[Coach_Owens87]

CO87: Less People Mining ????

Reclamation You can say they are filled in and reclaimed, and I wont argue that some are, but a lot aren't. All I can go by is pictures of the land before and after mining, a lot of the pictures I see just show brown, barren land. Gravity works against you, you cant completely put the land back, it's impossible.

Home values[B]I know the procedure that a homeowner can take when around a blasting site, i've studied it all. You can give me all the crap you want about coal companies paying to fix the damages. It does sound nice, and the coal companies have got a good setup, everything would seem to work right, but it doesn't. In a lot of cases, when coal companies set up small subsidiaries, they file bankruptcy after mining, and whatever damage they caused is left unattended. This happens a lot, and in the other cases calling in a complaint gets you no where, it's just an endless cycle. Coal companies don't care what damage they cause, all they care about is getting money, no matter who, or what the damage in the process.[/B]


[B]I dont know why you put ??? for less people mining, you even admitted that was true, but just to restate, mining jobs have decreased by 50% in eastern ky and West Virginia.[/B]
90% of mined land not used[B]I figured you would try to slam my stats, I hate to break you're heart but it didn't come from an environmental site, although I'm sure they have the stats too. The statistics I got came from the UK department of agriculture.[/B]

The sewage running into the water could have been an issue 20 years ago, but not now. The majority of people now have running water, a few rural homes may not have it, but most do. What is found in the water is mercury (found just underneath the surface, which is released during blasting), zinc, lead, ammonium nitrate ( which is used in blasting), and others. Some of this does come from waste running into the water, but not all of it. If all of that was coming from human waste, there shouldn't be anyone alive in eastern ky. It's really sad that people here are poor and some don't have the luxury of sewage and running water. The coal companies use that fact to blame others for their mess.

Here are some good sites that aren't by environmental "whackos" that have some really good information and stats about the coal counties. I know you will just glaze over them, throw them off, and go back to your "coal websites", and bash me for using so called environmental sites.

Did you know that coal mining is responsible for burring and damaging more streams than any other form of pollution? That doesnt stack up well for your argument.

http://windpub.com/dirtymoney.htm
http://arri.osmre.gov/KYResearch.htm

You hit the nail on the head with "all I can go by is pictures of land before and after mining" the photographs show you what they want you to see, do you know the details, were they finished with the reclamation or what time of the year were the photos taken.
I never said you could put the land back to it's original contour, most coal companies try to reach 85% of the original contour.

So you know the procedures a homeowner has around a blasting site, and you say you've studied it all. Well sonny you may want to go back to study hall and hit the books one more time, because I have dealt with blasting problems before and if we were at fault we did pay for damages, most of the property owners agreed to have the pre blast surveys, and sometimes it showed that the damage was done after we started blasting and sometimes it proved that the damage was there before we started blasting. In West Virginia if a property owner calls in a complaint if it's blasting or something else a inspector has to investigate and file a report on his findings.

Now CO87 we've went down this same road a couple of months ago in another thread, I know you've heard of the Applicant Violator System in case you've forgot let me refresh your memory, before a permit is issued the Name and Social Security No. of the owner/owners and company officers are entered into this program, now every coal company has to put up a bond for each permit they receive, if they file bankruptcy and don't reclaim the distrubed areas the bond is forfeited, the names of the owner/owners and company officers are flagged in the Applicant Violator System and they will never be able to obtain another permit in their names or be a officer, even if they start another company or go to work for someone else.

Don't give me that "Coal Companies don't care about anyone but themselfs" bit as I told you in the other thread (Compare Bush's House to Al Gores) about the services that some coal companies provide to the surrounding communities. If any one is interested they can go the (Compare Bush's House to Al Gores thread) and read some of the same information that is being posted on this thread.

The question marks were my mistake, I intended to come back and comment,

So why all the fuss about decreasing jobs in the coal mines, like I stated before new techology enables more coal to be mined with fewer people, just like more cars can be built with fewer people and so on. Are you wanting us to go back to the days of the pick and shovel, while were at it let's do away with the assembly line and bring back the old crank phones with party lines.

Straight sewer pipes are not a problem Like Football Widow said "where have you been they are everywhere" you need to get out of the Big City every once in a while and revisit you roots. What does having running water in your house have to do with running raw sewage straight into the creek?

Sorry to bust you bubble but, we've been surface and underground mining on the same property (+/- 40,000 acres) the last 15 years and we have never detected any amount of mercury, zinc, lead or ammonium nitrate in any of our water samples taken from our ponds, streams.

As far as your web sites I'll try to look at them tomarrow it already past my bed time.[/QUOTE]

The photos I spoke of where taken after reclamation, and during the spring, so everything was in full bloom, all that could be seen along the ridges where barren land. Some sites had fescue grass, there root system fights against those of the native trees and makes it nearly impossible for a forest to return.

I need to get out of the big city, lol, last time I checked Hindman Ky was not a "big city", Ive lived in eastern KY all my life, Ive never left my roots.

I know that companies are supposed to put things back, but don't kid yourself and say that they do. Yes some do, but a lot of companies don't. Many companies open subsidiaries, mine a place, and then shut down and move on to another site and do the same thing. I know you say they are flagged and that they have to put up bond money, I know all of that, they put up money, a majority of the amount required to reclaim before they mine, if they shut down, the state then takes over and reclaims. The whole crap about not being able to mine again is bull, yes the subsidiary cant mine, but the head company just moves on.


You say you never tested any water that contained mercury, zinc, or lead, thats kind of hard to believe since I took water from the creek in front of my house and fount all of those elements in a chemical lab test at my college. MY professor took water samples from creeks in three different counties and discovered the same thing. All of these streams are fed by headwaters that have been affected by mining. I looked at samples that where evaluated by the epa, and other agencies and they fount many of the same things. If all companies where as clean as yours I wouldn't have anything to complain about.

The point I was trying to make with running water is that things have changed here, years ago many people didnt have running water, or sewage, they drew water from wells, and dumped waste anywhere they could. people run sewage into the creek to keep from paying for a septic tank. Getting more jobs, an education opportunites to this region would end most of those problems.

You can give me all the rules, and regulations from the coal companies that you wont. You can also say that I want to end all mining jobs, and scare people into believing you, it's what you guys do best, but It doesn't matter, I know the rules, I'm just trying to tell you that a lot of coal companies aren't obeying laws and trying to get a good citizen award.

Yeah yeah yeah, coal companies do great things for the communities, the only reason they do that is to keep a good image with a community that is already feared into thinking life cannot go on without them. Thats like saying the mob done great things for the communities in Chicago, or that the terrorist who give money for schools in their region are good people. Them donating money, and doing community projects does not make up for the atrocities they are causing in Appalachia.