[Coach_Owens87]

Bush couldn't commute a sentence though unless the board recommended it. All death penalties were reviewed by much more than 15-30 minutes per case by them, Bush then reviewed the panels finding and was briefed by council. As I said, Bush wouldn't be commute them anyways, even if he could. I'm sure of that.

I'm just saying its a very weak aruement to say that Bush is pro-death, because of the above information... and factually incorrect to say that he 'used the death penalty often'.

I dont need a lecture on the process of the death penalty, the only point I was making is a man that claims to be "Pro-life" doesnt take the time to really back what he says. If youre going to be pro-life, be pro-life. Murder is murder, no matter how you went about committing it.

[ronald_reagan]

I dont need a lecture on the process of the death penalty, the only point I was making is a man that claims to be "Pro-life" doesnt take the time to really back what he says. If youre going to be pro-life, be pro-life. Murder is murder, no matter how you went about committing it.

Once again, if Bush would have been pro-life as we are... against the death penalty.. how would that have stopped the 153 death warrants that came across his desk? He could not signed the speeding up process, but that would have only slowed it down. You and I in his position would have done the same thing he did. NOTHING.

And its not a lecture, its a correction. Your point isn't a good argument because its based upon the premise that bush could change things.....

[More Cowbell]

I dont believe abortion is right either, but I cant tell other people people what to do with their life.

I hear that reasoning a lot, which is kind of like saying, "I don't believe in killing babies myself, but it's not my place to tell others they can't kill babies."

If you support abortion rights, it stands to reason that you should also support the right of someone to kill another person at any time, since it's not our place to tell them they can't kill people.

Most pro-choicers justify their position by saying that "it's the woman's life, it's her choice." But they conveniently forget that there's another life involved in the equation, an innocent child who deserves the same chance at life as the rest of us. But many abortion rights supporters would prefer not to think about the fact that abortion kills babies. It's a lot more pleasant to chant phrases like "freedom of choice" and ignore what's actually happening.

[The Guru]

I am not saying that Abortion is right, wrong or anything. I do however support, the Freedom of Choice.
I could care less about the Death Penalty. I really don't believe that it actually helps with victim's closure.
My father was murdered and the Death Penalty was not sought after, instead, Life without parole. The guy did however waste countless tax dollars spending the last 14 years in the hospital. The guy died last Friday and honestly.....It didn't affect me in the least. Not anymore the the death of someone i didn't even know.
I had closure long ago with the help of God and family.

What's the difference between abortion and murder?
Most abortions are legal.
If you believe in your constitutional rights, then why wouldn't you support someone else in theirs. If you don't support them, then change the constitution or shut up.
I don't hate protesters or people expressing their views, beliefs and feelings, but I absolutely despise "Radicals".
If you feel compelled to try and convince someone that they are doing wrong is one thing, but slander, harrassing, vandalism and violence is wrong and hurts the efforts of genuine people trying to help their causes. JMO

[ronald_reagan]

If you believe in your constitutional rights, then why wouldn't you support someone else in theirs. If you don't support them, then change the constitution or shut up.

*waves the magic wand* Abbra Cadabbra! Constitution changed!!!

Guru, Roe v. Wade was based on bad law as many pro-choice radical liberals will even admit.

Its not a matter of changing the constitution... its a matter of changing the hearts and minds of people. People typically aren't democrat because they're pro-choice.. they're pro-choice because they're democrat. And thats the biggest problem we face as pro-life 'radicals'....

I'm definately one you'd despise. No doubt.

But back to the constitution, if it were so easy to change.. it would have been done already. It hasn't and it won't. It takes 67 senators, 291 members of the house, and 38 state houses and senates, many requiring 2/3rds of the citizens as well. This is why since the constitution was ratified, only 17 times has it been amended.

[The Guru]

*waves the magic wand* Abbra Cadabbra! Constitution changed!!!

Guru, Roe v. Wade was based on bad law as many pro-choice radical liberals will even admit.

Its not a matter of changing the constitution... its a matter of changing the hearts and minds of people. People typically aren't democrat because they're pro-choice.. they're pro-choice because they're democrat. And thats the biggest problem we face as pro-life 'radicals'....
I wish you all the luck in changing their hearts and minds.
You as well as anyone know that the majority of people are Dems or Reps because of family and have know real idea of what either party platforms really are.
I am a Democrat, but am pro choice because I believe in people's rights and believe that in certain circumstances, abortion might be right for them. Rape for various reasons, health and so on.
I do not agree that abortion should be used as birth control.
How about making an amendment that if an abortion is performed for whatever reason, that a historectomy is mandatory. That would at least make people think about it a lot more than having someone throw a friggin rotten mater at them.
I also think that rapist and child molesters(if male) should be castrated.

I'm definately one you'd despise. No doubt.
I can't believe you would stoop to some of their tactics???

But back to the constitution, if it were so easy to change.. it would have been done already. It hasn't and it won't. It takes 67 senators, 291 members of the house, and 38 state houses and senates, many requiring 2/3rds of the citizens as well. This is why since the constitution was ratified, only 17 times has it been amended.

I know it would be practically impossible to change it.
But murdering doctors ain't the answer.

[ronald_reagan]

I know it would be practically impossible to change it.
But murdering doctors ain't the answer.

LOL, no I wouldn't firebomb a clinic or anything. But I'd picket and protest any day, and have before.

I also agree with on the issue of people being born into a party. I was born into the very conservative wing of the democratic party. My dad was a republican in nearly all of his beliefs, but he'd pull that blue lever EVERY freakin time. He was 'born a republican', but apparently was adopted.

What I was referring to, and sometimes I have problems getting my point across on here... was that these people who are 'born into' a party, typically, later in life adopt nearly every viewpoint of that certain party. I just find it hard to believe that just because we're for higher taxes on the rich, that suddenly we're pacifist, pro-choice, welfare recipients. lol, or just because we're pro-life, we're suddenly pro death penalty, religious nuts, and for a flat tax. No one party can be everything, to everybody.. or IMO, anybody.

[The Guru]

LOL, no I wouldn't firebomb a clinic or anything. But I'd picket and protest any day, and have before.

I also agree with on the issue of people being born into a party. I was born into the very conservative wing of the democratic party. My dad was a republican in nearly all of his beliefs, but he'd pull that blue lever EVERY freakin time. He was 'born a republican', but apparently was adopted.

What I was referring to, and sometimes I have problems getting my point across on here... was that these people who are 'born into' a party, typically, later in life adopt nearly every viewpoint of that certain party. I just find it hard to believe that just because we're for higher taxes on the rich, that suddenly we're pacifist, pro-choice, welfare recipients. lol, or just because we're pro-life, we're suddenly pro death penalty, religious nuts, and for a flat tax. No one party can be everything, to everybody.. or IMO, anybody.

Both sides of my family are hardcore Dems....When I turned 18, I registered Dem.
I mostly vote Democratic but only because I agree with more of their platform than the other.
I agree with a lot of conservative ideas, but just think that they go to far sometimes.
The same for Liberals though.
I have no problem with protests and sign waving, that is fine, just don't go overboard with it!!!LOL
I know a lot of innocent people have been put to death....I also know that a lot of innocent people have been murdered by people that were released when execution wasn't done.
Double edged sword.
I could be a huge fan of dismemberment!!!
If you steal, lose an arm.
if you kill, lose your legs and an arm!!!
If you rape, lose your nuts!

[ronald_reagan]

Both sides of my family are hardcore Dems....When I turned 18, I registered Dem.
I mostly vote Democratic but only because I agree with more of their platform than the other.
I agree with a lot of conservative ideas, but just think that they go to far sometimes.
The same for Liberals though.
I have no problem with protests and sign waving, that is fine, just don't go overboard with it!!!LOL
I know a lot of innocent people have been put to death....I also know that a lot of innocent people have been murdered by people that were released when execution wasn't done.
Double edged sword.
I could be a huge fan of dismemberment!!!
If you steal, lose an arm.
if you kill, lose your legs and an arm!!!
If you rape, lose your nuts!

And you despise radicals.

[The Guru]

And you despise radicals.

That's not being radical.....that's an eye for an eye!!!

[Watchful Eye]

Its unfair to say that as governor, Bush had people executed. The governor of Texas has no power to commute a death sentence, unless the parole board recommends it. If they don't recommend it, the execution can not be stopped by the governor.

Although, bush is obviously a huge supporter of the death penalty, its just a faulty arguement to say that he had much to do with while governor.

I can promise you he's had people executed. He's still executing by means of military presence in Iraq right now. I served my country, graduated from college afterwards, wasn't the best high school student. Even I am smart enough to question the fact that Bin Laden took credit for killing 3,000 innocent Americans, we knew that. What did we do? We sent all of our resources and money to fight Iraq before we even brought Bin Laden to justice. No nuclear threat was EVER found in Iraq. Now the nut wants everyone to go to war with Iran basically because he said so. I pray that the American people aren't stupid enough to fall for that twice.
You want to talk about abortion, sensless killing....look at our men and women in Iraq. The bad thing is I was in the middle east on a tour of duty and I feel this way.

[ronald_reagan]

I can promise you he's had people executed. He's still executing by means of military presence in Iraq right now. I served my country, graduated from college afterwards, wasn't the best high school student. Even I am smart enough to question the fact that Bin Laden took credit for killing 3,000 innocent Americans, we knew that. What did we do? We sent all of our resources and money to fight Iraq before we even brought Bin Laden to justice. No nuclear threat was EVER found in Iraq. Now the nut wants everyone to go to war with Iran basically because he said so. I pray that the American people aren't stupid enough to fall for that twice.
You want to talk about abortion, sensless killing....look at our men and women in Iraq. The bad thing is I was in the middle east on a tour of duty and I feel this way.

Ok.

Still doesn't take away from the post you just quoted me on?

I made it clear, AS governor, Bush never had anyone executed. :thumpsup:

Now, if you want to debate the Iraq war and Iran.. feel free to start a thread and we'll get right on it.

[More Cowbell]

I still hate to hear it called "freedom of choice." That makes it sound as though there are no consequences for choosing to end another life.

For all those who support abortion rights, consider:

Imagine that you heard that in some town in this country, the citizens were killing off all the mentally handicapped people once it was determined they were too large a burden on their families. If you believed this was wrong, wouldn't you try to help these people as best you could?

That's exactly what pro-life supporters are trying to do - protect those who can't protect themselves.

[ronald_reagan]

I still hate to hear it called "freedom of choice." That makes it sound as though there are no consequences for choosing to end another life.

For all those who support abortion rights, consider:

Imagine that you heard that in some town in this country, the citizens were killing off all the mentally handicapped people once it was determined they were too large a burden on their families. If you believed this was wrong, wouldn't you try to help these people as best you could?

That's exactly what pro-life supporters are trying to do - protect those who can't protect themselves.

still not getting answers on why pro-abortionists brag about lowering the number of them, and not vice versa...

[15thRegionCrazy]

I think if the woman's life is in danger then they should have an option. Other than that, there aren't many other reasons I could think of as to why they should have the choice.

[More Cowbell]

I think if the woman's life is in danger then they should have an option. Other than that, there aren't many other reasons I could think of as to why they should have the choice.

Sounds about right... :thumpsup:

[ronald_reagan]

Sounds about right... :thumpsup:

"if" is the key word here.

Ron Paul was an OB/GYN for 19 years and delivered 4000 babies from what I understand.... and not one time did he see it necessary.

[HAIL PIKEVILLE!]

And, of course, in sympathy for the mother, the father, who also dropped his "drawers" before he was ready, is given Ipicac (?) syrup to drink for nine months and injected with gout on his ankles for nine months..... hey, you torture lovers out there might like this plan...

Id have no objection to that LOL!. I dont include the father in my arguments becuase by law they have no say in the matter of whether the child is aborted or not. The men are reduced to nothing but sperm donors in this case. Although they did made just as bad of a choice. They are completely left out of the process of whether THEIR child (and its just as much theirs as it is the mothers) lives or dies. How messed up is that?

[The Guru]

still not getting answers on why pro-abortionists brag about lowering the number of them, and not vice versa...

Being pro choice doesn't mean I am pro abortion. Why not refer to it as pro deciding not to abort??? That happens too when there is a choice made.
Or do you think that there are people out there saying "No.....You must abort"!!!
Do you think pro coice wants there to be more abortions? I don't.
But neither do I want a woman to have to die because giving birth would kill her. Is that what you want?
What if (since you are a pro lifer) you were made to look a woman in the eye and tell her, hey, I wanted to rid the world of abortion so now that it is illegal it is my job to have to tell you that you are 5 weeks pregnant, but you have a condition that will kill you if you go through with this pregnancy...so....you have to die.....oh by the way....the Dr's just told me that your baby has some things wrong with it too, so it probably won't make it either......also....they still have not found the guy that raped you and got you in this mess but they will keep looking....sorry it worked out that you don't have any choices in this matter, but hey....WE WON!!!! Have a nice day!!!"

[ronald_reagan]

Being pro choice doesn't mean I am pro abortion. Why not refer to it as pro deciding not to abort??? That happens too when there is a choice made.
Or do you think that there are people out there saying "No.....You must abort"!!!
Do you think pro coice wants there to be more abortions? I don't.
But neither do I want a woman to have to die because giving birth would kill her. Is that what you want?
What if (since you are a pro lifer) you were made to look a woman in the eye and tell her, hey, I wanted to rid the world of abortion so now that it is illegal it is my job to have to tell you that you are 5 weeks pregnant, but you have a condition that will kill you if you go through with this pregnancy...so....you have to die.....oh by the way....the Dr's just told me that your baby has some things wrong with it too, so it probably won't make it either......also....they still have not found the guy that raped you and got you in this mess but they will keep looking....sorry it worked out that you don't have any choices in this matter, but hey....WE WON!!!! Have a nice day!!!"

My very last post shows that I support it WHEN a womans life is in danger. I'm consistent on this issue. Whats your deal?

I'm pro-choice too. I just happens to always choose life... including the WOMANS when its in danger. The fact is, that whenever a moms life is in danger, the baby is too. So thus, save one. I'll let the doctor make that decision of which is most likely to survive.

Now please, don't restate my views inaccurately once again.

[The Guru]

I still hate to hear it called "freedom of choice." That makes it sound as though there are no consequences for choosing to end another life.

For all those who support abortion rights, consider:

Imagine that you heard that in some town in this country, the citizens were killing off all the mentally handicapped people once it was determined they were too large a burden on their families. If you believed this was wrong, wouldn't you try to help these people as best you could?

That's exactly what pro-life supporters are trying to do - protect those who can't protect themselves.

Tell them to become police officers, or join the army.There are plenty of people already here that need their help. If they are such dang good sumaritans, there are millions that can't help or protect themselves.

[The Guru]

My very last post shows that I support it WHEN a womans life is in danger. I'm consistent on this issue. Whats your deal?

I'm pro-choice too. I just happens to always choose life... including the WOMANS when its in danger. The fact is, that whenever a moms life is in danger, the baby is too. So thus, save one. I'll let the doctor make that decision of which is most likely to survive.

Now please, don't restate my views inaccurately once again.

Nowhere in your last post do you say you support it. You even said you were a "Radical". Sorry but I didn't realize that when you picket, as you say you do, that you wear a sign saying.....An occassional Abortion is OK, if the Dr say so!

[The Guru]

My very last post shows that I support it WHEN a womans life is in danger. I'm consistent on this issue. Whats your deal?

I'm pro-choice too. I just happens to always choose life... including the WOMANS when its in danger. The fact is, that whenever a moms life is in danger, the baby is too. So thus, save one. I'll let the doctor make that decision of which is most likely to survive.

Now please, don't restate my views inaccurately once again.

Where did I do that?
I am sorry if I did.

[More Cowbell]

Tell them to become police officers, or join the army.There are plenty of people already here that need their help. If they are such dang good sumaritans, there are millions that can't help or protect themselves.

You're right, there are millions that can't protect themselves. They're called unborn babies, and we have to stand up for them since all the pro-choicers won't.

Again, I don't understand the pro-choice position of "I think abortion is wrong, but I can't make that choice for someone else." That is akin to saying "I think it's wrong for that guy to murder my neighbor, but it's not my place to say he can't do it." :confused:

Bottom line, if something is wrong, it's wrong. No matter if a lot of people do think it's okay.

[sherman14]

The death sentence is wrong anyway you put it. You are killing someone which is still murder and it should be stopped.

[ronald_reagan]

You're right, there are millions that can't protect themselves. They're called unborn babies, and we have to stand up for them since all the pro-choicers won't.

Again, I don't understand the pro-choice position of "I think abortion is wrong, but I can't make that choice for someone else." That is akin to saying "I think it's wrong for that guy to murder my neighbor, but it's not my place to say he can't do it." :confused:

Bottom line, if something is wrong, it's wrong. No matter if a lot of people do think it's okay.

This is by far, one of the very posts ever posted on this site!irateSho

I'd like to think that I make good points now and then, but this is great!!!!!! :flame:

[thecavemaster]

"I think that smoking is wrong and that the person who smokes is going to die sooner, but I can't make for them the decision not to smoke."

[HAIL PIKEVILLE!]

"I think that smoking is wrong and that the person who smokes is going to die sooner, but I can't make for them the decision not to smoke."

A grown persons choice to smoke or drink or do drugs is that person choice but they are killing THEMSELVES and not someone else when they do it. So youre arguement here is apples and oranges. Or in youre case apples and corn seed( Sorry, I just cant get over that one). LOL!!!!!

[ronald_reagan]

Or in youre case apples and corn seed( Sorry, I just cant get over that one). LOL!!!!!

Apparently he couldn't get over it either.... it was in every single post for 3 days.

[thecavemaster]

Apparently he couldn't get over it either.... it was in every single post for 3 days.

Hey, I resemble that remark....... However, as the seed is to the ear of corn, so is the fetus to the human being. This may be a mystery to you... however, at least one famous writer known in the bible thumping lands used it. However, an analogy, like fish and house guests, stinks after three days...