful, would be laying the other direction, far away from the concrete. Martin didn't walk after he was shot. He had to fall backwards, with his head still 6 feet from the concrete, which means Zimmerman's head had to be at least 6-10 feet from the sidewalk. Look at the photo, Martin is perpendicular to the concrete.


Btw, there are actual police photos that show everything. There is no need to post the picture with the red markings, we don't know them to be even close.

[Belfry0304]

The fact is based on evidence and eyewitness accounts everything Zimmerman said lined up, and this wouldn't have even been a case if it weren't for racists like Sharpton and Jackson making a federal case of it. I feel for the Martin family, no one should have to bury their child, but if the story given that the evidence supports is true then the man did what he had to do when being attacked (and there's pictures to support that if nothing else he got wailed on pretty hard)

Let's not forget the voice stress analysis comparable to a lie detector where the giver of that test asked Zimmerman if he confronted Martin to start the whole ordeal and he said No, and if he feared for his life when he shot Martin and he said yes, and the test says he was 100% truthful in his answers.

[TheRealVille]

That's a good point, but when he shot him Martin could have moved some since he was conscious for 10-15 and reportedly by the police likely moved his arms in that time plus they rolled him over from face down so if they rolled him in the direction away from the concrete that is another issue. I don't believe Zimmerman followed Martin because he was black, hell he didn't know Trayvon was black until a few minutes into the 911 call. I think the clothes and the suspiciousness of anyone who isn't recognized walking in the rain slowly between houses in a high crime neighborhood wearing a hoodie (making it harder to identify them) is what caused this all. Black white asian idc.

I do think Zimmerman should have identified himself as Neighborhood watch coordinator, but regardless that gave Martin no reason to lash out.

That's also not what Zimmerman said, or the medical examiner. He didn't move after shot. Also, as I explained, his body is perpendicular to the concrete which even if rolled doesn't change the distance from the concrete. To be the way he landed, if he was on top of Zimmerman, that put Zimmerman's head even farther away from the concrete.

[TheRealVille]

The fact is based on evidence and eyewitness accounts everything Zimmerman said lined up, and this wouldn't have even been a case if it weren't for racists like Sharpton and Jackson making a federal case of it. I feel for the Martin family, no one should have to bury their child, but if the story given that the evidence supports is true then the man did what he had to do when being attacked (and there's pictures to support that if nothing else he got wailed on pretty hard)

Let's not forget the voice stress analysis comparable to a lie detector where the giver of that test asked Zimmerman if he confronted Martin to start the whole ordeal and he said No, and if he feared for his life when he shot Martin and he said yes, and the test says he was 100% truthful in his answers.

You got anything on this? Zimmerman was caught changing his story more than once.

[Belfry0304]

That's also not what Zimmerman said, or the medical examiner. He didn't move after shot. Also, as I explained, his body is perpendicular to the concrete which even if rolled doesn't change the distance from the concrete. To be the way he landed, if he was on top of Zimmerman, that put Zimmerman's head even farther away from the concrete.

Don't think they'd roll him in one spot, though. You know what I mean? Seems like for example his right shoulder wouldn't change position but his left would go from one side to the other... if that makes sense.

[nky]

Yes, with Martins head facing the concrete. If he was on top of Zimmerman, he would be sitting up from that position facing the condos. Zimmerman,if truthful, would be laying the other direction, far away from the concrete. Martin didn't walk after he was shot. He had to fall backwards, with his head still 6 feet from the concrete, which means Zimmerman's head had to be at least 6-10 feet from the sidewalk. Look at the photo, Martin is perpendicular to the concrete.


Btw, there are actual police photos that show everything. There is no need to post the picture with the red markings, we don't know them to be even close.

[Image: http://www.thefatcontroller.co.uk/portfo...anders.jpg] Guess the jury didn't see it they way you do

[Hoot Gibson]

3-4 feet? You've been lying to your wife. Martin was 5' 11". Even if he is 6 feet away, which is about what it looks like, that is not close enough to hit Zimmerman's head on the concrete, even if they rolled him over. That body isn't parallel to the sidewalk, it's perpendicular. Rolling the body they way it is laying wouldn't change the distance.

An eywitness placed Martin and Zimmerman at the edge of the concrete, with Zimmerman on the bottom. Sidewalks are typically 4 feet wide and we do not know how much the body was moved by police during their collection of evidence. What we do have is the fact that the prosecution did not dispute the location of the altercation. Once again, you seem to be making up facts that were not placed into evidence.

[nky]

You got anything on this? Zimmerman was caught changing his story more than once.

which is not unusual in this type of case as details begin to come back in focus

[Belfry0304]

which is not unusual in this type of case as details begin to come back in focus

Yeah and considering how close his has been for the usual amount in this case I think his story stayed pretty respectable.

[Hoot Gibson]

You got anything on this? Zimmerman was caught changing his story more than once.

Are you serious? You throw out all of these alleged facts that the prosecution for some strange reason was unaware of, yet you missed the fact that Zimmerman voluntarily submitted to a voice stress test on the night of the shooting and passed it before he even consulted a lawyer? Talk about willful ignorance! :biglmao:

[Belfry0304]

You got anything on this? Zimmerman was caught changing his story more than once.

http://www.newsmax.com/us/us-neighborhoo.../id/443555

So you can take anything you say as fact but disregard ours? You're as ridiculous as Sharpton right now.

[TheRealVille]

An eywitness placed Martin and Zimmerman at the edge of the concrete, with Zimmerman on the bottom. Sidewalks are typically 4 feet wide and we do not know how much the body was moved by police during their collection of evidence. What we do have is the fact that the prosecution did not dispute the location of the altercation. Once again, you seem to be making up facts that were not placed into evidence.

Again, the police testified that they only rolled the body over. Martin's head is toward the concrete, his shoe toward the condos. Zimmerman said he didn't move after shot, and the ME backed it up. Look at the photo, and think, without bias. If Martin is laying in the position he is in, he would be 90% sitting up when he was pounding Zimmerman. Zimmerman's head would have to be facing away from the concrete for what he said to be true. He said he shot martin, and he fell back. It is impossible for Martin to have been pounding Zimmerman's head on the concrete at the time of the shooting. I wasn't going to, but since it's already been posted, I'll put the picture below to show the context. Think about the picture, and the testimony. Also, knowing Martin was 5' 11", put that length(in the picture) in context of how far his head is from the sidewalk.


[Image: http://static01.mediaite.com/med/wp-cont...8_free.jpg]

[TheRealVille]

http://www.newsmax.com/us/us-neighborhoo.../id/443555

So you can take anything you say as fact but disregard ours? You're as ridiculous as Sharpton right now.

I just wanted to see where you got that. Nothing more. Which brings up another point, why didn't Zimmerman identify himself as neighborhood watch? That might have diffused the situation, as they said. I try to post where my facts come from. If I forget, ask me and I'll post them

[Hoot Gibson]

http://www.newsmax.com/us/us-neighborhoo.../id/443555

So you can take anything you say as fact but disregard ours? You're as ridiculous as Sharpton right now.

A standard sidewalk in an apartment complex is 48 inches. If RV is correct and Martin's body is perfectly perpendicular to the sidewalk and extends the full length of the blanket, that would put him at about 3 feet tall. Or maybe the sidewalk is over 7 feet wide. The numbers do not add up.

[Hoot Gibson]

I just wanted to see where you got that. Nothing more. Which brings up another point, why didn't Zimmerman identify himself as neighborhood watch? That might have diffused the situation, as they said.

Maybe he was not given time before he hit the ground. Why didn't Martin call 911 instead of ambushing Zimmerman?

[TheRealVille]

A standard sidewalk in an apartment complex is 48 inches. If RV is correct and Martin's body is perfectly perpendicular to the sidewalk and extends the full length of the blanket, that would put him at about 3 feet tall. Or maybe the sidewalk is over 7 feet wide. The numbers do not add up.

There are two pictures to show that his head is at one end of the blanket, and a shoe sticking out the other end. Look at his shoe in the one picture with the side walk, think 5' 11", and go backwards. Then context that measurement on up to the concrete.

[Image: http://static01.mediaite.com/med/wp-cont...8_free.jpg]
[Image: http://static01.mediaite.com/med/wp-cont...8_free.jpg]

[Hoot Gibson]

There are two pictures to show that his head is at one end of the blanket, and a shoe sticking out the other end. Look at his shoe in the one picture with the side walk, think 5' 11", and go backwards. Then context that measurement on up to the concrete.

[Image: http://static01.mediaite.com/med/wp-cont...8_free.jpg]
[Image: http://static01.mediaite.com/med/wp-cont...8_free.jpg]

If the white spot in the long distance shot is his shoe, then he obviously was not positioned perpendicular to the sidewalk. If he was lying perpendicular to the walk, then the scale suggests that he was a pygmy or that the sidewalk was extremely wide.

The photo also raises other issues. Did you not state at some point in this thread that there were no bushes from which Martin could have emerged? I see bushes, although they are not very tall. However, it does look like there are white walls between apartments, which would have made convenient hiding places for an attacker.

Also, would you not find it suspicious to see a man walking in the wet grass near apartment buildings instead of on the sidewalks? I have not seen detailed photos, but if the community was a typical one, then there would be patios on the bottom level and balconies above. When I see somebody walking close to my patio, I look out my door to see why they are so close to my stuff. I don't think reasonable people walk so close to people's patio without a very good reason. Getting your feet soaked does not qualify as a good reason, IMO.

Anybody who cannot understand why Zimmerman would have found Martin's behavior suspicious is not being honest with themselves.

[Harry Rex Vonner]

When whites stop with the racial bias of wanting them to act and dress exactly like them. I'm not talking about law abiding, everybody should be held accountable for law breaking. But, profiling for skin color, dress, speech, and other things is not acceptable. I'm sure, no matter how smart, or hard working a black man is, if he talks "ghetto" for lack of a better word, and dresses the different way some blacks do, you wouldn't respect him near as much as dressing and talking like we do, casual or business casual. It's just fact.

Everyone, including blacks, profiles on the basis of "skin color, dress, speech, and other things". That is human nature and a fact of life. It is often called "first impression". Whether it is unacceptable or not is in the eyes of the beholder.

As an example, if someone, black or white, comes into my office looking like a neon sign, speaking in some odd deviation from the King's English, and gives every indication that he/she was clearly not valedictorian of his/her class in elementary school, I guarantee you that I will have him/her profiled immediately.

If this is your answer to my question, it is poor. You have what you consider a lofty goal (treating everyone the same). Just how are you going to accomplish it?

[TheRealThing]

He's a 17 year old kid. That's what they do. They do stupid stuff. But, walking where he was visiting, being profiled, and getting killed shouldn't come with being a teenager. This case is political, WC, make no mistake. It is completely divided by party lines, and race lines, but I am the only one with the nuts to admit it. Everyone for Zimmerman in this thread has a bias, and a Fox slant. My slant comes from CNN, and having a kid the exact same age as Treyvon. Damn, I hope someone almost 30 years old doesn't kill my kid if they do something stupid before in their life, then walk to the store to get candy for a younger kid.


BTW, I don't care if it was the other way around, as far as race, I'd still feel the same way. But, you can bet your ass, others here wouldn't say a peep. That's fact.

The fact is your psychological profile would make good book fodder for any aspiring psychologist. :biggrin:

[TheRealThing]

If the white spot in the long distance shot is his shoe, then he obviously was not positioned perpendicular to the sidewalk. If he was lying perpendicular to the walk, then the scale suggests that he was a pygmy or that the sidewalk was extremely wide.

The photo also raises other issues. Did you not state at some point in this thread that there were no bushes from which Martin could have emerged? I see bushes, although they are not very tall. However, it does look like there are white walls between apartments, which would have made convenient hiding places for an attacker.

Also, would you not find it suspicious to see a man walking in the wet grass near apartment buildings instead of on the sidewalks? I have not seen detailed photos, but if the community was a typical one, then there would be patios on the bottom level and balconies above. When I see somebody walking close to my patio, I look out my door to see why they are so close to my stuff. I don't think reasonable people walk so close to people's patio without a very good reason. Getting your feet soaked does not qualify as a good reason, IMO.

Anybody who cannot understand why Zimmerman would have found Martin's behavior suspicious is not being honest with themselves.

The bushes are certainly there, and Trayvon could have easily used them as cover on a dark, rainy night. If Zimmerman had made as many inconsistent statements as I saw posted by RV, the prosecution would have flash fried him.

[Hoot Gibson]

The bushes are certainly there, and Trayvon could have easily used them as cover on a dark, rainy night. If Zimmerman had made as many inconsistent statements as I saw posted by RV, the prosecution would have flash fried him.

:thatsfunn If RV had been prosecuting the case, he would have been disbarred before lunch.

[TheRealThing]

Everyone, including blacks, profiles on the basis of "skin color, dress, speech, and other things". That is human nature and a fact of life. It is often called "first impression". Whether it is unacceptable or not is in the eyes of the beholder.

As an example, if someone, black or white, comes into my office looking like a neon sign, speaking in some odd deviation from the King's English, and gives every indication that he/she was clearly not valedictorian of his/her class in elementary school, I guarantee you that I will have him/her profiled immediately.

If this is your answer to my question, it is poor. You have what you consider a lofty goal (treating everyone the same). Just how are you going to accomplish it?

According to liberals one is not supposed to use his own common sense to judge who and what is dangerous in this world. And, they call that process profiling as if it is the ultimate racial tip off. By that logic, liberals should be enraged when a guy with green teeth and guns hanging all over him walks into an old west bar scene. People adopt 'looks' for a reason. Bikers do it, so do gang members. You gonna tell me if one is walking through the 'hood' and there is 8 or 10 guys standing around smoking pot, drinking beer, and wearing T-shirts that say "death to crackers" while target practicing with machete's that Joe Preppy should walk up to them and ask for directions to the local RNC headquarters? :please:

[TheRealThing]

He can be tried civilly, and you can bet the DOJ will pick this back up. Remember Rodney and the cops? They were initially acquitted, but eventually went to prison. While he can't be tried for murder again, he can be tried on other charges at the federal level.

According to the judge interviewed on the News, a verdict of innocent by reason of self defense carries with it immunity of civil proceedings.

[nky]

President Barack Obama issued the following statement Sunday following the verdict in the George Zimmerman trial.
[INDENT]"The death of Trayvon Martin was a tragedy. Not just for his family, or for any one community, but for America. I know this case has elicited strong passions. And in the wake of the verdict, I know those passions may be running even higher. But we are a nation of laws, and a jury has spoken. I now ask every American to respect the call for calm reflection from two parents who lost their young son. And as we do, we should ask ourselves if we’re doing all we can to widen the circle of compassion and understanding in our own communities. We should ask ourselves if we’re doing all we can to stem the tide of gun violence that claims too many lives across this country on a daily basis. We should ask ourselves, as individuals and as a society, how we can prevent future tragedies like this. As citizens, that’s a job for all of us. That’s the way to honor Trayvon Martin."


Mr President it would have been a tragedy for the Zimmerman family if George wasn't able to defend himself
[/INDENT]