[RunItUpTheGut]

Finally a somewhat reasonable debate tonight. No stupid question. Policy questions and policy questions only, mostly about the economy.


After watching the debate, let me first say everyone in the first debate needs to go ahead and quit. All they are doing is taking time away from the real candidates. Not a single soul in the first debate has a chance. End it now.

As for the actual debate, about half of them need to bow out. Kasich seems to be an absurd blowhard who obviously was told by advisors to be more aggressive and instead looked like a jackass. He, Fiorina, and Paul have absolutely no shot so they need to go away as well. I would include the abysmal campaign of Bush but im not convinced voters are too stupid to elect him when the time comes even though he is a complete loser on most issues.

As for the only ones with a legit shot at winning the nomination..

Trump- Better than last debate. Acted very professionally, and as ive stated several times, will be in the running.

Carson- Fell off big time tonight IMO, however, I think the votes he has have already made up there mind. I don't see how the media is already saying he done a good job. It was apparent they want to boost him to down trump a little bit.

Cruz- The obvious winner again for me tonight. Its amazing how eloquently spoken Cruz is compared to the other candidates. He can out debate them all and would crush all of them one on one. I just don't know if he can get the support to get the nomination.

Rubio- Blah. Same ole Rubio. No better. Rubio will be the RINO of choice IMO. He will soon overtake all of Bushs votes.

Jeb- Please quit. Your a travesty to debaters everywhere.

[Hoot Gibson]

I am looking forward to the day when Trump, Kasich, Bush, and Fiorina throw in the towel. I do not hear Trump adding anything to the bare bone policy positions that he laid out months ago and it makes me think that he is really not in it to win it. His repetitive campaign lines is starting to remind me of a Sean Hannity show. Repeat a half dozen lines over and over and over to make sure that everybody has a chance to hear your brilliant thoughts.

Kasich and Bush make me wonder how they ever won their first election. They are annoying people who seem to believe that others should support them because it is their turn. They are the most condescending presidential candidates since B. H. Obama and neither have a record that warrants any arrogance whatsoever.

Fiorina is a solid debater, but as the field narrows, the fact that her greatest accomplishment ended with HP firing her will make her easy pickin's for her more accomplished opponents.

I agree that it is time for the undercard debate participants to throw in the towel. Christie has turned in two straight strong debate performances. I also thought Jindal, Huckabee, and Santorum turned in pretty good performances, but this is not a normal year and none of these four guys are going to make the cut this year.

I like Ben Carson and hope that he lands a position in the next Republican president's cabinet (Sec. of Education or Sec. of Health and Human Services). He would also make a great Surgeon General and would be the perfect guy to clean house at the VA. In fact, if I were president, I would probably use Carson as my Mr. Fixit to address the vast array of disasters that Obama has created. Fixing the VA would be his first assignment.

As he has been from the start, Ted Cruz remains my top choice and nobody is a close second, IMO. Rubio is a fantastic communicator but if he wins the White House with a Republican Congress, amnesty will become a reality and unlike Obama's amnesty program, Rubio's will be the law of the land. In fact, I would expect Rubio to sign amnesty into law even if Democrats retake the U.S. Senate in 2016.

If Trump is serious about winning the White House, he needs to be putting some meat on the bones of his campaign. Otherwise, the race will soon be between Rubio and Cruz - and maybe Carson - but I am not sure how long Carson will be willing to take the extremely unfair attacks on his character.

[Stardust]

^ As I have said, Trump is a Buffoon! Yes, he has us talking about things we don't normally talk about, but that does not mean he is presidential material!

[Granny Bear]

I had visions of super gluing Kasich's lips together last night. He was an annoying distraction to say the least. Jeb is just a lost ball in high weeds. I don't think anybody takes him seriously! Fiorina is the one who believes repeating the same thing over and over again will make it true. For me, she lost a lot of ground last night.

Cruz is an eloquent speaker to me. His college debate back ground clearly came through last night. I hate to say this in a way, but I thought Trump and Carson made a whole lot of sense. Yes, there was some repetition, but you could also say that it was a consistency. Certainly wasn't the degree of repetition that Fiorina brought to the table. Carson's final statement was profound.

Trump made a statement one time that should he get the nomination, his choice for VP was standing on the stage with him. I'm thinking Cruz. Trump, Cruz and Carson as Surgeon General or Veteran Affairs. I could live with it.

[Hoot Gibson]

^ As I have said, Trump is a Buffoon! Yes, he has us talking about things we don't normally talk about, but that does not mean he is presidential material!

I do not consider Trump a buffoon, but I agree that he is not presidential material. I think that Trump wanted a few issues to be addressed during the campaign and none of the potential candidates seemed to be talking seriously about them. Trump has achieved his goal and enhanced his "brand." This campaign will end up costing Trump little or nothing and he is positioned to pick the winner.

Trump is a smart man and he has been campaigning for months. The fact that he does not seem to be prepared to discuss many details of his positions suggests to me that he has no intention of being the Republican presidential candidate. His focus on illegal immigration has made it much more difficult for either Rubio or Jeb Bush, the two darlings of the Republican establishment, to win in 2016.

I predict that Trump will withdraw from the campaign eventually and endorse Ted Cruz. I also think that Trump will withdraw from the race before he slides very much in the polls. Trump has run a brilliant campaign, IMO, if his intent was to ensure that illegal immigration and the economy would be the focus of debate and to ensure that his pick for the White House has a strong shot at winning.

I have a vision of Trump and Fiorina both endorsing Cruz and listening to Hillary whine to Cruz about their attacks on her character.

[Granny Bear]

^^
That makes a lot of sense to me.

All but Hillary's character.....an oxymoron!

[Hoot Gibson]

^^
That makes a lot of sense to me.

All but Hillary's character.....an oxymoron!

I didn't say that Hillary has any character, in my vision of the future, she will be whining about attacks on her character. (I did consider adding a parenthetical, "What character?") I truly hope that whoever Republicans nominate that they will campaign like they are conducting a criminal prosecution. I believe that Cruz, Fiorina, Trump, and Christie would run that kind of campaign against the criminal Democrat nominee. Trump already made the statement that Hillary is running in an attempt to avoid jail.

[Stardust]

I do not consider Trump a buffoon, but I agree that he is not presidential material. I think that Trump wanted a few issues to be addressed during the campaign and none of the potential candidates seemed to be talking seriously about them. Trump has achieved his goal and enhanced his "brand." This campaign will end up costing Trump little or nothing and he is positioned to pick the winner.

Trump is a smart man and he has been campaigning for months. The fact that he does not seem to be prepared to discuss many details of his positions suggests to me that he has no intention of being the Republican presidential candidate. His focus on illegal immigration has made it much more difficult for either Rubio or Jeb Bush, the two darlings of the Republican establishment, to win in 2016.

I predict that Trump will withdraw from the campaign eventually and endorse Ted Cruz. I also think that Trump will withdraw from the race before he slides very much in the polls. Trump has run a brilliant campaign, IMO, if his intent was to ensure that illegal immigration and the economy would be the focus of debate and to ensure that his pick for the White House has a strong shot at winning.

I have a vision of Trump and Fiorina both endorsing Cruz and listening to Hillary whine to Cruz about their attacks on her character.

By definition, I believe he is a buffoon - "a ridiculous but amusing person". If I was electing someone to run my business, to tell the competition to go to hell, to dictate to the associates "it's my way or no way", then Trump would be my guy. And though one of our nation's biggest downfalls has been the over exaggeration of tolerance, I do believe Crass is a major tool needed by a President, and that is something that Trump fails in completely. You are spot on about his intelligence. Though I do not want him as my president, I love that he has shaken Washington's old cronies to it's core!

I am in agreement with you about Ben likelihood to concede, but I think he is the most presidential candidate of all who are running. I love this man's character and could trust him making the right endorsements regardless of the side of the House! He is the closest in my opinion to bring some level of harmony to both parties.

[Granny Bear]

I like the way Carson carries himself. During his campaigning and the debates, it's like he elevates himself to be above the fray. LOL

Bill and Hill will never pay for the crimes they have committed or will continue to commit. Look at all the shady things they have slid through already.

[Hoot Gibson]

By definition, I believe he is a buffoon - "a ridiculous but amusing person". If I was electing someone to run my business, to tell the competition to go to hell, to dictate to the associates "it's my way or no way", then Trump would be my guy. And though one of our nation's biggest downfalls has been the over exaggeration of tolerance, I do believe Crass is a major tool needed by a President, and that is something that Trump fails in completely. You are spot on about his intelligence. Though I do not want him as my president, I love that he has shaken Washington's old cronies to it's core!

I am in agreement with you about Ben likelihood to concede, but I think he is the most presidential candidate of all who are running. I love this man's character and could trust him making the right endorsements regardless of the side of the House! He is the closest in my opinion to bring some level of harmony to both parties.

I agree with you 100 percent about Carson. He is all class. However, I am not looking for a president who will work well with Democrats, or with the RINOS who are running Congress today. Harmony with the politicians running Washington today would be a step backwards.

I want a president who will speak persuasively directly to the American public and generate pressure on politicians of both parties to start doing the jobs that they were elected to do. It is because Dr. Carson is so non-confrontational that I do not believe he is the best man for the job at this time. Pelosi, Reid, McConnell, and Ryan would make life very difficult for a President Carson. I also do not believe that Carson is prepared for the kind of dirty campaign that Hillary Clinton would wage against him.

[Stardust]

^ I understand where you are coming from completely. You don’t have to scream and shout in order to be a person of principle. Ben Carson is a person who says what he thinks, hasn’t spent decades screwing the pooch in Washington or flying his ass from the media flagpole, and he isn’t friends with the pack rats running through the sewers of democracy.

Carson is doing something no one has done in decades, combine a values-laden conservative message with a soft-spoken, humble persona. Others who have sought Reagan’s mantle have emulated elements of the Gipper’s approach, but none have spoken the language of freedom and the morality of the Bible with such eloquence until now. Carson is as close to unifying all wings of conservatism as anyone since George W. Bush in 2000.

[TheRealThing]

Finally a somewhat reasonable debate tonight. No stupid question. Policy questions and policy questions only, mostly about the economy.


After watching the debate, let me first say everyone in the first debate needs to go ahead and quit. All they are doing is taking time away from the real candidates. Not a single soul in the first debate has a chance. End it now.

As for the actual debate, about half of them need to bow out. Kasich seems to be an absurd blowhard who obviously was told by advisors to be more aggressive and instead looked like a jackass. He, Fiorina, and Paul have absolutely no shot so they need to go away as well. I would include the abysmal campaign of Bush but im not convinced voters are too stupid to elect him when the time comes even though he is a complete loser on most issues.

As for the only ones with a legit shot at winning the nomination..

Trump- Better than last debate. Acted very professionally, and as ive stated several times, will be in the running.

Carson- Fell off big time tonight IMO, however, I think the votes he has have already made up there mind. I don't see how the media is already saying he done a good job. It was apparent they want to boost him to down trump a little bit.

Cruz- The obvious winner again for me tonight. Its amazing how eloquently spoken Cruz is compared to the other candidates. He can out debate them all and would crush all of them one on one. I just don't know if he can get the support to get the nomination.

Rubio- Blah. Same ole Rubio. No better. Rubio will be the RINO of choice IMO. He will soon overtake all of Bushs votes.

Jeb- Please quit. Your a travesty to debaters everywhere.

^^Couldn't be said a lot better than this.



Cruz is the one getting the red headed stepchild treatment. When I consider how plainly he speaks and how clear he makes his programs, I wonder how it is that the media continue to act like he isn't even up on the stage. Oh, he gets questions and when he does he always knocks them out of the park. But post debate he is never mentioned. I'm sorry, but there is only one likely reason for that to my way of thinking, and that is his obvious stand for Christ. Therefore, it is my contention that he has been relegated to the ranks of the Freedom Caucus in the minds of most of the talking heads. The Freedom Caucus BTW, is in the process of being vilified along with the Tea Party by RINO's and Dems. Cruz was by far the best candidate on that stage.

[TheRealThing]

I agree with you 100 percent about Carson. He is all class. However, I am not looking for a president who will work well with Democrats, or with the RINOS who are running Congress today. Harmony with the politicians running Washington today would be a step backwards.

I want a president who will speak persuasively directly to the American public and generate pressure on politicians of both parties to start doing the jobs that they were elected to do. It is because Dr. Carson is so non-confrontational that I do not believe he is the best man for the job at this time. Pelosi, Reid, McConnell, and Ryan would make life very difficult for a President Carson. I also do not believe that Carson is prepared for the kind of dirty campaign that Hillary Clinton would wage against him.

Yeah, though I may have great respect and appreciation for my doctor, I may not necessarily want him to be my President. Carson has achieved what many will never know anything about, and that is a blend of success and humility. Thus he has respect for others while not taking himself too seriously. I really like that about him but as you say, the mud will fly during the campaign and the Republicans had better come up with the right guy to wage that war.

I'm not in the Rubio camp. The clear front runner in my eyes has always been Cruz. And there is irony in the fact that his campaign is not doing better than it is presently, and that is in the fact that more attention has not been given to his tax plan which would abolish the IRS. I mean, we're talking about increasing one's income by quite a bit here if we go to a 10% flat tax rate. I hate the annual tax filing merry go round, not to mention that most folks could really put that extra money to good use.

But as Dusty mentioned, there is really only one reason we're talking about illegal immigration and the like, and that is thanks to Mr Trump. Before his stated stance on illegals in this country, absolutely nobody had the nerve to make so much as a glancing blow about it. He could do himself a world of good though, if he would just back up a little and tailor his deportation plans of said illegals to include those who are overtaken in some illegal activity. In other words, if they get busted driving drunk, selling drugs or knocking off a drug store, then have them sent back home. That's the only way law enforcement likely to find them anyway. And BTW, all these people are citizens of their own homeland. How did we Americans come to the asinine notion that we are somehow responsible for those who were born outside of the US and who have managed somehow to crash the border at some weak spot? How ridiculous an idea is that? Let them go on back home, that isn't dooming them to the phantom zone, that is just sending them back to their home.

[TheRealThing]

^ I understand where you are coming from completely. You don’t have to scream and shout in order to be a person of principle. Ben Carson is a person who says what he thinks, hasn’t spent decades screwing the pooch in Washington or flying his ass from the media flagpole, and he isn’t friends with the pack rats running through the sewers of democracy.

Carson is doing something no one has done in decades, combine a values-laden conservative message with a soft-spoken, humble persona. Others who have sought Reagan’s mantle have emulated elements of the Gipper’s approach, but none have spoken the language of freedom and the morality of the Bible with such eloquence until now. Carson is as close to unifying all wings of conservatism as anyone since George W. Bush in 2000.

I can see him uniting the Republican conference. And, if one were to use the same argument I have used in defending the sage leadership skills of Ronald Reagan, Carson may well have the grace and humility necessary to pick the right people for leadership positions, and then step back somewhat and let them lead. If he can do that, things recently gone awry from a weakened military, to issues with a highly politicized federal reserve could be fixed. The economics or our day along with the two nations of Russia and China who are vying for superpower status represent tremendous challenge, that and 20 plus trillion in debt and even more government give-aways which are to come before Obama's merciful departure, are no small thing.

[Stardust]

Just like last night, a very civil debate we are having here.... ;-)

[Hoot Gibson]

^ I understand where you are coming from completely. You don’t have to scream and shout in order to be a person of principle. Ben Carson is a person who says what he thinks, hasn’t spent decades screwing the pooch in Washington or flying his ass from the media flagpole, and he isn’t friends with the pack rats running through the sewers of democracy.

Carson is doing something no one has done in decades, combine a values-laden conservative message with a soft-spoken, humble persona. Others who have sought Reagan’s mantle have emulated elements of the Gipper’s approach, but none have spoken the language of freedom and the morality of the Bible with such eloquence until now. Carson is as close to unifying all wings of conservatism as anyone since George W. Bush in 2000.

I supported George W. Bush's foreign policy, but I never really considered him to be a conservative. Let's not forget that had it not been for public outrage fueled by right wing talk radio, the amnesty for illegals bill that was crafted by Rubio, McCain, and rest of the Gang of Eight would have landed on Bush's desk, and Bush was ready to sign it.

The thing that Reagan had going for him that is often overlooked was that behind that smiling face was a very effective negotiator. Reagan's personal library was filled with books on history and politics and his experience as a union leader and two-term California governor prepared him well for the Oval Office. Carson is obviously a man of strong faith, great intelligence, and character, but he is not remotely as prepared to step into the presidency as Reagan was.

As for GWB and the Bush family, I have lost much of what respect I once had for them. George H. W. Bush's recent attacks on Rumsfeld and Cheney were really classless, IMO. George W.'s statement that he dislikes Cruz also bothers me. These are the same people who enjoy socializing with the criminal former White House residents, Bill and Hillary Clinton, attacking men who served in their administrations with dedication and distinction. This is the same family who steadfastly refused to criticize Obama as he has actively worked to destroy our form of government and the very fabric of our society.

I really have no use for the Bush family and their close family friends, the Clintoons.

[TheRealThing]

I had visions of super gluing Kasich's lips together last night. He was an annoying distraction to say the least. Jeb is just a lost ball in high weeds. I don't think anybody takes him seriously! Fiorina is the one who believes repeating the same thing over and over again will make it true. For me, she lost a lot of ground last night.

Cruz is an eloquent speaker to me. His college debate back ground clearly came through last night. I hate to say this in a way, but I thought Trump and Carson made a whole lot of sense. Yes, there was some repetition, but you could also say that it was a consistency. Certainly wasn't the degree of repetition that Fiorina brought to the table. Carson's final statement was profound.

Trump made a statement one time that should he get the nomination, his choice for VP was standing on the stage with him. I'm thinking Cruz. Trump, Cruz and Carson as Surgeon General or Veteran Affairs. I could live with it.

Right, and the thing is this. Whoever emerges from the primary season as nominee, will have their hands full to beat Hillary. So, though most on here would agree that even the Republican bottom tier candidates would be far better than Hillary, I can't see a Kasich or a Fiorina besting her in an actual campaign.

I always get suspicious when the left starts pushing for the opposition candidate by saying how tough they think they'd be for Hillary to beat. First they were all about Jeb, his Presidential fortunes have not faired so well and so now they're up on the Rubio band wagon. The Dems think they're waay smarter than those on the right, so you can bet they're trying to manipulate public opinion in order to get a candidate they think they can easily beat. As an example, I've always thought Jeb was hadable and he is getting hammered by everybody right now except for his campaign manager.

[TheRealThing]

It will seem to some that I am defending Trump with this post. And, I suppose to some degree that is true. That does not dissuade however, my observation of media bias and the failure on the part of Rand Paul to visualize the possible outcome as seen by Trump with regard to the TPP. Here is what I saw on debate night.

Trump was lambasting China for manipulating currency and abusing the US in the process. So far so good, China is definitely guilty. Also suggesting that the TPP would let China come in the back door on trade and continue it's pursuit of world dominance to that end, Trump is very clear on his opposition to the TPP.

Rand Paul at this point, gets in what is reportedly his best zinger against Trump in reminding him that China is not part of the TPP. To which Gerard Baker, FBN debate moderator, Editor-in-Chief of Dow Jones and The Wall Street Journal, responded in kind.

BAKER'S RESPONSE TO RAND PAUL:
"But isn't that -- isn't that part of the problem? When I say, Senator, that if -- if this deal is not ratified by -- by the U.S. -- by the Senate, then it would actually give China an opportunity to grow its economic leadership, which it's been seeking to do? And if the U.S. is unable to take part in this trade deal with these countries in Asia, China will take the lead?"

It seemed to me that Mr Baker's comment on what Trump had just said, offered at least some degree of cover. And frankly, no one can say Trump's view is definitely incorrect going in. Trump, and Baker to a lesser extent, are arging here that China will achieve it's aims probably easier, since they are not willing to participate. Everybody else will play fair, and they (China) will take their normal tack in continuing to not play fair. To me, it is a tremendous financial roll of the dice to think that China will be compelled at some point to "dock", into the TPP agreement at a later date.

NAFTA has been a disaster since it's inception, and the TPP merely seeks to expand it to include 12 more nations, with China declining to participate. Dr. Margaret Flowers ---"And where there are about 26 chapters (of the TPP), what we know is what has been leaked. Out of those 26 chapters, only about five of them have to do with traditional trade. So what we see in this agreement is that it's not really about trade; it's about creating a backdoor for corporations (and Mr Trump would argue China) to get some of the changes that they want. So deregulation of the financial industry, longer patent protections for the pharmaceutical industries, internet privacy restrictions, you know, these are the things that these corporations have wanted to get but they haven't been able to so far, and this is a vehicle for doing that." ---END QUOTE

All in all, I find the whole deal disingenuous at best. IMHO, Paul didn't score the slam-the-door-on-Trump moment that has been reported at all. Did not Trump say China would have opportunity, thanks to this trade deal, to achieve their aims by going in the back door? And again, Mr Baker's credentials are impressive by any standard and in his remarks, it is clear that he saw through to the end game here and was agreeing to some degree with Mr Trump.

[TheRealThing]

I supported George W. Bush's foreign policy, but I never really considered him to be a conservative. Let's not forget that had it not been for public outrage fueled by right wing talk radio, the amnesty for illegals bill that was crafted by Rubio, McCain, and rest of the Gang of Eight would have landed on Bush's desk, and Bush was ready to sign it.

The thing that Reagan had going for him that is often overlooked was that behind that smiling face was a very effective negotiator. Reagan's personal library was filled with books on history and politics and his experience as a union leader and two-term California governor prepared him well for the Oval Office. Carson is obviously a man of strong faith, great intelligence, and character, but he is not remotely as prepared to step into the presidency as Reagan was.

As for GWB and the Bush family, I have lost much of what respect I once had for them. George H. W. Bush's recent attacks on Rumsfeld and Cheney were really classless, IMO. George W.'s statement that he dislikes Cruz also bothers me. These are the same people who enjoy socializing with the criminal former White House residents, Bill and Hillary Clinton, attacking men who served in their administrations with dedication and distinction. This is the same family who steadfastly refused to criticize Obama as he has actively worked to destroy our form of government and the very fabric of our society.

I really have no use for the Bush family and their close family friends, the Clintoons.

Agreed. I really believe the Bushes can play both sides without feeling like hypocrites because they feel like they were born a little higher than regular mortals. They are generally moral upright people who believe in American exceptionalism, but I do not believe in their heart of hearts, that they think the Clintons are on their level, nor would Obama be on their level.

People with money think they are impervious to any coming national calamity. They feel insulated from the masses and frankly better. I have a unique view on that matter I guess, to me a bank full of worthless money is no better than the pauper's lot. If George H were not fretting over W's legacy, I doubt he would have ever gone after Cheney and Rumsfeld like he did. In other words, the fate of the world is somewhat secondary in George H's mind, as compared to the view history will give his son. Though, I would qualify any criticisms of H owing to his advanced age. I really doubt he's thinking all that clearly.

When I read your post my thoughts turned to how a real patriot, such as one of the founders, would have acted if he'd been in H's shoes. Needless to say, love of country and sense of duty would have outweighed any feelings of political correctness.

[RunItUpTheGut]

The way I see it, and I understand other may feel different, and that's why we vote, but the way I see it, if Trump or Cruz isn't elected president things aren't going to get much better.

[Hoot Gibson]

You called, Dusty, and you called it early. I was wrong. Trump is a buffoon. nicker:

^ As I have said, Trump is a Buffoon! Yes, he has us talking about things we don't normally talk about, but that does not mean he is presidential material!

I do not consider Trump a buffoon, but I agree that he is not presidential material. I think that Trump wanted a few issues to be addressed during the campaign and none of the potential candidates seemed to be talking seriously about them. Trump has achieved his goal and enhanced his "brand." This campaign will end up costing Trump little or nothing and he is positioned to pick the winner.

Trump is a smart man and he has been campaigning for months. The fact that he does not seem to be prepared to discuss many details of his positions suggests to me that he has no intention of being the Republican presidential candidate. His focus on illegal immigration has made it much more difficult for either Rubio or Jeb Bush, the two darlings of the Republican establishment, to win in 2016.

I predict that Trump will withdraw from the campaign eventually and endorse Ted Cruz. I also think that Trump will withdraw from the race before he slides very much in the polls. Trump has run a brilliant campaign, IMO, if his intent was to ensure that illegal immigration and the economy would be the focus of debate and to ensure that his pick for the White House has a strong shot at winning.

I have a vision of Trump and Fiorina both endorsing Cruz and listening to Hillary whine to Cruz about their attacks on her character.