[Harry Rex Vonner]

NOW HE BELIEVES THE RUSSIANS :biglmao:

It is a sad state of affairs when we have as much reason to believe the Russians as our own government. I would certainly believe Putin as quickly as I would believe Obama, Pelosi, Reid, or even Boehner.

[TheRealThing]

^And FWIW, the only reason most Obama supporters even enter the fray (debate) in the first place, is because they think this is about Democrats being right and "fer the werkin man", while Republicans are rich, arrogant egoists, to be defeated at any cost.

Like their imperious leader Richard Trumka, they have been played for fools by dems who care about only one thing, their vote. Trumka was out there blazing away at Republicans for standing in the way of ObamaCare back in Obama's first term. He and James Hoffa are howling like scalded dogs now that they realize the true threat that ObamaCare poses to their rank and file membership. Before it's over, they'll be taxed 40% on their policies and will still have to pay for the poor folks who will get as good or better care than they will.

It's certainly okay with the dems if die hard union democrats go down with the ship, LOL, what do they care? It is truly amazing to think that none of them seem to realize they're fighting for liberal causes not democratic causes, which, when achieved, will do nothing but hurt us all. Especially the prized elite status union craftsmen have managed to carve out for themselves. It would be hilarious if not so tragic.

[insideinfo]

It is a sad state of affairs when we have as much reason to believe the Russians as our own government. I would certainly believe Putin as quickly as I would believe Obama, Pelosi, Reid, or even Boehner.

Do not forget Mitch's name on there. He no better than the rest of them. You have to start with him when you start talking about the down fall of the Republican Party.

[Harry Rex Vonner]

Do not forget Mitch's name on there. He no better than the rest of them. You have to start with him when you start talking about the down fall of the Republican Party.

You are correct. And, unfortunately, nominating Bevin would only pave the way for the absolutely incompetent Lundergan.

[insideinfo]

You are correct. And, unfortunately, nominating Bevin would only pave the way for the absolutely incompetent Lundergan.

We almost have to vote for Mitch to keep her out, and this is almost a shame.

[vundy33]

I've started to change my mind on this a but after seeing politics play such a big role. It has no part in war, yet it's there. I'm hate conspiracy theorists, but I can't look past the convenience of this popping up and taking the public's attention.

[insideinfo]

This was what was done with Benghazi, I find it hard to believe the way he has used the media that they put up with this. But I guess it was a fox reporter make it okay.

[TheRealThing]

I've started to change my mind on this a but after seeing politics play such a big role. It has no part in war, yet it's there. I'm hate conspiracy theorists, but I can't look past the convenience of this popping up and taking the public's attention.

That's good to see Vundy. You know, most of us don't like what we see either but, it would be a bigger mistake to turn a blind eye to what actually goes on. In my mind there's a reason why the president has practically sent the Syrians a copy of the final approved battle plan. He wants them as far out of the way as possible. I don't think the overall impact will amount to spitting in the desert. We'll try our best to not kill anyone and after the fire works display is over, I guess the idea is that they will be properly shocked and awed. Sort of like when troops watch film of airstrikes to get an idea of our military might and the power of aircraft and ordinance. We saw how well that works during the Gulf War. We flew in there and knocked the crap out of the whole country so fast they couldn't even get their breath. Less than 10 years later Saddam was daring us to try it again, even brazenly invading Kuwait and thumbing his nose at the west.

The idea that we can properly scare these guys is born of the abject naivety from which they all suffer. They need to take the advice of senior military staff when it comes to this stuff.

[vundy33]

Well my reasons come mainly from how we look in the eyes of the Russians and Chinese, but I do feel for the Syrians.

I definitely think we could scare these people if we wanted. There is nothing like seeing the American military in action, and if the US wants you dead, you are going to die. I have no doubts about the fear our military can put into anyone on this earth. Assad may act tough in his recent interview, but if anyone knows the power of the US military to find and kill people it's him, he's watched us and allowed us to do it in Syria for years. We've totally gone about it wrong though IMO.

[TheRealThing]

Well my reasons come mainly from how we look in the eyes of the Russians and Chinese, but I do feel for the Syrians.

I definitely think we could scare these people if we wanted. There is nothing like seeing the American military in action, and if the US wants you dead, you are going to die. I have no doubts about the fear our military can put into anyone on this earth. Assad may act tough in his recent interview, but if anyone knows the power of the US military to find and kill people it's him, he's watched us and allowed us to do it in Syria for years. We've totally gone about it wrong though IMO.

And what would you think caused us to go about it all wrong? The president pulls the military's strings and always has. My opinions are based on experiences I lived through during two hitches in the Air Force with four years in foreign theaters and would just point out, that Viet Nam wasn't exactly tiddlywinks either and we were doing the president's bidding as well. At any rate, my observations with regard to how things went down in Iraq are accurate. Any rational man would be weak kneed in the face of America's military best however, we're not talking about rational men when we speak of mad men the likes of Saddam. His forces gave up when we got there but, he kept on till he got run into that spider hole. History is replete with examples of murderous megalomaniacs of his ilk, late examples are Stalin, Hitler, Hirohito, Mussolini, Kim Jong Il, Idi Amin and many others. Assad may well turn out to be just another Khadaffi who, after he got a smart bomb down his chimney, got an attitude adjustment, who knows?

Something the Russians and the Chinese both know, is that Obama is not about to do much more than talk, that's his best. He loves the sound of his own voice. And his predilection for surrounding himself with women doesn't help. All Sec of State Clinton did was globe trot and become the consummate authority on cerveza. Nor does it help that he makes foreign policy on the suggestions of folks like Valerie Jarrett.

One thing is certain no matter who you are, if you keep lighting the fuse, the bomb will explode. Maybe not this time or the next, but it will explode.

[Hoot Gibson]

I've started to change my mind on this a but after seeing politics play such a big role. It has no part in war, yet it's there. I'm hate conspiracy theorists, but I can't look past the convenience of this popping up and taking the public's attention.

I think that it is no coincidence that this "crisis" suddenly appeared. If Obama really wanted to do something substantial in Syria, then he would have linked Syrian chemical weapons to future Iranian nuclear weapons at every opportunity. He has not done that, which tells me that he would be happy for Congress to vote down his plan and blame the Republicans in the 2014 campaign.

Notice that when he blames Republicans for his foreign policy failures, he will have no problem linking Syria to Iranian nukes as he lies about Republicans being to blame for his administration's failure to slow down Iran's nuclear program.

Obama needed to divert the public's attention away from his many scandals, so now our attention is focused on his incredible shrinking foreign policy. I could have done a better job selling the attack on Syria, and I believe such an attack would be a mistake.

[Hoot Gibson]

Well my reasons come mainly from how we look in the eyes of the Russians and Chinese, but I do feel for the Syrians.

I definitely think we could scare these people if we wanted. There is nothing like seeing the American military in action, and if the US wants you dead, you are going to die. I have no doubts about the fear our military can put into anyone on this earth. Assad may act tough in his recent interview, but if anyone knows the power of the US military to find and kill people it's him, he's watched us and allowed us to do it in Syria for years. We've totally gone about it wrong though IMO.

I agree with you about the capabilities of our military, but toxic leadership can make a great team look like the Keystone Kops and leadership does not get more toxic than it is at the top of the Obama administration. Our military power is declining and will continue to decline until a pro-American president takes up residence in the White House.

[TheRealThing]

I agree with you about the capabilities of our military, but toxic leadership can make a great team look like the Keystone Kops and leadership does not get more toxic than it is at the top of the Obama administration. Our military power is declining and will continue to decline until a pro-American president takes up residence in the White House.

Enter President Putin. From here on it will be he who will dictates terms in this matter. Assad will turn over his stockpile of Chemical weapons of mass destruction and we will pull our horns back in.

I'm sure things could always get worse until mercifully, at long last the tenure for this clown-in-chief is over. But, it's hard to imagine a scenario that would demonstrate your point any better than the Syrian debacle. And yet, to me it is an entirely logical outcome, given the chain of events. Just hitting the high spots we've seen; the ramming through ObamaCare, the repeal of DADT, administration endorsement of Occupy Wall Street, Fast and Furious, the ill advised support of a manufactured and seemingly illegitimate Arab Spring, exploding dependence on government provided entitlements, premature troop withdrawal from Iraq and Afghanistan, attempt after attempt to neuter our second amendment rights to own and bear arms, Benghazi, IRS, NSA, Trayvon Martin, and now Syria. There are things more important than fulfillment of the social justice agenda, even though I believe he would not agree with that.

[vundy33]

The point of my statement TRT was really that we can kick ass, lol. Something I feel the nation lacking on, mainly due to the bloodiness of huge losses in big battles during these wars like the First and Second battle of Fallujah, where we had guys killing the toughest enemy we've fought in either war, the hardcore guys who wanted to kill Americans enough that they took on our soldiers and Marines face to face (that might not sound tough just saying it, but our infantrymen excel in that close fighting, the enemy knows it and was willing to die in every single building in that city), including taking on our tanks and fighting vehicles. That's ballsy considering so much of the Taliban turn and run from just our trucks with .50 cal machine guns or less. The same with battles in Sadr City, Mosul, Marjah and the other huge battle. That's the toughest enemy our nation has fought in these two wars. Of course, it was nothing when compared to Vietnam...when I read or watch a doc on that war, I can't really grasp how those guys, most younger than I am right now which is crazy to think about, got through that and still dominated the enemy while taking dozens and dozens of casualties in the matter of a minute.

It kills me that those warriors, from the infantryman knee-deep into the shat, the pilots getting lit up in the air, the special ops killers that were chin deep in it, to the support personnel who might have not have taken the huge casualties the typical grunts did but still worked their butts off in a jungle to enable us to come out of those battles on top most of the time...they don't get the credit they deserve. So many of our own people spit on them, shunned them, just through them out like trash. We are seeing the same thing with both of these wars, but especially Iraq.

I'm a little off-topic but given what day it is, and the fact that so many of the young guys with a future ahead of them who actually fought the damn war for the suits who declared it and lost their lives doing so, I think it needs to be said and honestly I have to get it off of my chest, lol.

[vundy33]

Do me a favor and read this and tell me truthfully if you have heard of it. No one's fault if they haven't of course, the point is the fact that this sgt and many, many others are "looked over" by the nation it seems because it was Iraq...like not thinking about the damn thing will cause it to magically go away like it never happened (a lot like Vietnam, but not nearly as bad). http://projects.militarytimes.com/citati...entid=3836

I've had the great opportunity to meet SSG Bellavia. You'd pass him on the street now and never picture that he was the guy that did all of that. Just in case anyone doesn't want to click and read a bit, I'll summarize here. This was Fallujah in 2004, the second battle in November. After 4 Blackwater (private military contractors) employees were attacked, in soft skin SUV's, while escorting a food company's vehicles through the city, killed, had their remains stomped on and hung by a bridge by citizens of Fallujah, we went in in the first battle. It was called back because of the severe ass-kicking our Marines and soldiers handed out in late April 04. The enemy our guys beat down was as hardcore as it gets...they even got high on multiple drugs, amphetimines or speed, which made them tough to kill and also made them not give a thought to fighting us face to face. They knew that our troops would be back, and they pretty much made hundreds of houses and building into fortresses fully stocked and barricaded with defendable positions...perfect for sitting back and waiting for us to kick in the door and then open up on our guys with machine guns. Essentially, so I don't drag this out much longer lol, SSG Bellavia and his squad at first prepared to clear the building. They stacked on te door and entered, and immediately got out up. Multiple soldiers were hit, and SSG Bellavia and his guys got out of there. He has said, in his book and in interviews, that he literally felt cowardly for being repelled and running out of the house. They called for a Bradley Fighting Vehicle to come down the street and put quite a few 25mm High Explosive rounds (imagine a .50 rounds, supersize that sucker and put some explosives in it and you can picture a 25mm round and the damage it can do) into the house. The enemy laughed at it pretty much and starting yelling at the squad, essentially telling our boys to bring it on. So he decided to pick up a machine gun, went in to the first floor area and emptied a couple hundred rounds into the enemy to get their heads down and or his guys move in. He then handed over the MG to the soldier he grabbed it from, grabbed and M16 and cleared the entire house. Killing 3 of these dudes before getting upstairs to one more. He saw him, put a few rounds into him but the insurgent kept his feet and went into a bedroom. SSG Bellavia followed, started choking the guy out before the dude fought back...keep in mind that there was another enemy on the roof, just a few stairs up. This fight was so fast and close up, one on one, that he had to grab his knife and end it. For those of you that know something about basic military tactics, you know fighting with a knife is about as last resort as it gets. After he finished with that one, the upstairs guy drops down from the roof right in front of him as SSG Bellavia stepped out onto the second story balcony. Luckily he was able to end the last enemy fighter quickly and avoid another hands on approach, then his reloaded and patched up squad came busting in. He cleared an entire fortified multi-level house by himself, including a knife kill. That is just absolutely mind-blowing. And what did they do after? They pillars back a bit just after to allow for an air strike, and then continued clearing more houses just like that one for the next 18 hours.

The point isn't to brag about how badass our guys are, or glorifying war or any of that nonsense. It's the fact that that kind of bravery has been what this country is about since we were just a few colonies! It literally represents everything we love about this nation. Not only in military matters, but everything. We are known for taking chances...from going up against and beating the strongest military on earth, to our move out west in the mid and late 1800's when the Americans moving across a continent didn't know if they would even survive the trip, much less the life after they got there. It can relate to the absolutely amazing acts of valor in the Civil War, and the nation's ability to continue on, not fall apart, in the terrible times ahead. As well as both world wars, where this kind of bravery was commonplace on both the Pacific and European fronts...including the tough times a few years before during the Great Depression. It represents American resolve during the Cold War, with multiple domestic and foreign problems sandwiched in that there is too many to mention. That brings us to today and the day that changed so many lives, including my own.

We told the enemy who flew aircraft into our towers that sure, they can knock them down and take our lives. But we will just build another tower, cope with the loss, and beat it. We have not only done that, but we kicked the horsedoo out of that same enemy. Yeah, we might not be as strong as we were pre-9/11. But the thing is, we are still here, we're still strong, we're still killing those who wish to take our lives, and most importantly, we are still a country with so many great people. The best of the best in literally every single category that can be imagined. This morning at a 9/11 memorial in NY I was lucky enough to finally get to attend, I saw widows, so many family members, kids who didn't even get to know their own mother or father as strong as I've ever seen them. It was an amazing thing to see, and it really can't be properly noticed on any other day really. We still have millions and millions of great people in this country that get up every morning, put in a hard day's work, and come home to their families. We still have thousands and thousands of troops that wake up and take the fight to the dipshits that want to see us all burn. We don't supress basic freedoms in the cruelest ways imaginable like our enemies do in communities all across the Muslim world. We don't murder dozens or hundreds of citizens just to kill one enemy like Al Qaeda, the Taliban and numerous other groups do all over the globe. And we sure as hell don't run when our enemies attack us like said groups do, hiding and striking their own people instead of choosing to actually fight the enemy that they say they hate so very much, which is us and our allies.

We are a great people and a great country, no matter the political or religious ideals we have. The great thing about us that we so often take for granted is that we can have such different ideals without fearing for our lives or businesses because of those beliefs. We not only can, we reserve the right to challenge any government official, at any level, who tries to supress those things and many others. Yes, we have contradictions and parts of our past we're not proud of, but what country doesn't? We have not only shown the ability to evolve as a society, we have shown that we can handle it. We've shown on numerous occasions, over multiple centuries, that we will die 100 times over for all of it.

On a day like this, when we remember one of the toughest events we've ever had to endure and those who are no longer with us because of the actions this attack caused, including Ambassador Chris Stevens and the 3 other Americans that lost their lives 1 year ago today, we have to also remember that we are not down and out. We may have some trouble at the moment, but we will kick it in the ass and carry on. I've been one to talk about our respect in the world diminishing, and it has a bit...but we carry on and not only survive, but prosper (with a side of ass-kicking thrown in). We have it made in this country that WE have helped build...no one built it for us, no one installed our government for us, and best of all, our beautiful ladies.

I not only think all that is well worth dying for, but it's something we should live for, and be proud of. Even though we have problems today, we have to work to get past those problems and excel. And obviously, we have many, many stories of bravery and courage in the face of steep odds like Staff Sgt David Bellavia's to draw from. We have so many of these amazing examples to follow in...the least we can do is learn and draw whatever we can from them.

Those who have died in all of our history for God, family and country, especially those since 9/11, did not die for nothing. I have to just laugh these days when someone says our people have died for nothing in these wars or anything else for that matter...usually those who say it are either so short-sighted that they can only see the here and now, or they have no idea what the hell they're talking about. We all have the power to make the world a better place, and even the little things go far...I think we should all do as much as we can to do so. Those actions, the things we take for granted, those are the things that change the world so much more than any amount of bombs or bullets ever has. In my opinion, that is how we should remember all the loved ones we have lost in these last 12 years of war.

[vundy33]

That's more than I've said on this day for a few years now, and it'll probably be a few more years before I feel the need to say it again, lol. Excuse all the typos, I'm on an iPhone an it sucks with the forum.

Also, I recommend clicking the link since my "summary" is likely longer than the citation. nicker:

I would've posted this in the 9/11 thread I assume is open in the General Discussions board, but I feel it's more appropriate here and those who I want to read, will.

Hope all of you remembered the events that make this date what it is. We promised we would never forget, so we can never forget which will be tougher to do as the years pass. It's the least any good American can do in my honest opinion, though. I hope none of you have had to deal with a loss relating to anything 9/11 related, because personally for me it seems to ache and make me angry so many months out of the year. Even certain things I see or smell or hear reminds me of my teo cousins and a couple close friends. And no matter how hard I tried to just forget and "move on", I can't...where those few have passed and family and friends move on, I stopped thinking about it it seems because I don't like to remember to myself, it's much better in a conversation...people move on and lose touch and you wake up one day and realize there is no one to talk about those memories of friends and family we've lost with. Just how the world works I guess. But, if you have lost someone close, I hope you have had an alright day. Just don't forget that no matter how many people seem to move on and forget to remember around this time of the year and all year really, there are still many of us that will always remember...one of my old commanders said it best, I think..'how could we forget the best?'

[Hoot Gibson]

Do me a favor and read this and tell me truthfully if you have heard of it. No one's fault if they haven't of course, the point is the fact that this sgt and many, many others are "looked over" by the nation it seems because it was Iraq...like not thinking about the damn thing will cause it to magically go away like it never happened (a lot like Vietnam, but not nearly as bad). http://projects.militarytimes.com/citati...entid=3836

I've had the great opportunity to meet SSG Bellavia. You'd pass him on the street now and never picture that he was the guy that did all of that. Just in case anyone doesn't want to click and read a bit, I'll summarize here. This was Fallujah in 2004, the second battle in November. After 4 Blackwater (private military contractors) employees were attacked, in soft skin SUV's, while escorting a food company's vehicles through the city, killed, had their remains stomped on and hung by a bridge by citizens of Fallujah, we went in in the first battle. It was called back because of the severe ass-kicking our Marines and soldiers handed out in late April 04. The enemy our guys beat down was as hardcore as it gets...they even got high on multiple drugs, amphetimines or speed, which made them tough to kill and also made them not give a thought to fighting us face to face. They knew that our troops would be back, and they pretty much made hundreds of houses and building into fortresses fully stocked and barricaded with defendable positions...perfect for sitting back and waiting for us to kick in the door and then open up on our guys with machine guns. Essentially, so I don't drag this out much longer lol, SSG Bellavia and his squad at first prepared to clear the building. They stacked on te door and entered, and immediately got out up. Multiple soldiers were hit, and SSG Bellavia and his guys got out of there. He has said, in his book and in interviews, that he literally felt cowardly for being repelled and running out of the house. They called for a Bradley Fighting Vehicle to come down the street and put quite a few 25mm High Explosive rounds (imagine a .50 rounds, supersize that sucker and put some explosives in it and you can picture a 25mm round and the damage it can do) into the house. The enemy laughed at it pretty much and starting yelling at the squad, essentially telling our boys to bring it on. So he decided to pick up a machine gun, went in to the first floor area and emptied a couple hundred rounds into the enemy to get their heads down and or his guys move in. He then handed over the MG to the soldier he grabbed it from, grabbed and M16 and cleared the entire house. Killing 3 of these dudes before getting upstairs to one more. He saw him, put a few rounds into him but the insurgent kept his feet and went into a bedroom. SSG Bellavia followed, started choking the guy out before the dude fought back...keep in mind that there was another enemy on the roof, just a few stairs up. This fight was so fast and close up, one on one, that he had to grab his knife and end it. For those of you that know something about basic military tactics, you know fighting with a knife is about as last resort as it gets. After he finished with that one, the upstairs guy drops down from the roof right in front of him as SSG Bellavia stepped out onto the second story balcony. Luckily he was able to end the last enemy fighter quickly and avoid another hands on approach, then his reloaded and patched up squad came busting in. He cleared an entire fortified multi-level house by himself, including a knife kill. That is just absolutely mind-blowing. And what did they do after? They pillars back a bit just after to allow for an air strike, and then continued clearing more houses just like that one for the next 18 hours.

<SNIP>

We are a great people and a great country, no matter the political or religious ideals we have. The great thing about us that we so often take for granted is that we can have such different ideals without fearing for our lives or businesses because of those beliefs. We not only can, we reserve the right to challenge any government official, at any level, who tries to supress those things and many others. Yes, we have contradictions and parts of our past we're not proud of, but what country doesn't? We have not only shown the ability to evolve as a society, we have shown that we can handle it. We've shown on numerous occasions, over multiple centuries, that we will die 100 times over for all of it.

On a day like this, when we remember one of the toughest events we've ever had to endure and those who are no longer with us because of the actions this attack caused, including Ambassador Chris Stevens and the 3 other Americans that lost their lives 1 year ago today, we have to also remember that we are not down and out. We may have some trouble at the moment, but we will kick it in the ass and carry on. I've been one to talk about our respect in the world diminishing, and it has a bit...but we carry on and not only survive, but prosper (with a side of ass-kicking thrown in). We have it made in this country that WE have helped build...no one built it for us, no one installed our government for us, and best of all, our beautiful ladies.

I not only think all that is well worth dying for, but it's something we should live for, and be proud of. Even though we have problems today, we have to work to get past those problems and excel. And obviously, we have many, many stories of bravery and courage in the face of steep odds like Staff Sgt David Bellavia's to draw from. We have so many of these amazing examples to follow in...the least we can do is learn and draw whatever we can from them.

Those who have died in all of our history for God, family and country, especially those since 9/11, did not die for nothing. I have to just laugh these days when someone says our people have died for nothing in these wars or anything else for that matter...usually those who say it are either so short-sighted that they can only see the here and now, or they have no idea what the hell they're talking about. We all have the power to make the world a better place, and even the little things go far...I think we should all do as much as we can to do so. Those actions, the things we take for granted, those are the things that change the world so much more than any amount of bombs or bullets ever has. In my opinion, that is how we should remember all the loved ones we have lost in these last 12 years of war.

Very well said, vundy. I hope that you did not interpret my post as saying that anybody died for nothing.

The brave men and women who served in Iraq, Afghanistan, and every other war that this country did their jobs better than any military force that preceded them. The problem lies with civilian politicians and a few political hacks in the Pentagon who either have no understanding or no appreciation of the magnitude of the accomplishments of our military forces. Too many lives and limbs were sacrificed in Iraq and Afghanistan to risk having to send more troops to do the same job a few years from now.

As far as I know, the U.S. has left Iraq and will be leaving Afghanistan without even securing any assurances that either country will provide support to our forces if it becomes necessary to go to war with Iran.

Obama is the worst president in U.S. history. It was bad enough when about 40 to 50 percent of Americans realized that fact. Now, our friends and allies around the world are seeing it for themselves as Putin ties Obama into illogical diplomatic knots. I fear that our military will once again pay the price for weak leadership in the White House.

[Hoot Gibson]

That's more than I've said on this day for a few years now, and it'll probably be a few more years before I feel the need to say it again, lol. Excuse all the typos, I'm on an iPhone an it sucks with the forum.

Also, I recommend clicking the link since my "summary" is likely longer than the citation. nicker:

I would've posted this in the 9/11 thread I assume is open in the General Discussions board, but I feel it's more appropriate here and those who I want to read, will.

Hope all of you remembered the events that make this date what it is. We promised we would never forget, so we can never forget which will be tougher to do as the years pass. It's the least any good American can do in my honest opinion, though. I hope none of you have had to deal with a loss relating to anything 9/11 related, because personally for me it seems to ache and make me angry so many months out of the year. Even certain things I see or smell or hear reminds me of my teo cousins and a couple close friends. And no matter how hard I tried to just forget and "move on", I can't...where those few have passed and family and friends move on, I stopped thinking about it it seems because I don't like to remember to myself, it's much better in a conversation...people move on and lose touch and you wake up one day and realize there is no one to talk about those memories of friends and family we've lost with. Just how the world works I guess. But, if you have lost someone close, I hope you have had an alright day. Just don't forget that no matter how many people seem to move on and forget to remember around this time of the year and all year really, there are still many of us that will always remember...one of my old commanders said it best, I think..'how could we forget the best?'

It is amazing that you typed all of that on an iPhone. I had to insert a <SNIP> into the quote so that my response would fit. :biggrin:

[vundy33]

Of course not Hoot, haha. You know I know better! I was just speaking in general. I went pretty off-topic and it might've been a bit tough to read ha, but it just came out really. This isn't the thread for it but many more people read the Gen Discussion, I feel more comfortable talking to people I think I know a little in here.

Also, just want to say that SSG David Bellavia isn't one of those guys that tries to cash in on that type of stuff. The main reason he wrote the book was to help keep awareness up on the great actions of our guys in my generation that have gone above and beyond, and he is still doing it today and trying to help people. I could cite so many more of just that battle, could fill a book about these guys in both wars, and could fill a library discussing them in any war Americans have ever been a part of. These are the guys that I think should be remembered and documentaries made about on National Geographic rather than 300 docs on SEAL Team 6 and the Bin Laden raid. Those guys are these guys, they are cut from the same cloth. But so much attention given to one mission, albeit a huge and very important one, seems a bit wrong to me. I feel that if I don't at least try to keep people aware of these guys they'll be forgotten by most, and that's just not happening while I am breathing. You probably have noticed I avoid calling them heroes, even though they literally epitomize the word. It fits them as well as the term "grunt" does. But I know my buddy, who I'm about to talk a little about, would laugh at me and make me push for calling him that, hahaha. I think nearly all of them would.

I just want to mention two more people, one a great friend of mine. I'll start out with my buddy Justin, and if you click the link and look at his photo you'd be surprised. But that dude was hard, and I personally watched him do things that would earn any officer the Silver Star. He was born to be clutch and do things others didn't have the mental strength to do, took care of his soldiers and died doing so. Wasn't there when he passed, but God knows I wish i had been. http://freedomremembered.com/index.php/s...-gallegos/

Also want to mention this Marine and link his story. Marine SGT Rafael Peralta was clearing houses during the Second Battle of Fallujah when he and his Marines entered a house and he was immediately hit with multiple rounds and wounded pretty badly. He moved out of the doorway, the "fatal funnel" doorway every vet knows about, to let his guys move on clearing the house. But they immediately had a grenade thrown into the little room they were in, but they were expecting this since it was a tactic both sides used. He was still very much conscious, and when he realized his guys couldn't get out of the room in time, he grabbed the grenade and put it under his body armor. He didn't even have to go on the clearing missions but chose to go anyway. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafael_Peralta

Just a couple to remember I guess. Apologies to anyone thinks I derailed the thread...it won't be easy to be put back on course though, lol. Have to mention them.

[TheRealThing]

The point of my statement TRT was really that we can kick ass, lol. Something I feel the nation lacking on, mainly due to the bloodiness of huge losses in big battles during these wars like the First and Second battle of Fallujah, where we had guys killing the toughest enemy we've fought in either war, the hardcore guys who wanted to kill Americans enough that they took on our soldiers and Marines face to face (that might not sound tough just saying it, but our infantrymen excel in that close fighting, the enemy knows it and was willing to die in every single building in that city), including taking on our tanks and fighting vehicles. That's ballsy considering so much of the Taliban turn and run from just our trucks with .50 cal machine guns or less. The same with battles in Sadr City, Mosul, Marjah and the other huge battle. That's the toughest enemy our nation has fought in these two wars. Of course, it was nothing when compared to Vietnam...when I read or watch a doc on that war, I can't really grasp how those guys, most younger than I am right now which is crazy to think about, got through that and still dominated the enemy while taking dozens and dozens of casualties in the matter of a minute.

It kills me that those warriors, from the infantryman knee-deep into the shat, the pilots getting lit up in the air, the special ops killers that were chin deep in it, to the support personnel who might have not have taken the huge casualties the typical grunts did but still worked their butts off in a jungle to enable us to come out of those battles on top most of the time...they don't get the credit they deserve. So many of our own people spit on them, shunned them, just through them out like trash. We are seeing the same thing with both of these wars, but especially Iraq.

I'm a little off-topic but given what day it is, and the fact that so many of the young guys with a future ahead of them who actually fought the damn war for the suits who declared it and lost their lives doing so, I think it needs to be said and honestly I have to get it off of my chest, lol.

Oh they were ballsy in Fallujah alright. And many don't hesitate to face death in close quarters combat. They can't fight worth a spit on the battlefield though and that's why we ran through them like a dose of salts in the Iraq War. Personally, standing off and blasting the area they're in to dust is how I think it should be done.

One of the greatest travesties of all time is the way GI's are treated once they get home. No telling what body parts have blown off, and government help is sadly lacking. Meanwhile, bureaucrats would see this nation in ruins before they would deny the do-less their food, housing, free utilities, free phones, and free health care.

BTW, for the sake of conversation. Last year's version of the sequester only involved 85 billion dollars. This year's version is over 100 billion. And we're going to light up the skyline for Assad, being ever so careful so as not to actually hit anything, for a cost of something north of 200 million for starters? You know, if it's time to go to war then we should definitely let it roar. But, we don't even know what the heck we're doing this for outside of a "shot across the bow."

[vundy33]

I can go ahead and actually get back on topic for a bit actually, lol. I was thinking about this a bit last night.

Has it crossed anyone else mind that having an active threat of military action on a process so close with Russia could end in a bad day? I was thinking, and there's not a good chance of it happening obviously but still too much of a chance in my opinion...we have a threat of military action if this new "plan" isn't taken seriously or the Russians and Syrians try to stall. What if Russia decides 'hey United States, we are going to spit in your face and directly do what you advised us we better not do...whatcha gonna do about it, Yankee?' Just imagine weasel Putin saying that in his Russian accent, lol.

Anyway, what would we do? I think that leaves too much of a chance for error or a mistake. Us striking Syria in a short strike like our leaders say they'll do, and Russia issues a direct military threat back? Or even gives it's own "shot over the bow"? I was surprise that I haven't heard ANYONE on any news channel (Fox and CNN are the networks I watched yesterday).

I know a mistake that could lead to escalation isn't likely because our military would try their best to prevent it, but the chance is there. And I do not trust Russia, especially Putin...

[vundy33]

Oh they were ballsy in Fallujah alright. And many don't hesitate to face death in close quarters combat. They can't fight worth a spit on the battlefield though and that's why we ran through them like a dose of salts in the Iraq War. Personally, standing off and blasting the area they're in to dust is how I think it should be done.

One of the greatest travesties of all time is the way GI's are treated once they get home. No telling what body parts have blown off, and government help is sadly lacking. Meanwhile, bureaucrats would see this nation in ruins before they would deny the do-less their food, housing, free utilities, free phones, and free health care.

BTW, for the sake of conversation. Last year's version of the sequester only involved 85 billion dollars. This year's version is over 100 billion. And we're going to light up the skyline for Assad, being ever so careful so as not to actually hit anything, for a cost of something north of 200 million for starters? You know, if it's time to go to war then we should definitely let it roar. But, we don't even know what the heck we're doing this for outside of a "shot across the bow."

We definitely agree on all you said TRT. That is something I have thought a lot about as well, the cost. But, I don't look at it as bad as I think I would if I had never been in the machine myself. Since I've seen so much waste firsthand, ad have read about the costs it takes to send our ships all over the world, especially this area of the world where we always bring forces ready to fight which gives us the capability to defend US interests literally anywhere on earth, I am a bit softer when it comes to the cost of our ordnance, which is insanely expensive but also insanely effective.

Man it's a messed up situation. I truly hope that this latest proposal works. It would achieve the purpose of getting rid of a stockpile of CW we have worried about for years, and it keeps us from having to spend the extra cash to replace that ordnance, launch it, the innocent civilian lives we could disrupt or end, ect.


But my confidence isn't high. I will always have more confidence in our government over ANYONE in Russia, but honestly it's not by much.

[TheRealThing]

I can go ahead and actually get back on topic for a bit actually, lol. I was thinking about this a bit last night.

Has it crossed anyone else mind that having an active threat of military action on a process so close with Russia could end in a bad day? I was thinking, and there's not a good chance of it happening obviously but still too much of a chance in my opinion...we have a threat of military action if this new "plan" isn't taken seriously or the Russians and Syrians try to stall. What if Russia decides 'hey United States, we are going to spit in your face and directly do what you advised us we better not do...whatcha gonna do about it, Yankee?' Just imagine weasel Putin saying that in his Russian accent, lol.

Anyway, what would we do? I think that leaves too much of a chance for error or a mistake. Us striking Syria in a short strike like our leaders say they'll do, and Russia issues a direct military threat back? Or even gives it's own "shot over the bow"? I was surprise that I haven't heard ANYONE on any news channel (Fox and CNN are the networks I watched yesterday).

I know a mistake that could lead to escalation isn't likely because our military would try their best to prevent it, but the chance is there. And I do not trust Russia, especially Putin...

IDK, if I was going to test the resolve of America, I'd want to do it while there was a president in charge that hides behind women. Remember a couple days ago when Putin openly called John Kerry a liar? Wasn't that connected to Kerry's assertion that Assad has a huge stockpile of CW's?

So now from Putin's perspective, we're all over our righteous indignation about Assad possessing chemical weapons, to the point where we're just going to wink at our own indiscretions and advance the world's focus on turning over those CW's to Russia even though Putin just said those CW's didn't exist only a few days ago? :please:

[Harry Rex Vonner]

We almost have to vote for Mitch to keep her out, and this is almost a shame.

I would vote for a pile of cow manure over Little Lundergan. Of course, the manure would be far more qualified.

[Mitch Rapp]

Notice how news from Syria just kind of evaporated? Our government decided to aid the Al Qaeda backed rebels against the Russian backed government and we are hearing very little about what seemed to be a monumentally important issue only a few weeks ago. Did we win? Did we lose? I am guessing that this is another little Obama adventure that went south, or else the media would be reporting on it to divert attention away from all of his other failures.

[TheRealThing]

Notice how news from Syria just kind of evaporated? Our government decided to aid the Al Qaeda backed rebels against the Russian backed government and we are hearing very little about what seemed to be a monumentally important issue only a few weeks ago. Did we win? Did we lose? I am guessing that this is another little Obama adventure that went south, or else the media would be reporting on it to divert attention away from all of his other failures.

Yeah I sure did notice alright, that and every thing else that is in someway harmful to the image of donkeys. It was preposterous to base Middle Eastern foreign policy on our own inbred notions of civil rights and social justice in the first place. The fact that the Arab World disagrees in toto, with the insanity which has become the accepted moral standard in the US of late, is undeniable. And yet, such is the delusion of the liberal mindset. To them, they know what is right for everybody and they would be very comfortable forcing their ideas on the world if they could. Generally speaking, we might as well have nuked the fertile crescent. Maybe you could explain what we've been doing over there for the past five years but, as for me only one word comes to mind, destabilization. I mean, I understand that the leaders who were deposed during that time frame were a bunch of thugs. Heck, what leader over there isn't? The idea was to help keep people in power who were willing to work with us. All our 'peach' of a Secretary of State did, was to sit on the sidelines and cheer on the carnage like it was a last man standing, hand grenade throwing contest or something.

The elder statesmen of America's glorious not so distant past, have all given way to federal amateur hour. Seriously, I wouldn't be surprised if Jay Carney was succeeded by William Hung.

The reason that you're not going to see the media report on the weightier matters of world events is because all they care about is human rights, racial tolerance and financial equality for all. Such are the manifestations of the social justice agenda with legs. War, pestilence and famine are not something we can just arbitrarily remand to the past. In the liberal mind, all one has to do is 'legislate' out the bad stuff and 'legislate' in the good stuff. As if just saying something makes it true. LOL, we've got a saying in the trades about that kind of thing. It's called talking something into being, or blowing it in, depending on the venue. :biggrin: Bottom line is liberals are incredibly naïve and we are presently up to our eyeballs with them.

There is one cure, vote them out. 2014

[TheRealThing]

And what would you think caused us to go about it all wrong? The president pulls the military's strings and always has. ]-snip-[Something the Russians and the Chinese both know, is that Obama is not about to do much more than talk, that's his best. He loves the sound of his own voice. And his predilection for surrounding himself with women doesn't help. All Sec of State Clinton did was globe trot and become the consummate authority on cerveza. Nor does it help that he makes foreign policy on the suggestions of folks like Valerie Jarrett.
One thing is certain no matter who you are, if you keep lighting the fuse, the bomb will explode. Maybe not this time or the next, but it will explode.

IDK, if I was going to test the resolve of America, I'd want to do it while there was a president in charge that hides behind women. Remember a couple days ago when Putin openly called John Kerry a liar? Wasn't that connected to Kerry's assertion that Assad has a huge stockpile of CW's? ]-snip-[:

My apologies for quoting myself but, I couldn't resist pointing out how obvious and predictable the outcome we were dealing with actually was, with regard to Putin's invasion of the Crimean Peninsula. One, (America) can not go around kissing up to his potential enemies, while turning on the friends (like Poland) with whom he has signed treaties and expect anybody, friend or foe, to take him serious. I mean, anybody could have predicted the present cascading scenario of world affairs. FTR, I was wrong about Assad, he seems to be very reluctant to follow through with his promise to turn over his CW's. Added to that is the fact that watchful eyes in Iran and North Korea are wide open right now.

Sec of State JOHN KERRY (Paraphrased)--- "Countries don't invade places like Crimea in 2014."