[plantmanky]

Here we go......

[TheRealThing]

^^ "It is not about what’s going on in Washington, D.C., and it’s not about right versus left, folks. It’s about right versus wrong.” ------Andy Beshear :please:
https://www.bizjournals.com/louisville/n...-race.html


Like father like son I suppose. Rocky Adkins was the lone contender from the Dem side with a glimmer if you ask me. And we should get one thing straight from the start of this. The current governor, nor anyone under his charge is guilty of misdeed with regard to Kentucky's miserably underfunded teachers pension fund. If anyone could credibly demonstrate otherwise it would certainly be the State Attorney General. From which to date, I have heard nada. The Governor did however in responsible fashion, point the problem out.

irateSho shoot the messenger and problem solved!!

[WideRight05]

^^ "It is not about what’s going on in Washington, D.C., and it’s not about right versus left, folks. It’s about right versus wrong.” ------Andy Beshear :please:
https://www.bizjournals.com/louisville/n...-race.html


Like father like son I suppose. Rocky Adkins was the lone contender from the Dem side with a glimmer if you ask me. And we should get one thing straight from the start of this. The current governor, nor anyone under his charge is guilty of misdeed with regard to Kentucky's miserably underfunded teachers pension fund. If anyone could credibly demonstrate otherwise it would certainly be the State Attorney General. From which to date, I have heard nada. The Governor did however in responsible fashion, point the problem out.

irateSho shoot the messenger and problem solved!!

One term of Andy Beshear would be scary. He makes Steve Beshear look like a conservative. I was hoping we would have Rocky win the primary so we would at least have a hardcore pro-life candidate vs. a mostly pro-life candidate.

How often in the Bible times do you see someone make a load of promises for turning away from God only for it to be a trap? I feel that’s what Beshear is doing. All these promises of fixing the pension system and how he’s going to have the backs of the teachers. Meanwhile, some will actually be struggling with the question of whether to take a pro-abortion candidate believing his lies about the ability to fix the pensions - even if he could, it would still come at the expense of the unborn. A decision that many “Christian” teachers are struggling with.

[plantmanky]

We are a month away, who you got?

[TheRealThing]

^^ I got Bevin plantman.

As stated above, the lion's share of whatever controversy continues to swirl around the governorship of MR Bevin is manufactured blame for the situation he inherited at the hand of foregoing administrations. Other than two four year terms for Republicans Nunn and Fletcher, since Dec of 1947 Kentucky has been led entirely by Democrats. I don't know how sensible people could blame the incoming Republican Governor for the sins of the past, but that is exactly what has happened.

Saying that, the problem with the teachers pension fund is no less real and nobody wants to see a group of people or even one individual suffer loss where his/her pension is concerned. That fact stands on it's face. But the problem Kentucky teachers have is twofold. First, reports have it that their pension funds were mishandled, possibly even squandered for rather ignoble cause. And second, on an ongoing basis they were lied to or misled if you prefer, as to the health of their fund. Put it like this-- The man whom has made the lifelong mistake of stringing along his creditors, and, owing if nothing else to the encroachment of the laws of mathematics, though continually promising faithfully to pay his debt, will nonetheless eventually default to those creditors. It's math folks. One can only rob Peter to pay Paul for so long. The teachers were promised-- faithfully. But then there is that nasty problem with the math.

So, where the teachers are concerned. It strikes me as the ultimate in irony to think the teachers of Kentucky refuse to admit the truth. After being misled for decades at long last a man of conscience comes along, and under his administration state audits reveal the sad state of affairs as to the entirety of Kentucky's unfunded liabilities. So, what did the educators of our state do? Did they become incensed with those who actually squandered their pension funds and not admit the fact to them? Nope, they got mad at the only guy (Matt Bevin) with sufficient integrity to be honest with them as to what happened to the pension fund.

So I don't know how this will all turn out, but it is beyond logical to me to think that Kentucky's best examples of lucid thought, those in fact entrusted in no small degree to shape the minds of our own precious children, would insist on cozying right back up to the very devil that defrauded them in the first place. :yikes:

[TheRealThing]

In 1967 Kentucky elected Louie Nunn Governor. By 1971 MR Nunn had seen through his promise to pass the Kentucky Pension Protection Act, The result, as of 1997 Kentucky primary state pension funds were funded at 127% and secondary pension plans were funded at 98%.

Democratic Governor Paul Patton repealed the PPA and pension funds very rapidly vaporized from that point forward. The by the time Beashear arrived the remainder of those hollowed out Kentucky pension plans were invested very questionably according to reports and viola. One gets the fine mess in which Kentucky finds herself.

Anybody mad at Democrats about all that? NOPE, not from what I have seen. They want Bevin's political head on a pike though. But in Dems defense they have been conditioned to think all that's necessary is to raise taxes. Again.

[Cardfan1]

In 1967 Kentucky elected Louie Nunn Governor. By 1971 MR Nunn had seen through his promise to pass the Kentucky Pension Protection Act, The result, as of 1997 Kentucky primary state pension funds were funded at 127% and secondary pension plans were funded at 98%.

Democratic Governor Paul Patton repealed the PPA and pension funds very rapidly vaporized from that point forward. The by the time Beashear arrived the remainder of those hollowed out Kentucky pension plans were invested very questionably according to reports and viola. One gets the fine mess in which Kentucky finds herself.

Anybody mad at Democrats about all that? NOPE, not from what I have seen. They want Bevin's political head on a pike though. But in Dems defense they have been conditioned to think all that's necessary is to raise taxes. Again.

Bevin created his own problem with his language. He spent his time trying to create a tough talking Trump-like persona, but he forgot he was insulting hardworking educators of the state of Kentucky. Many of which supported his party nationally.

None of the teachers had anything to do with state investments of their pension funds, and many of them were not even in the profession or possibly out of middle school at that time. Asking them to hate democrats that mishandled their pensions is silly.

[TheRealThing]

Bevin created his own problem with his language. He spent his time trying to create a tough talking Trump-like persona, but he forgot he was insulting hardworking educators of the state of Kentucky. Many of which supported his party nationally.

None of the teachers had anything to do with state investments of their pension funds, and many of them were not even in the profession or possibly out of middle school at that time. Asking them to hate democrats that mishandled their pensions is silly.

Nobody ever asked teachers or anybody else to hate Democrats. Democrats did however mishandle those pension funds and IMHO, to expect teachers to be able to understand that fact is not to establish too high a standard. Funds BTW, which were by law once protected from being mindlessly squandered. That is until Paul Patton repealed the Pension Protection Act. Democrats seem to have a problem with mishandling money all across this land if one would care to take notice.

But now the once healthy fund is on its ear and for relief, it's back to the tax well Dems want to take us. According to reports, between 1996 and 2016 the KEA had collected over 2.7 Billion dollars from the membership. What happened to the money? Matt Bevin might have shot his mouth off a little, but it was long after this state's retirement obligations came under threat. It's at least A LITTLE incumbent upon the people who worked for and contributed that money to be somewhat proactive in issues of oversight. Wouldn't you say? Whether one is a Democrat or a Republican it's a red flag moment when pension protection laws get repealed. In modern times misguided politicians have lustily eyed ALL of this land's pension reserves, and at both the state and federal levels.

As yesterday's election clearly demonstrates we can get mad at government all we want, but voters are the ones who establish what form of government we actually have.

[64SUR]

Whoops!! Wrong thread who won :biglmao:

[Cardfan1]

Nobody ever asked teachers or anybody else to hate Democrats. Democrats did however mishandle those pension funds and IMHO, to expect teachers to be able to understand that fact is not to establish too high a standard. Funds BTW, which were by law once protected from being mindlessly squandered. That is until Paul Patton repealed the Pension Protection Act. Democrats seem to have a problem with mishandling money all across this land if one would care to take notice.

But now the once healthy fund is on its ear and for relief, it's back to the tax well Dems want to take us. According to reports, between 1996 and 2016 the KEA had collected over 2.7 Billion dollars from the membership. What happened to the money? Matt Bevin might have shot his mouth off a little, but it was long after this state's retirement obligations came under threat. It's at least A LITTLE incumbent upon the people who worked for and contributed that money to be somewhat proactive in issues of oversight. Wouldn't you say? Whether one is a Democrat or a Republican it's a red flag moment when pension protection laws get repealed. In modern times misguided politicians have lustily eyed ALL of this land's pension reserves, and at both the state and federal levels.

As yesterday's election clearly demonstrates we can get mad at government all we want, but voters are the ones who establish what form of government we actually have.

Looking back and placing blame is moot at this point. Bevin and the legislature were trying to scam teachers out of the pension that was promised to them and then trying to do what you just did and say “you should have elected different politicians.”
It got him beat in a state he should have won by 20 pts.

Now the burden of repayment can go on the taxpayer that benefited from the usage of pension funds to support the state, so politicians could keep constituents happy. It won’t be popular and the legislature will not be able to dole out those nice tax breaks to the upper class. But it is what it is.

[TheRealThing]

Looking back and placing blame is moot at this point. Bevin and the legislature were trying to scam teachers out of the pension that was promised to them and then trying to do what you just did and say “you should have elected different politicians.”
It got him beat in a state he should have won by 20 pts.

Now the burden of repayment can go on the taxpayer that benefited from the usage of pension funds to support the state, so politicians could keep constituents happy. It won’t be popular and the legislature will not be able to dole out those nice tax breaks to the upper class. But it is what it is.

True but maybe what it is, isn't quite what you think it is. Republicans have a 29 to 9 majority in the Senate and a 61 to 39 majority in the House. The new Governor will have to get by those guys first. 7 out of 8 statewide races went to Republicans yesterday so 2020 isn't exactly a lock sure flip for Dem's future hopes either. Further, those 28 thousand libertarian votes that tipped the scales won't be around at that time to wreak havoc. I will say that I just do not understand the reasoning behind conservatives and independents voting libertarian. Why the dodge? I mean, just go ahead and vote Democrat.

But you're right to say that Bevin should have won. His mouth contributed to his pending loss, but the things he said weren't exactly spoken in a vacuum. A lot of nasty things have been said by a lot of Kentucky politicians since 2016.

[Cardfan1]

True but maybe what it is, isn't quite what you think it is. Republicans have a 29 to 9 majority in the Senate and a 61 to 39 majority in the House. The new Governor will have to get by those guys first. 7 out of 8 statewide races went to Republicans yesterday so 2020 isn't exactly a lock sure flip for Dem's future hopes either. Further, those 28 thousand libertarian votes that tipped the scales won't be around at that time to wreak havoc. I will say that I just do not understand the reasoning behind conservatives and independents voting libertarian. Why the dodge? I mean, just go ahead and vote Democrat.

But you're right to say that Bevin should have won. His mouth contributed to his pending loss, but the things he said weren't exactly spoken in a vacuum. A lot of nasty things have been said by a lot of Kentucky politicians since 2016.

Then I guess the can will be kicked back down the road again and this time both parties can share blame.

I would like to see some changes in the pension system to make it solvent as well as some new funding. That will take the governor-elect and the republican controlled legislature to work together. If Beshear can prove he is not involved with the vitriolity of nationwide politics something may get done.

Same thing happened in national election. Gary Johnson carried votes for two bad candidates.

I have to believe all these bad things we hear these days are because we have access to them. Constant news cycle and social media has given the American citizen the real dirty business of politics. Unfortunately, the sentiments have spilled into daily life.

[TheRealThing]

Then I guess the can will be kicked back down the road again and this time both parties can share blame.

I would like to see some changes in the pension system to make it solvent as well as some new funding. That will take the governor-elect and the republican controlled legislature to work together. If Beshear can prove he is not involved with the vitriolity of nationwide politics something may get done.

Same thing happened in national election. Gary Johnson carried votes for two bad candidates.

I have to believe all these bad things we hear these days are because we have access to them. Constant news cycle and social media has given the American citizen the real dirty business of politics. Unfortunately, the sentiments have spilled into daily life.

Well now you have hit on the crux of the matter and, the central point of my argument. After decades of decline with Dems at the helm, I regard with irony how one could think Andy is different? Much less that he is even remotely qualified by virtue of experience or vision, to fix the problem. Especially considering his open support of the issues of social justice. Not the least of which being a full throated endorsement of sanctuary cities. Louisville and/or Lexington maybe?

I know how important one's retirement really is and I have nothing but compassion for this States' employees whose retirements are in jeopardy because politicians felt it okay to play fast and loose with their money. It's more than wrong. My wife read me a statement big Steve Beshear actually made on this matter via facebook yesterday. Laughing and saying "We took their money but they voted for my son anyway. lol" Not exactly the statement of a man beset with concern if you ask me. And I will say to Andy, his Dad or anybody else--- gambling money is dirty money paid for by broken hearts and destroyed lives. Do people of integrity really want to rely on the misery of others for their substance? As things stand the state is inundated with the concerns of caring for thousands of precious and innocent children taken for compassion's sake from abusive situations. Past the moral implications going strictly by the math, deriving funding from gambling is an idea which will fail in the best of scenarios.

I don't have a problem with Gary Johnson et-al running for office. My problem is with those who vote for them. If these folks think their votes are being memorialized somehow, despite the fact that third party candidates have zero chance of being elected, I would submit they're right. But not for the reason they may think. We have a country to run here and there is One, Whom does take notice of our votes. The Lord. Conservatives and Independents need not delude themselves with thinking they have in any way distinguished themselves by voting third party. These days are days for the awakened pragmatist. Shooting straight up in the air has the effect of bringing fire back down upon oneself. Their faux indignation is not only futile, but more importantly self destructive.

I agree with you 100% about the news cycle, we're awash. For my money though, I'd rather know the truth than to be blissfully ignorant. The blissful ignorance of the post war 50's and 60's on the part of the citizenry of this land sort of programmed folks not to worry too much about taking an active part of government. And things were okay during that time for the most part because most people were morally responsible. But such detachment provided the very umbrella under which our present state of corruption flourished. If you've read my posts you know that I haven't trusted the news media since the Reagan Era. I saw them morph from laying suggestion between the lines through inflection and tone, to overt propagandizing. Today they push a political agenda with pride. Conservatives do not dislike or hate liberals. But they are charged by the knowledge of the truth, to point to that truth. It's done from concern, not superiority, and certainly not bias.

[Cardfan1]

Well now you have hit on the crux of the matter and, the central point of my argument. After decades of decline with Dems at the helm, I regard with irony how one could think Andy is different? Much less that he is even remotely qualified by virtue of experience or vision, to fix the problem. Especially considering his open support of the issues of social justice. Not the least of which being a full throated endorsement of sanctuary cities. Louisville and/or Lexington maybe?

I know how important one's retirement really is and I have nothing but compassion for this States' employees whose retirements are in jeopardy because politicians felt it okay to play fast and loose with their money. It's more than wrong. My wife read me a statement big Steve Beshear actually made on this matter via facebook yesterday. Laughing and saying "We took their money but they voted for my son anyway. lol" Not exactly the statement of a man beset with concern if you ask me. And I will say to Andy, his Dad or anybody else--- gambling money is dirty money paid for by broken hearts and destroyed lives. Do people of integrity really want to rely on the misery of others for their substance? As things stand the state is inundated with the concerns of caring for thousands of precious and innocent children taken for compassion's sake from abusive situations. Past the moral implications going strictly by the math, deriving funding from gambling is an idea which will fail in the best of scenarios.

I don't have a problem with Gary Johnson et-al running for office. My problem is with those who vote for them. If these folks think their votes are being memorialized somehow, despite the fact that third party candidates have zero chance of being elected, I would submit they're right. But not for the reason they may think. We have a country to run here and there is One, Whom does take notice of our votes. The Lord. Conservatives and Independents need not delude themselves with thinking they have in any way distinguished themselves by voting third party. These days are days for the awakened pragmatist. Shooting straight up in the air has the effect of bringing fire back down upon oneself. Their faux indignation is not only futile, but more importantly self destructive.

I agree with you 100% about the news cycle, we're awash. For my money though, I'd rather know the truth than to be blissfully ignorant. The blissful ignorance of the post war 50's and 60's on the part of the citizenry of this land sort of programmed folks not to worry too much about taking an active part of government. And things were okay during that time for the most part because most people were morally responsible. But such detachment provided the very umbrella under which our present state of corruption flourished. If you've read my posts you know that I haven't trusted the news media since the Reagan Era. I saw them morph from laying suggestion between the lines through inflection and tone, to overt propagandizing. Today they push a political agenda with pride. Conservative do not dislike or hate liberals. But they're charged by the knowledge of the truth to point to that truth. It's done from concern, not superiority, and certainly not bias.

All we can do is hope and pray that the leaders we elect will be better than the last. Bar is really low for the Beshear.

FWIW don't believe everything you read on Facebook (the root of most of this evil in our nation today.)

KY already has gambling: Horse racing and the lottery. The cat is already out of the bag and has been for years. Personally, I would like to see a compromise of legalized gambling and sales tax to solve our tax revenue woes.

Everyone has a truth that's the problem that woke culture and conservative culture has right now. There is no inbetween. Ironic ain't it...

[TheRealThing]

All we can do is hope and pray that the leaders we elect will be better than the last. Bar is really low for the Beshear.

FWIW don't believe everything you read on Facebook (the root of most of this evil in our nation today.)

KY already has gambling: Horse racing and the lottery. The cat is already out of the bag and has been for years. Personally, I would like to see a compromise of legalized gambling and sales tax to solve our tax revenue woes.

Everyone has a truth that's the problem that woke culture and conservative culture has right now. There is no inbetween. Ironic ain't it...

I hear ya. The truth I meant was the truth according to God's Word, and It's clear. God's truth is much more important that any argument men may have, because it addresses and solves every last one of them. Most conservatives recognize one cannot dictate morality or lifestyle. And we cannot claim any high ground of and on our own. It's a question of choice and the understanding that devoid of the leadership of the Lord's Holy Spirit in one's life, there go I. Further, though we are a Christian nation we are not a theocracy and must respect one's right to make unfortunate choices. (That is the one's which don't break the law.) And cannot therefore legislate men into obeyance. The intolerance isn't coming from Christians, I can tell you that. And I frankly have not seen much of it from Republicans.

There is great misfortune headed our way in allowing only one side to define the terms of the situation and I blame some politicians for using implications of bias to stir up their base rather than relying on factual issues. But men are inherently endowed with the understanding of right and wrong as judged by their own consciences. So though they might not act like they accept moral tenets, inwardly they're aware of the truth. We have to keep getting it out there. But just as we cannot legislate obeyance, neither should we make law which is patently designed to overturn God's law. In dong that we have asked for trouble, and in so doing we have really found trouble.

Unfortunately conservatives have allowed their efforts to be mischaracterized as born of contempt or feelings of superiority. A certain percentage of the right base their perspectives on Scripture, the historical record and heritage, while most of the remainder base their perceptions almost exclusively on history and heritage. With Scripture coming in a distant third. But when government tries to define morality in direct contravention to Scripture, whether we like it or not, we get the divide you have described. They say the road to Hell is paved with good intentions and in all candor, I believe the left are convinced they are right. Their argument is with God in many cases, not Republicans/conservatives. He is the Author and Definer of all things moral.

But like you suggest, if we are to go on, the left and right had better figure out now to forgive each other. Otherwise the flames of hatred on display will only get hotter. Men ought to acquiesce to the will of the Creator, and use His wisdom as their guide in these matters. His is the standard which provides peaceful coexistence. Otherwise the endless fight will continue to divide us, and it WILL conquer us.