[vector#1]

https://www.factcheck.org/2021/08/timeli...ghanistan/

[Cardfan1]

Every American that is in Afghanistan would be home now had it not been for Joe Biden extending the war and then botching the withdrawal. Instead, thousands of American civilians are stranded in a country controlled by terrorists.

Quooter time to end the gravy train after 20 years no good results.

The war Afghanistan was a huge victory — for the military-industrial complex (msn.com)

Funny that we never saw these posts attacking the Afghanstan War while Biden and Harris were taking credit for its success. I wonder why that was? Village idiots being partisan idiots - that's why.

Quooter didn't know how big of a disaster this war was after 20 years and all the money wasted arming and training the Afghan Army it's a total waste of money and time. After being told they was ready to take control of their country 2 weeks all it took every for the Taliban to take it over somebody has been lying to us. Americans should be mad at this and think real hard the next time we want to start nation building again. Know nothing about President Biden bragging he campaigned on getting out of this disaster and he did. When President Biden campaigns on something you better take his word for it. I guess we got used to the empty promises from the last guy.

Biden delayed the plan to withdraw from Afghanistan. Then, he withdrew so many troops that he could not safely extract American citizens from the country. He also allowed the Taliban to capture billions of dollars in American weapons. Screwing up the withdrawal from Afghanistan is a separate issue from the trillions of dollars that were wasted trying to mold Afghanistan into an American-style republic. I oppose nation-building and I have always opposed it. Our military is at its best when blowing things up and killing enemies and we should never try to rebuild countries that were never properly civilized.

Following World War II, it made sense to help rebuild Europe and Japan because this country needed trading partners to buy our products. In most cases, we should only go to war to punish nations for attacking American interests and there should be no rebuilding the nations who provoke us.

Didn’t Trump cut us to 2500 troops before he left office?  Which is the count we had before Biden sent in support troops. 

Are you lying on purpose or just don’t know what you’re talking about?

[vector#1]

Quooter time to end the gravy train after 20 years no good results.

The war Afghanistan was a huge victory — for the military-industrial complex (msn.com)

Funny that we never saw these posts attacking the Afghanstan War while Biden and Harris were taking credit for its success. I wonder why that was? Village idiots being partisan idiots - that's why.

Quooter didn't know how big of a disaster this war was after 20 years and all the money wasted arming and training the Afghan Army it's a total waste of money and time. After being told they was ready to take control of their country 2 weeks all it took every for the Taliban to take it over somebody has been lying to us. Americans should be mad at this and think real hard the next time we want to start nation building again. Know nothing about President Biden bragging he campaigned on getting out of this disaster and he did. When President Biden campaigns on something you better take his word for it. I guess we got used to the empty promises from the last guy.

Biden delayed the plan to withdraw from Afghanistan. Then, he withdrew so many troops that he could not safely extract American citizens from the country. He also allowed the Taliban to capture billions of dollars in American weapons. Screwing up the withdrawal from Afghanistan is a separate issue from the trillions of dollars that were wasted trying to mold Afghanistan into an American-style republic. I oppose nation-building and I have always opposed it. Our military is at its best when blowing things up and killing enemies and we should never try to rebuild countries that were never properly civilized.

Following World War II, it made sense to help rebuild Europe and Japan because this country needed trading partners to buy our products. In most cases, we should only go to war to punish nations for attacking American interests and there should be no rebuilding the nations who provoke us.

Didn’t Trump cut us to 2500 troops before he left office?  Which is the count we had before Biden sent in support troops. 

Are you lying on purpose or just don’t know what you’re talking about?

Cardfan1 yes January 15 2021 their was 2500 troops left the link i posted shows what happened. Basically someone lied about the Afghan Army able to hold their own they was going to get the weapons anyway just which timeline now we know in hindsight we should of took the weapons with us or destroyed them before we left after seeing what good they done for the Afghan Army

[Hoot Gibson]

Funny that we never saw these posts attacking the Afghanstan War while Biden and Harris were taking credit for its success. I wonder why that was? Village idiots being partisan idiots - that's why.

Quooter didn't know how big of a disaster this war was after 20 years and all the money wasted arming and training the Afghan Army it's a total waste of money and time. After being told they was ready to take control of their country 2 weeks all it took every for the Taliban to take it over somebody has been lying to us. Americans should be mad at this and think real hard the next time we want to start nation building again. Know nothing about President Biden bragging he campaigned on getting out of this disaster and he did. When President Biden campaigns on something you better take his word for it. I guess we got used to the empty promises from the last guy.

Biden delayed the plan to withdraw from Afghanistan. Then, he withdrew so many troops that he could not safely extract American citizens from the country. He also allowed the Taliban to capture billions of dollars in American weapons. Screwing up the withdrawal from Afghanistan is a separate issue from the trillions of dollars that were wasted trying to mold Afghanistan into an American-style republic. I oppose nation-building and I have always opposed it. Our military is at its best when blowing things up and killing enemies and we should never try to rebuild countries that were never properly civilized.

Following World War II, it made sense to help rebuild Europe and Japan because this country needed trading partners to buy our products. In most cases, we should only go to war to punish nations for attacking American interests and there should be no rebuilding the nations who provoke us.

Didn’t Trump cut us to 2500 troops before he left office?  Which is the count we had before Biden sent in support troops. 

Are you lying on purpose or just don’t know what you’re talking about?

Cardfan1 yes January 15 2021 their was 2500 troops left the link i posted shows what happened. Basically someone lied about the Afghan Army able to hold their own they was going to get the weapons anyway just which timeline now we know in hindsight we should of took the weapons with us or destroyed them before we left after seeing what good they done for the Afghan Army

The push by the Taliban that resulted in the fall of most provincial capitals followed by the fall of Kabul took place entirely on the watch of Joe Biden. The surrender of Bagram Airbase and billions of dollars of American owned weapons also took place on Biden's watch. Blaming Trump for the events of the last 12 days is not going to work.

[Cardfan1]

Hooter is desperate to hang the entirety of this on Biden, but it’s not that simple.

Getting them out is Biden’s responsibility.

[Hoot Gibson]

President Biden's botching of the withdrawal from Afghanistan is the worst foreign policy blunder since at least the Bay of Pigs fiasco. It may be the worst blunder by any Western leader since Neville Chamberlain returned from Berlin after getting Hitler to sign the Munich Agreement and declared:

My good friends, this is the second time there has come back from Germany to Downing Street peace with honour. I believe it is peace for our time. We thank you from the bottom of our hearts. Now I recommend you go home, and sleep quietly in your beds.

Chamberlain later resigned in disgrace. Biden should resign in disgrace after apologizing to all of our allies and to the Afghan people.

I have said it before but will repeat it again - too many actions taken by the Biden administration have benefitted the Communist Party of China for it to be a coincidence.

British Parliament Unloads On Biden: ‘Biden May Have Condemned The World To Chinese Domination In Future’

Numerous members of the British Parliament slammed President Joe Biden this week in response to the catastrophe the president created in Afghanistan with his disastrous pullout and handling of the situation.

The remarks came on Wednesday from members in the House of Lords, which is one of the two chambers in the British Parliament.
Members blamed Biden for the situation and shamed him for trying to cast blame on others, including the Afghan military. Many of the members said that America’s image was seriously damaged around the world and the West could suffer greatly in the years to come because nations may no longer trust the West to keep its promises.

The following are just some of the things that members of the British Parliament said about Biden:

[b]Lord Dannatt:[/b] “First, notwithstanding his attempted explanation on Monday, the manner and timing of the Afghan collapse is the direct result of President Biden’s decision to withdraw all US forces from Afghanistan by the 20th anniversary of 9/11. At a stroke, he has undermined the patient and painstaking work of the last five, 10, 15 years to build up governance in Afghanistan, develop its economy, transform its civil society and build up its security forces. The people had a glimpse of a better life, but that has been torn away. With US forces withdrawing, other NATO allies, including ourselves, had no option but to leave too, denying the Afghan national army the technical and training support that it needed and the moral support of friends who encouraged them to take the fight to the Taliban. Until a few weeks ago, the Taliban was being contained and may even have been persuaded over time that a military victory was impossible and a negotiated settlement was the better course. Those possibilities are now a closed chapter of history, an opportunity lost, and the world’s western superpower is looking enfeebled. The only glimmer of hope today is that the Taliban of 2021 is not the Taliban of 2001.”


[b]Lord Howard of Lympne:[/b] “The responsibility for the decision to withdraw rests with President Biden. Up to now, many of us have been rather impressed with the president’s performance in his first few months in office, although that may in large part be due to the relief at the absence of his unlamented predecessor. But I am afraid that President Biden’s decision to withdraw from Afghanistan is, and will be seen by history as, a catastrophic mistake which may well prove to be the defining legacy of his presidency.”

[b]Lord Robathan:[/b] “…we should not underestimate the disaster and humiliation that this has been. It is on a par with the first Afghan campaign, which humiliated the East India Company and then the British Empire when Dr Brydon returned alone from Elphinstone’s army. This is a humiliation of the West, of NATO, of us, of course, but especially of the US—which, apparently, leads the free world, or so we are told. President Biden said that ‘America is back’. Robert Gates, Defense Secretary to the Administrations of both George W Bush and Barack Obama, said in his memoirs that Biden had been on the wrong side of every national security issue of the past 20 years. I agree very much with what my noble friend Lord Hammond—who I worked under as Minister for the Armed Forces—said on this point. The humiliation and disaster of the West is appalling. The West is seen as an unreliable ally.”

[b]Lord Ricketts:[/b] Confidence in NATO has been damaged. China is the main beneficiary of President Biden’s decision. ‘America is back’ now sounds rather hollow—’America is backing down’ fits the case better. The British priority must be to address the damage done to NATO, to rebuild effective political consultations within NATO, and to focus on European security and the risk of Islamic terrorism in Europe. Rather than tilting to the Indo-Pacific, that is where the UK needs to put its national security energies.”

[b]Lord Stirrup:[/b] ” President Biden has suggested that the Afghans are not prepared to fight for their own country. But this ignores two facts. The first is the very large number of Afghan security forces personnel who have been killed on operations over the past two decades, and the second is that Afghan society has always placed much greater importance on loyalty to family, village and clan than to a central Government. In such a society, a military force modelled on the US army could never, in the short term, endure without the logistical, technical and moral support of the US armed forces. … President Biden purportedly wishes to withdraw from Afghanistan in order to concentrate on China. Yet his actions have immediately benefited China on several fronts. China is increasingly engaged commercially in Afghanistan and has been negotiating with the Taliban. Taken together with Pakistan’s increasing reliance on China, this creates a disturbing nexus of power in the region. Even more important is the perception of other countries. If the western powers are to resist China’s assault on the current rules-based international order, they will require strong political, economic and technological allies in the Indo-Pacific region. Who now, though, will be prepared to throw in their lot with a US-led effort, when that country’s leadership has proved such a fickle friend to Afghanistan? Perhaps the Minister can say what the implications are for the UK’s own tilt to the Indo-Pacific, which was such a prominent feature of the recent integrated review.”

[b]Lord Forsyth of Drumlean: [/b]“It is very hard to overestimate the scale of the catastrophe following the Biden Administration’s disastrous implementation of the decision to withdraw from Afghanistan. … It was utterly disingenuous for President Biden to present the Afghans as unwilling to fight for their country, after having withdrawn vital US support services without an agreed ceasefire, precipitating the collapse of the Afghan state.”

[b]Lord Blencathra:[/b] “My Lords, all my life I have been pro-American and favourably disposed to the United States, but not any more at this moment. What Biden has done in Afghanistan will go down in ignominy as one of the most shameful and despicable acts of betrayal by any American President. Tens of thousands of men will be slaughtered, thousands of young girls forced to marry these Taliban brutes and 14 million women driven back into slavery. Afghanistan was emerging into the light with freedoms for women and children, who will now be ruled with 500 year-old barbaric religious laws. That is Biden’s legacy. He cannot blame it on Trump; Biden boasted that in his first 100 days he issued a record 24 executive orders, all of which were direct reversals of Trump policies. He should have listened to his generals and changed this policy also. This is not like Saigon; it is far worse. First, the retaliation against the population by Islamist fanatics is likely to be far greater than what the North Vietnamese did to the beaten south. Secondly, the appalling humanitarian crisis described in this House today will centre on Afghanistan but the terrorist consequences of this US sell-out will affect us all. The Viet Cong had no agenda outside Vietnam but Afghanistan is now under the control of Islamist fanatics who want to wage war on every western democracy. … Biden has put America back, all right—back into the bunker. The lesson for China is this: play a long game and America will not have the stomach to stick it out. China is a threat to world peace, but how can we now trust the US to lead the long battle against it? Biden may have condemned the world to Chinese domination in future and the end of western liberal democracy.”


[b]Lord Anderson of Swansea: [/b]“What is the Government’s best analysis of the reasons for the rapid defeat? What are the geopolitical consequences of that defeat? President Biden, alas, will be diminished, certainly abroad. Do the Government see any danger of the US retreating into a new isolationism, abandoning the aspirations of nation building, spreading democracy and human rights, and a corresponding loss of trust in the US?”

[b]Lord Dodds of Duncairn:[/b] “President Biden’s speech the other day, blaming everyone and everything except his Administration’s precipitative pull-out, was truly awful. … I fear that the US decision to pull out in the way that it has will have dire consequences. It sends a message to the terrorists and rogue states that the West can be defeated. It sends a message to our friends that, at the end of the day, they can be abandoned. It sends a message to those who want to live in freedom and with human rights guaranteed, especially the women and girls of Afghanistan, that we cannot be relied upon.”

[b]Lord Touhig:[/b] “By withdrawing US troops, not only has President Biden destroyed the hopes of people in a fledgling democracy but he has made the world less safe. If ever there was a country that knows how dangerous a less safe world can be, it is the United States. That is even more so now, as we approach the 20th anniversary of 9/11. Here in Britain, we too know how a less safe world takes the lives of men and women on our streets, of children and young people at a Manchester concert and of a brave police officer guarding this Parliament. Britain fell into line behind President Biden. In doing so, our Government have increased the risk of terrorism globally.”

[b]Lord McColl of Dulwich: [/b]“Although President Biden has tried to shift the blame on to President Trump, that simply does not work. President Biden had the power to stop the withdrawal of the troops but failed to do so. To be fair, this situation may not be easy for President Biden to deal with because he does not seem to me to be in good health. There are many examples of the disease of a national leader having a disastrous effect on a country, a continent or even the world.”

[b]Lord Bruce of Bennachie: [/b]“For President Biden to say that the collapse of the Government and the defence capability was the Afghans’ fault is truly sickening. With limited allied troops and strategic air cover, the country was functioning, if imperfectly. The rapid withdrawal demoralised the domestic forces, who were often deployed far from home with no protection or support for their families against the Taliban, so it is hardly surprising that they chose not to fight. Now the cost of failure could outweigh by many times the cost of maintaining a minimal presence.”

[b]Lord Godson:[/b] “The role of the United States has been central to this and the Biden Administration have been rightly criticised, I think unanimously—as least, I have not heard any speaker defend their decision here today. It is a uniquely personal decision of this President … However, the Biden Administration are not the totality of America. Through much of my political life, having been born an American citizen, I have noted many pessimistic predictions for the US after previous debacles, although perhaps none quite as serious as this, which rolls in many of the features of past debacles into one fell swoop. … But because the Biden Administration are not the totality of the United States and its polity, America has an enormous resilience and ability to bounce back, to reappraise, regather and regroup.”

[Hoot Gibson]

Hooter is desperate to hang the entirety of this on Biden, but it’s not that simple.

Getting them out is Biden’s responsibility.

Did you not previously explain that getting out of Afghanistan is each individual's responsibility? Yes, I believe you did argue that it was the responsibility of companies to get their own employees out of Afghanistan. I am glad to see your position has evolved to the correct position.

However, the responsibility for the entire mess belongs to Biden. He could have increased our troop levels or even declared the Taliban in violation of the agreement that they sign, torn up the agreement, and brought the Taliban back to the table through military force.

[Cardfan1]

Hooter is desperate to hang the entirety of this on Biden, but it’s not that simple.

Getting them out is Biden’s responsibility.

Did you not previously explain that getting out of Afghanistan is each individual's responsibility? Yes, I believe you did argue that it was the responsibility of companies to get their own employees out of Afghanistan. I am glad to see your position has evolved to the correct position.

However, the responsibility for the entire mess belongs to Biden. He could have increased our troop levels or even declared the Taliban in violation of the agreement that they sign, torn up the agreement, and brought the Taliban back to the table through military force.

I absolutely did. My point is why were they still there, and being there they had to know the danger. Kind of like those that chose not get vaccinated or wear a mask. 

 But if Biden is going to commit to getting everybody out, it’s his baby.  

I figured you would support restarting the war.

[Hoot Gibson]

Hooter is desperate to hang the entirety of this on Biden, but it’s not that simple.

Getting them out is Biden’s responsibility.

Did you not previously explain that getting out of Afghanistan is each individual's responsibility? Yes, I believe you did argue that it was the responsibility of companies to get their own employees out of Afghanistan. I am glad to see your position has evolved to the correct position.

However, the responsibility for the entire mess belongs to Biden. He could have increased our troop levels or even declared the Taliban in violation of the agreement that they sign, torn up the agreement, and brought the Taliban back to the table through military force.

I absolutely did. My point is why were they still there, and being there they had to know the danger. Kind of like those that chose not get vaccinated or wear a mask. 

 But if Biden is going to commit to getting everybody out, it’s his baby.  

I figured you would support restarting the war.

You really don't seem to understand what a federal contractor is. If private contractors are still in Afghanistan, then they are there because the terms of their contract require them to be there. Employees of companies holding federal contracts may resign their jobs and leave but if they want to keep their jobs, then they go and stay when they are told by their employers. The employers respond to the orders of the federal government, provided those orders are consistent with their contract.

"Private contractor" is not synonymous with "free agents" answering to no one. Your analogy is absolutely idiotic.

[vector#1]

Quooter time to end the gravy train after 20 years no good results.

The war Afghanistan was a huge victory — for the military-industrial complex (msn.com)

Funny that we never saw these posts attacking the Afghanstan War while Biden and Harris were taking credit for its success. I wonder why that was? Village idiots being partisan idiots - that's why.

Quooter didn't know how big of a disaster this war was after 20 years and all the money wasted arming and training the Afghan Army it's a total waste of money and time. After being told they was ready to take control of their country 2 weeks all it took every for the Taliban to take it over somebody has been lying to us. Americans should be mad at this and think real hard the next time we want to start nation building again. Know nothing about President Biden bragging he campaigned on getting out of this disaster and he did. When President Biden campaigns on something you better take his word for it. I guess we got used to the empty promises from the last guy.

Biden delayed the plan to withdraw from Afghanistan. Then, he withdrew so many troops that he could not safely extract American citizens from the country. He also allowed the Taliban to capture billions of dollars in American weapons. Screwing up the withdrawal from Afghanistan is a separate issue from the trillions of dollars that were wasted trying to mold Afghanistan into an American-style republic. I oppose nation-building and I have always opposed it. Our military is at its best when blowing things up and killing enemies and we should never try to rebuild countries that were never properly civilized.

Following World War II, it made sense to help rebuild Europe and Japan because this country needed trading partners to buy our products. In most cases, we should only go to war to punish nations for attacking American interests and there should be no rebuilding the nations who provoke us.

Didn’t Trump cut us to 2500 troops before he left office?  Which is the count we had before Biden sent in support troops. 

Are you lying on purpose or just don’t know what you’re talking about?

YES Quooter is lying he and TRT like to throw in some extra goodies hoping you might not catch them

[Cardfan1]

Hooter is desperate to hang the entirety of this on Biden, but it’s not that simple.

Getting them out is Biden’s responsibility.

Did you not previously explain that getting out of Afghanistan is each individual's responsibility? Yes, I believe you did argue that it was the responsibility of companies to get their own employees out of Afghanistan. I am glad to see your position has evolved to the correct position.

However, the responsibility for the entire mess belongs to Biden. He could have increased our troop levels or even declared the Taliban in violation of the agreement that they sign, torn up the agreement, and brought the Taliban back to the table through military force.

I absolutely did. My point is why were they still there, and being there they had to know the danger. Kind of like those that chose not get vaccinated or wear a mask. 

 But if Biden is going to commit to getting everybody out, it’s his baby.  

I figured you would support restarting the war.

You really don't seem to understand what a federal contractor is. If private contractors are still in Afghanistan, then they are there because the terms of their contract require them to be there. Employees of companies holding federal contracts may resign their jobs and leave but if they want to keep their jobs, then they go and stay when they are told by their employers. The employers respond to the orders of the federal government, provided those orders are consistent with their contract.

"Private contractor" is not synonymous with "free agents" answering to no one. Your analogy is absolutely idiotic.

I said if the federal govt has you there by order they should get you out. 

But ultimately if you are a US civilian you are responsible for your safety.  If your job is going to put you in danger then you should quit and get a job that is safer.  Right, Hooter?

[Hoot Gibson]

Funny that we never saw these posts attacking the Afghanstan War while Biden and Harris were taking credit for its success. I wonder why that was? Village idiots being partisan idiots - that's why.

Quooter didn't know how big of a disaster this war was after 20 years and all the money wasted arming and training the Afghan Army it's a total waste of money and time. After being told they was ready to take control of their country 2 weeks all it took every for the Taliban to take it over somebody has been lying to us. Americans should be mad at this and think real hard the next time we want to start nation building again. Know nothing about President Biden bragging he campaigned on getting out of this disaster and he did. When President Biden campaigns on something you better take his word for it. I guess we got used to the empty promises from the last guy.

Biden delayed the plan to withdraw from Afghanistan. Then, he withdrew so many troops that he could not safely extract American citizens from the country. He also allowed the Taliban to capture billions of dollars in American weapons. Screwing up the withdrawal from Afghanistan is a separate issue from the trillions of dollars that were wasted trying to mold Afghanistan into an American-style republic. I oppose nation-building and I have always opposed it. Our military is at its best when blowing things up and killing enemies and we should never try to rebuild countries that were never properly civilized.

Following World War II, it made sense to help rebuild Europe and Japan because this country needed trading partners to buy our products. In most cases, we should only go to war to punish nations for attacking American interests and there should be no rebuilding the nations who provoke us.

Didn’t Trump cut us to 2500 troops before he left office?  Which is the count we had before Biden sent in support troops. 

Are you lying on purpose or just don’t know what you’re talking about?

YES Quooter is lying he and TRT like to throw in some extra goodies hoping you might not catch them

I don't think that anybody knows what the troop level was when Biden took office or what it was a week ago. The Trump administration stopped publicizing troop levels long before Biden took office and as far as I know, the Biden administration has not resumed publishing those levels. It is stupid to let an enemy know how many troops are deployed during wartime. When troops are deployed, they are given a range of possible deployment dates for the sake of operational security.

My understanding is that Biden drew down the number of troops, but obviously, if we were forced to surrender either Bagram AFB or the Hamid Karzai International Airport, then more troops were needed to ensure an orderly withdrawal from the country and handover of power to the Afghan government.

[Hoot Gibson]

Hooter is desperate to hang the entirety of this on Biden, but it’s not that simple.

Getting them out is Biden’s responsibility.

Did you not previously explain that getting out of Afghanistan is each individual's responsibility? Yes, I believe you did argue that it was the responsibility of companies to get their own employees out of Afghanistan. I am glad to see your position has evolved to the correct position.

However, the responsibility for the entire mess belongs to Biden. He could have increased our troop levels or even declared the Taliban in violation of the agreement that they sign, torn up the agreement, and brought the Taliban back to the table through military force.

I absolutely did. My point is why were they still there, and being there they had to know the danger. Kind of like those that chose not get vaccinated or wear a mask. 

 But if Biden is going to commit to getting everybody out, it’s his baby.  

I figured you would support restarting the war.

You really don't seem to understand what a federal contractor is. If private contractors are still in Afghanistan, then they are there because the terms of their contract require them to be there. Employees of companies holding federal contracts may resign their jobs and leave but if they want to keep their jobs, then they go and stay when they are told by their employers. The employers respond to the orders of the federal government, provided those orders are consistent with their contract.

"Private contractor" is not synonymous with "free agents" answering to no one. Your analogy is absolutely idiotic.

I said if the federal govt has you there by order they should get you out. 

But ultimately if you are a US civilian you are responsible for your safety.  If your job is going to put you in danger then you should quit and get a job that is safer.  Right, Hooter?

That is always an option but in this case, the Commander-in-Chief, President Joe Biden, assured everybody that the fall of the Afghan government was not imminent and that they were safe. How would an individual American citizen determine that President Biden had no clue what he was talking about and that they were in great danger of being kidnapped, tortured, and/or raped?

[Cardfan1]

Quooter didn't know how big of a disaster this war was after 20 years and all the money wasted arming and training the Afghan Army it's a total waste of money and time. After being told they was ready to take control of their country 2 weeks all it took every for the Taliban to take it over somebody has been lying to us. Americans should be mad at this and think real hard the next time we want to start nation building again. Know nothing about President Biden bragging he campaigned on getting out of this disaster and he did. When President Biden campaigns on something you better take his word for it. I guess we got used to the empty promises from the last guy.

Biden delayed the plan to withdraw from Afghanistan. Then, he withdrew so many troops that he could not safely extract American citizens from the country. He also allowed the Taliban to capture billions of dollars in American weapons. Screwing up the withdrawal from Afghanistan is a separate issue from the trillions of dollars that were wasted trying to mold Afghanistan into an American-style republic. I oppose nation-building and I have always opposed it. Our military is at its best when blowing things up and killing enemies and we should never try to rebuild countries that were never properly civilized.

Following World War II, it made sense to help rebuild Europe and Japan because this country needed trading partners to buy our products. In most cases, we should only go to war to punish nations for attacking American interests and there should be no rebuilding the nations who provoke us.

Didn’t Trump cut us to 2500 troops before he left office?  Which is the count we had before Biden sent in support troops. 

Are you lying on purpose or just don’t know what you’re talking about?

YES Quooter is lying he and TRT like to throw in some extra goodies hoping you might not catch them

I don't think that anybody knows what the troop level was when Biden took office or what it was a week ago. The Trump administration stopped publicizing troop levels long before Biden took office and as far as I know, the Biden administration has not resumed publishing those levels. It is stupid to let an enemy know how many troops are deployed during wartime. When troops are deployed, they are given a range of possible deployment dates for the sake of operational security.

My understanding is that Biden drew down the number of troops, but obviously, if we were forced to surrender either Bagram AFB or the Hamid Karzai International Airport, then more troops were needed to ensure an orderly withdrawal from the country and handover of power to the Afghan government.

Uhhh…so you have been blathering all through this thread and you didn’t know what the hell you’re talking about?!   

Almost everything you typed is wrong.   
Trump admin announced the number of troops before leaving office in January. Biden admin announced the numbers around 2500-3000 just last month.

[Hoot Gibson]

This sounds like a Secretary of State who believes that he is about to be thrown under the bus throwing his boss under the bus first. A president, even a president as incompetent as Joe Biden, deserves better support from his staff than Blinken has given him. He and Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin should both resign and give the administration an opportunity to nominate more competent cabinet members to replace them.

Blinken On If Biden Knows ‘What’s Going On’ In Afghanistan: It’s An ‘Emotional Time For Many Of Us’

[Hoot Gibson]

Biden delayed the plan to withdraw from Afghanistan. Then, he withdrew so many troops that he could not safely extract American citizens from the country. He also allowed the Taliban to capture billions of dollars in American weapons. Screwing up the withdrawal from Afghanistan is a separate issue from the trillions of dollars that were wasted trying to mold Afghanistan into an American-style republic. I oppose nation-building and I have always opposed it. Our military is at its best when blowing things up and killing enemies and we should never try to rebuild countries that were never properly civilized.

Following World War II, it made sense to help rebuild Europe and Japan because this country needed trading partners to buy our products. In most cases, we should only go to war to punish nations for attacking American interests and there should be no rebuilding the nations who provoke us.

Didn’t Trump cut us to 2500 troops before he left office?  Which is the count we had before Biden sent in support troops. 

Are you lying on purpose or just don’t know what you’re talking about?

YES Quooter is lying he and TRT like to throw in some extra goodies hoping you might not catch them

I don't think that anybody knows what the troop level was when Biden took office or what it was a week ago. The Trump administration stopped publicizing troop levels long before Biden took office and as far as I know, the Biden administration has not resumed publishing those levels. It is stupid to let an enemy know how many troops are deployed during wartime. When troops are deployed, they are given a range of possible deployment dates for the sake of operational security.

My understanding is that Biden drew down the number of troops, but obviously, if we were forced to surrender either Bagram AFB or the Hamid Karzai International Airport, then more troops were needed to ensure an orderly withdrawal from the country and handover of power to the Afghan government.

Uhhh…so you have been blathering all through this thread and you didn’t know what the hell you’re talking about?!   

Almost everything you typed is wrong.   
Trump admin announced the number of troops before leaving office in January. Biden admin announced the numbers around 2500-3000 just last month.

Wrong. He announced a target for January 15. I don't believe an official number was ever published, but if you have "official" numbers, then post them. For example, there were troops remaining in Syria after Trump ordered them withdrawn. You can't believe the numbers that presidents give in speeches, nor can you believe media estimates based on unnamed sources. Troop levels and deployment dates are closely guarded secrets. 

The bottom line is that Biden has been in office for seven months. If the troop levels were inadequate, then there was plenty of time for him to have made appropriate adjustments. Your feeble attempts to blame Trump for every Biden failure are failing miserably.

[Cardfan1]

https://www.defense.gov/Newsroom/Release...ls-in-afg/

You’ve been spewing all this conjecture and all you had to do is Google it. Took less than a minute.

Trump made a deal with the Taliban legitimizing them. The failure of the Afghani army and govt. is on him. The Biden Administration should have realized the weakness in the Afghan govt. US intelligence was poor.

[Hoot Gibson]

https://www.defense.gov/Newsroom/Release...ls-in-afg/

You’ve been spewing all this conjecture and all you had to do is Google it. Took less than a minute.

Trump made a deal with the Taliban legitimizing them.  The failure of the Afghani army and govt.  is on him. The Biden Administration should have realized the weakness in the Afghan govt. US intelligence was poor.

Good for you, Cardfan1 but you boasting about your Googling skills does nothing to change the fact that the debacle in Afghanistan belongs to nobody but Joe Biden and his staff. Trump has been out of office for more than 7 months, yet Biden had no clue about what was going on under his watch in Afghanistan.

I could post quotes of all of the statements made by Biden and Harris over the past 7 months, indicating that everything was going well in Afghanistan, but that would change nothing. The buck for the disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan stops with Biden and there are no "buts" necessary for that statement. And unlike during the campaign, there is really no place for Biden to hide from his responsibility for the current mess. He wanted the job and responsibility, and he has it. It is time for him to man up and stop blaming everybody else for his shortcomings.

[Hoot Gibson]

Apparently, President Biden has appointed some cabinet members who are too honest to be working in his administration. They keep publicly contradicting Biden's lies to the American public.

Intel assessment said Taliban could take over in months, Defense Secretary Austin acknowledges

These intel assessments appear to contradict Biden's reassurances last month about Taliban takeover

[Hoot Gibson]

[Image: https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tena...&h=432&m=6]

[Cardfan1]

https://www.defense.gov/Newsroom/Release...ls-in-afg/

You’ve been spewing all this conjecture and all you had to do is Google it. Took less than a minute.

Trump made a deal with the Taliban legitimizing them.  The failure of the Afghani army and govt.  is on him. The Biden Administration should have realized the weakness in the Afghan govt. US intelligence was poor.

Good for you, Cardfan1 but you boasting about your Googling skills does nothing to change the fact that the debacle in Afghanistan belongs to nobody but Joe Biden and his staff. Trump has been out of office for more than 7 months, yet Biden had no clue about what was going on under his watch in Afghanistan.

I could post quotes of all of the statements made by Biden and Harris over the past 7 months, indicating that everything was going well in Afghanistan, but that would change nothing. The buck for the disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan stops with Biden and there are no "buts" necessary for that statement. And unlike during the campaign, there is really no place for Biden to hide from his responsibility for the current mess. He wanted the job and responsibility, and he has it. It is time for him to man up and stop blaming everybody else for his shortcomings.

Nice sidestep.  Most of your posts in this thread have been based on your lack of knowledge of the subject…you just proved that. 

He did want the job and like everything else he should have known this was another Trump mess.   Biden needs to just rip up everything that happened those 4 years and start all over.  

You are right about one thing, Hooter. Biden is going to have hold these officials accountable who have been feeding him these sunny reports.

[Hoot Gibson]

https://www.defense.gov/Newsroom/Release...ls-in-afg/

You’ve been spewing all this conjecture and all you had to do is Google it. Took less than a minute.

Trump made a deal with the Taliban legitimizing them.  The failure of the Afghani army and govt.  is on him. The Biden Administration should have realized the weakness in the Afghan govt. US intelligence was poor.

Good for you, Cardfan1 but you boasting about your Googling skills does nothing to change the fact that the debacle in Afghanistan belongs to nobody but Joe Biden and his staff. Trump has been out of office for more than 7 months, yet Biden had no clue about what was going on under his watch in Afghanistan.

I could post quotes of all of the statements made by Biden and Harris over the past 7 months, indicating that everything was going well in Afghanistan, but that would change nothing. The buck for the disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan stops with Biden and there are no "buts" necessary for that statement. And unlike during the campaign, there is really no place for Biden to hide from his responsibility for the current mess. He wanted the job and responsibility, and he has it. It is time for him to man up and stop blaming everybody else for his shortcomings.

Nice sidestep.  Most of your posts in this thread have been based on your lack of knowledge of the subject…you just proved that. 

He did want the job and like everything else he should have known this was another Trump mess.   Biden needs to just rip up everything that happened those 4 years and start all over.  

You are right about one thing, Hooter. Biden is going to have hold these officials accountable who have been feeding him these sunny reports.

You bet on a losing horse. Biden is not being fed sunny reports. He just chooses not to listen or is incapable of understanding the world in which he lives. As for ripping up everything, that is exactly what he has been trying to do since he took office. That is why there are so many messes that his successor will need to clean up.

The southern border fiasco should have served as a wake-up call for Democrats but people like you do not seem interested in competence when you can blame failures on Trump. A growing number of Democrats are realizing that Biden is a fraud who made promises on which he cannot deliver.

Better luck next time with your vote. I suppose you are not old enough to have voted for Jimmy Carter, whose record should have served Democrats as a handbook of what not to do as president. Biden has been in federal elected office almost continuously since he was 29 years old and he was never qualified to serve as president.

[The Outsider]

The administrations of the last 3 Presidents had been informed that the numbers of soldiers in the Afghan Army were inflated by approximately 100%.  This means that they were also providing arms and equipment for the false number, which were being sold on the black market.  Also, over 50% of the fuel provided by the US was being stolen.  For whatever reason, these warnings were ignored, so now the US has a complete mess on it's hands.  The Biden Administration needs to quit making excuses and make it as right as they can from this point on and hopefully learn from the mistakes that were made.

[Hoot Gibson]

The administrations of the last 3 Presidents had been informed that the numbers of soldiers in the Afghan Army were inflated by approximately 100%.  This means that they were also providing arms and equipment for the false number, which were being sold on the black market.  Also, over 50% of the fuel provided by the US was being stolen.  For whatever reason, these warnings were ignored, so now the US has a complete mess on it's hands.  The Biden Administration needs to quit making excuses and make it as right as they can from this point on and hopefully learn from the mistakes that were made.

That is the first that I have heard about this but it is certainly believable. The U.S. had to rely on Afghans to some extent and I am sure that they were fed some bogus data to get their hands on goods that could be sold on the black market. I don't know about the percentages and I don't know how you would get a handle on the actual magnitude of the problem, except by embedding American commanders more deeply into Afghan military units, but your statements sound credible.

There were also intelligence reports that included assessments that the Afghan military could collapse very quickly under some scenarios but those reports were ignored. Those reports were reportedly provided to both the Trump and Biden administrations but as you said, the Biden administration needs to stop making excuses and focus on getting Americans home safely. We will never know for certain whether or not Trump would have made operational adjustments and prepared better for the evacuation of American citizens because his term ended well before the plan was implemented.

[Cardfan1]

The administrations of the last 3 Presidents had been informed that the numbers of soldiers in the Afghan Army were inflated by approximately 100%.  This means that they were also providing arms and equipment for the false number, which were being sold on the black market.  Also, over 50% of the fuel provided by the US was being stolen.  For whatever reason, these warnings were ignored, so now the US has a complete mess on it's hands.  The Biden Administration needs to quit making excuses and make it as right as they can from this point on and hopefully learn from the mistakes that were made.

That is the first that I have heard about this but it is certainly believable. The U.S. had to rely on Afghans to some extent and I am sure that they were fed some bogus data to get their hands on goods that could be sold on the black market. I don't know about the percentages and I don't know how you would get a handle on the actual magnitude of the problem, except by embedding American commanders more deeply into Afghan military units, but your statements sound credible.

There were also intelligence reports that included assessments that the Afghan military could collapse very quickly under some scenarios but those reports were ignored. Those reports were reportedly provided to both the Trump and Biden administrations but as you said, the Biden administration needs to stop making excuses and focus on getting Americans home safely. We will never know for certain whether or not Trump would have made operational adjustments and prepared better for the evacuation of American citizens because his term ended well before the plan was implemented.

I thought you said Biden was incapable of understanding and not being fed sunny reports?    This is what you call talking out both sides of your mouth.  

I have seen some videos of soldiers attempting to train the Afghan army.  The soldiers were really struggling with the quality of soldiers they were attempting to train.  Some even surmised they were intentionally being sent recruits with drug problems and deliquents.  This most likely has been a long game played by the Taliban who waited us out.  Thye knew eventually we would get tired of blowing billions over there to build a paper tiger.

[Hoot Gibson]

The administrations of the last 3 Presidents had been informed that the numbers of soldiers in the Afghan Army were inflated by approximately 100%.  This means that they were also providing arms and equipment for the false number, which were being sold on the black market.  Also, over 50% of the fuel provided by the US was being stolen.  For whatever reason, these warnings were ignored, so now the US has a complete mess on it's hands.  The Biden Administration needs to quit making excuses and make it as right as they can from this point on and hopefully learn from the mistakes that were made.

That is the first that I have heard about this but it is certainly believable. The U.S. had to rely on Afghans to some extent and I am sure that they were fed some bogus data to get their hands on goods that could be sold on the black market. I don't know about the percentages and I don't know how you would get a handle on the actual magnitude of the problem, except by embedding American commanders more deeply into Afghan military units, but your statements sound credible.

There were also intelligence reports that included assessments that the Afghan military could collapse very quickly under some scenarios but those reports were ignored. Those reports were reportedly provided to both the Trump and Biden administrations but as you said, the Biden administration needs to stop making excuses and focus on getting Americans home safely. We will never know for certain whether or not Trump would have made operational adjustments and prepared better for the evacuation of American citizens because his term ended well before the plan was implemented.

I thought you said Biden was incapable of understanding and not being fed sunny reports?    This is what you call talking out both sides of your mouth.  

I have seen some videos of soldiers attempting to train the Afghan army.  The soldiers were really struggling with the quality of soldiers they were attempting to train.  Some even surmised they were intentionally being sent recruits with drug problems and deliquents.  This most likely has been a long game played by the Taliban who waited us out.  Thye knew eventually we would get tired of blowing billions over there to build a paper tiger.

That is exactly what I said and who said anything about sunny reports? Biden had the intelligence that included scenarios for a quick collapse of the Afghan government and ignored them. The buck stops with Biden whether you like it or not.

[Cardfan1]

The administrations of the last 3 Presidents had been informed that the numbers of soldiers in the Afghan Army were inflated by approximately 100%.  This means that they were also providing arms and equipment for the false number, which were being sold on the black market.  Also, over 50% of the fuel provided by the US was being stolen.  For whatever reason, these warnings were ignored, so now the US has a complete mess on it's hands.  The Biden Administration needs to quit making excuses and make it as right as they can from this point on and hopefully learn from the mistakes that were made.

That is the first that I have heard about this but it is certainly believable. The U.S. had to rely on Afghans to some extent and I am sure that they were fed some bogus data to get their hands on goods that could be sold on the black market. I don't know about the percentages and I don't know how you would get a handle on the actual magnitude of the problem, except by embedding American commanders more deeply into Afghan military units, but your statements sound credible.

There were also intelligence reports that included assessments that the Afghan military could collapse very quickly under some scenarios but those reports were ignored. Those reports were reportedly provided to both the Trump and Biden administrations but as you said, the Biden administration needs to stop making excuses and focus on getting Americans home safely. We will never know for certain whether or not Trump would have made operational adjustments and prepared better for the evacuation of American citizens because his term ended well before the plan was implemented.

I thought you said Biden was incapable of understanding and not being fed sunny reports?    This is what you call talking out both sides of your mouth.  

I have seen some videos of soldiers attempting to train the Afghan army.  The soldiers were really struggling with the quality of soldiers they were attempting to train.  Some even surmised they were intentionally being sent recruits with drug problems and deliquents.  This most likely has been a long game played by the Taliban who waited us out.  Thye knew eventually we would get tired of blowing billions over there to build a paper tiger.

That is exactly what I said and who said anything about sunny reports? Biden had the intelligence that included scenarios for a quick collapse of the Afghan government and ignored them. The buck stops with Biden whether you like it or not.

The buck does stop with Biden.   Funny how that only applies to presidents you don't like.    If I'm him, heads that told me the Afghans could hold long enough for us to get out would roll.  IMO there is no question about getting out.

[The Outsider]

https://currently.att.yahoo.com/news/ser...00389.html

I served in Afghanistan as a US Marine, twice. Here’s the truth in two sentences.

One: For 20 years, politicians, elites and D.C. military leaders lied to us about Afghanistan.

Two: What happened last week was inevitable, and anyone saying differently is still lying to you.

led a team of Marines training Iraqi security forces to defend their country. When I arrived I received a “stoplight” chart on their supposed capabilities in dozens of missions and responsibilities. Green meant they were good. Yellow was needed improvement; red said they couldn’t do it at all.

I was delighted to see how far along they were on paper — until I actually began working with them. I attempted to adjust the charts to reflect reality and was quickly shut down. The ratings could not go down. That was the deal. It was the kind of lie that kept the war going.

So when people ask me if we made the right call getting out of Afghanistan in 2021, I answer truthfully: Absolutely not. The right call was getting out in 2002. 2003. Every year we didn’t get out was another year the Taliban used to refine their skills and tactics against us — the best fighting force in the world. After two decades, $2 trillion and nearly 2,500 American lives lost, 2021 was way too late to make the right call.

[Hoot Gibson]

https://currently.att.yahoo.com/news/ser...00389.html

I served in Afghanistan as a US Marine, twice. Here’s the truth in two sentences.

One: For 20 years, politicians, elites and D.C. military leaders lied to us about Afghanistan.

Two: What happened last week was inevitable, and anyone saying differently is still lying to you.

led a team of Marines training Iraqi security forces to defend their country. When I arrived I received a “stoplight” chart on their supposed capabilities in dozens of missions and responsibilities. Green meant they were good. Yellow was needed improvement; red said they couldn’t do it at all.

I was delighted to see how far along they were on paper — until I actually began working with them. I attempted to adjust the charts to reflect reality and was quickly shut down. The ratings could not go down. That was the deal. It was the kind of lie that kept the war going.

So when people ask me if we made the right call getting out of Afghanistan in 2021, I answer truthfully: Absolutely not. The right call was getting out in 2002. 2003. Every year we didn’t get out was another year the Taliban used to refine their skills and tactics against us — the best fighting force in the world. After two decades, $2 trillion and nearly 2,500 American lives lost, 2021 was way too late to make the right call.

I agree with much of what you said above but the chaotic way in which we are exiting Afghanistan was not inevitable. We have extracted American civilians from war zones before and in modern American history, the extraction was never as poorly planned and executed as this one has been. That was entirely avoidable. Joe Biden has a long history of lying to make himself look good. When multiple members of his own cabinet and military contradict him in public, I tend to believe that Biden is lying again.

[Cardfan1]

https://currently.att.yahoo.com/news/ser...00389.html

I served in Afghanistan as a US Marine, twice. Here’s the truth in two sentences.

One: For 20 years, politicians, elites and D.C. military leaders lied to us about Afghanistan.

Two: What happened last week was inevitable, and anyone saying differently is still lying to you.

led a team of Marines training Iraqi security forces to defend their country. When I arrived I received a “stoplight” chart on their supposed capabilities in dozens of missions and responsibilities. Green meant they were good. Yellow was needed improvement; red said they couldn’t do it at all.

I was delighted to see how far along they were on paper — until I actually began working with them. I attempted to adjust the charts to reflect reality and was quickly shut down. The ratings could not go down. That was the deal. It was the kind of lie that kept the war going.

So when people ask me if we made the right call getting out of Afghanistan in 2021, I answer truthfully: Absolutely not. The right call was getting out in 2002. 2003. Every year we didn’t get out was another year the Taliban used to refine their skills and tactics against us — the best fighting force in the world. After two decades, $2 trillion and nearly 2,500 American lives lost, 2021 was way too late to make the right call.

I agree with much of what you said above but the chaotic way in which we are exiting Afghanistan was not inevitable. We have extracted American civilians from war zones before and in modern American history, the extraction was never as poorly planned and executed as this one has been. That was entirely avoidable. Joe Biden has a long history of lying to make himself look good. When multiple members of his own cabinet and military contradict him in public, I tend to believe that Biden is lying again.

When have we exited successfully?   

Iraq was a mess, Vietnam was a mess...

Good Lord... a guy who believed Trump is calling somebody a liar. 

---

Hooter, I've read several conservatives have their hair on fire now there is a threat of Afghan refugees being accepted here. Where do you stand?

I know where you stood?

Are you with Ducey, Hutchinson, Hogan, McMaster, Cox, Reynolds, Stitt, Scott, or are you with the right-wing pundits who whining about refugees?