[The Urban Sombrero]

With some time off, and based on challenges presented here on BGR, I stopped off in Detroit for a couple days and on one of those days managed to have lunch with Saad Almasmari, a council member of Hamtramck, an extremely diverse community of roughly 22,000 just outside Detroit. It is, at least as of 2015, the only place in America with a majority Muslim city council.

What my new friend Saad said to me was that "the US Constitution and state and local laws are the roof for us." He mentioned he knew that the LGBT community of Hamtramck was concerned, but that fears of discrimination against them from the majority council would prove needless.

It gave me hope. America is a great country, maybe the best nation to encourage and create oppprtunities for immigrants to become part of the economy and culture of their new home that has ever existed. But, that work is not easy and is never finished.

Finally, we spoke of the inherent dignity that dwells within each human being, that it is not ours, as mere mortals ourselves, to deny or denigrate with hatred or violence or assertions of some special superiority.

[jetpilot]

That's the minor league. If you are traveling great distances to seek out Muslim leaders to have lunch and trade ideas with, maybe a trip to Syria or Saudi Arabia is in order.

[The Urban Sombrero]

That's the minor league. If you are traveling great distances to seek out Muslim leaders to have lunch and trade ideas with, maybe a trip to Syria or Saudi Arabia is in order.

You have misread my intentions. While I am deeply troubled by Saudi Arabia's "power elites" cozying up with jihadism, and deeply saddened by the dangerous mess and humanitarian disaster that is Syria, I wanted to, albeit briefly, get a glimpse of what democracy might look like if a majority of American citizens who happened to be Muslim were on a city council.

[jetpilot]

:goofy:

[The Urban Sombrero]

:goofy:

In your view, can a Muslim immigrant be a good American citizen?

[Bob Seger]

:goofy:

:lmao:

I think you pretty much summed it all up with that JP...

He's got democratic presidential candidate credentials, don't you think?

[Bob Seger]

With some time off, and based on challenges presented here on BGR, I stopped off in Detroit for a couple days and on one of those days managed to have lunch with Saad Almasmari, a council member of Hamtramck, an extremely diverse community of roughly 22,000 just outside Detroit. It is, at least as of 2015, the only place in America with a majority Muslim city council.

What my new friend Saad said to me was that "the US Constitution and state and local laws are the roof for us." He mentioned he knew that the LGBT community of Hamtramck was concerned, but that fears of discrimination against them from the majority council would prove needless.

It gave me hope. America is a great country, maybe the best nation to encourage and create oppprtunities for immigrants to become part of the economy and culture of their new home that has ever existed. But, that work is not easy and is never finished.

Finally, we spoke of the inherent dignity that dwells within each human being, that it is not ours, as mere mortals ourselves, to deny or denigrate with hatred or violence or assertions of some special superiority.

Discuss that with one of your ISIS buddies, and report back to us as to how that went, (that is if he doesn't cut your head off before you leave the room).

[The Urban Sombrero]

Discuss that with one of your ISIS buddies, and report back to us as to how that went, (that is if he doesn't cut your head off before you leave the room).

For you to connect ISIS "buddies" with Saad Almismari is ridiculous and offensive, and, if one understands our Constitution at all, soundly unamerican.

[Bob Seger]

For you to connect ISIS "buddies" with Saad Almismari is ridiculous and offensive, and, if one understands our Constitution at all, soundly unamerican.

Here's the hypocritical part. For you libs, to even mention "American" is "un-American" and "offensive".

And by the way, who even mentioned or implied that your buddy was an ISIS sympathizer? I sure didn't.

[The Urban Sombrero]

Here's the hypocritical part. For you libs, to even mention "American" is "un-American" and "offensive".

And by the way, who even mentioned or implied that your buddy was an ISIS sympathizer? I sure didn't.

"It is unamerican to hold a political philosophy other than mine" suggest all anybody needs to know about why the art of politics has devolved into entrenched politicos masquerading as patriots.

[Bob Seger]

"It is unamerican to hold a political philosophy other than mine" suggest all anybody needs to know about why the art of politics has devolved into entrenched politicos masquerading as patriots.

To oppose the intentions of our founding fathers is un-American and offensive.

[The Urban Sombrero]

To oppose the intentions of our founding fathers is un-American and offensive.

Surely, surely, you are not implying that, say, a Thomas Jefferson, man of reason that he was, would find your way of debating here, and your ideas here presented, as indicative of his intentions?

[Bob Seger]

Surely, surely, you are not implying that, say, a Thomas Jefferson, man of reason that he was, would find your way of debating here, and your ideas here presented, as indicative of his intentions?

I could certainly say he wouldn't yours...nicker:

[The Urban Sombrero]

I could certainly say he wouldn't yours...nicker:

Actually, you might want to re-read your Jefferson.

[Bob Seger]

Actually, you might want to re-read your Jefferson.

I've read you (and your ilk), there is no need for me to re-read him.

[The Urban Sombrero]

I've read you (and your ilk), there is no need for me to re-read him.

Of course, your use of "re-read" is interesting.

[Bob Seger]

Of course, your use of "re-read" is interesting.

Define "interesting"....

See, we could do this all day.

Rather sophomoric though, wouldn't you say?....:biggrin:

[The Urban Sombrero]

Define "interesting"....

See, we could do this all day.

Rather sophomoric though, wouldn't you say?....:biggrin:

In the sense used above, I am directly questioning how much DIRECT source material of Jefferson's you've read.

[Bob Seger]

In the sense used above, I am directly questioning how much DIRECT source material of Jefferson's you've read.

And how much DIRECT source material of Jefferson's it is that you have read?

Love-30.

[The Urban Sombrero]

And how much DIRECT source material of Jefferson's it is that you have read?

Love-30.

"The Thomas Jefferson Reader" published by Konecky & Konecky in 2003. I recommend it.

[WideRight05]

Doesn't seem much different from the RNC that held a Muslim prayer.

[Bob Seger]

"The Thomas Jefferson Reader" published by Konecky & Konecky in 2003. I recommend it.

Quote a few verses for us.:popcorn:


Anyways, I've been to Monticello and have a nickel in my pocket. So, I would say that I'm just as much of an expert as you are...:insane:....

[The Urban Sombrero]

Quote a few verses!!



I've been to Monticello, so I would say that I'm just as much of an expert as you are.

"Human beings would rather suffer evil, while evils are suffrable, than to right themselves from the forms to which they have become accustomed." TJ from TTJR

Who said anything about being an expert?

[Bob Seger]

Doesn't seem much different from the RNC that held a Muslim prayer.

Hey!! Shouldn't you be over there in the Highlands football threads.:biggrin:

[WideRight05]

Hey!! Shouldn't you be over there in the Highlands football threads.:biggrin:

I am offended nicker:

[Bob Seger]

I am offended nicker:

I don't blame you....If I were accused of being a Highlands football supporter, that would offend me too.:biggrin:

[TheRealThing]

"Human beings would rather suffer evil, while evils are suffrable, than to right themselves from the forms to which they have become accustomed." TJ from TTJR

Who said anything about being an expert?

The text you cite is a decidedly small snippet of a larger thought that Jefferson was trying to develop, and as fate would have it, one that I have cited on here at least 3 times that I can remember. That larger thought is that we ought not run over familiar forms of government for light and transient or faddish social aberrations. It is much better to tough it out than to demand of what is in this case some 300 million people, that they just roll over on 300 years of normalcy, just so that the libs can develop yet another 31 flavors of gender. I hate it when the best intentions of the founders are slimed in such manner.

[The Urban Sombrero]

The text you cite is a decidedly small snippet of a larger thought that Jefferson was trying to develop, and as fate would have it, one that I have cited on here at least 3 times that I can remember. That larger thought is that we ought not run over familiar forms of government for light and transient or faddish social aberrations. It is much better to tough it out than to demand of what is in this case some 300 million people, that they just roll over on 300 years of normalcy, just so that the libs can develop yet another 31 flavors of gender. I hate it when the best intentions of the founders are slimed in such manner.

I was asked to quote Jefferson, not in support or negation of any point of political debate, but simply because I was asked to "quote a few bars." If there is any "slime," it is what you just did.

[TheRealThing]

I was asked to quote Jefferson, not in support or negation of any point of political debate, but simply because I was asked to "quote a few bars." If there is any "slime," it is what you just did.

Nope. You cited Jefferson and in so doing, you suggested that he would align himself with your interpretations of the founder's intentions and against those of Seger's. I totally disagree with you on that basis.

Seger is right. The libs' secular humanistic rationales, of which you seem to be a true believer, are vastly different from Jefferson. And let's get real, Seger is also right in his assessment of your desire to change America into a vast wasteland of compromise based on 'light and transient causes.' I found it blissfully ironic that you chose to call up his reference to what Reagan would have termed "staying the course," or his advice to resist change based on social attitudes, which history proves often do morph into temporary stupidity. Jefferson understood clearly that the character of God does not change, nor does His admonitions or His law, and certainly not His coming Judgment.

That is the model of his advice, stay the course.

[The Urban Sombrero]

Nope. You cited Jefferson and in so doing, you suggested that he would align himself with your interpretations of the founder's intentions and against those of Seger's. I totally disagree with you on that basis.

Seger is right. The libs' secular humanistic rationales, of which you seem to be a true believer, are vastly different from Jefferson. And let's get real, Seger is also right in his assessment of your desire to change America into a vast wasteland of compromise based on 'light and transient causes.' I found it blissfully ironic that you chose to call up his reference to what Reagan would have termed "staying the course," or his advice to resist change based on social attitudes which do often morph into temporary stupidity. Jefferson understood clearly that the character of God does not change, nor does His admonitions or His law, and certainly not His coming Judgment.

In Jefferson's rendering for his devotional, anything unexplainable by human reason was edited out. I quoted Jefferson because I was asked to, and your cocksure, revisionist bs notwithstanding, the quote was chosen at random from the reader and not for any debate purpose other than to let BS know I wasn't bluffing about having read a decent amount of primary source material. You don't get to wade in, "Donnie" right in the middle of the story. "You're out of your element."