[Hoot Gibson]

I agree with you in much you state here, and, in fact, in an earlier post expressed the dubious nature of Soros' "financial wrangling." However, I cannot concur that the Koch brothers are simply benevolent do gooders any more than I can ignore the philanthropy of Soros. Were both weighed in some sort of morality scale, I am not prepared to state what the metre might register. You are prepared to state. In this, we disagree.

Can you give a single example where the Koch brothers did anything comparable to destablizing a nation's currency for personal gain? IMO, there is no amount of philanthropy that can make up for such a deed.

Also, you speak exclusively about Soros's philanthropy as though the Koch family is filled with clones of Ebenezer Scrooge.

Beyond the Boogeyman

Admittedly, my political philosophy is much closer to the Koch brothers than to Soros, but politics aside, the Koch brothers have done nothing to warrant the demonization of the liberal media. The same media rarely explains how Soros became so wealthy. Nor do they detail the personal suffering that Soros has caused in accumulating his fortune.

[The Urban Sombrero]

Can you give a single example where the Koch brothers did anything comparable to destablizing a nation's currency for personal gain? IMO, there is no amount of philanthropy that can make up for such a deed.

Also, you speak exclusively about Soros's philanthropy as though the Koch family is filled with clones of Ebenezer Scrooge.

Beyond the Boogeyman

Admittedly, my political philosophy is much closer to the Koch brothers than to Soros, but politics aside, the Koch brothers have done nothing to warrant the demonization of the liberal media. The same media rarely explains how Soros became so wealthy. Nor do they detail the personal suffering that Soros has caused in accumulating his fortune.

Just for sake of debate, let us say that climate change is real and a threat to survival. I would suggest that the Koch brothers efforts to combat climate science will be viewed to be as destructive.

I certainly do agree that the Koch brothers have done a lot of philanthropic giving. My point in all this has not been to lift Soros up, nor to yank the Koch brothers down. But, rather to say Soros is not Lucifer, and the Koch brothers are not angelic.

[Hoot Gibson]

Just for sake of debate, let us say that climate change is real and a threat to survival. I would suggest that the Koch brothers efforts to combat climate science will be viewed to be as destructive.

I certainly do agree that the Koch brothers have done a lot of philanthropic giving. My point in all this has not been to lift Soros up, nor to yank the Koch brothers down. But, rather to say Soros is not Lucifer, and the Koch brothers are not angelic.

Let us agree that climate change is real and it has been real for billions of years. Climatology is an inexact science at best and attributing the suffering of even a single person to the Koch brothers because of their opposition to climate change mitigation, I would argue, is impossible.

The same is not true of the currency manipulation that Soros has engaged in. Much of Soros's wealth has come from playing a zero sum game, where he wins while taxpayers and/or investors lose. He was convicted of insider trading in France and fined $3 million. The suffering that results from Soros's currency games are easily tied directly to him. No complicated computer models are required.

Soros is an evil man - not on the level of a Hitler or Stalin, but he has exploited people whose standard of living dropped because of his greedy and cynical pursuit of power and wealth. The same cannot be said of the Koch brothers.

[catdoggy]

Let us agree that climate change is real and it has been real for billions of years. Climatology is an inexact science at best and attributing the suffering of even a single person to the Koch brothers because of their opposition to climate change mitigation, I would argue, is impossible.

The same is not true of the currency manipulation that Soros has engaged in. Much of Soros's wealth has come from playing a zero sum game, where he wins while taxpayers and/or investors lose. He was convicted of insider trading in France and fined $3 million. The suffering that results from Soros's currency games are easily tied directly to him. No complicated computer models are required.

Soros is an evil man - not on the level of a Hitler or Stalin, but he has exploited people whose standard of living dropped because of his greedy and cynical pursuit of power and wealth. The same cannot be said of the Koch brothers.

I think the same CAN be said for the union busting Kochs.

[Hoot Gibson]

I think the same CAN be said for the union busting Kochs.

The same CAN be said of corrupt union thug-leaders like Richard Trumka as can be said of Soros. Corrupt union leaders in this country have looked the other way while liberal Democrats and country club Republicans have conspired to flood the country with cheap, illegal labor and future Democrat voters.

Union members who have tolerated their corrupt leadership for decades have as much responsibility for the decline of private sector union membership as the corrupt Democrat politicians, for whom most of them vote.

Which socialist policies of Soros's do you support? Gay marriage? Open borders? Unrestricted access to abortion? Legalization of drugs with no corresponding crack down on irresponsible drug abuse that harms others? All of the above? What about George Soros do you find so appealing?

[The Urban Sombrero]

Climate change is indeed real, and indeed revealed throughout history. However, it is happening at an accelerated pace, a pace traceable to the Industrial Age. Where did the Koch family crack into the monied elite? What was the vehicle? To pay for science that denies a reality that needs debunked to keep the business interests running? Many a smoker needed the science to be wrong. Many a study, funded by Big Tobacco, debunked. Until the evidence, and pull along oxygen, just became too much to deny. If history reveals what many island nations already know, the Koch brothers chose silver and gold above truth, paying "science" for an assist in cognitive dissonance. Thus any angelic music playing in the background of their proffered halo, differentiating them from Soros, is partisan and self-serving.

[Hoot Gibson]

Climate change is indeed real, and indeed revealed throughout history. However, it is happening at an accelerated pace, a pace traceable to the Industrial Age. Where did the Koch family crack into the monied elite? What was the vehicle? To pay for science that denies a reality that needs debunked to keep the business interests running? Many a smoker needed the science to be wrong. Many a study, funded by Big Tobacco, debunked. Until the evidence, and pull along oxygen, just became too much to deny. If history reveals what many island nations already know, the Koch brothers chose silver and gold above truth, paying "science" for an assist in cognitive dissonance. Thus any angelic music playing in the background of their proffered halo, differentiating them from Soros, is partisan and self-serving.

Contending that man made global warming is a fact is intellectually dishonest. There have been numerous well documented cases of fraudulent manipulation of temperature records. Climatologists have repeatedly overhauled their computer models as their dire predictions of a global warming catastrophe have failed to materialize.

Global cooling theories of the 1970s were replaced by global warming theories, which gave way to "climate change. The common thread to the sky is falling "science" is that the solution to the predicted climate catastrophes is and has always been more government control over the governed. In other words, there exists a substantial power grab component in every such manufactured crisis.

The evidence of both a much, much warmer Earth and a much, much colder Earth over the eons strongly suggests that there are much more significant influences on this planet's climate than mankind and our use of energy.

I expect that you will continue to posit that George Soros is the moral equivalent of the Koch brothers if you want. However, the fact is that Koch Industries creates wealth by creating products that the market demands, employing 100,000 men and women in the process. Most of Soros's wealth has been gained by draining the wealth that others have created. This world would be a better place had George Soros never been born, and millions of people around the globe share my view. Not all people who despise Soros are American conservatives. He wore his welcome out in the UK and France years ago with his shady business practices.

[The Urban Sombrero]

Contending that man made global warming is a fact is intellectually dishonest. There have been numerous well documented cases of fraudulent manipulation of temperature records. Climatologists have repeatedly overhauled their computer models as their dire predictions of a global warming catastrophe have failed to materialize.

Global cooling theories of the 1970s were replaced by global warming theories, which gave way to "climate change. The common thread to the sky is falling "science" is that the solution to the predicted climate catastrophes is and has always been more government control over the governed. In other words, there exists a substantial power grab component in every such manufactured crisis.

The evidence of both a much, much warmer Earth and a much, much colder Earth over the eons strongly suggests that there are much more significant influences on this planet's climate than mankind and our use of energy.

I expect that you will continue to posit that George Soros is the moral equivalent of the Koch brothers if you want. However, the fact is that Koch Industries creates wealth by creating products that the market demands, employing 100,000 men and women in the process. Most of Soros's wealth has been gained by draining the wealth that others have created. This world would be a better place had George Soros never been born, and millions of people around the globe share my view. Not all people who despise Soros are American conservatives. He wore his welcome out in the UK and France years ago with his shady business practices.

We disagree on what the real science suggests about the acceleration of warming.

I declined to enter the "who is more moral" sweepstakes on Soros and the Koch brothers.

[Hoot Gibson]

We disagree on what the real science suggests about the acceleration of warming.

I declined to enter the "who is more moral" sweepstakes on Soros and the Koch brothers.

Yes, we will have to disagree on both counts.

With a wealth of scientific evidence under their collective nose here on Earth, the same climatologists whose models have repeatedly failed to predict future temperatures on Earth are now saying that their models suggest that Venus was probably once cooler than Earth and that it had liquid oceans.

I will take the Koch brothers over George Soros and Al Gore any day.

[TheRealThing]

Contending that man made global warming is a fact is intellectually dishonest. There have been numerous well documented cases of fraudulent manipulation of temperature records. Climatologists have repeatedly overhauled their computer models as their dire predictions of a global warming catastrophe have failed to materialize.

Global cooling theories of the 1970s were replaced by global warming theories, which gave way to "climate change. The common thread to the sky is falling "science" is that the solution to the predicted climate catastrophes is and has always been more government control over the governed. In other words, there exists a substantial power grab component in every such manufactured crisis.

The evidence of both a much, much warmer Earth and a much, much colder Earth over the eons strongly suggests that there are much more significant influences on this planet's climate than mankind and our use of energy.

I expect that you will continue to posit that George Soros is the moral equivalent of the Koch brothers if you want. However, the fact is that Koch Industries creates wealth by creating products that the market demands, employing 100,000 men and women in the process. Most of Soros's wealth has been gained by draining the wealth that others have created. This world would be a better place had George Soros never been born, and millions of people around the globe share my view. Not all people who despise Soros are American conservatives. He wore his welcome out in the UK and France years ago with his shady business practices.

^^All true, and I agree 100%. There is no there there with global warming, that is not attributable to the cyclic ebb and flow of the weather. And as you point out, the only inconvenient truth we must deal with here is the fact that rabid self perpetuating climatologists have been overtaken many times in contriving and falsifying global warming supporting data.

[Bob Seger]

^^All true, and I agree 100%. There is no there there with global warming, that is not attributable to the cyclic ebb and flow of the weather. And as you point out, the only inconvenient truth we must deal with here is the fact that rabid self perpetuating climatologists have been overtaken many times in contriving and falsifying global warming supporting data.

It keeps all of these so called "scientists" in a job and the funding flowing when you continue squeal the sky is falling....That's why they have been caught continuously falsifying the reports.

Remember the predictions in the 70's that the earth would freeze over by the turn of the century? That didn't happen, so we go from that to the "global warming" fad, which contradicted its self , to the now cool to cry "climate change" rhetoric.

[Bob Seger]

How many times have we heard of weather breaking 100-150 year old records? How did temperatures reach the levels of which they were recorded then, when there was not a wide spread use of fossil fuels back in the day? Anybody ever think of that?

[TheRealThing]

We disagree on what the real science suggests about the acceleration of warming.

I declined to enter the "who is more moral" sweepstakes on Soros and the Koch brothers.

You're a man who appreciates Biblical perspective in matters that have demonstrable impact on the state of civilization, right Sombrero? If global warming is real, what are you going to do with this?
Genesis 8:21-22 (KJV)
21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; [SIZE="3"]neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.
22 While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease[/SIZE].

This account follows the great flood in which everything was destroyed and mankind started again from scratch. You will notice that God promises never to destroy the earth again, as long as it 'remaineth.' So if that's true and we all know that God cannot lie, how would global warming be a threat to any of these climactic processes of which God has clearly assured, will remain until the end? The seasons will remain, seedtime and harvest will remain, and in general, the orderly natural processes of day and night and the weather if you will, will continue.

I await your response.

[The Urban Sombrero]

You're a man who appreciates Biblical perspective in matters that have demonstrable impact on the state of civilization, right Sombrero? If global warming is real, what are you going to do with this?
Genesis 8:21-22 (KJV)
21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; [SIZE="2"]neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.
22 While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease[/SIZE].
This account follows the great flood in which everything was destroyed and mankind started again from scratch. You will notice that God promises never to destroy the earth again, as long as it 'remaineth.' So if that's true and we all know that God cannot lie, how would global warming be a threat to any of these climactic processes of which God has clearly assured, will remain until the end? The seasons will remain, seedtime and harvest will remain, and in general, the orderly natural processes of day and night and the weather if you will, will continue.

I await your response.

These are good Scriptures, and certainly worth contemplating. However, at the same time, sea levels are rising. I have personally seen that. Certainly, there are now places on the earth which do not support "seedtime and harvest."

I have also personally seen lakes that once were vibrant with life that are now dead.

Ultimately, the Scriptures you quote are God's promises to man. I do not see how they pertain to a man-built slurry pond bursting its earthen barrier and choking a stream. God does not dump raw sewage into rivers. Man does. God does not spew radiation into the atmosphere testing nuclear bombs. Man does. God created rain. Man created acid rain. I could continue.

I make no claim that the earth will be completely destroyed by climate change before God closes history. However, climate change is real, has accelerated in the Industrial Age, and that belongs to Man.

[TheRealThing]

These are good Scriptures, and certainly worth contemplating. However, at the same time, sea levels are rising. I have personally seen that. Certainly, there are now places on the earth which do not support "seedtime and harvest."

I have also personally seen lakes that once were vibrant with life that are now dead.

Ultimately, the Scriptures you quote are God's promises to man. I do not see how they pertain to a man-built slurry pond bursting its earthen barrier and choking a stream. God does not dump raw sewage into rivers. Man does. God does not spew radiation into the atmosphere testing nuclear bombs. Man does. God created rain. Man created acid rain. I could continue.

I make no claim that the earth will be completely destroyed by climate change before God closes history. However, climate change is real, has accelerated in the Industrial Age, and that belongs to Man.

No, now let's focus here for a second. The movies showing 1,000 foot tall tidal waves penetrating from the Atlantic Ocean all the way to Chicago, or rising oceans inundating the entire coastline for hundreds of miles inland. The stranded polar bears and seals floating on that last ice cube, predictions of drought and famine producing weather changes, are all meant to scare people into accepting as certain our coming doom because of energy consumption.

In fact, our entire way of life is under threat because your kindred want to eliminate the use of fossil fuels completely. No cars, no manufacturing, no comfortable homes, no hot water, if would take a book to adequately describe the many comforts we are about to surrender to idiots with ice coring machines and over active imaginations.

God said the seasons would continue, and the weather would be conducive to keep the crops coming in. The global warming crowd produced the show, "Life after Humans" Ever seen that one? They're predicting the end of mankind here, nothing short. Which is right, pseudo science or God?

[The Urban Sombrero]

No, now let's focus here for a second. The movies showing 1,000 foot tall tidal waves penetrating from the Atlantic Ocean all the way to Chicago, or rising oceans inundating the entire coastline for hundreds of miles inland. The stranded polar bears and seals floating on that last ice cube, predictions of drought and famine producing weather changes, are all meant to scare people into accepting as certain our coming doom because of energy consumption.

In fact, our entire way of life is under threat because your kindred want to eliminate the use of fossil fuels completely. No cars, no manufacturing, no comfortable homes, no hot water, if would take a book to adequately describe the many comforts we are about to surrender to idiots with ice coring machines and over active imaginations.

God said the seasons would continue, and the weather would be conducive to keep the crops coming in. The global warming crowd produced the show, "Life after Humans" Ever seen that one? They're predicting the end of mankind here, nothing short. Which is right, pseudo science or God?

I support the Kentucky Wildcats. Am I, therefore, accountable for every view, every action of every player, every coach, every administrator? If three football players get in a ballroom brawl, does that mean I applaud it if I cheer at a basketball game?

Without question, many in the "global warming crowd" are not interested in what the Bible has to say. I am not a "hook, line, and sinker" doomsdayer. I have flown over mountain top removal. I have seen raw sewage flowing into fresh water. I do believe the planet is warming at an accelerated pace.

[TheRealThing]

I support the Kentucky Wildcats. Am I, therefore, accountable for every view, every action of every player, every coach, every administrator? If three football players get in a ballroom brawl, does that mean I applaud it if I cheer at a basketball game?

Without question, many in the "global warming crowd" are not interested in what the Bible has to say. I am not a "hook, line, and sinker" doomsdayer. I have flown over mountain top removal. I have seen raw sewage flowing into fresh water. I do believe the planet is warming at an accelerated pace.

You're just not going to get pinned down on this are you? We Americans are good stewards, for the most part, of our environment. We don't need an EPA with a license to kill to ride herd. At any rate, global warming is a conjecture of man, of which to lend credibility, he has loosely applied known science.

Trump has it right, it is a hoax.

[The Urban Sombrero]

You're just not going to get pinned down on this are you? We Americans are good stewards, for the most part, of our environment. We don't need an EPA with a license to kill to ride herd. At any rate, global warming is a conjecture of man, of which to lend credibility, he has loosely applied known science.

Trump has it right, it is a hoax.

As to timelines of demise, conjecture. As to the reality of accelerated warming, let us hearken to cognitive dissonance and the example of Big Tobacco and the smoker.

For a Bible reader, you sure discount greed as one of the most powerful drives...the otherness of covetousness.

[TheRealThing]

As to timelines of demise, conjecture. As to the reality of accelerated warming, let us hearken to cognitive dissonance and the example of Big Tobacco and the smoker.

For a Bible reader, you sure discount greed as one of the most powerful drives...the otherness of covetousness.

There is nothing wrong with wealth. There is something decidedly wrong with judging the wealthy. In fact, all good things come down to men from God. Job was rich, and Abraham was rich as were many OT saints.

God put man on earth, in which He put all the minerals, ores, precious metals, coal, oil, natural gas, along with water and all manner of plant and animal life to sustain men, for which this earth was created. For our society to continue to exist, we need to continue to take advantage of those gifts.

Those natural resources need to be managed wisely, but it certainly is not wise for men to turn their backs on His blessing. I suppose men have become blinded to the truth in the same way they are blinded to His providence. Hence, they have lost the ability to reason in real terms, and in their groping about for meaning, they have errantly begun to worship the created, rather than the Creator. That's why geeky government officials get ideas in their heads that are ridiculous on their face. We have all the fuel we will ever need in the ground beneath our feet. But no, we got to go solar to save mother earth. :please:

But as usual, you'd rather chase around and change the subject when you cannot deal with hard evidence put in front of you. I think you suffer from a case of secular humanism. When God says the seasons will continue, heat and cold will continue, seedtime and harvest will continue etc., that means this idea of world ending global warming is a hoax.

[The Urban Sombrero]

There is nothing wrong with wealth. There is something decidedly wrong with judging the wealthy. In fact, all good things come down to men from God. Job was rich, and Abraham was rich as were many OT saints.

God put man on earth, in which He put all the minerals, ores, precious metals, coal, oil, natural gas, along with water and all manner of plant and animal life to sustain men, for which this earth was created. For our society to continue to exist, we need to continue to take advantage of those gifts.

Those natural resources need to be managed wisely, but it certainly is not wise for men to turn their backs on His blessing. I suppose men have become blinded to the truth in the same way they are blinded to His providence. Hence, they have lost the ability to reason in real terms, and in their groping about for meaning, they have errantly begun to worship the created, rather than the Creator. That's why geeky government officials get ideas in their heads that are ridiculous on their face. We have all the fuel we will ever need in the ground beneath our feet. But no, we got to go solar to save mother earth. :please:

But as usual, you'd rather chase around and change the subject when you cannot deal with hard evidence put in front of you. I think you suffer from a case of secular humanism. When God says the seasons will continue, heat and cold will continue, seedtime and harvest will continue etc., that means this idea of world ending global warming is a hoax.

Greed is a "seven deadly." Sloth is also. You fixate on one, and think any mention of the other is a criticism of wealth.

"The end of the world" is not at odds with accelerated climate change, and that does not change simply because you need it to. Right now, in many places on this planet, there is no seedtime and no harvest. This does not make God a liar. I am no more a secular humanist than you are a moderate politically. "All of creation groans in travail" because of the sinfulness of Man, and greed, covetousness, lust for power...these are major factors.

[TheRealThing]

Greed is a "seven deadly." Sloth is also. You fixate on one, and think any mention of the other is a criticism of wealth.

"The end of the world" is not at odds with accelerated climate change, and that does not change simply because you need it to. Right now, in many places on this planet, there is no seedtime and no harvest. This does not make God a liar. I am no more a secular humanist than you are a moderate politically. "All of creation groans in travail" because of the sinfulness of Man, and greed, covetousness, lust for power...these are major factors.

So, you're saying now that because you can't distinguish between arid desert climates and fertile crop lands, that climate change must be given plausible acceptability? There have always been places on the planet that have not been capable of sustaining crops for the entire recorded history of man. I'll buy the creation groaneth in travail thing, but I'm not buying that means global warming is even definable, much less real.

It is interesting though. Your level of irritability shot up in defense of climate change. You are seemingly even willing to compromise on Scripture before you'll back up on climate change. If it was real, God would not have spoken so plainly on the subject. It's a hoax. And again, it was the climatologists who came up the end of days, sky is falling impending doom associated with the continued use of fossil fuels. Not Scripture.

[catdoggy]

So, you're saying now that because you can't distinguish between arid desert climates and fertile crop lands, that climate change must be given plausible acceptability? There have always been places on the planet that have not been capable of sustaining crops for the entire recorded history of man. I'll buy the creation groaneth in travail thing, but I'm not buying that means global warming is even definable, much less real.

It is interesting though. Your level of irritability shot up in defense of climate change. You are seemingly even willing to compromise on Scripture before you'll back up on climate change. If it was real, God would not have spoken so plainly on the subject. It's a hoax. And again, it was the climatologists who came up the end of days, sky is falling impending doom associated with the continued use of fossil fuels. Not Scripture.

Attacking someone's faith is below the belt. You should be ashamed. What credibility you had is now gone.

[TheRealThing]

Attacking someone's faith is below the belt. You should be ashamed. What credibility you had is now gone.

If I had attacked his faith, I would be ashamed. But I'll tell you what, if you can define exactly how it was that I attacked his faith, I will take it under advisement. If an apology is owed, I will happily offer one.

[catdoggy]

"You are seemingly even willing to compromise on Scripture before you'll back up on climate change."

[TheRealThing]

"You are seemingly even willing to compromise on Scripture before you'll back up on climate change."

That dogcat, is no attack on his faith. I posted the Scripture in which God Himself promises things will go on without end. That Scripture mentions specifically seedtime and harvest. Sombrero came back to challenge that Scripture saying; "Right now, in many places on this planet, there is no seedtime and no harvest."

Now, either God has that wrong, or Sombrero is wrong. I know who I think has it wrong and It certainly isn't God. But, in saying all of that in no way did I ever challenge the validity of his faith. That is his business, and his alone, and I nor anyone else has the right to judge him to that end.

[The Urban Sombrero]

That dogcat, is no attack on his faith. I posted the Scripture in which God Himself promises things will go on without end. That Scripture mentions specifically seedtime and harvest. Sombrero came back to challenge that Scripture saying; "Right now, in many places on this planet, there is no seedtime and no harvest."

Now, either God has that wrong, or Sombrero is wrong. I know who I think has it wrong and It certainly isn't God. But, in saying all of that in no way did I ever challenge the validity of his faith. That is his business, and his alone, and I nor anyone else has the right to judge him to that end.

The main thrust of my position is that a belief that accelerated climate change is related to the Industrial Age does not, as a natural course, require one to believe that God will be proven a liar, or necessitate one not believing it will be God who ends this present world order. One does not have to logically follow the other.

[TheRealThing]

The main thrust of my position is that a belief that accelerated climate change is related to the Industrial Age does not, as a natural course, require one to believe that God will be proven a liar, or necessitate one not believing it will be God who ends this present world order. One does not have to logically follow the other.

Whew. Are you going to admit that climatologists are predicting that man's end is nigh due to the threat of global warming or not?

[The Urban Sombrero]

Whew. Are you going to admit that climatologists are predicting that man's end is nigh due to the threat of global warming or not?

God will determine the end of days, and the creation will groan in travail until then, a travail that many scientists believe will lead to an inhospitable planet, though others do not necessarily hold with the extinction of man, but with radically altered conditions, requiring many adaptations.

[TheRealThing]

God will determine the end of days, and the creation will groan in travail until then, a travail that many scientists believe will lead to an inhospitable planet, though others do not necessarily hold with the extinction of man, but with radically altered conditions, requiring many adaptations.

Yeah, I'm well aware of the Biblical accounts of the time of the end. Man will come within a gnats eyelash of total extinction through war, plagues, and famine. The end of all flesh would at that time come to pass but for the intervention of God Himself. But according to Obama, global warming is our biggest threat. I don't see where arguing the point any further would cause you to concede. I just wanted to see if you would accept God's Word on the matter.