[Harry Rex Vonner]

Obama, Holder, and most of the black and liberal white leaders seem to want a "national conversation on race". What is meant by a "national conversation on race"?

Would such a conversation honestly address the fact that nearly three-fourths of all black babies are born to unmarried black women?

Would such a conversation honestly address the fact that, much because of the above, an enormously disproportionate amount of welfare payments goes to blacks?

Would such a conversation honestly address the fact that blacks seriously and materially trail whites and other minorities in educational achievement and employable skills?

Would such a conversation honestly address the fact that a enormously disproportionate number of blacks commit crimes and populate our prisons?

Would such a conversation honestly address the fact that most black homes are without a male in the household?

Would such a conversation honestly address the fact that the unemployment rate among blacks, particularly young blacks, is grossly disproportionate from the rest of the population?

Would such a conversation honestly address the fact that most crimes committed against blacks, certainly including murder, are committed by other blacks?

Or, instead, would such a conversation merely be used to blame whites for all the problems of the blacks?

I think the answer is obvious. So why waste the effort?

[Harry Rex Vonner]

Well, I just watched a panel of black leaders on CNN. One actually pointed out some of the items I have listed above. She was immediately shouted down by the others. Then, of course, the rhetoric digressed to the usual excuses for which all, except the one woman, sang in one voice. That united voice, of course, included the "hostess" of the discussion, Candy Crowley.

So, again I say, why waste the effort?

[TheRealThing]

Well, I just watched a panel of black leaders on CNN. One actually pointed out some of the items I have listed above. She was immediately shouted down by the others. Then, of course, the rhetoric digressed to the usual excuses for which all, except the one woman, sang in one voice. That united voice, of course, included the "hostess" of the discussion, Candy Crowley.

So, again I say, why waste the effort?

I gotta say, I have listened to more than a few black folks speak about the issues lately. Any one of whom we, had they been elected president rather than Barry, would have been truly blessed with. I mean, the question begs to be asked. How could a guy who willingly espouses the incredibly bad judgment of identifying on a personal, almost nostalgic level, with drug usage. Whether that be in college or whatever walk of life, if nothing else be considered a good role model for our kids? I can hear it now. "Junior, never use drugs, they will destroy your life" and the response --- "Mom, get real, even the president used drugs and look where he is!"

[Hoot Gibson]

Well, I just watched a panel of black leaders on CNN. One actually pointed out some of the items I have listed above. She was immediately shouted down by the others. Then, of course, the rhetoric digressed to the usual excuses for which all, except the one woman, sang in one voice. That united voice, of course, included the "hostess" of the discussion, Candy Crowley.

So, again I say, why waste the effort?

This proposal to have a national conversation is not a wasted effort, Harry. Far from it. All these "national discussions" of the Trayvon Martin case, Stand Your Ground laws, and now race in America have a very real, singular purpose. Obama, his Justice Department, and the rest of his administration are simply feeding a compliant media and Obama's ignorant core supporters issues to keep them too angry and busy to discuss the many, very serious scandals that Obama would otherwise be under fire to defend on a daily basis.

This is the same tactic that Obama employed in dealing with the Fast and Furious and Benghazi scandals. Thanks to incompetence among "prominent" Republicans, these kind of tactics have worked like a charm and now form the cornerstone of the administration's scandal management strategy.

The longer Obama can postpone discussions of real scandals with his serial manufactured crises, the less chance he has of mass defections among his supporters. Obama does not care whether scores of innocent people die because of his blatant and very cynical effort to drive another wedge between black and white Americans, as long as liberal Democrats achieve their objectives of distracting attention and diverting blame for the real scandals away from themselves.

Obama's behavior reminds me of Dean Smith's North Carolina basketball teams before the shot clock changed the game. Obama is running a four-corner offense in the third quarter with a three point lead and it looks like Republicans are prepared sit on their deficit and settle for a three-point loss.

Obama is running a perpetual campaign because he is good campaigner but a very bad president. His success is demoralizing Republican supporters, IMO.

[Harry Rex Vonner]

Excellent analogy in your fourth paragraph, Hoot Gibson. and, just like with Obama, the media had its collective heads stuck up Smith's rear end. As you will remember, Rupp was the bad racist and Smith was Mr. Clean although the reality was quite different.

[Stardust]

[Image: http://cdn.ebaumsworld.com/picture/KRAYZ...ITEY-2.png]

[TheRealThing]

I think it's a good idea to have a new conversation on race. We need to clear up quite a few things if you ask me. First of which, would be to decide if we're talking about guaranteeing equality for all or, if we are talking about establishing advantages for only certain people associated with minorities?

Are we going to enforce the law equally for everybody, or are we going to continue to allow minorities to tear up jack around the country in the form of property damage and felonious assault anytime they don't get their way?

Are we going to reward excellence or are we going to impose diversity standards on everything from college enrollment to how many percent of government workers and public school teachers are gay?

Is this the land of the free, or the land of the privileged few?

Now, if it turns out we really do care about the "common good" and not this misguided modern day version of "Robin Hood", we should get on with rewarding responsible behavior and pull the plug on bad, self serving behavior.

[Harry Rex Vonner]

TheRealThing makes good sense. Unfortunately, his positions would never be accepted by the present administration or the media. He talks truth when Obama, Holder, and the media want political correctness.

[SKINNYPIG]

For the first time in a while I was able to listen to Rush far a bit today. He made some interesting comments that I will paraphrase. Several other countries and many different races of humans have fought TO KEEP slaves (of all colors) for thousands of years. Even Indian tribes slayed each other to keep their slaves.

The Untied States of America lost thousands upon thousands of (white) citizens in a war that ended up freeing slaves. White Americans have probably sacrificed more than any other group on earth to end slavery and though it's taken some time, as a country we have come a million miles. Yet we are the ones always taking the hits.

How soon Sharpton, Jackson and their ilk forget.

[TheRealThing]

For the first time in a while I was able to listen to Rush far a bit today. He made some interesting comments that I will paraphrase. Several other countries and many different races of humans have fought TO KEEP slaves (of all colors) for thousands of years. Even Indian tribes slayed each other to keep their slaves.

The Untied States of America lost thousands upon thousands of (white) citizens in a war that ended up freeing slaves. White Americans have probably sacrificed more than any other group on earth to end slavery and though it's taken some time, as a country we have come a million miles. Yet we are the ones always taking the hits.

How soon Sharpton, Jackson and their ilk forget.

So true. And here's the short of it. I find myself feeling genuine respect and even affection for people of color that believe in American core values and delight in the pursuit of happiness. It's out there and it is achievable but, it is not to be found at the welfare office. Truly, all men are created equal. It's the system does all the sorting and stacking, not the biases of white men. That is the message of former Florida Republican Congressman and Col Alan West, Dr Ben Carson, Star Parker, Michael Meyers and many others would deliver.

Those of any race who play the victim will never be happy, and they'll never know the satisfaction of going out there and earning success. Man wasn't meant to be herded by kindly liberal husbandmen, who just happen to desperately need their votes. He is meant to go conquer his world to the extent his talents and abilities would allow. The liberal media continue to mislead them, providing a forum and a platform (and backup) for the Al Sharptons of the world, from which to poison the attitudes and souls of the very people they claim to care so much about. IMO, there would be much profit to be had, if one could buy Sharpton for what he's really worth and sell him for what he thinks he's worth.

The poison men like him spew will very likely cause society to boil over one day, in a manner that will bring much shame and pain to this land, thanks to little men with huge egos in positions of power. Who somehow, manage to publically and continually stir up national insurrection with impunity. How is it that Al Sharpton and others who fan the flames of bigotry even to the point of turning it into a profession, for which they are paid handsomely BTW, get away with blaming other people for their own misdeeds? I don't get it. Can folks actually not understand it is people like him that are the hate mongers?

No, my contempt is not for my fellow man, even though I think all men owe society, themselves and their families, a reasonable effort on their own part to earn a living. My contempt is for a system of government that extorts money from the people who do work, in an elaborate scheme to just give it to those who won't work. That system for the most part is color blind by the way. Many millions of folks of all racial backgrounds are cared for in this land, including terrorists such as the Tsarnaev brothers.

According to the US Constitution, nobody is special in this country. And yet, when one stops to consider for one moment, we have a political party that governs exclusively from that very perspective. Democrats are in fact the party of special interests. They have done more to divide this country than any enemy from without has ever managed to accomplish in time of war, or cold war. They will never get another vote from my household unless they abandon the dark side again. The democratic propaganda machine works so efficiently, I actually hear working folks complaining about republican presidents that want to lower their taxes. Bizarro World is here.

[Harry Rex Vonner]

The US Constitution provides for the right to pursue happiness. There is no right to happiness.

It also provides for equal opportunity but certainly not equal outcome.

Obama, Holder, Sharpton, Jackson, the Congressional Black Caucus, MSNBC, and the others in the race baiting industry expect equality of outcome. That is called socialism.

[RunItUpTheGut]

Until we cut out benefits, there will always be seperation.

[Harry Rex Vonner]

Is it possible to have equality of outcome between the attractive and the non attractive?

Is it possible to have equality of outcome between the intelligent and the non intelligent?

Is it possible to have equality of outcome between the athletic and the non athletic?

Is it possible to have equality of outcome between those born into wealth and those born into poverty?

Is it possible to have equality of outcome between the physically strong and the physically weak?

Is it possible to have equality of outcome between the majority and the minority?

If there is true freedom, can there realistically be equality of outcome? If there is true freedom, can there realistically be equality of opportunity?

In a free society, I believe the answer to all these questions is a clearly and realistically "no". But, the liberals will tell us we should strive for this equality. It is not possible. The human element, if allowed to be free, guarantees that there will not be equality of outcome.

[SKINNYPIG]

Is it possible to have equality of outcome between the attractive and the non attractive?

Is it possible to have equality of outcome between the intelligent and the non intelligent?

Is it possible to have equality of outcome between the athletic and the non athletic?

Is it possible to have equality of outcome between those born into wealth and those born into poverty?

Is it possible to have equality of outcome between the physically strong and the physically weak?

Is it possible to have equality of outcome between the majority and the minority?

If there is true freedom, can there realistically be equality of outcome? If there is true freedom, can there realistically be equality of opportunity?

In a free society, I believe the answer to all these questions is a clearly and realistically "no". But, the liberals will tell us we should strive for this equality. It is not possible. The human element, if allowed to be free, guarantees that there will not be equality of outcome.

What you say is real and true. I just cannot figure out why so many Americans don't understand. It must be that they simply don't want to.

[Harry Rex Vonner]

What you say is real and true. I just cannot figure out why so many Americans don't understand. It must be that they simply don't want to.

I believe that the liberals have succeeded in making the national debate between political correctness and truth. Political correctness is, most always, not the truth. However, those who live by the truth are shouted down, ridiculed, and called bigots merely for telling the truth.

For example, regardless of what MSNBC and HLN say, Rachel Jeantel is not intelligent. It is politically correct, of course, to say that she is intelligent. However, it is obviously not true.

The truth is what I posted in the first post of this thread. But, it is not in accordance with the fantasy world of the politically correct so it cannot be given any legitimacy. Only truth can defeat the liberals but, for now, truth takes a back seat to the lie of political correctness.

[nky]

By the way Affirmative Housing coming soon to a neighborhood near you

HUD to detail the racial diversity of every neighborhood in America as part of proposed new 'fair housing' rule

• Meant to bring the Fair Housing Act, passed in 1968, into the 21st century
  
• Will help residents, planners and investors target opportunities for growth, advancement and investment
  

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...z2ZtKskQkk
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

[RunItUpTheGut]

^
In other words, raise the rates for whites in small towns like ours, and make it cheapers for foreigners and blacks to get housing?

Sounds about right.

[TheRealThing]

^Possibly now the steely missiles of reality will finally become too menacing for the la-la's to ignore. When one's environment becomes regulated, the oppression of that regulation becomes stifling, ask any survivor of communist Russia. The rules are coming and the freedom we all grew up with is in danger of being reduced to fond memories for those who can still remember.

We are supposed to be a self governed nation. Instead we must now choose between two destinies, that of the democratic vision of deciding who your neighbor will be, every facet of life being metered, regulated and dispensed by the federal government. Or, the republican vision, which is to remain free and hold the federal government to be responsible to the people. An equal people.

Our power to make choices is almost gone. If we don't get this thing turned around, regular Joes are going to find themselves facing jail time for non-compliance to the tolerance rules that are coming. Ready for your federal government to aggressively regulate you at the social level? It's coming.

The people's pantry, full of seemingly inexhaustible freebies doled out to the lazy and listless, now features many shelves that are bare. It will all come to an end soon enough. Last call for sanity and responsible life styles is the mid-terms of 2014.

[crazytaxidriver]

^Possibly now the steely missiles of reality will finally become too menacing for the la-la's to ignore. When one's environment becomes regulated, the oppression of that regulation becomes stifling, ask any survivor of communist Russia. The rules are coming and the freedom we all grew up with is in danger of being reduced to fond memories for those who can still remember.

We are supposed to be a self governed nation. Instead we must now choose between two destinies, that of the democratic vision of deciding who your neighbor will be, every facet of life being metered, regulated and dispensed by the federal government. Or, the republican vision, which is to remain free and hold the federal government to be responsible to the people. An equal people.

Our power to make choices is almost gone. If we don't get this thing turned around, regular Joes are going to find themselves facing jail time for non-compliance to the tolerance rules that are coming. Ready for your federal government to aggressively regulate you at the social level? It's coming.

The people's pantry, full of seemingly inexhaustible freebies doled out to the lazy and listless, now features many shelves that are bare. It will all come to an end soon enough. Last call for sanity and responsible life styles is the mid-terms of 2014.

I'm pretty sure this is predicted in that book which we must not speak of. Next comes something we must wear in order to show compliance.

[TheRealThing]

I'm pretty sure this is predicted in that book which we must not speak of. Next comes something we must wear in order to show compliance.

Right you are, and something very much like the NSA database, or some kind of hybrid thereof, will be the tool Antichrist will use to locate every last holdout.

[Harry Rex Vonner]

I just saw on the Drudge Report website a picture of Barry holding a baseball bat. He would look more comfortable holding a Barbie doll. But, the bat is red so maybe it is a Barbie bat.

[TheRealThing]

I believe that the liberals have succeeded in making the national debate between political correctness and truth. Political correctness is, most always, not the truth. However, those who live by the truth are shouted down, ridiculed, and called bigots merely for telling the truth.

For example, regardless of what MSNBC and HLN say, Rachel Jeantel is not intelligent. It is politically correct, of course, to say that she is intelligent. However, it is obviously not true.

The truth is what I posted in the first post of this thread. But, it is not in accordance with the fantasy world of the politically correct so it cannot be given any legitimacy. Only truth can defeat the liberals but, for now, truth takes a back seat to the lie of political correctness.

Political correctness in our time is nothing more than means to an end, or a complete high jacking of the truth. In real truth, the 13th Amendment abolishing slavery in the United States was ratified by the US Congress with 100% Republican votes for and only 22% of the Democratic membership votes in favor. The 14th Amendment to the Constitution granting citizenship to all those born within the borders of the United States (including former salves and their children) was ratified with Republicans voting 100% for the measure, while Democrats voted 100% against. The 15th Amendment which prohibited restrictions of voting rights “on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.” was ratified with 100% Republican votes for and 100% Democrat votes against.

Democrats have been very busy towards the end of the 20th century and the beginning of this century remaking their image. And they have managed to do a masterful job of public relations. As it stands at present, if one chooses to believe the DNC talking points, it is ONLY Democrats who care about minorities especially those with compelling numbers of voters such as the Hispanic and black groups. Clever and guileful Democrats have learned that any lie presented brashly enough can gain footing among the preoccupied and the superficial among us. In fact they have completely extricated themselves from the shame which is a matter of public record, that being their inglorious past on matters of racial tolerance.

I'll go you one better, Mr Obama, for a time, actually had his hands on the claim that he (self proclaimed) was practically a reincarnate Abraham Lincoln! :please: A complicitous and adoring main stream media agreed and bought into that idea completely so, for a time, Mr Obama decided to lay claim on Ronald Reagan's legacy as well. That one didn't pan out so well, LOL.

Every time we see James Clyburn and other such staunch black caucus members standing up there behind Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid like they're the last word on racial tolerance, folks would do well to remember. They can thank Republicans for the fact that black folks can even vote, not one Democrat voted for their right to vote. Much less have to worry about being disenfranchised of their votes because of something as benign as legitimate voter ID cards which, are meant to protect everybody's right to vote.

[vundy33]

This topic goes to show that we can't have a discussion about race without being partisan about it. It has NOTHING to do with politics, nothing at all.

[vundy33]

But on the other side as well, black leaders have to step up and call it how it is, and they refuse to. Until both sides do this, there will never be a fair discussion.

Personally, I think it's as good as it's going to get. There will always be racists, but I believe we're further along than we ever have been.

[vundy33]

For the first time in a while I was able to listen to Rush far a bit today. He made some interesting comments that I will paraphrase. Several other countries and many different races of humans have fought TO KEEP slaves (of all colors) for thousands of years. Even Indian tribes slayed each other to keep their slaves.

The Untied States of America lost thousands upon thousands of (white) citizens in a war that ended up freeing slaves. White Americans have probably sacrificed more than any other group on earth to end slavery and though it's taken some time, as a country we have come a million miles. Yet we are the ones always taking the hits.

How soon Sharpton, Jackson and their ilk forget.

180,000 black soldiers fought in the Civil War (10% of the entire Union Army), and nearly 80,000 died in it. Died fighting while being hated and paid much less than the white guys they were fighting against. Whites didn't do all the work.

How soon SkinnyPig forgets...

[vundy33]

Another quick note...

If we are ever able to have a serious discussion about race in America, not only does politics need to be left out of it, it has to go both ways. It can't all be minorities bitching about what we (I'm white, for those that don't know me, lol) have done wrong. Accountability has to be there for blacks and Hispanic as well. Like why does Al Sharpton and Jesse never speak up when their community is in clear need of it, and only speak up when it's a chance to hate on white people? Why do they sit by when black youth all over the country are playing a ew game called "knockout" (goes by different names), in which a kid sneaks up on an unsuspecting person (in many cases a female) and hit them as hard as they can in the face or head, attempting to knock them out?

If I've ever heard a good reason for those two and other black leaders to step up, this is it. The media only started covering this recently, but it's been going on for years, a group of kids tried it on my friend and I in Clarksville in 2009. Hadn't thought about that until I read a short article buried deep in CNN's "U.S." section yesterday morning, and then seeing it in the evening on the Fox News show "The Five", I had no idea it was still going on and how it's much more prevalent today. It was even in the papers and on the news in Clarksville, Nashville, and especially Memphis, but national media is just now picking it up? Why won't Sharpton and Jackson say something about that?

That's just an example, but a good one. Until those minority leaders step up and call it both ways instead of insisting on only going after cases that involve a black person accuses a white (or any other race for that matter) of harming them in one way or another, we are never going to be able to have this discussion.

[TheRealThing]

This topic goes to show that we can't have a discussion about race without being partisan about it. It has NOTHING to do with politics, nothing at all.

We'll have to be satisfied with agreeing to disagree on this one my friend. Members of the black caucus singe the hair off Republicans as a matter of course. My intent here was only to point out that race IS being politicized at the federal level. I believe no member of Congress or the executive branch should ever dare to disparage either party but, without getting into all the examples and such, generally speaking the line of rationale being parroted by ALL Democrats, is that they care about minorities and Republicans do not. All campaigns and most speeches propagated by Dems are filled with exactly that kind of rhetorical nonsense. I have heard it over and over ad-nauseum. At any rate, IMO the responsibility for the growing racial unrest can reasonably be laid at the feet of politicians who have politicized equal rights issues in order to get elected. The resultant narrative has thusly breathed life into an idea, creating a national impression among minorities that they have been exploited by rich white Republicans.

I have heard Democrats charge that Republicans want to disenfranchise poor black folks of their right to vote many times in the past but, most notably in the following two firebrand disputes. First was the presidential election between Al Gore and George W. as it applied to the events in Florida. You remember all the bru-ha-ha? And in present day we have the Dems making the same charge as it applies to adequate voter ID cards. Nobody is trying to disenfranchise black folks of their votes despite the ballyhooed distortions of the left.

Today we saw the US Senate disenfranchise the entire nation of their vote and due representation if you ask me. Senate Dems who hold the edge right now in the that chamber, voted to change the rules from 60 votes down to a simple majority. Thus, Harry Reid will continue to ignore everything (legislation) coming up out of the House, thereby denying hundreds of millions of folks who sent Republican candidates to the hill to represent their interests. The simple majority of US Democratic Senators, having seen the handwriting on the wall, will rule until 2014. When, they will very likely be swept out in the same manner Dems were swept out of the House in 2010.

FWIW, I agree that it should never be partisan.

[SKINNYPIG]

180,000 black soldiers fought in the Civil War (10% of the entire Union Army), and nearly 80,000 died in it. Died fighting while being hated and paid much less than the white guys they were fighting against. Whites didn't do all the work.

How soon SkinnyPig forgets...

Where did I say that "Whites did all the work"? I was paraphrasing a simple point that "Rush" made on his show. Point being that this country and the people in it (vast majority being white) have sacrificed more to end slavery than any other country or race. To this day, this country and white people get little respect for those efforts.

How did you get that "I" was saying "whites did ALL the work?

SkinnyPig didn't soon forget anything.