[Old School Hound]

This thread deals with the controversy surrounding those who choose to kneel(like the UK players did) during the playing of the national anthem.  Is it disrespectful? Should we be disgusted by such actions or should we be supportive of those who are exercising their freedoms in a free country. I am going to make my case for the latter. 

Let me first say that I have been a history buff since I was a young kid. I am a voracious reader of American history, in particular. In college I took every class I was able to take in American history.

I want to begin this thread with a little story from history.   Let me take you back to back to September of 1814.

 You are probably aware that there was a war that had begun with Great Britain a couple years prior. On August 24,1814  British troops had invaded Washington D.C. and set fire to the White House, the Capitol , Library of Congress, and other government buildings.  Fast forward to September.  In addition to burning down the White House, the British had taken prisoners.  One of those prisoners was a popular doctor from Maryland by the name of William Beanes.   A friend of the doctor, a young lawyer, sailed on a ship with a truce flag, hoping to negotiate the release of his doctor friend in a prisoner exchange with the British navy.

This young lawyer, who later served for eight years as D.A. in Washington D.C. under Andrew Jackson, was successful in getting British commanders to free his doctor friend. However, while aboard the ship, he overheard plans for a surprise attack on Baltimore. Hence, he and the doctor would not be allowed to leave until the attack was over.  The attack, a 24-hour bombardment of Fort McHenry, was witnessed by the young lawyer and his doctor friend while aboard a British ship.

From his vantage point on the ship, the lawyer couldn't determine who was the winner and loser in the bombing of Fort McHenry. However, as dawn set on the Baltimore fort, the lawyer saw the American flag with its 15 stars and 15 stripes still waving over the fort.  The incident inspired him to pen a poem on September 14, 1814 , that would soon be set to the tune of an existing song.

The young 35-year old lawyer who helped secure freedom for his friend, Dr. William Beanes ,  and who penned  the poem inspired by the flag waving over Fort McHenry , was a man by the name Francis Scott Key .  His poem, originally entitled "The Defense of Fort M'Henry,"  would later be changed to "The Star-Spangled Banner."

And now you know... The REST of the story .

EXCEPT...  you don't yet know the rest of the story . It's the rest of the story that I feel we need to be aware of when deciding whether or not to support those whose kneel in protest of racial injustice during the playing of the national anthem.

STAY TUNED ....

[Hoot Gibson]

The fact that Key owned slaves was not the reason that kneeling during the playing of the national anthem became a fad among NFL players that has since spread. It is an attempt to justify disrespectful behavior after the fact.

The issue is not only about an individual's decision not to stand during the playing of the national anthem, it is also about coercing teammates into kneeling, whether or not they also disrespect the flag and the nation. Consider what happened to poor Drew Brees when he decided not to kneel. He caved and is now reviled both by the kneelers and those who choose to stand. Brees went from making a courageous stand on principle to a cowardly compromise of his principles.

The left's attempt to erase history in this country is no different than what totalitarian regimes have done throughout history. History told outside of the context of time is not history at all. Slavery once existed in this country and slavery still exists in some parts of the world. It would surprise me if there is a single living person who does not have a slave ancestor somewhere in his family tree - whether the ancestor was kidnapped in west Africa or enslaved by Roman conquerors, all of our ancestors overcame hurdles to live, raise families, and leave a legacy than includes us. Francis Scott Key was a product of his culture, just as we are products of our time.

[Old School Hound]

The fact that Key owned slaves was not the reason that kneeling during the playing of the national anthem became a fad among NFL players that has since spread. It is an attempt to justify disrespectful behavior after the fact.

The issue is not only about an individual's decision not to stand during the playing of the national anthem, it is also about coercing teammates into kneeling, whether or not they also disrespect the flag and the nation. Consider what happened to poor Drew Brees when he decided not to kneel. He caved and is now reviled both by the kneelers and those who choose to stand. Brees went from making a courageous stand on principle to a cowardly compromise of his principles.

The left's attempt to erase history in this country is no different than what totalitarian regimes have done throughout history. History told outside of the context of time is not history at all. Slavery once existed in this country and slavery still exists in some parts of the world. It would surprise me if there is a single living person who does not have a slave ancestor somewhere in his family tree - whether the ancestor was kidnapped in west Africa or enslaved by Roman conquerors, all of our ancestors overcame hurdles to live, raise families, and leave a legacy than includes us. Francis Scott Key was a product of his culture, just as we are products of our time.

I'm assuming you are referring to the removal of state flags with Confederate emblems and removing Confederate monuments(all of which should be removed, by the way). I would submit that that it is those on the right that have attempted to "whitewash" history(pun intended). Since kids, we have been taught a history that is not honest and that has successfully made heroes out of people who were not heroes at all. F.S. Key is just one of many of these. White supremist ideology has roots that run deep in the history of America. Yet, we never learned this in school.  To this day, we still see the right-wingers trying to suppress the votes of blacks and minorities. This history of racist voter suppression dates back to the genesis of the country's founding.

Institutional racism was consciously incorporated into the language of the Constitution. Let's be brutally honest . Created by an all- white wealthy group of male "founding fathers," the original Constitution was replete with white supremist ideas designed to protect and prolong the institution of slavery and to exclude all those the "fathers" didn't deem worthy of citizenship.                   
                                                                              
Crafted just eleven years after the Declaration of Independence, itself full of lofty language about equality, democracy, and the right of self-determination, the Constitution did not mince words about who was not included in that language. Enslaved people could pursue neither life nor liberty, much less vote, and yet their numbers were used to entrench the political power of their white oppressors.

It should come as no surprise, as I will submit later, that Key's poem also includes racist language. Key was, in fact, an overt racist. He descended from a wealthy plantation family and enslaved people. He frequently spoke of Black people as a " distinct and inferior race."  I know, because I have read some of his writings. He supported freeing slaves only if they were immediately shipped to Africa. Were we told any of this in school? Of course not. 

Key penned "The Defense of Fort M'Henry"(Star-Spangled Banner) in 1814 .  Ever wonder why it took 117 years to be adopted as the national anthem???   Stay tuned...

[Hoot Gibson]

The fact that Key owned slaves was not the reason that kneeling during the playing of the national anthem became a fad among NFL players that has since spread. It is an attempt to justify disrespectful behavior after the fact.

The issue is not only about an individual's decision not to stand during the playing of the national anthem, it is also about coercing teammates into kneeling, whether or not they also disrespect the flag and the nation. Consider what happened to poor Drew Brees when he decided not to kneel. He caved and is now reviled both by the kneelers and those who choose to stand. Brees went from making a courageous stand on principle to a cowardly compromise of his principles.

The left's attempt to erase history in this country is no different than what totalitarian regimes have done throughout history. History told outside of the context of time is not history at all. Slavery once existed in this country and slavery still exists in some parts of the world. It would surprise me if there is a single living person who does not have a slave ancestor somewhere in his family tree - whether the ancestor was kidnapped in west Africa or enslaved by Roman conquerors, all of our ancestors overcame hurdles to live, raise families, and leave a legacy than includes us. Francis Scott Key was a product of his culture, just as we are products of our time.

I'm assuming you are referring to the removal of state flags with Confederate emblems and removing Confederate monuments(all of which should be removed, by the way). I would submit that that it is those on the right that have attempted to "whitewash" history(pun intended). Since kids, we have been taught a history that is not honest and that has successfully made heroes out of people who were not heroes at all. F.S. Key is just one of many of these. White supremist ideology has roots that run deep in the history of America. Yet, we never learned this in school.  To this day, we still see the right-wingers trying to suppress the votes of blacks and minorities. This history of racist voter suppression dates back to the genesis of the country's founding.

Institutional racism was consciously incorporated into the language of the Constitution. Let's be brutally honest . Created by an all- white wealthy group of male "founding fathers," the original Constitution was replete with white supremist ideas designed to protect and prolong the institution of slavery and to exclude all those the "fathers" didn't deem worthy of citizenship.                   
                                                                              
Crafted just eleven years after the Declaration of Independence, itself full of lofty language about equality, democracy, and the right of self-determination, the Constitution did not mince words about who was not included in that language. Enslaved people could pursue neither life nor liberty, much less vote, and yet their numbers were used to entrench the political power of their white oppressors.

It should come as no surprise, as I will submit later, that Key's poem also includes racist language. Key was, in fact, an overt racist. He descended from a wealthy plantation family and enslaved people. He frequently spoke of Black people as a " distinct and inferior race."  I know, because I have read some of his writings. He supported freeing slaves only if they were immediately shipped to Africa. Were we told any of this in school? Of course not. 

Key penned "The Defense of Fort M'Henry"(Star-Spangled Banner) in 1814 .  Ever wonder why it took 117 years to be adopted as the national anthem???   Stay tuned...

I am not suggesting that history be whitewashed at all. Just the opposite. Removing historical records, whether it is through the destruction of statues or the burning of books is wrong. State flags are a matter that the residents of the states should decide. Do you recall Barak Obama and Hillary Clinton declaring that marriage is between one man and one woman? I do. How should Democrats judge them in the future - as homophobes or champions of gay rights?

I think that they were right the first time but politicians frequently take positions that give them the best chance of being elected. So was Obama a better man than Thomas Jefferson or is he a product of his time, just as Jefferson was? Character, especially of a politician, is not a simple thing to determine. Honesty and courage are positive traits that have stood the test of time, yet modern judges of character seem very willing to overlook dishonesty and cowardice in their elected leaders. History should take a broader view of character and judge historical figures within the context of their time.

[Oledad92]

   

[mr.fundamental]

Well, I am curious now please continue...